Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: redbarber on November 03, 2011, 07:57:23 PM
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I don't want to run another wire to the battery. Now that I am no longer driving the halogen headlights, I should have plenty of power to run to the hot side of my ballasts. But where do I connect? It has to be before the low/high beam switch, right? Anyone got an easy place to tie in?
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Have you already bought your HID kit? The kit I bought is plug and play and actually has a connector that plugs into one of the OEM headlight connectors.
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Please share....what kit did you purhcase and from where?
Have you already bought your HID kit? The kit I bought is plug and play and actually has a connector that plugs into one of the OEM headlight connectors.
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Have you already bought your HID kit? The kit I bought is plug and play and actually has a connector that plugs into one of the OEM headlight connectors.
My kit is a VVME car kit. It has a connector to plug into one of the headlight connectors, however that connection is only used to trigger the high/low beam relay. Power for the ballasts is through a separate heavy red wire with an in-line 20 amp fuse.
I don't think power for the ballasts could be reliably taken from the headlight connection, because there would be a power interruption every time you switched from high to low beam. You would need to tap in before the relay that drives the high/low beam switching. That's the point I'm hoping to locate.
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My kit is a VVME car kit. It has a connector to plug into one of the headlight connectors, however that connection is only used to trigger the high/low beam relay. Power for the ballasts is through a separate heavy red wire with an in-line 20 amp fuse.
I don't think power for the ballasts could be reliably taken from the headlight connection, because there would be a power interruption every time you switched from high to low beam. You would need to tap in before the relay that drives the high/low beam switching. That's the point I'm hoping to locate.
You've really already answered your own question here, for the best performance of the light and to place the least amount of load "through" your bikes wiring harness which if like near all bikes is anemic in size run your load straight off the battery or power strip if you have one installed. The circuit your looking to tap into likely is sized for a 6 amp load.
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My kit is a VVME car kit. It has a connector to plug into one of the headlight connectors, however that connection is only used to trigger the high/low beam relay. Power for the ballasts is through a separate heavy red wire with an in-line 20 amp fuse.
I don't think power for the ballasts could be reliably taken from the headlight connection, because there would be a power interruption every time you switched from high to low beam. You would need to tap in before the relay that drives the high/low beam switching. That's the point I'm hoping to locate.
We had a group buy here before the old forum crash. A & R motorsports, maybe the info is listed in one of the stickies.
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My kit is a VVME car kit. It has a connector to plug into one of the headlight connectors, however that connection is only used to trigger the high/low beam relay. Power for the ballasts is through a separate heavy red wire with an in-line 20 amp fuse.
I don't think power for the ballasts could be reliably taken from the headlight connection, because there would be a power interruption every time you switched from high to low beam. You would need to tap in before the relay that drives the high/low beam switching. That's the point I'm hoping to locate.
Now that I think about it I believe the A&R kit works the same way. I don't think you can safely avoid a direct connection to the battery. The accessory circuit would be convenient but is only rated for 10 amps, I beleive. Maybe the fan circuit would be suitable.
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You've really already answered your own question here, for the best performance of the light and to place the least amount of load "through" your bikes wiring harness which if like near all bikes is anemic in size run your load straight off the battery or power strip if you have one installed. The circuit your looking to tap into likely is sized for a 6 amp load.
My HID's are rated to pull no more than 10A at startup and 3.2A when running. Multiply that by two, and the startup current for both lamps would be 20A max, and the running load would be under 7A. (There is also a small current to control the solonoids that switch low and high beam, but the total system load during operation should come in under 8A.)
The stock headlight wiring is designed to power two 55/60 watt halogen bulbs. At 5A each, that means that the stock headlight wiring is "sized" for at least a 10A constant load. (Not sure where you'd get 6A.)
While I agree that the 20A initial surge is greater than the standard load, I think the short duration would probably not be a problem, although I might have to increase the stock fuse to a 20 or 25A. I have considered implementing a delay in startup, so that only one ballast would be surging at a time. That would limit my total load to 14A peak.
My wiring additions are not very sophisticated. I ran a 15A wire to a terminal block to run my driving lights, and a 20A wire to the terminal block to run my horns, LEDs, GPS, etc. I could use the 20A circuit, since I would not be blowing the horns at the same time I am powering on the HIDs. In fact, if I don't come up with another solution, that's what I'm going to do. Running another wire to my battery is my last resort option. It's getting crowded down there.
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Sorry not a C14 driver; did not realize that the stock lights burned two 55/60 bulbs at a time. Thought it was one eye on or the other. The 6 amp comes from the fact that Big K only used 6 amp relays in the J-Box of the C10; just big enough and no mo. No matter what path you take just be cautious as mucking around in the wiring harness of these new fangled machines as they can get easily pissed off at you for it.
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I believe everything you said is correct and you should be able to pull power directly from the three connector outlets that normally go to the headlight bulbs (the original H4's). As far as power dropping out when you switch from low to high beam, I do not think that is correct; there is an overlap where both filaments are on before one shuts off to prevent exactly that from happening. So if you tap power from both the low beam and the high beam contacts, there should always be power available no matter what you do with the low / high beam switch or the flash- to- pass button- but check this to make sure before you wire everything up.
You will need at least one more male plug that fits the stock headlight bulb socket, and you will have to re-wire the harness that powers your HIDs. You will also need at least one diode on the low beam side so that current is not back- fed into the relay that controls the high beam side of the HIDs. With a little thought, some soldering and shrink tubing I think you could make a nice, neat job of it and leave the bike 100% stock as far as the headlight wiring goes. The only downside that I can think of is that if the low beam circuit fuse opened you might not notice it with your HIDs wired as above. Which could be unpleasant should the high beam fuse fail at a later time and leave you with no headlights.
One other option is to run the positive power lead from the HIDs back to your power block setup and just attach the ground to a forward screw on the frame. This is what I did with mine and they have performed correctly for years now. It saves 1/2 of the wiring for the new HIDs and again leaves the bike's headlight wiring 100% stock.
Brian
My HID's are rated to pull no more than 10A at startup and 3.2A when running. Multiply that by two, and the startup current for both lamps would be 20A max, and the running load would be under 7A. (There is also a small current to control the solonoids that switch low and high beam, but the total system load during operation should come in under 8A.)
The stock headlight wiring is designed to power two 55/60 watt halogen bulbs. At 5A each, that means that the stock headlight wiring is "sized" for at least a 10A constant load. (Not sure where you'd get 6A.)
While I agree that the 20A initial surge is greater than the standard load, I think the short duration would probably not be a problem, although I might have to increase the stock fuse to a 20 or 25A. I have considered implementing a delay in startup, so that only one ballast would be surging at a time. That would limit my total load to 14A peak.
My wiring additions are not very sophisticated. I ran a 15A wire to a terminal block to run my driving lights, and a 20A wire to the terminal block to run my horns, LEDs, GPS, etc. I could use the 20A circuit, since I would not be blowing the horns at the same time I am powering on the HIDs. In fact, if I don't come up with another solution, that's what I'm going to do. Running another wire to my battery is my last resort option. It's getting crowded down there.
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It's done. I pulled my +12 from the 20A line I ran for my horn relay. So long as I don't blow my horn at exactly the same time as the lights are starting up, I'll have plenty of power. Sorry I did not have my camera (wife took it with her), so I did not get any pics. I used Scotch Dual-Lock velcro to mount the ballasts against the sides of the fairing.
First test ride, very bright! That pattern is thinner than my stock lights, but the overall visibility is great! Even better, my 1800 lumen LED driving lights arrived just as I was buttening up the plastics. Got them mounted on the forks, and OMG!! I might even start taking short rides after dark!
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Post some pics....we would all like to see them.
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Pics were requested. So here goes:
First Pics, what the LED driving lights look like as mounted.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/red_barber/Farkles/C14%20Lights/FrontView-1.jpg)(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/red_barber/Farkles/C14%20Lights/SideView-1.jpg)
Bike on left is mine 4300K HID headlamps, 1800 lumen Driving lights. Bike on right has PIAA Style hyperwhite
headlamps and PIAA driving lights (Camera is about 30 feet in front of the bikes, at 3 feet off the ground:
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/red_barber/Farkles/C14%20Lights/SideBySide1.jpg)
Same two bikes, but camera is now about 70 feet away:
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/red_barber/Farkles/C14%20Lights/SideBySide2.jpg)
Keep in mind, the setup on the right pulls about 18 Amps whereas the HID/LED combo pulls about 10 Amps. Extra juice for
my heated jacket, etc.
HID lights on Low Beam, with driving lights (left), without driving lights (right)
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/red_barber/Farkles/C14%20Lights/HID_Lo_PlusLEDs-1.jpg)(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/red_barber/Farkles/C14%20Lights/HID_Lo_only-1.jpg)
HID lights on High Beam, with driving lights (left), without driving lights (right)
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/red_barber/Farkles/C14%20Lights/HID_Hi_PlusLEDs-2.jpg)(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/red_barber/Farkles/C14%20Lights/HID_Hi_only-1.jpg)
I stopped a little ways down the road, and shut the bike off, then turned the key back on. The following picture is with
ONLY the LED driving lights turned on, the headlights are still off:
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/red_barber/Farkles/C14%20Lights/LEDsOnly1.jpg)
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I stopped a little ways down the road, and shut the bike off, then turned the key back on. The following picture is with ONLY the LED driving lights turned on, the headlights are still off:
Great pics! I would be VERY concerned that the driving lights would totally blind oncoming traffic based on what I am seeing from your pictures.
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I share your concern. I had the camera down at less than 3 feet from the ground, so the glare shown here is worse than a driver sitting a foot higher and more to the right. There clearly is a great deal of "stray" light going upwards that does nobody any good. I am working on a solution for that right now. Once I get it perfected, I'll post info regarding my approach. The initial testing is encouraging, but it's not ready for prime time yet. However, I should note that I've put about 350 miles on the bike since installing the lights, mostly on two lane roads with oncoming traffic. So far, not even ONE driver has flashed their lights at me. This was all before I started my masking experiments, so lights were at full blast.
Ultimately, I would like to have light projecting directly forward, and as widely to left and right as possible. What I want to avoid is any light going above horizontal, or downward onto the road directly in front of the tire. My testing involves masking part of the lens, such that the upper and lower curves of each reflective parabola are blocked. Using aluminum tape, I was able to significantly reduce glare at the height of an opposing driver, and also reduce the very bright patch on the road surface, without affecting the "down-the-road" lighting much at all.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/red_barber/Farkles/C14%20Lights/Glarereductiontest.jpg)
I am trying to decide how best to implement this on a more permanant basis. I'm considering using black paint on the inside of the front glass "lens". Aesthetics do play into my final decision, as well as economics. Should have this figured out and posted by next weekend.
You may note from this picture that I have also removed my 3/4" spacers and replaced them with 1/4" spacers, to move the whole light closer to the fork leg. Out of view, at the inboard end of each spacer are two stainless steel 3/16" washers, which serve two purposes. 1) They distribute the pressure over more of the fender plastic, and 2) they provide necessary clearance. Ideally a 5/16" or 11/32" spacer would be more suitable. My spacers are acually cable ferrules, and I may still replace them with a ferrule for a larger size cable, which would be both longer and thicker.
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I share your concern. [...] There clearly is a great deal of "stray" light going upwards that does nobody any good. I am working on a solution for that right now.
The fact that you care is very encouraging (since I have seen postings from others who don't seem to care). As you already know, only a small fraction of people would "flash" even if they were all being blinded. If not from an annoyance factor, it isn't terribly safe to blind multi-thousand-pound vehicles to you at high speed :)
One thing I have noticed is that as I am getting older, I am becoming more and more prone to being blinded by poorly aimed, badly designed, and/or dirty headlights and it is taking longer and longer to "recover" my sight afterward. It doesn't help that lights have been getting brighter and brighter.
Anyway, you might also consider not masking at all and just wiring them into the high beams? Just another common option I have seen done.
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Don't think I could do that, they are just too helpful on low beam too. They are somewhat dimmable, as these same LED's can be used at different lumen outputs by adjusting input voltage. I am considering triggering off the hi/lo beam power from my now-unused right headlight plug, and running full power on high beam, and running through a resistor, to drop the power by 20-25% on low beam. That will be phase two, if I cannot reduce the glare enough with the masking.
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I'm not sure how well the internal power supply of the LED light unit will handle the current limiting approach. It has a built in power supply / regulator that wants to be fed +12VDC ~ +16VDC, and the series resistor will drop the input voltage (especially at idle). Plus, with the series resistor, you're basically throwing away power when on low beam.
Other have used a adjustable PWM module to lower brightness on low beam. I ordered this http://www.ebay.com/itm/220834955528?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/220834955528?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649) for low beam usage with the 3000Lm LED lights I just received. For $4, you really can't go wrong.
I'll have to "weatherize" the unit before installation, and maybe swap out the exposed pot for a recessed, screwdriver accessible pot. Also, it will need a couple small relays for switching between high and low.
BTW, I like your mounting hardware solution for the side of the fender mount. I was just thinking about how I might do that last night.
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Looks like the masking system is going to do the trick for me. After testing, I removed the lenses, and masked off (with plain old masking tape), the area where I wanted light to pass. Then I painted the rest of the lens black using BBQ paint. When dry, I put the painted side inward, and put the light back together. Not a great picture, but here's the basic concept:
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab164/red_barber/Farkles/C14%20Lights/mask.jpg)
Anyway, there is definitely less light in the upper and lower parts of the pattern, but it seems to be at full strength in the middle, where I wanted it. At driver's eye height, significant reduction in glare.
(Careful though, these lenses are glass and they will break if dropped- and I know that for sure). Now I have one glass lens and one homemade acrylic lens. Working on getting some new glass ones.
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Looks like the masking system is going to do the trick for me. After testing, I removed the lenses, and masked off (with plain old masking tape), the area where I wanted light to pass. Then I painted the rest of the lens black using BBQ paint. When dry, I put the painted side inward, and put the light back together. Not a great picture, but here's the basic concept: Anyway, there is definitely less light in the upper and lower parts of the pattern, but it seems to be at full strength in the middle, where I wanted it. At driver's eye height, significant reduction in glare.
Looks good and sound logic in the design. Too bad they don't offer it as some type of optional, included insert in a few different "strengths".
(Careful though, these lenses are glass and they will break if dropped- and I know that for sure). Now I have one glass lens and one homemade acrylic lens. Working on getting some new glass ones.
LOL
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I've got a friend who does stained glass work for a living. He can cut any glass, any shape. I'm going to talk with him tomorrow about cutting me a supply of lenses, since I suspect that stones could be a factor on the road. I'm going to keep looking for better "masking" options, perhaps thin sheet metal inside of the glass, or even outside to help protect it. One problem I had with this version, it is very hard to keep the glass from turning as I tighten down the ring. Getting it lined up was a struggle. If the mask was separate from the glass, I could tack it to the surface of the reflector unit, and the glass could spin freely.
I'm having my wife drive towards me to evaluate the glare for an oncoming driver. I'd rather not have to dim the output, since I REALLY like the extra light.
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One thing I have noticed is that as I am getting older, I am becoming more and more prone to being blinded by poorly aimed, badly designed, and/or dirty headlights and it is taking longer and longer to "recover" my sight afterward. It doesn't help that lights have been getting brighter and brighter.
Sorry Max... ;) :grouphug:
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/akljdqwieu23i.jpg)
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Sorry Max... ;) :grouphug:
I suppose the alternative is worse. Just had my 43rd birthday a few days ago. Laughed at my optometrist last year when she said she thinks I need bifocals (which, of course, I rejected). After another year, it isn't quite so funny anymore :(
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Happy birthday Max! :chugbeer:
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I suppose the alternative is worse. Just had my 43rd birthday a few days ago. Laughed at my optometrist last year when she said she thinks I need bifocals (which, of course, I rejected). After another year, it isn't quite so funny anymore :(
I feel your pain. I too had to visit the eye doctor just after my 43rd BD. That was also just a few short days ago. Well, around 4794 days ago. Anyway, the eyesight doesn't seem to get anything but worse. Wish it was my only deterioration, but everything else is going too now. You're resisting bifocals, wait till you have to give in to TRI-focals. Grrrrr.
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hi, got to tell you i do love the lights look on your bike,do you have a website where to buy those HID lights?
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Lights are VVME full ballast (not slim), 35w 4300K. Bought them on ebay for $62 shipped.
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thank you sir,