Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Spanky on November 05, 2011, 08:38:07 PM
-
I was riding today with two other c-14's and my buddy Cablebandit told me that my bike was blowing smoke out of the exhaust every time I upshifted. The motor still runs strong - just blowing some smoke. I have the full system from fuel moto installed, the map Jamie loaded when he shipped the pc, no flies. Any idea what could cause this? JamminJerry said it may be loose or tight valves? I hope it is something simple like that. I have just over 30k miles on her so she is due for service, but I would like some input from the mechanical genius's on this site so I can ask the correct questions when I talk to the mechanic. Has anyone else had this happen? If so, what was the cause?
Thanks in advance for any input.
-
what color smoke. black would indicate running rich, gray/blue would indicate oil.
-
Grey/blue and was told it smells like oil.
-
Not good.
-
The cause could be worn valve stem seals or excess piston ring clearance.
-
FNG to the forum, but not to bikes/ engines.
Start first with a compression test, followed by a leak down test. That will give you a very good indication of your engine condition. Worn oil rings or valve stem seals/ guides won't show on either test, but you will be better informed on overall condition. You may find low compression, then with the leak down test, where it is going. Then you can decide/ save $ for the work. ;)
-
For what it's worth: When I bought my 99 VFR it had 11,000 miles on it and at first my riding buddies would tell me the exact same thing, it would blow a puff of blue/white smoke on upshifts. Sometime later it quit and now, 125,000 miles later it still runs as strong as ever and uses no oil at all between 6000 mile changes.
-
For what it's worth: When I bought my 99 VFR it had 11,000 miles on it and at first my riding buddies would tell me the exact same thing, it would blow a puff of blue/white smoke on upshifts. Sometime later it quit and now, 125,000 miles later it still runs as strong as ever and uses no oil at all between 6000 mile changes.
Good to hear! I am calling to schedule service tomorrow. Hopefully it is something that can be fixed easily, if not, thank goodness for the warranty! I don't think it is anything too bad, it pulls very strong and does not make any wierd noises, but I will let a pro check it out.
Thanks again, I appreciate the input.
-
You would probably have 1 spark plug with residue on it, more carbon deposit from the oil.
Could be a Valve stem seal that got damaged when installed, or an Oil ring Expander that has the ends over-lapped, or the ends that butt together, one broken. Or just the rings gaps are lined up, instead of staggered on the oil ring.
Just possibilities. Any sign of oil in the Air Cleaner housing?
-
I didn't check the air cleaner housing. I cleaned my air filter about 3k miles ago and I didn't see anything, but at that time I was not looking for oil either. Time for a real mechanic to service it anyway, so we will see what they come up with.
Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.
-
It is probably nothing important and just shedding some oil that has collected in the head. Changing the brand / weight of oil used might stop the engine from doing that.
Usually, smoke that appears when the throttle is closed, and a high- vacuum condition is created, is the result of loose valve guides / seals and oil is getting sucked into the intake. Bad ring seal on the pistons usually results in producing smoke when hard on the throttle but not when the engine is under little or no load (such as when you close the throttle to shift). Unfortunately neither a compression test nor a leak down test will detect loose valve guides because both tests are done when the valves are closed.
As someone already said, check the spark plugs for any signs of fouling. If they, or one, have excessive carbon build- up, it might be time to check the valve(s) stem(s) for proper clearance and the valve seal(s). Another sign of loose and leaking valve stems is wet oil accumulated in the exhaust ports or very early in the exhaust system but that only works if the bike has been ridden relatively lightly so as not to heat that oil up enough to dry out and cook off. Valve stem clearance is a manual check, done by trying to rock the valve in the valve guide and watching the movement with a dial indicator. Any of that would be covered under warranty if the bike is still under warranty, and perhaps even if it is not- valve guides should absolutely not fail in 30K miles.
Again it is probably nothing though and unless there are other symptoms or excessive oil consumption, and the engine runs correctly and strong at all RPM’s, I would probably ignore it once the bike has been through major maintenance and everything looks fine.
Brian
I was riding today with two other c-14's and my buddy Cablebandit told me that my bike was blowing smoke out of the exhaust every time I upshifted. The motor still runs strong - just blowing some smoke. I have the full system from fuel moto installed, the map Jamie loaded when he shipped the pc, no flies. Any idea what could cause this? JamminJerry said it may be loose or tight valves? I hope it is something simple like that. I have just over 30k miles on her so she is due for service, but I would like some input from the mechanical genius's on this site so I can ask the correct questions when I talk to the mechanic. Has anyone else had this happen? If so, what was the cause?
Thanks in advance for any input.
-
Thanks for the information Brian! I am going to have the valves adjusted and everything else that goes with the 30K service so new plugs will be installed and I will make sure the mechanic checks the valve stem and valve seals. The bike is still under warranty and I purchased the extended warranty from the great deal I believe Man of Blues set up for us with his dealer in Virgina, so I am covered for several more years ;).
Thanks for your help.
David
-
So, Spank.... How did you make out with your service? Any smoke seen on Sunday?
JJ
-
The only smoke I saw was when he hammered it on a straightaway. No shifting smoke at all now.
-
I was riding today with two other c-14's and my buddy Cablebandit told me that my bike was blowing smoke out of the exhaust every time I upshifted. The motor still runs strong - just blowing some smoke. I have the full system from fuel moto installed, the map Jamie loaded when he shipped the pc, no flies. Any idea what could cause this? JamminJerry said it may be loose or tight valves? I hope it is something simple like that. I have just over 30k miles on her so she is due for service, but I would like some input from the mechanical genius's on this site so I can ask the correct questions when I talk to the mechanic. Has anyone else had this happen? If so, what was the cause?
Thanks in advance for any input.
Let the mechanic know what he is looking for and ask him to let you see the findings such as plugs, compression test, etc. It would be nice to share the results for the benefit of all.
-
I'm new here but, I'm surpised no one said it had to be Kipass ;)
That seems to be the common theory on everything.
-
Just curious, wouldn't unauthorized modifications you have done to the bike void your warranty if Kawasaki finds out:? Every time you modify something under warranty, be prepared to give up your warranty coverage.
-
Just curious, wouldn't unauthorized modifications you have done to the bike void your warranty if Kawasaki finds out:? Every time you modify something under warranty, be prepared to give up your warranty coverage.
I can hear it now.......the non-stock fuel system provided excess fuel flow into the cylinder which washed the expected oil lubrication from the cylinders and caused the piston rings to wear prematurely. :( .....or something to that effect.
-
Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act...learn it, love it.
His exhaust valves were out. Now they're not. Problem solved. ;D
-
His exahust valves were 'out'? Like out of the engine, sitting on a bench and letting oil leak down through the valve guides? ???
Could you expand on that a bit? I am not following how exhaust valves might be 'out' and cause a high vacuum oil loss?
Brian
Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act...learn it, love it.
His exhaust valves were out. Now they're not. Problem solved. ;D
-
Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act...learn it, love it.
His exhaust valves were out. Now they're not. Problem solved. ;D
Pretty good article from Sportrider..... http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_0404_magnuson_moss_warranty_act/viewall.html (http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_0404_magnuson_moss_warranty_act/viewall.html)
-
Pretty good article from Sportrider..... http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_0404_magnuson_moss_warranty_act/viewall.html (http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_0404_magnuson_moss_warranty_act/viewall.html)
Nice link, thanks. It does a good job of explaining a complicated piece of legislation that has been around for some time and yet is so misunderstood.
-
Got the pretty back last weekend from the mechanic. The valves needed adjusted and that took care of it. Adam checked the valve guides and all the other mechanic things you may check given the bike was smoking when I up-shifted. All it needed was the valves put back in spec. Runs great now and no smoke when I shift. The throttle body sync seems to have returned her to top form. Acceleration is smooth and she pulls very nice. Thanks again for the replies, I am glad it just needed a valve adjustment.
-
Nice link, thanks. It does a good job of explaining a complicated piece of legislation that has been around for some time and yet is so misunderstood.
Good stuff....used it when my first new bike was in the shop for over a month with under 1000 miles. Sued and was given a new bike. The whole process took 9 long months and a three ring binder of notes that I took and presented at discovery. The case settled. I would have rather had a proper running bike but.....
-
That is really strange- I cannot think of any way that the incorrect valve lash could cause an oil leak into the combustion chamber. Further curiosity, how did someone check the valve guides without pulling the head?
Glad it worked out for you and all, just that that is an unusual explanation and fix.
Brian
Got the pretty back last weekend from the mechanic. The valves needed adjusted and that took care of it. Adam checked the valve guides and all the other mechanic things you may check given the bike was smoking when I up-shifted. All it needed was the valves put back in spec. Runs great now and no smoke when I shift. The throttle body sync seems to have returned her to top form. Acceleration is smooth and she pulls very nice. Thanks again for the replies, I am glad it just needed a valve adjustment.
-
Got me, too, Brian. I've never heard of that causing a smoking condition...cigars yes, valves no. But what the hay...
-
Then he probably didn't check the valve guides - I may have misunderstood what I was told. I don't even pretend to be a mechanic. The bike smoked when I up-shifted before the service, now it doesn't. Good enough for me.
-
Yep, if it works for you it is hard to fault. Again, glad to hear you are a happy customer.
Brian
Then he probably didn't check the valve guides - I may have misunderstood what I was told. I don't even pretend to be a mechanic. The bike smoked when I up-shifted before the service, now it doesn't. Good enough for me.
-
Thanks for your help with this Brian. I wanted to know what to ask the mechanic when I took the bike in. I don't understand what would cause this, so I am not the best source of what the mechanic did to fix it. As far as I understand, he adjusted 3 intake and 5 exhaust valves, and checked maybe the valve seats? - if the guides required the head to be removed. I am not sure, but I am confident Adam did a nice job on the maintenance and the bike runs very good. Would it be possible for the oil to get into the exhaust if the valve stayed open too long before it shut entirely? Not sure what else it could have been.
-
How much did they charge ya?