Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: cltsig on November 03, 2011, 09:04:20 AM
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Has anyone compared these 2 bikes? MSRP on the Ninja is $11,899 with ABS so it could be had for somewhere in the $10.5k range. I'm not sure when it comes out, however, but I'm guessing sometime this winter. My use would be more shorter trips (few hours), some twisties in the Carolina mountains and 10 mile commute on a daily basis. The Connie almost seems like overkill for these tasks as I'm not going cross-country or even cross-state anytime soon.
Pros:
-lighter than C14 (more flippable, easier to move around garage)
-cheaper
-less "stuff" to break
-probably more fun to ride around town or short rides
Cons:
-no bags (although soft bags aren't all that expensive and one less thing to get scratched up)
-less wind protection
-heated grips not standard but can be added
-no electrical plug
-probably not as comfortable for longer rides
Has anyone gone down this road and come away with a Concours? Granted, ABS is a new feature on the Ninja 1000 as of 2012 so probably not many have. However, any thoughts?
I owned a 2008 C14 (got cooked so sold it) and I loved it. I'm down to C14, Ninja 1000 ABS and with an outside shot the Suzuki GSF1250A. The Zuk technology is outdated and the price is high for what you get, so I'm leaning away from it.
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My friend that works at kawi showed me both at the daytona display.
* the 1000 performs better on the sport side of sport-touring and targets that market
* the 1400 is much better for the long distance touring side of sport-touring and targets that market
Kawasaki was not being repetitive offering both bikes, each has a distinct purpose.
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is that sorta like saying a Cadillac and a Porsche both have 4 wheels
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Different machines. You would not want to find yourself on a cross country trip on a Ninja 1000, at least not without some major changes in ergos. However a Ninja 1000 could probably eat the connie up in the twisties. Just depends on what you're primary use is going to be.
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is that sorta like saying a Cadillac and a Porsche both have 4 wheels
Im gonna give you the smartass answer back that its like a Porsche Panamera vs a Porsche Cayman ;)
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Im gonna give you the smartass answer back that its like a Porsche Panamera vs a Porsche Cayman ;)
Actually those two Porshces are great comparision of the two bikes. One goes slower but hauls more further and more comfortably.
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One goes slower
and by this you means hauls serious a$$
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I think at first glance you see "Ninja" and immediately think crotch rocket. It's not though. Upright riding position, adjustable windshield, etc. Not sure why it's a "Ninja" but to me it's more of a sporty sport-tourer. It's more like an FZ1 than a traditional Ninja.
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That's a good point, you're right.
But with the added CCs, and weight, they are still different.
How about a Carman and a Carerra. Wait, which one is which? :)
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Personally to me it sounds like the Ninja is the bike for you. I came from a Suzuki Bandit 1200 to my 09 C14. I had installed removable hard bags & a top case. If I had not started multiple day rides I would never had made the switch. I still have access to the Bandit even since the GF bought it. In town I would rather ride it just for its easier low speed & parking lot maneuverability. Once I hit the open road though it's always the Connie that I crave. Don't know if this helps but it's the closest experience I have.
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I think at first glance you see "Ninja" and immediately think crotch rocket. It's not though. Upright riding position, adjustable windshield, etc. Not sure why it's a "Ninja" but to me it's more of a sporty sport-tourer. It's more like an FZ1 than a traditional Ninja.
That "windshield" is very small and is just too narrow to provide any real "protection".
I ride with two friends on FZ1's and I had an FZ6 for awhile. Great riding position and very comparable to the "Ninja".
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+1
When I rode one that windshield was pretty nonexistent compared to a C14 (08 or 10 screen)
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yeah two different bikes, but if short trips are the norm the zx1000 would do the trick. some distance could be done but it would be the same as we know. now if kickin a$$ and takin names is the business at hand the zx1000r is the ticket. with a few bolt on mods it will out run the zx14 and the busa in the 1/4 mile.
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I think at first glance you see "Ninja" and immediately think crotch rocket. It's not though. Upright riding position, adjustable windshield, etc. Not sure why it's a "Ninja" but to me it's more of a sporty sport-tourer. It's more like an FZ1 than a traditional Ninja.
A close friend of mine has both bikes (and I've ridden his Ninja 1000). First of all, I don't agree with you that just because the Ninja has an upright riding position and adjustable windshield that its not a "crotch rocket". While its not in the same league as a ZX10r, its not in the same league as a Concours either. It's closer to the ZX10r.
My friend now has over 2000 miles on the Ninja, and 20,000 on his Concours. He feels like he can't live without either bike anymore. Like he said, the Ninja is a lot more fun than the Concours, but he would not think of putting nearly 4000 miles on the Ninja in a week (which he and I do once a year, every year).
BTW, he also has a Ducati 1198S, and it's simply too radical of a riding position to be comfortable on a 300 mile day, which we also do almost every Saturday. Keep in mind that we live in the Houston area, and we have to do a lot of straight line slogging to get to a handful of curves - which is pretty much why we have to ride 250-300 miles minimum every weekend. He considers the Ninja to be the perfect balance of being plenty sporty, but not enough that he has to go to a chiropractor every Monday.
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<snip>
My friend now has over 2000 miles on the Ninja, and 20,000 on his Concours. He feels like he can't live with either bike anymore.
<snip>
Do you mean "with" or "without"? "Without" seems to make more sense in context. Is he going to get rid of both of them?
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Keep in mind that we live in the Houston area, and we have to do a lot of straight line slogging to get to a handful of curves - which is pretty much why we have to ride 250-300 miles minimum every weekend. He considers the Ninja to be the perfect balance of being plenty sporty, but not enough that he has to go to a chiropractor every Monday.
I live in the same area & suffer the same straight line slogs which is one of the other reasons I prefer to be on the C14 as opposed to the Bandit.
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Do you mean "with" or "without"? "Without" seems to make more sense in context. Is he going to get rid of both of them?
Yes, meant WITHOUT - thanks for catching my typo.
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Has anyone compared these 2 bikes?
It is not really a valid comparison for most people. They are two TOTALLY different types of bikes in different classes.
You also left off many other Cons of the Ninja 1000, such as:
*Chain drive, which is much more maintenance.
*No traction control
*No variable valve timing
*Smaller alternator
*Probably have considerably less torque/grunt (despite being lighter)
*Shorter wheelbase (worse ride for long distance)
*Probably more vibration (no gear driven balancers)
*No KIPASS (although that might not matter to some)
*No analog speedometer
*Less other instrumentation and control
*FAR FAR worse warranty than the C14
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You also left off many other Cons of the Ninja 1000, such as:
*Chain drive, which is much more maintenance.
*No traction control
*No variable valve timing
*Smaller alternator
*Probably have considerably less torque/grunt (despite being lighter)
*Shorter wheelbase (worse ride for long distance)
*Probably more vibration (no gear driven balancers)
*No KIPASS (although that might not matter to some)
*No analog speedometer
*Less other instrumentation and control
*FAR FAR worse warranty than the C14
And mama won't ride on the back...
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It is not really a valid comparison for most people. They are two TOTALLY different types of bikes in different classes.
<snip>
Personally, I think all bike comparisons are valid. I think every one of us compares and contrasts all the bikes on our shopping list before buying. For some, both bikes will be on the list, and for others only one or neither.
If the Ninja 1000 ABS would have been available when I bought the C14, there is a good chance that it would have been my choice. Now, it is easier to keep the C14 and fill the garage with a variety of cheap used bikes. Lots of days the C14 sits while the old scoots get ridden. Each bike has different qualities, but they are all a joy to ride.
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Lots of days the C14 sits while the old scoots get ridden. Each bike has different qualities, but they are all a joy to ride.
+1 to that, same here. :thumbs:
I love steak, but I also love seafood, I wouldn't want to only eat one every day... :)
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It is not really a valid comparison for most people. They are two TOTALLY different types of bikes in different classes.
You also left off many other Cons of the Ninja 1000, such as:
*Chain drive, which is much more maintenance.
*No traction control
*No variable valve timing
*Smaller alternator
*Probably have considerably less torque/grunt (despite being lighter)
*Shorter wheelbase (worse ride for long distance)
*Probably more vibration (no gear driven balancers)
*No KIPASS (although that might not matter to some)
*No analog speedometer
*Less other instrumentation and control
*FAR FAR worse warranty than the C14
The "less torque/grunt" does not actually hold up. In large part because of the gearing, the Ninja accelerates like a raped ape. It turns a LOT of rpms even in sixth gear. Many people are actually gearing them down. When I rode my friends, I was grinning ear to ear accelerating in sixth gear. I'd say it accelerates as hard in sixth gear as the Concours does in fourth - or maybe even third. If there is any lack of midrange, it is more than made up for in gearing.
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The "less torque/grunt" does not actually hold up. In large part because of the gearing, the Ninja accelerates like a raped ape. It turns a LOT of rpms even in sixth gear. Many people are actually gearing them down. When I rode my friends, I was grinning ear to ear accelerating in sixth gear. I'd say it accelerates as hard in sixth gear as the Concours does in fourth - or maybe even third. If there is any lack of midrange, it is more than made up for in gearing.
I am not an expert in it for sure. But the C14 is, afterall, a much larger engine (40%!) and variable valve timing to boot. The way it is tuned and geared, it should be able to dump considerably more power at lower RPM than the Ninja 1000.
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Has anyone compared these 2 bikes? Cons:
-no bags (although soft bags aren't all that expensive and one less thing to get scratched up)
-less wind protection
-heated grips not standard but can be added
-no electrical plug
-probably not as comfortable for longer rides
Add no center stand to your list. And not available. Add no abs. And not available. I still have my 08 C14. I liked all of the pros, but didn't like want the cons.
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Add no center stand to your list. And not available. Add no abs. And not available. I still have my 08 C14. I liked all of the pros, but didn't like want the cons.
It looks like you haven't been paying attention, friend. This thread is about the 2012 Ninja 1000 ABS. http://kawasaki.com/Products/Product-Specifications.aspx?scid=6&id=568 (http://kawasaki.com/Products/Product-Specifications.aspx?scid=6&id=568)
Not only does it have ABS, it has non-linked ABS. :thumbs:
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*Chain drive, which is much more maintenance.
I like the "use and forget" factor of the shaft, but wouldn't dismiss a bike because it has chain. I had a great experience with a Scottoiler (which I modified to give me 8000 km/5000 miles between refills).
*No traction control
Good point. For some. I have it built in (in my right wrist) but I'd like to have it, just like ABS. It's a safety net in case I oversee sand or other things. So far I spun my C14 three times and all were underwear changing experiences. Fortunately I didn't go down.
*No variable valve timing
So what? Can somebody here honestly feel anything? Specially with those damn secondary butterflies.
*Smaller alternator
GPS and grips don't take much.
*Probably have considerably less torque/grunt (despite being lighter)
Nope, and nope. Gearing helps, not because the 1000 is shortly geared, but because the C14 is impressively long geared. All other bikes that I ride (I tried at least 30 different this year alone) are 20% shorter geared than the C14.
*Shorter wheelbase (worse ride for long distance)
Good point.
*Probably more vibration (no gear driven balancers)
VERY good point, particularly for a "sensitive" guy like me. I just loathe vibs.
*No KIPASS (although that might not matter to some)
Give me a break. That alone would make me buy the Ninja 1000.
*No analog speedometer
I hate digital speedos, but I guess I could accommodate.
*Less other instrumentation and control
Yeap, those are entertaining AND useful, specially the TPS.
*FAR FAR worse warranty than the C14
VERY good point, but the Ninja seems like a simpler, more proven bike with less things to go wrong.
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I am not an expert in it for sure. But the C14 is, afterall, a much larger engine (40%!) and variable valve timing to boot. The way it is tuned and geared, it should be able to dump considerably more power at lower RPM than the Ninja 1000.
I don't claim to know the difference in the torque curves, but I do know how the bikes run. You'll feel like you are on a turd when you get off the Ninja and back on the Concours. I know a lot about such things, and I realize it is about more than just the power curve in this case - it's also about the weight of the bikes and the gearing. But the reasons don't really matter as much as the results.
BTW, I rode a ZX-14 recently. That is another bike that will make a Concours feel like a turd - especially in mid range acceleration. I knew the bike was a lot faster, but what I didn't expect was how much more low and midrange punch is has than the Concours. Night and day difference.
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If I could only have one bike the Ninja 1000 fitted for top case and hard saddle bags might be my choice over the C14.
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Might just be my thing but I dont really like to talk strait up HP/Torque numbers alone when comparing bike to bike without considering weight. The C14 probably can kick out alot more power but it has to get an extra couple hundred pounds in motion so in real life riding I find it considerably slower than the 1000 even with the extra HP/Torque.
The shaft drive is pretty much maintenance free but it is nice to be able to change the gearing of a chain. You can gear it pretty much how you want for pretty cheap which is nice.
They are just so different of bikes. It would really depend on what I did more. Strait up distance or fun shorter rides.
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This is exactly the type of back and forth I was hoping for. Hadn't thought of everything in such detail. Regarding some of the cons debated, is it worth $3k less to get to Ninja and have those cons? Then again, soft bags, electrical out and heated grips could be close to $1k so the gap is closing. What to do, what to do.
Anyone know when the Ninja ABS comes out? I can sit on a non-ABS at the local stealer but wondered when my purchase could go through on either.
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I ended up in a similar situation. Not exactly as I had my eye on a used c14 so I saved a lot of money in not going with the Ninja 1000. At the time I could not ride the Ninja, but have since.
The Ninja seat and windshield are not very good. The passenger accommodations are pretty basic as well.
Performance? In this thread it appears the Ninja is faster, but I've yet to see a magazine test that showed this. Actually, in all measures the c14 holds a small power advantage. When it comes to torque, it has a big advantage.
I really wanted the Ninja, but after riding one I'm glad I ended up with the c14. Thats FOR ME. The wind protection of the c14 means an extra two months of riding per year.
But, before you fall in love with either, do one thing. Call your insurance agent and get a quote for the yearly premium. Some bikes become very attractive once this is figured in to the deal. My C-14 is dirt-cheap compared to something that fit into the "sport bike" category. A money savings that is enough to pay most of the bike payment.
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I ended up in a similar situation. Not exactly as I had my eye on a used c14 so I saved a lot of money in not going with the Ninja 1000. At the time I could not ride the Ninja, but have since.
The Ninja seat and windshield are not very good. The passenger accommodations are pretty basic as well.
Performance? In this thread it appears the Ninja is faster, but I've yet to see a magazine test that showed this. Actually, in all measures the c14 holds a small power advantage. When it comes to torque, it has a big advantage.
I really wanted the Ninja, but after riding one I'm glad I ended up with the c14. Thats FOR ME. The wind protection of the c14 means an extra two months of riding per year.
But, before you fall in love with either, do one thing. Call your insurance agent and get a quote for the yearly premium. Some bikes become very attractive once this is figured in to the deal. My C-14 is dirt-cheap compared to something that fit into the "sport bike" category. A money savings that is enough to pay most of the bike payment.
There have been plenty of tests on the Ninja. It most definitely is faster than the Concours. But I stress what I said earlier - the Ninja is worlds more responsive due to it's gearing and weight advantage. I've gone through several magazine tests I have on both the Concours and the Ninja 1000 (and it's soulmate, the Z1000). The Ninja is a solid 1/2 second and five mph faster in the 1/4 mile. That is very significant in drag racing terms.
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well can't find any track testing of the C14, but I'll show the test between the 2012 zx14 and the zx10r on the 1/4 mile. the zx14r turns 146mph stock, the zx10r turns 144mph stock. bolt on mods the zx10r get to 156mph.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/c3pM0hKvQWw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WLlrnh3qYkQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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*Chain drive, which is much more maintenance.
I like the "use and forget" factor of the shaft, but wouldn't dismiss a bike because it has chain. I had a great experience with a Scottoiler (which I modified to give me 8000 km/5000 miles between refills).
For me, the shaft drive was a HUGE plus. I *hated* chains. They were always rusting, needing to be greased, needing adjustment, wearing out sprockets, flinging debris around, making me worry they would fail and take me down, etc. I just love the shaft drive.
*No variable valve timing
So what? Can somebody here honestly feel anything? Specially with those damn secondary butterflies.
It adds to the overall power available. In and of itself, it is not really an advantage, other than the total package.
*Smaller alternator
GPS and grips don't take much.
But if you want heated seat, grips, jacket, extra lighting, extra electronics, etc, it can be an issue.
...*No KIPASS (although that might not matter to some)
Give me a break. That alone would make me buy the Ninja 1000.
LOL :) I don't hate Kipass, but I also don't see it as any real advantage either. It WOULD be a HUGE advantage if it included unlocking the baggage, the gas tank, glove box, and didn't require mucking around with the "key" anyway.
*No analog speedometer
I hate digital speedos, but I guess I could accommodate.
I was just listing everything I could think of. Some people won't care. Me? I *HATE* digital-only speedometers or tachometers. I would prefer to have both, but never just digital.
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Performance? In this thread it appears the Ninja is faster, but I've yet to see a magazine test that showed this. Actually, in all measures the c14 holds a small power advantage. When it comes to torque, it has a big advantage.
It falls a lot to what others were saying. In specs, and despite the weight, the C-14 will win in many straightline performance comparisons (barely). But I bet the Ninja might still *feel* faster (even though it is not)- certainly more nimble, and will out-corner too.
From my compiled data:
Concours: 0-60, 2.90 sec 1/4mi in 10.76sec
Ninja1000: 0-60. 2.91 sec 1/4mi in 10.81sec
(Note: there are plenty of variation in different sources)
(Note2: the Ninja times are NON-ABS. With ABS, it will be heavier and slightly slower)
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There have been plenty of tests on the Ninja. It most definitely is faster than the Concours. But I stress what I said earlier - the Ninja is worlds more responsive due to it's gearing and weight advantage. I've gone through several magazine tests I have on both the Concours and the Ninja 1000 (and it's soulmate, the Z1000). The Ninja is a solid 1/2 second and five mph faster in the 1/4 mile. That is very significant in drag racing terms.
Actually, both Sport Rider and Motorcyclist show faster times for the Conscours 14. If you look at the test of the 1000 Ninja, in the 4-11 Sport Rider it shows a time of 11.30 and speed of 123.46. The Concours 14, tested 6-08 by the same mag, shows a time of 10.52@130.5, a eternity in drag racing.
Cycle World shows the 2011 Concours 14 running an 11.03@121.42 in that test against the new BMW.
The c14 does tend to get worked in the tests due to the extra-tall 6th gear and most test roll on performance in 6th. I would be for Kawasaki throwing about 3/4 of the electronics in the garbage, however.
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"Cycle World shows the 2011 Concours 14 running an 11.03@121.42 in that test against the new BMW."
But you only need two, maybe three gears to run that quarter mile. ;D
+1 on the sixth gear roll-on from 60 mph. HORRIBLE. :(
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<snip>
But, before you fall in love with either, do one thing. Call your insurance agent and get a quote for the yearly premium. Some bikes become very attractive once this is figured in to the deal. My C-14 is dirt-cheap compared to something that fit into the "sport bike" category. A money savings that is enough to pay most of the bike payment.
I totally forgot about this. I had a friend of mine get quoted on the ninja 1000 when i bought my C14 and he was around 2000/year with a clean record. Not only am I about 5 years younger i only pay roughly 600/year for the C14
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It falls a lot to what others were saying. In specs, and despite the weight, the C-14 will win in many straightline performance comparisons (barely). But I bet the Ninja might still *feel* faster (even though it is not)- certainly more nimble, and will out-corner too.
From my compiled data:
Concours: 0-60, 2.90 sec 1/4mi in 10.76sec
Ninja1000: 0-60. 2.91 sec 1/4mi in 10.81sec
(Note: there are plenty of variation in different sources)
(Note2: the Ninja times are NON-ABS. With ABS, it will be heavier and slightly slower)
Max, that is by far the fastest Concours time I have seen, and I have not seen a Ninja 1000 time that slow - where did you get it? I have several tests of both bikes and that data is not nearly what I find to be the "norm".
I have a Cycle World in front of me right now that shows the Ninja 1000 at 10.5 and 128.5. Another Cycle world shows the Z1000 which is a virtually identical bike mechanically at 10.38 at 130.4. Another Cycle World shows the Concours at 11.03 at 121.42. Keep in mind that I'm using the same magazine. I've seen similar difference in other magazines, but I don't have them in front of me right now.
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Max, that is by far the fastest Concours time I have seen, and I have not seen a Ninja 1000 time that slow - where did you get it? I have several tests of both bikes and that data is not nearly what I find to be the "norm".
I have a Cycle World in front of me right now that shows the Ninja 1000 at 10.5 and 128.5. Another Cycle world shows the Z1000 which is a virtually identical bike mechanically at 10.38 at 130.4. Another Cycle World shows the Concours at 11.03 at 121.42. Keep in mind that I'm using the same magazine. I've seen similar difference in other magazines, but I don't have them in front of me right now.
I really wish I had saved the links, since I have several numbers. It is maddening. :( I did confirm it in more than one place before keeping the number, but I had other numbers too. But same thing for the 1000.
Look up just a few posts from this: " The Concours 14, tested 6-08 by the same mag, shows a time of 10.52".
I guess the real point to take home is: the numbers tent to vary some, but the Concours 14's acceleration/speed is easily very similar to the Ninja 1000.
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snip
But, before you fall in love with either, do one thing. Call your insurance agent and get a quote for the yearly premium. Some bikes become very attractive once this is figured in to the deal. My C-14 is dirt-cheap compared to something that fit into the "sport bike" category. A money savings that is enough to pay most of the bike payment.
I agree with this. I would probably own a ZX-14 right now except my yearly premium is $580 for the Connie, VS. close to $3000 for the ZX-14 if I remember correctly.
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I really wish I had saved the links, since I have several numbers. It is maddening. :( I did confirm it in more than one place before keeping the number, but I had other numbers too. But same thing for the 1000.
Look up just a few posts from this: " The Concours 14, tested 6-08 by the same mag, shows a time of 10.52".
I guess the real point to take home is: the numbers tent to vary some, but the Concours 14's acceleration/speed is easily very similar to the Ninja 1000.
We are going to have to agree to disagree then. I think the Ninja is definitely a faster bike by 1/2 second in the quarter mile. Some day I'll have to dig up all of my tests on the Concours (I have tons of magazines). I've ridden the Ninja and I can assure you that if feels very noticeably faster than the Concours.
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We are going to have to agree to disagree then. I think the Ninja is definitely a faster bike by 1/2 second in the quarter mile. Some day I'll have to dig up all of my tests on the Concours (I have tons of magazines). I've ridden the Ninja and I can assure you that if feels very noticeably faster than the Concours.
I'm sure the light weight and feel of the 1000 would make it "feel" faster even if it were the same speed. If you had those track times on a Honda Trail 90, it would feel like it was the fastest bike on the planet, IMHO.
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I'm sure the light weight and feel of the 1000 would make it "feel" faster even if it were the same speed. If you had those track times on a Honda Trail 90, it would feel like it was the fastest bike on the planet, IMHO.
Agreed. Lighter feel, more bent over position, probably more vibration, lower gearing, louder sounds, faster turning, less wind protection. All the cues for going fast. How many humans would detect a fraction of a second faster or slower given such different conditions, anyway?
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Is speed and power a big deal anymore when selecting a bike? Really, its tough to find something slow unless you stop in at a Harley dealer.
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Wait so does this mean the butt dyno isn't accurate? :-\
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I know this is a concours forum so its a little biased. I have a 08 and I'm not trying to doubt. But it is just giving misinformation. The 1/4 mile numbers seem a little bit biased... ok.. a lot biased. I have ridden both and I would like to say that the bike that I own is the fastest thing out there too.
Just take it for what it is. A great ST bike with great wind protection and comfort.
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Agreed. Lighter feel, more bent over position, probably more vibration, lower gearing, louder sounds, faster turning, less wind protection. All the cues for going fast. How many humans would detect a fraction of a second faster or slower given such different conditions, anyway?
Sorry guys, but I've read enough road tests on both bikes, and I referred to actual tests within three months apart by the same magazine. I'm not just going by seat of the pants, but I'm using seat of the pants to say that I believe what those tests say. Maybe ya'll would like to write Cycle World and tell them that you don't believe they tested them properly ;)
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There are no biased quarter miles being given. Sport Rider and Motorcyclist have nothing to gain by fudging Concours 14 times. They are two random mags I grabbed. Both of the mags show the c14 as being faster than the Ninja 1000. That is evidence. Bias is coming to a conclusion despite evidence to the contrary.
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DELETE DUPLICATE POST
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There are no biased quarter miles being given. Sport Rider and Motorcyclist have nothing to gain by fudging Concours 14 times. They are two random mags I grabbed. Both of the mags show the c14 as being faster than the Ninja 1000. That is evidence. Bias is coming to a conclusion despite evidence to the contrary.
I have not seen that. Are you saying that both magazines tested both bikes and using the same magazine they got faster results for the Concours? What months magazines are they? I have a subscription to Motorcyclist and and I don't recall that.
Thanks
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the 4-11 Sport Rider it shows a time of 11.30 and speed of 123.46. The Concours 14, tested 6-08 by the same mag, shows a time of 10.52@130.5, a eternity in drag racing.
Motorcyclist has a test of the 11 Concours in the 5-11 issue showing a time of 10.84 @ 127.7 The Motorcyclist test of the 08 happened back in June of 08 and the time is 10.52@130.5.
Each magazine tested the Ninja 1000 in the early part of 11. Sport Rider 4-11 shows the Ninja 1000 at 11.3@123.46. Motorcyclist did not list a time for the Ninja in their test.
The z 1000 was faster than the Ninja, but it is 25lbs lighter and packs a gallon less fuel.
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The only evidence I have is my test ride of the 1000 with a couple of buddies riding zx10rs vs my own C14 riding with the same people. The 1000 was faster in all situations including from a standstill. And I actually know how to ride the C14.
I love my C14 and all my friends give me dirty looks when it starts getting cold or the ride gets long or it gets rainy. Thats what the bike is and it is fast for a 700lb bike. Its just not 1000 fast and I'm ok with that because I would rather have my C14 when I am really touring. It is what it is.
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That settles it!!! MY OLD 2008 SILVER WAS THE FASTEST COLOR ON RECORD. LOL!!! I know it was faster than my BLUE 2010.
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That settles it!!! MY OLD 2008 SILVER WAS THE FASTEST COLOR ON RECORD. LOL!!! I know it was faster than my BLUE 2010.
Nope using internet information. I checked Snopes.com. The blue is faster.
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Wow! Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I'll likely do the 2012 C14 if a good deal is to be had; otherwise, maybe a 2011. Anyway, things that swayed me towards the C14 include:
-Chain drive - forgotten what a hassle that was
-insurance - one year of higher rates on the Ninja almost negates the difference in purchase price
-wind protection/heated grips - extends my riding another few months/year
-electrical - I'll use a GPS so it's nice to have it factory ready
I had a 2008 and loved it (other than the heat) and it was plenty fast enough for me. I saw something that I thought I could make work and I needed to explore with all of you fine folks to be sure it was or wasn't right. Seems it isn't and the C14 is what the doctor ordered. Nothing else compares for the money.
Thanks again. Feel free to continue debating milliseconds to 60, colors, etc.
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The only evidence I have is my test ride of the 1000 with a couple of buddies riding zx10rs vs my own C14 riding with the same people. The 1000 was faster in all situations including from a standstill. And I actually know how to ride the C14.
I love my C14 and all my friends give me dirty looks when it starts getting cold or the ride gets long or it gets rainy. Thats what the bike is and it is fast for a 700lb bike. Its just not 1000 fast and I'm ok with that because I would rather have my C14 when I am really touring. It is what it is.
Could not agree more. Once the speed gets to a certain point a person is just talking about going to jail or losing a license .03 seconds quicker.
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the 4-11 Sport Rider it shows a time of 11.30 and speed of 123.46. The Concours 14, tested 6-08 by the same mag, shows a time of 10.52@130.5, a eternity in drag racing.
Motorcyclist has a test of the 11 Concours in the 5-11 issue showing a time of 10.84 @ 127.7 The Motorcyclist test of the 08 happened back in June of 08 and the time is 10.52@130.5.
Each magazine tested the Ninja 1000 in the early part of 11. Sport Rider 4-11 shows the Ninja 1000 at 11.3@123.46. Motorcyclist did not list a time for the Ninja in their test.
The z 1000 was faster than the Ninja, but it is 25lbs lighter and packs a gallon less fuel.
I find it interesting that when the Concours first came out there were tests that had it at such good times, but none of the tests since then have been anywhere near that fast. Maybe some pre-production ringers when the bikes first were sent to the press? BTW, the only really impressive time since - the one in Motorcyclist that shows 10.84 at 127 is a "corrected" time. I know a little about drag racing, and have in fact drag raced several of my Corvettes. Corrected times need more definition. Then only true correction factor allowed is for altitude, but many people use temperature corrections as well. There are some real issues with doing this. What you gain in horsepower in cold air, you sometimes loose in actual track conditions.
This is also one of the concerns with comparing times. Are all of them corrected? What were the weather conditions (it does make a difference - I know that by first hand experience).
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-insurance - one year of higher rates on the Ninja almost negates the difference in purchase price
Yeah, insurance can be a b****. We are fortunate that most insurance companies don't just look at displacement now (because that used to be all they focused on).
I had a 2008 and loved it (other than the heat)
Well, that was pretty much solved with 2010+. Add in the better 2010+ do-dads (heated grips, higher mirrors, larger screen, grip mounted computer control, screen memory, traction control, exhaust heat shield, glovebox, ABS, etc) and you will be loving it even more.
and it was plenty fast enough for me.
I would hope so. Very few Concours owners have any interest in drag racing or worrying about fractions of a second in the 1/4 mile. And for those that are, there are still plenty of modification options.
Thanks again. Feel free to continue debating milliseconds to 60, colors, etc.
Yeah, really. Good luck with your hunting! Hope to see you back.
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I find it interesting that when the Concours first came out there were tests that had it at such good times, but none of the tests since then have been anywhere near that fast. Maybe some pre-production ringers when the bikes first were sent to the press? BTW, the only really impressive time since - the one in Motorcyclist that shows 10.84 at 127 is a "corrected" time. I know a little about drag racing, and have in fact drag raced several of my Corvettes. Corrected times need more definition. Then only true correction factor allowed is for altitude, but many people use temperature corrections as well. There are some real issues with doing this. What you gain in horsepower in cold air, you sometimes loose in actual track conditions.
This is also one of the concerns with comparing times. Are all of them corrected? What were the weather conditions (it does make a difference - I know that by first hand experience).
Sport Rider does print corrected times. I suppose they have no choice, really, due to testing bikes in all seasons.
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Both bikes have won Bike of the Year. Both are quick, fast and decent handling. I would think that friends riding one of each would be able to have an enjoyable ride together, whether they rode their own bikes or swapped mounts. From the tests I've read, they s/b close enough in performance and capabilities that many, if not most, riders who like one or the other would like both.
The Ninja 1000 is not a ZX10R, nor it is it a C14. I would not make any assumptions about someone else's insurance without calling their agent. Normally, my insurance is based on displacement, and they do not typically surcharge performance bikes. I believe that for me, the Ninja 1000 would be significantly cheaper to insure than the C14 (at least comparing the same model year for each bike).
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I believe thats why we ALL suggested calling his insurance agent before making a decision. I found Progressive did use engine size somewhat, but the cost was based on what CLASS the bike fit in. My c14 was classified as a TOURING bike.
My SV650s was 1/3rd as much as a GSXR 600 would have been to insure for the year..same limits and deductibles. The c14 was 1/2 as much as the same year zx14 was.
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I own a highly modified 2008 C14 and I wouldn't trade it for any other ST on the market (I've ridden them all). I've ridden the Ninja 1000 and will probably be buying one for track days, around town, and ripping twisties. You can't go wrong with either bike. Just go to bike week in Daytona and demo ride each of them back to back.
Has anyone compared these 2 bikes? MSRP on the Ninja is $11,899 with ABS so it could be had for somewhere in the $10.5k range. I'm not sure when it comes out, however, but I'm guessing sometime this winter. My use would be more shorter trips (few hours), some twisties in the Carolina mountains and 10 mile commute on a daily basis. The Connie almost seems like overkill for these tasks as I'm not going cross-country or even cross-state anytime soon.
Pros:
-lighter than C14 (more flippable, easier to move around garage)
-cheaper
-less "stuff" to break
-probably more fun to ride around town or short rides
Cons:
-no bags (although soft bags aren't all that expensive and one less thing to get scratched up)
-less wind protection
-heated grips not standard but can be added
-no electrical plug
-probably not as comfortable for longer rides
Has anyone gone down this road and come away with a Concours? Granted, ABS is a new feature on the Ninja 1000 as of 2012 so probably not many have. However, any thoughts?
I owned a 2008 C14 (got cooked so sold it) and I loved it. I'm down to C14, Ninja 1000 ABS and with an outside shot the Suzuki GSF1250A. The Zuk technology is outdated and the price is high for what you get, so I'm leaning away from it.
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I believe thats why we ALL suggested calling his insurance agent before making a decision. I found Progressive did use engine size somewhat, but the cost was based on what CLASS the bike fit in. My c14 was classified as a TOURING bike.
My SV650s was 1/3rd as much as a GSXR 600 would have been to insure for the year..same limits and deductibles. The c14 was 1/2 as much as the same year zx14 was.
Agreed. It varies wildly from one company to another. My 1.4 liter Concours, NEW, was only about $50 more per year than my old ZRX-11. Sometimes there isn't much logic to the stuff. Other times there is.
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Wow, there's a lot of opinions on this topic. I own both bikes; each has it's advantages.
I have a 2009 C14: no flies, AreaP full system, PC3 with Fuel Moto map. I have never used the bags: a 20 pound saving.
My Ninja 1000 is a 2011 stocker, with MRA double bubble screen and 190/55 BT016.
I love both bikes.
The C14 has the tire pressure monitoring system, no maintenance shaft drive, and ABS. Really good features! I also have Pilot Road 2s to enhance handling, plus a ZX-14 seat to lower the seat height an inch. All good.
Both bikes handle really well in the twisties.
Based on testing (racing!) with my friends bikes, the MODDED C14 is definitely faster. However, stock to stock, my opinion is that the NinjaK would be faster.
Really, both bikes are great. If you want a FAST sport/TOURER, the C14 would be your choice. If you want a one-up sportbike, with a great powerband and excellent handling, the Ninja fits the bill.
Stock, the C14 is really restricted at low rpms, while the Ninja is not. Pull the flies on the C14, add a PC, and the the bike pulls like a locomotive down low.
Have fun,
Dave
Bradenton Florida
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the 1000 is a much more sporting bike than c-14
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I'm considering an update or addition, I currently ride a '05 C10 which I love! farkled it for my wife and I (Day long saddle, both sets of air wings, highway pegs and rifle windshield, etc...) but also added some front end handling upgrades (springs that make just putting around with my wife a little rigid, and brace).
What are your thoughts on keeping my paid off C10 and buying the ninja, or should i start over with the C14? My wife is 5'11" and I am 6'1', we have the C10 set up where we both are comfortable and have done multiple week tours on it. But When I bought it new, I was looking at a ZZR 1200 after coming off of a GSXR 600 and would like a little more zing in my fling, but not the lay on the tank position anymore.
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Two is better than one, but the C-14 is a fantastic compromise between the two if you can only have one.
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I got to try the Ninja 1000 today. Not an abs version, but close enough. I liked the bike very much. If I could only own oen machine, this might be the one. Owning the c14 changes my perspective on the Ninja, though. It is lighter, but not light in the sportbike world. It has good top end power, but not in the sportbike world. For obvious reasons it also does nto have the low end torque of a c14 with the flies removed. Its also not as comfortable as I had hoped.
For me, I'll get a zx10 instead. If I'm paying for a seat rebuild anyway, I can do it to the zx10 as well. Also, a set of higher bars can be fitted. http://spieglerusa.com/handlebar-conversion-kit-4306.htm (http://spieglerusa.com/handlebar-conversion-kit-4306.htm)
If I start with a used bike, I'll save money as well.