Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: ninjawarrior1400 on January 07, 2012, 06:22:44 PM

Title: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: ninjawarrior1400 on January 07, 2012, 06:22:44 PM
Have a well maintained 2010 C-14 with 6000 miles on it.  Today .....started it up, shifted to 1st gear, engine immediately died......repeated proceedure from neutral...same results.  Would not let me start the bike from any gear with clutch pulled in!!

Never heard of this happening to anyone....WTF??? Anyone had this problem, and if so why, how to resolve?

Waited 5 minutes repeated proceedure...started up fine......rode for two hours....came home, stopped for 15 minutes...tried to restart...same thing happened...died when shifting to 1st gear.......never heard of this occurring to anyone else.....

Why, what is the cure??

Ninjawarrior
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: ljcorby on January 07, 2012, 06:25:04 PM
Could it be a problem kick stand switch?
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Pokey on January 07, 2012, 06:30:45 PM
^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Excavator on January 07, 2012, 06:33:32 PM
Could it be a problem kick stand switch?

That's what I would check first.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Front Runner on January 07, 2012, 06:34:18 PM
Sounds like the kick stand switch also.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: 556ALPHA on January 07, 2012, 06:55:35 PM
+5  RT's had an issue with this.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Scaffolder on January 07, 2012, 07:14:57 PM
My 2010 C-14 doesn't have an active kickstand switch. I figured it didn't have one. I know my 2008 had it.
Good luck with the first gear. What RPMs are you idling at when shifting in?
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: 556ALPHA on January 07, 2012, 07:17:10 PM
My 2010 C-14 doesn't have an active kickstand switch. I figured it didn't have one. I know my 2008 had it.
Good luck with the first gear. What RPMs are you idling at when shifting in?
So if you put the stand down in 1st gear the engine does not turn off?
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: ljcorby on January 07, 2012, 07:17:52 PM
It absolutely should. 
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: So Cal Joe on January 07, 2012, 07:19:52 PM
Mine has a switch, all of them do, if yours runs when the stand is down there is something wrong with your kick stand switch
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: stevewfl on January 07, 2012, 08:11:41 PM
Check KiPass FOB battery too  ;)
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Ninjawarrior on January 07, 2012, 10:14:40 PM
My kickstand is up, started engine, clutch in, push down for 1st gear....engine immediately dies.  Not all the time.... Sporadic failure.

?????????

Diagnosis riders?

Ninja
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Gsun on January 07, 2012, 10:36:07 PM
Bad kickstand switch. No other reason. Well, maybe no other reason.....
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Conrad on January 08, 2012, 07:32:03 AM
My kickstand is up, started engine, clutch in, push down for 1st gear....engine immediately dies.  Not all the time.... Sporadic failure.

?????????

Diagnosis riders?

Ninja

Get your multimeter out and check that switch.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Z71 on January 08, 2012, 07:51:08 AM
Also, the kickstand switch can be bypassed by using a jumper wire.  That way you know for a fact that this is the problem if the engine does not stall.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: maxtog on January 08, 2012, 08:01:11 AM
Also, the kickstand switch can be bypassed by using a jumper wire.  That way you know for a fact that this is the problem if the engine does not stall.

Yep, that would be the *best* way to test it, if it is intermittent.  Just remember that the jumper is overriding a relatively important safety feature.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Scaffolder on January 08, 2012, 11:07:54 AM
I know for sure my switch doesn't work properly. I hate going to the dealerships. I am going to have to this Spring to get my tire sensors changed. The dealer I used last has no software to register my TPSs. They shouldn't have done the work if they didn't know how.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Pokey on January 08, 2012, 11:53:52 AM
WTF..........the OP has abandoned his own thread?
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Gsun on January 08, 2012, 11:56:20 AM
Maybe he's out testing his kickstand switch.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: VirginiaJim on January 08, 2012, 05:01:58 PM
I hate when that happens...
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Pokey on January 08, 2012, 05:06:41 PM
He hasn't been back on since posting this thread. :o
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: VirginiaJim on January 08, 2012, 05:21:53 PM
Well, he only posted this yesterday, guys.  Give him some slack.  It's the weekend for goodness sake.  If he hasn't come back to us by next weekend then we can get out the pitch forks, tar, and feathers...
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: texrider on January 08, 2012, 06:19:41 PM
What if he's been the victim of a faulty side stand safety switch, and there's nobody around to lift the bike off him?  :o
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: ZG on January 08, 2012, 07:16:08 PM
Well, he only posted this yesterday, guys.  Give him some slack.  It's the weekend for goodness sake.  If he hasn't come back to us by next weekend then we can get out the pitch forks, tar, and feathers...

Hate it when people have a life and keep us waiting... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/wait.gif)
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: lather on January 08, 2012, 07:29:48 PM
He hasn't been back on since posting this thread. :o
What about reply#11? Seems like guy.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Pokey on January 08, 2012, 07:37:39 PM
What about reply#11? Seems like guy.

If him it is under a different profile name, and we had already answered the original question before that.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Conrad on January 09, 2012, 04:36:24 AM
Well, he only posted this yesterday, guys.  Give him some slack.  It's the weekend for goodness sake.  If he hasn't come back to us by next weekend then we can get out the pitch forks, tar, and feathers...

Can I at least get the tar warmed up and line the chickens up for plucking?
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: VirginiaJim on January 09, 2012, 05:04:46 AM
What about reply#11? Seems like guy.

'Seems like guy.'  What form of English is that?  Caveman?  We're familiar with NinjaWarrior1400 of course, he's been around for quite a bit.  Ninjawarrior...not so much, but was created a day before ninjawarrior1400...same ip.  So the verdict is that they are the same guy.  Possibly he forgot his password and is using this as a backup id.  At any rate, mystery solved there.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: VirginiaJim on January 09, 2012, 05:05:10 AM
Can I at least get the tar warmed up and line the chickens up for plucking?

Sure...
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: lather on January 09, 2012, 07:54:59 AM
'Seems like guy.'  What form of English is that?  Caveman?  We're familiar with NinjaWarrior1400 of course, he's been around for quite a bit.  Ninjawarrior...not so much, but was created a day before ninjawarrior1400...same ip.  So the verdict is that they are the same guy.  Possibly he forgot his password and is using this as a backup id.  At any rate, mystery solved there.
Sorry for the typo/mouse error. I originally typed "seems like the same user".  Was trying to change user to guy and evidently did not notice I also deleted "the same".  Sloppy of me.  But I agree the two posts are from the same person.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Pokey on January 09, 2012, 09:21:49 AM
So the same question has now been asked twice by the same person, and by 2 different profiles by the same person? :o
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: lather on January 09, 2012, 09:47:48 AM
So the same question has now been asked twice by the same person, and by 2 different profiles by the same person? :o
What's so unusual about that?  ;)
Actually the way I read it/speculate, he posted once, got an answer about side stand switch but did not thoroughly read it and assumed we meant he forgot to put the stand up before shifting into 1st. He then responded to say the stand WAS up, failing to realize we meant the switch was malfunctioning (as opposed to the rider malfunctioning). Of course the reason he misinterpreted the (probably correct) answers is that he has KeyPass phobia and is unable to focus on any non KeyPass related answers. ;)
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: VirginiaJim on January 09, 2012, 10:12:31 AM
All forgvn..
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Jeremy Mitchell on January 09, 2012, 10:14:01 AM
Multiple personalities?  I guess each of them need the explanation.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: ninjawarrior1400 on January 09, 2012, 11:00:02 AM
Ok guys am glad you missed me...was out riding all day in glorious weather around Daytona Beach up US A1A here in Florida in shirt sleeve weather.....had NO issues with it yesterday at all....

Several times on Saturday with backing out of the garage was the first failure.....stand is up.......start the engine in neutral, clutch in shift to first gear..engine immediately dies.  I let it sit for 5 minutes went back to it, and it started up properly with no other issues...it occurred 4 different times on Saturday....I still took it to ride with one failure in 120 mile trip.

Put new KIPASS battery in about two weeks ago before these non-starts began so that is not an issue.

It does not seem to occur when the bike has warmed up and being ridden....just when cold out of the garage.  Having to push it up hill inside the garage was a scary thought!

Have had no problems with this bike whatsoever and with only 6000 miles on the clock it has been a jem of a machine...garaged, covered, rarely caught in the rain.

But the kickstand is always up ready to ride, shift into gear and immediately shuts down.

And yes I am the same guy Ninjawarrior..had computer problems with password etc so had to reinvent myself with another name..to get back here...but it is nice to be missed..just had to take it out all day yesterday and push it...thousands of bikes were all over central Florida riding enjoying our great 70degree weather....wish all you guys were here....

So if I take it to the dealer for a new switch and it fails to fail when they test it, now do they justify installing a new switch under warranty???????

Ninja
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: VirginiaJim on January 09, 2012, 11:05:32 AM
See..I told you he would be back. 

I rather doubt a dealer will replace a switch if they don't see it failing.  May be less stressful to replace it yourself and have done with it...assuming that's the problem.

Put away the pitchforks, chickens, and tar....
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Conrad on January 09, 2012, 11:17:37 AM
Damn, the tar just got up to the right temp.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Pokey on January 09, 2012, 12:30:28 PM
Damn, the tar just got up to the right temp.

And I just ruined 3 perfectly good pillows for the feathers!!!!! Just bypass the switch, it is just another stupid safety feature anyways. My dirtbike has both the clutch and sidestand switches ripped out, will do the same with the C14 if it ever starts to act up.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Tactical_Mik on January 09, 2012, 01:40:22 PM
part number  27010 at about 78 bucks wouldn't be too pricey to just replace if that is your problem and the dealer doesn't replace it. 

part:
http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/687/SKU/407618 (http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/687/SKU/407618)
 

fiche
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Gear_Change_Mechanism/MakeID/3/Make/Kawasaki/YearID/51/Year/2010/ModelID/8479/Model/Concours_14_ABS_(ZG1400-CAF)/GroupID/409529/Group/Ignition_Switch_Locks_Reflectors (http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Gear_Change_Mechanism/MakeID/3/Make/Kawasaki/YearID/51/Year/2010/ModelID/8479/Model/Concours_14_ABS_(ZG1400-CAF)/GroupID/409529/Group/Ignition_Switch_Locks_Reflectors)
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Conrad on January 09, 2012, 01:43:31 PM
part number  27010 at about 78 bucks wouldn't be too pricey to just replace if that is your problem and the dealer doesn't replace it. 

part:
http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/687/SKU/407618 (http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/687/SKU/407618)
 

fiche
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Gear_Change_Mechanism/MakeID/3/Make/Kawasaki/YearID/51/Year/2010/ModelID/8479/Model/Concours_14_ABS_(ZG1400-CAF)/GroupID/409529/Group/Ignition_Switch_Locks_Reflectors (http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Gear_Change_Mechanism/MakeID/3/Make/Kawasaki/YearID/51/Year/2010/ModelID/8479/Model/Concours_14_ABS_(ZG1400-CAF)/GroupID/409529/Group/Ignition_Switch_Locks_Reflectors)

We've been trying to get him to test the switch, to no avail.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: jjnorc on January 09, 2012, 02:26:09 PM
Do a continuity test on the switch when cold & when hot.
or
Buypass it and see if the problem goes away.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Conrad on January 09, 2012, 02:34:40 PM
Do a continuity test on the switch when cold & when hot.
or
Buypass it and see if the problem goes away.

Almost everyone has told him the same thing, he refuses to test the switch for some reason.  ::)
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: jjnorc on January 09, 2012, 02:42:15 PM
Almost everyone has told him the same thing, he refuses to test the switch for some reason.  ::)


I know. I just haven't posted in a while :)
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Kirby on January 09, 2012, 08:30:06 PM
So? Same guy, different name.... what's your point?

Kirby


If him it is under a different profile name, and we had already answered the original question before that.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: B.D.F. on January 09, 2012, 08:33:45 PM
Ah yes, the BMW method- 'buypass'.... where you bring your bike and a bucket full of money to an authorized dealer and they take their very best guess as to what the problem is.

Sorry, couldn't resist.  ;D

Brian




<snip>

Buypass it and see if the problem goes away.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: B.D.F. on January 09, 2012, 08:36:45 PM
Can you expand on that a bit- what is a "non- KiPass" problem? I have heard that all problems are KiPass related, either now or sometime in the future. For example: I was squeezing my fob as hard as I could and the bike still would not start. Then I hit the starter button and it did start but I should not have to do that- if the system worked properly it would have anticipated my desire for it to be running already.

Brian


<snip>

 Of course the reason he misinterpreted the (probably correct) answers is that he has KeyPass phobia and is unable to focus on any non KeyPass related answers. ;)
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Son of Pappy on January 09, 2012, 08:43:39 PM
Can you expand on that a bit- what is a "non- KiPass" problem? I have heard that all problems are KiPass related, either now or sometime in the future. For example: I was squeezing my fob as hard as I could and the bike still would not start. Then I hit the starter button and it did start but I should not have to do that- if the system worked properly it would have anticipated my desire for it to be running already.

Brian
Did you get a snuggy for Christmas?
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: B.D.F. on January 09, 2012, 08:51:37 PM
How did you know? Funny thing is that it won't start though and has left me cold, tired and hungry.  ;)

Brian


Did you get a snuggy for Christmas?
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: ZG on January 09, 2012, 08:53:05 PM
So? Same guy, different name.... what's your point?

Kirby

 :rotflmao:
 
Oh Kirby, you crack me up little bro...  ;D
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: lather on January 09, 2012, 10:48:13 PM
Can you expand on that a bit- what is a "non- KiPass" problem? I have heard that all problems are KiPass related, either now or sometime in the future. For example: I was squeezing my fob as hard as I could and the bike still would not start. Then I hit the starter button and it did start but I should not have to do that- if the system worked properly it would have anticipated my desire for it to be running already.

Brian
Certainly I could expand but no need as the universe is already expanding with no help from me, . But according to the great Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a non-KiPass problem can manifest in various forms such as a Honda or any motorcycle wherein the ignition process is initiated by soley mechanical means as well as non-KiPass linked components attached to KiPass enabled units.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Huero on January 14, 2012, 12:27:00 PM
I had a similiar problem on my zx-12 a few years ago. The bike would start and run but as soon as i let out the clutch out it would die. It ended up being the "clutch saftey switch." Apparently its tied to the sidestand switch. Anyway, it the little, spring loaded switch in the clutch perch. I diagnosed it by taking the switch out and cleaning it, reinstalling and problem solved.

Might check this switch.

Huero
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: ninjawarrior1400 on January 18, 2012, 05:54:15 PM
Ok I think I finally solved the problem...I have not been getting the kickstand in the full up position, maybe a weak spring and did not notice that...so the bike would not let me go to first gear unless it is fully up......accidentally caught it Sunday while backing out of the driveway it did it again....but when I looked down..saw the sand was an inch from full up position..when putting it where it was supposed to be....viola..no more problems..

Ninja
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: VirginiaJim on January 18, 2012, 05:56:30 PM
I had the opposite happen to me early on in that I put the kickstand down and it wasn't full down and nearly fell over.  From then on, I made sure it was down properly.  Thanks for letting us know the outcome.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: jjsC6 on January 18, 2012, 08:02:12 PM
Ok I think I finally solved the problem...I have not been getting the kickstand in the full up position, maybe a weak spring and did not notice that...so the bike would not let me go to first gear unless it is fully up......accidentally caught it Sunday while backing out of the driveway it did it again....but when I looked down..saw the sand was an inch from full up position..when putting it where it was supposed to be....viola..no more problems..

Ninja

You might want to look to see if there is an adjustment to the switch.  That puppy will probably die on you going down the road if it sags just a bit while riding.
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Son of Pappy on January 18, 2012, 08:49:08 PM
I just want to echo what Jim said, I was starting to wonder if this was gonna become another "I left the dealer with no oil" thread ;)
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: Pokey on January 18, 2012, 09:47:26 PM
And.......we were right!!!!!!!! 8)
Title: Re: Shift to 1st gear, engine dies time and again...WTF??????
Post by: PH14 on January 18, 2012, 09:48:33 PM
Ok I think I finally solved the problem...I have not been getting the kickstand in the full up position, maybe a weak spring and did not notice that...so the bike would not let me go to first gear unless it is fully up......accidentally caught it Sunday while backing out of the driveway it did it again....but when I looked down..saw the sand was an inch from full up position..when putting it where it was supposed to be....viola..no more problems..

Ninja

It's not a weak spring, try a little lube. I have had to lubricate mine.