Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: speed545 on December 24, 2011, 01:54:47 PM
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Hi,
Have any clue of what might happened? It s on a Kia Rio (daughter s car). Car stop running on the highway. Had it tow home and start looking then i found that
(http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l440/speed545/th_untitled.png)
Cylinder #4 only but i dont have a clue. Engine has 63K on it and the plug didnt melt but was hit by piston i guess.
I ll get her another car and fix this one for sale but i m still clueless about what might cause that
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look likes a gone timing belt :-\
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look likes a gone timing belt :-\
Even an interference engine shouldn't hit the spark plug. To hit a plug, the piston would have to come off the connecting rod, or the rod off the crankshaft.
Maybe some serious ignition timing issue, causing a LOT of detonation (ping) that wasn't heard? (Or was ignored)
Or just a faulty insulator that cracked and took this long to disintegrate?
A bigger pic would be nice.
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I'm with Jon. Faulty plug, rather than engine mech.
How many miles since the last set/tune up?
My advice is , using the handy mans secret weapon, duct tape, secure a piece of smaller tube to the end of the shop-vac so-as to make an adapter to vac the inside of the cylinder.
Vac thoroughly then check the compression both dry and wet. I'm guessing you are gonna have some scoring on the walls and so the wet test will be significantly higher.
If true, I'd just start looking for an engine to swap...
'nother thought occurs, (full disclosure) I don't actually know $hit about Kia's, gas engines, or much else for that matter. But on my Diesel Dubs I'd be thinking about checking on that injector too.
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new pic
looks like the plug was hit. All 3 others are fine. No rotation from the engine when i turn the ignition. Sound like an engine reving with no plugs when i attempt to start.
(http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l440/speed545/IMG-20111225-00064.jpg)
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Sounds like no compression at all. Does that engine use a timing belt as opposed to chain? Check the belt and if it broke that's your answer, pistons hit the valves, a chunk of metal hit the plug. If that's the case, you're done with that engine. Good luck.
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What Nosmo said without a doubt.
Tom Taylor COG#7173
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What Nosmo said without a doubt.
Tom Taylor COG#7173
Ditto that, unfortunately. :'(
.
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Ditto on the t-belt, the only thing that would likely cause that kind of damage would be if a valve was whacked pretty good and smashed into the plug. I don't know what the value of the car is but if the valves were hit you are most likely looking at a minimum of a remanufactured cylinder head, plugs, maybe a piston to repair. If you can repair without the piston it may be worth it, if you can't you'd be better putting a new engine in the car and it isn't likely worth that much.
Dave
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+1 on the Timing Belt. It might not have broken even, on the KIA it actually Rots, and strips off teeth. Unfortunately it results in broken valves, instead of bent valves. The RIO motor is Junk, from KIA. All of the belts suffer from Rotting, I've seen them fail/ strip teeth with less then 30K miles. last one I did needed a New Head, available from KIA, and not only a new set of pistons but a re-bore, as the bore was gouged. Sadly this is probably the main reason the RIO has no resale value. Depending on year, as they made some different heads for the 1.5, you can get a new one loaded with valves for less than $500 shipped. T-belt kits are well under $100. See rockauto.com they have all they stuff but the head. I got it from a Seattle Dealer, on-line.
Good luck, might not be worth fixing unless you have the knowledge and tools.
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If you bought it new, might still be under Kia's 100K warranty?
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I've had two Kias. The engines and transmissions could not be faulted but the surrounding bodywork was crap. Would not buy another one. That plug looks like it was hit and the only way that could happen is timing belt. Could have skipped a tooth or it's broken. I've never seen a plug that looked like that.
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Have experience with timing belts on Kia Sportages. Non interference engines (except for the SOHC '95), so no dammage. I'm told these are Mazda 2.0 L engines. So far so good, over 147kmi on my daughters car and running well. I agree with all who have said this is a timing belt issue, the lock for me was when you said it sounded like no compression when turning it over. That's exactly how I would describe the sound of an engine with a broken/stripped timing belt. If the Rio is an interference enging (it obviously is, by the pics and description), your options have already been listed. Warranty; new head and machine the block/replace pistons as necessary; new engine(this may be GREATLY preferable to the work involved in fixing what you have); new car.
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In looking around using Google on the Rio and timing belt this is not a 'rare' problem. Recommendation is to change belt at 60k as they've had issues. I think KIA has a 10 year / 100k engine warranty but if the recommendation is to change the belt at 60k then you might have a time getting the engine covered assuming the engine is toasted. You'll have to look at your owner's manual for the recommendation for your year of RIO. Some belts are seemingly lasting forever and others are going before the 60k recommendation....I'm talking KIA belts, not after market. I would go after market after reading some of the stuff out there on the RIO.
You'll have to open her up to see what else has been damaged. May not be a pretty sight based on the plug picture.
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Dang, I guess those old Volvo B23 engines are hand grenades as Volvo scheduled timing belt changes every 40k miles!
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I worked at a volvo dealer a few years. Those B21/B23 engines were amazing. After seing the timing belt schedule for the Volvo, I started changing the timing belts in anything I had before 50,000 miles. I had a chevette then, what a pathetic contrast. I figured replacing a belt was cheap insurance. It is a shame about the KIA eating up an engine due to a timing belt issue.
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My wife has a 2007 Kia Rio. Bought it new in 2007 and not one problem with the car. Found a lot of good advice in this forum: http://www.kia-forums.com/forumindex.php (http://www.kia-forums.com/forumindex.php)
Lots of discussion about timing belts, seems to be a very common problem. Wifes' car has 59,000 kms but timing belt isn't due to be changed until 97,000 kms - it'll be sold before then !!!
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Didnt have the time to open the motor yet. One thing is sure, we ll get a another car and probably be new. Looking at the Honda Civic or the Ford Fiesta. Already have the quote for the civic and waiting for someone i know at ford to provide some interesting deal on the Fiesta.
As far as the Kia is concern, 2 choices
1- i ll keep it, replace the engine and sell the car after
2- sell it right now for parts. Already have an offer of 300$ for it including pick up
I m just curious to see the damage on the engine :-\
Thx for all the inputs guys
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From what I’ve read your engine is an interference motor. This means if the timing belt breaks, the pistons will hit the valves and bend them. I have seen interference motors with little piston damage but the head was shot. Without opening the engine up I can’t be certain what hit the plug. But what do know? When I worked in the industry, 428 Shelby’s were new. Now Changing spark plugs on those or any big block Mustang was no fun.
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If you are getting quotes on new then have a look at a Mazda 3.
Since you are a good Canuck you should check out what Bob at www.dealfinder.org (http://www.dealfinder.org) can do for you. He has gotten me better prices on the last three cars we've bought and I have no problems going head to head with salesman. Tell him the guy who sent him books on welding said to check him out.
Be sure ot watch those dealer add ons like nitrogen in the tires and paint/interior protectors.....excellent money makers for the dealer.
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I had a 2002 Kia Spectra that I bought new. Originally, I was told it was a non-interference motor. I found out last spring that it was not when the timing belt broke. It had 189k miles on it already and ran like a champ (good car in the snow too). It had been almost a maintenance-free car. I pulled the head to look at the valves. Luckily none broke, but all of the exhaust valves were bent pretty badly. Only one intake valve was bent also. I didn't like the idea of getting a used "guaranteed" head shipped for fear of the shipper bending a valve. I orderd the complete top-end gasket set to include new valve stem seals. I also ordered a set of exhaust valves and the one intake. Used a little lapping compound on the new valves by hand (no drill) and installed them (I'm experienced and have done this before). Flipped the head upside-down to check for air bubbles with brakeclean and an air hose blown thru the ports. I had to lap two just a little more until just a super fine mist passed at about 80 lbs of pressure. It took probably two different saturdays to do this. I sold the car about 2 months ago with 202k for $3,000 (the Northern VA car market is hot) on it still running great.
My point, yours is low mileage and is probably worth fixing to use or sell if you have the time. A used motor would be easier if the price is right, but all I could find locally were $1,200 motors at the time. I think I spent $250 on all the parts including hoses and belts.
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I would speculate that the timing belt broke, piston hit valves, a valve head broke off and was hammered between the piston and the head.
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Yep, no worries.