Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: maxtog on October 22, 2011, 09:09:53 AM
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I am pulling this topic from another thread, since I have never seen one about the drop-down visor feature, and this would be a great resource for others. I have a helmet with a drop-down sunscreen visor, and I find the feature so useful that I will NEVER own another helmet without it! Share your experiences and ask your questions about them in this thread.
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These look to be a great idea and might eliminate the need to carry two visors when on a trip (even though changing them out on my RF1100 is quick and easy).
Exactly. Plus you can even pop it down or up WHILE RIDING. For example, when going into a tunnel, or suddenly heading into the sun. And it rarely needs cleaning, so you only have to "maintain" one shield. Also, you don't have to remember to carry another.
Plus- when riding slowly or at a light, etc, you can open the main clear shield while still leaving the tinted one down!
I'm not sure how well they'll work with glasses. Can anyone comment?
Should work OK. I don't find there to be a clearance issue on mine. I don't wear glasses while riding, but there looks to be enough space.
Does having a hollow space in the crown of the helmet (where the retracted visor resides), and the accompanying mechanisms, have any adverse effect on the helmets ability to protect you in a crash?
I don't believe so. I have the Scorpion EXO-1000 and it is SNELL 2005 rated. That would be REALLY hard to get on an unsafe helmet design. SNELL is extremely strict.
I have three issues with the EXO-1000's sun visor feature. Would be interesting to hear from those with other manufacturers' implementations to see if they have similar experiences-
1) They include a lightly tinted one which is useless. So I immediately had to replace it with a dark tint. It is nice that you CAN replace them and that darker ones are made, but it is an extra expense (probably part of their plan) and they can be a BI*** to physically replace.
2) The sun visor doesn't extend down quite far enough for me. It needs to be about another 1cm longer (further down) for best coverage. Plus the nose cutout is just silly- nobody's nose is that long!
3) The mechanism is a bit hard to operate and sometimes it is hard to get it to go up all the way up.
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+1
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Kind of like my flight helmet from my military days, very handy to have both in one helmet. I have a modular now and I love it, I have always been a "sunglasses under a clear shield" kind of guy.
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Here is a picture I took that you will never see online when looking at the design. You can see where the slot for the visor on the EXO-1000 is located in relation to the outside shell and the inside rigid foam. I am guessing the other manufacturers do something very similar. It is quite possible the shell is several mm bigger to accommodate the space for the slot/pocket so the amount of inside foam remains the same.
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+1 on the EXO-1000
I have owned four of them and haven't paid over $120 for any of them. Good value for so many features.
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Anyone know the physical differences in the EXO-1100 and the EXO-1000? Prices?
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Anyone know the physical differences in the EXO-1100 and the EXO-1000? Prices?
I checked those before I bought my last EXO-1000 and I didn't see anything that justified an extra $160 over what I paid for my helmet. I would rather have two helmets that are nice rather than one helmet that is the latest and greatest.
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If you think the flip down visors are nice, give one of these a try:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/69/17680/ITEM/Bell-Star-Vortex-RS-1-and-Revolver-Helmet-Transitions-Photochromatic-Shield.aspx?WT.ac=SLIsearch (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/69/17680/ITEM/Bell-Star-Vortex-RS-1-and-Revolver-Helmet-Transitions-Photochromatic-Shield.aspx?WT.ac=SLIsearch)
I haven't worn my EXO-1000 since I purchased this shield for my RS-1.
Here's a video of it
Bell-Transitions SOLFX Shield (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WPzHaUYkRc#ws)
Bell Vortex/Star Transitions Shield (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HYRXeYwM_M#ws)
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If you think the flip down visors are nice, give one of these a try:
That is a neat idea and application! But I fear that like transitions-style glasses, they will either neither get fully clear nor go dark enough. That is one reason I stopped wearing that type of glasses. The main reasons were because they don't work in cars and they take so long to go from dark back to light. Neither of those reasons matter with a motorcycle shield, though.
I wonder why it is not more widely available?
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I wonder why it is not more widely available?
$120 is pretty pricey for a shield IMO. I will continue to buy EXO-1000's on sale for around $100.
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$120 is pretty pricey for a shield IMO. I will continue to buy EXO-1000's on sale for around $100.
Where did you see them so cheap? I just googled and found them around the $200 mark minimum.
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$120 is pretty pricey for a shield IMO. I will continue to buy EXO-1000's on sale for around $100.
Yikes, I never followed the link to see the price. Yes, $120 for just a shield- and one that only fits on one brand helmet, is super pricey.
Not sure where you are getting $100 for an EXO-1000. My Sublim model was $300 but now on sale for $230 from most places and with only a few sizes, since it is discontinued. Plus you have to add another $20 for the dark sun shield. Maybe they are just desperate to dump old stock. The EXO-1100 replaces the 1000, and it is not SNELL certified, but ECE 22.05 instead. Seems to be otherwise all the same identical features, although some people report it is a different shape.
WARNING: Anyone looking at EXO-1000/1100 helmets- they run MUCH smaller than HJC and other helmets I have owned and I had to jump TWO sizes larger to get one that would fit.
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Yikes, I never followed the link to see the price. Yes, $120 for just a shield- and one that only fits on one brand helmet, is super pricey.
Not sure where you are getting $100 for an EXO-1000. My Sublim model was $300 but now on sale for $230 from most places and with only a few sizes, since it is discontinued. Plus you have to add another $20 for the dark sun shield. Maybe they are just desperate to dump old stock. The EXO-1100 replaces the 1000, and it is not SNELL certified, but ECE 22.05 instead. Seems to be otherwise all the same identical features, although some people report it is a different shape.
WARNING: Anyone looking at EXO-1000/1100 helmets- they run MUCH smaller than HJC and other helmets I have owned and I had to jump TWO sizes larger to get one that would fit.
I got my first couple of EXO-1000's from Sportbiketrackgear.com when they had a sale for $109 shipped. I bought two and since then I have bought two more for about $120 shipped off ebay from bike shops that were closing them out. I think I have been lucky finding sales but if you look hard enough and are patient you should be able to come up with some deals like I did. And you are right on the money about jumping one and maybe even two sizes with the EXO-1000.
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I also will not own a helmet without the flip down. The convenience of it is priceless. I have the Scorpion 900 and am looking to get a second flip up, Caberg Sintesi or Schuberth C3, both have the flip down also
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I also will not own a helmet without the flip down. The convenience of it is priceless. I have the Scorpion 900 and am looking to get a second flip up, Caberg Sintesi or Schuberth C3, both have the flip down also
I didn't know Caberg was imported again. I would be a bit cautious with them, since they seem to come and go in the US. I had Justissimio years ago... you couldn't get parts for it after they disappeared form the US market.
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My WileyX sunglasses fit fine under my drop-down visor - there is quite a bit of space between the tinted visor and my eyes, and wind still gets in them without sunglasses.
One complain I've heard of is that the visors sometimes don't come down far enough, and cut across your vision.
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My Shark Evoline I, a couple years old, has a drop down sun shield that barely covers the bottom of the eyes. Love the versatility of the helmet but the sun shield is a drawback. The Evoline II has a more useful drop down.
My Bell Revolver, a month old, has a fantastic sun shield, drops down to bottom of nose, with a notch for the nose. Fills entire view on all axis, look like Darth Rider.
Both helmets easily accommodate glasses. Shark I does not easily accept earphones ( no ear cutout), mic no problem. Shark II has ear cutouts, plenty of room for mic with sun shield/ chin bar. Bell easily accommodates earphones, using open face mic with foam, no interference from helmet chin bar and sun shield mechanism. Some folks might find the mic a little close to lips, when directly centered, very slight offset to left/right fixes that issue if you get tired of kissing the foam.
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A drop down feature would be nice but I probably wouldn't use it that much. During the Summer months I just go with a medium smoke visor, and it's still light enough to see well enough in the dark. In the Winter months, 90% of my riding is in the dark anyway so I just go with a clear (I ride to work and go home in the dark.) I just put sunglasses on for the occasional daytime ride.
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I wear a dark smoke visor and sunglasses during full daylight, otherwise, I feel like I am getting too much brightness. I go to work at 8:30, so even when the days are getting shorter, it is full light out when I ride in. I also go to the gym over mid-afternoon.
It is dark when I come home in the winter, so I have switch to a clear shield and only wear sunglasses, or ride home with the visor up and some clear glasses. The drop down visor + sunglasses functions as well as the smoke shield + glasses on my old helmet, and I can ride home with the visor down, and no sunglasses in the dark.
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That is a neat idea and application! But I fear that like transitions-style glasses, they will either neither get fully clear nor go dark enough. That is one reason I stopped wearing that type of glasses. The main reasons were because they don't work in cars and they take so long to go from dark back to light. Neither of those reasons matter with a motorcycle shield, though.
I wonder why it is not more widely available?
Well, from my experience of owning both, these photochromatic shields actually get slightly darker than the drop down smoked shield that comes with the EXO-1000. Also, it is perfectly clear in low light. I have all 5 of my helmets sitting next to me on a shelf and it looks no different than any of the others with clear shields.
The main thing that sets it apart from drop down shields is that the optics are much better. I wear glasses, so optics are important. With a drop down shield, I have 3 layers of plastic to look through. With the transitions, I have 2. Also, it offers FULL sun protection. With the drop down shield, you still have bright light leaking around the sides and near the bridge of the nose. Finally, it transitions automatically. There's no having to mess with a switch when you go in and out of shade coverage.
I was also hesitant about purchasing it because of the price. However, having owned it for a full ridding season, I would replace it in a heartbeat if it ever got damaged. No longer do I have to carry spare shields or have to fiddle with a drop down visor (which makes a helmet thicker than it needs to be). I wear the transition shield in the daytime and nighttime.
You are correct about sizing. Scorpion helmets run 1 - 1.5 sizes smaller than most helmets. My EXO-1000 is a size 3x and it's slightly tighter than my 2x RS-1. Also, I can fit easily into a 1x Shoei Quest/RS-1100. Bang for the buck, Scorpion helmets are hard to beat. I own 2 of them :).
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I didn't know Caberg was imported again. I would be a bit cautious with them, since they seem to come and go in the US. I had Justissimio years ago... you couldn't get parts for it after they disappeared form the US market.
The full line is not being imported yet. There is a decision coming soon on bringing in the top end Sintesi. The second generation model received excellent reviews on webbikeworld. If they are not available when I am ready to buy, I will have it shipped across the pond from 1 of 2 big dealers in the UK. Parts are available from them also.
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My concern, touched on above, is the travel distance of the inner visor.
I've tried several helmets, and all but one had visors that stopped at a point that were too high for me. The one that DID come down further was an uncomfortable helmet.
For those who like the inner visors::: How does the bottom align in your vision? If it stops a bit high, does it distract you?
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Well, from my experience of owning both, these photochromatic shields actually get slightly darker than the drop down smoked shield that comes with the EXO-1000.
Then I would call them a total failure because I think the stock EXO-1000 drop-down sun visor was much, much too light and had to immediately replace that "light smoke" one with a "dark smoke".
The main thing that sets it apart from drop down shields is that the optics are much better. I wear glasses, so optics are important. With a drop down shield, I have 3 layers of plastic to look through.
That is very true. Since I am not wearing glasses, it is just 2 for me. However, I was actually surprised that there are less distortion issues than I thought there would be.
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For those who like the inner visors::: How does the bottom align in your vision? If it stops a bit high, does it distract you?
Well, I already complained that the one in the EXO-1000 doesn't go down quite far enough (IMHO) and has a meaningless/unnecessary nose cutout. I believe it is the identical design used on all Scorpion helmet models. At first it was a bit distracting, but I quickly adapted to it. If my head is looking forward, then casting my eyes down, most of the lower dash is not behind the tint.
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Then I would call them a total failure because I think the stock EXO-1000 drop-down sun visor was much, much too light and had to immediately replace that "light smoke" one with a "dark smoke".
That is very true. Since I am not wearing glasses, it is just 2 for me. However, I was actually surprised that there are less distortion issues than I thought there would be.
So, it's a complete failure because it's darker than stock and you don't want darker?
IMHO, the drop down shield of the EXO line is failure because it's optically inferior, offers no UV protection, has no fog protective coating and doesn't even cover your LOS properly.
The positive reviews on Revzilla and WBW seem to suggest that the SOLFX shields are well worth the price. Bell had an exclusive agreement with them last year, but I think they are starting to release shields for other helmets now.
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So, it's a complete failure because it's darker than stock and you don't want darker?
??? You said the chromatic (transitions) shield was SLIGHTLY darker than the Scorpion stock drop-down. I said that is a failure, then, because the stock Scorpion's "light smoke" is MUCH too light (not slightly) so I had to replace it with a dark smoke- an option not available with the "transitions" style. This shows the chromatic tint is just like glasses, it just doesn't get very dark. For those used to a dark tint, it just wouldn't work. My wording might have been a bit strong (mostly since I had that fight for years with glasses).
IMHO, the drop down shield of the EXO line is failure because it's optically inferior, offers no UV protection, has no fog protective coating and doesn't even cover your LOS properly.
1) Optically inferior to what? To a tinted main shield? Looks fine to me. It is made of the same material.
2) It does offer UV protection. Why do you think it doesn't?
3) It most certainly does have fog protection- "Scorpion helmet Speedview Sunvisors feature the EverClear no-fog coating. EverClear is a thermally bonded anti-fog coating that protects against the build up of fog on the inside of the face shield." Same as the main shield.
4) What is a "LOS"?
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??? You said the chromatic (transitions) shield was SLIGHTLY darker than the Scorpion stock drop-down. I said that is a failure, then, because the stock Scorpion's "light smoke" is MUCH too light (not slightly) so I had to replace it with a dark smoke- an option not available with the "transitions" style. This shows the chromatic tint is just like glasses, it just doesn't get very dark. For those used to a dark tint, it just wouldn't work. My wording might have been a bit strong (mostly since I had that fight for years with glasses).
1) Optically inferior to what? To a tinted main shield? Looks fine to me. It is made of the same material.
2) It does offer UV protection. Why do you think it doesn't?
3) It most certainly does have fog protection- "Scorpion helmet Speedview Sunvisors feature the EverClear no-fog coating. EverClear is a thermally bonded anti-fog coating that protects against the build up of fog on the inside of the face shield." Same as the main shield.
4) What is a "LOS"?
1. Optically inferior for the purposes I described above. For the same reasons I cannot use pinlock shields.
2. I was wrong about this. I guess by nature of the material, plastic face shield offers ~95% UV A-B protection against sunlight.
3. I may be wrong about this too, but I find that my drop down shield fogs up very easily in cold/damp weather. I assumed it wasn't coated for this reason.
4. Line of sight
The only reason I'm defending the shield is that without trying one, you have no idea of what you're missing. I've had my fair share of transitional lenses and they are NOTHING like the coating used on this shield. Anyways, carry on. I'm done trying to introduce a new product that others and I have found superior.
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The only reason I'm defending the shield is that without trying one, you have no idea of what you're missing. I've had my fair share of transitional lenses and they are NOTHING like the coating used on this shield. Anyways, carry on. I'm done trying to introduce a new product that others and I have found superior.
You are taking this discussion far too personally/seriously. :o
I, for one, found the information you originally posted about the photochromatic shield to be useful, relevant, and interesting. The fact that it doesn't get dark enough that makes it useless for MY purposes doesn't make it any less interesting or useful to other people might not care that it doesn't get much darker than "light smoke" (well, and can afford it and have one of the few helmets for which it is available).
"Superior" is in the eye of the beholder :) Many factors come into play that doesn't make one solution overall "better" or "worse", just different. There are many advantages and disadvantages to each sun-blocking technology offered. I am glad you have something you are satisfied with! I know how many disappointments I have with all kinds of things I have purchased. Hopefully this thread will give valuable information to others so they can make informed purchasing decisions as to what will best meet their needs.
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My concern, touched on above, is the travel distance of the inner visor.
I've tried several helmets, and all but one had visors that stopped at a point that were too high for me. The one that DID come down further was an uncomfortable helmet.
For those who like the inner visors::: How does the bottom align in your vision? If it stops a bit high, does it distract you?
For me, HJC SyMax 2, the drop down visor does drop down far enough to clear my line of sight. The visor has three positions and it works fine for me.
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Question...below where the drop down tinted shield covers your lower face you are more exposed to the sun. Anyone have issues with sun burn during hot sunny days?
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Question...below where the drop down tinted shield covers your lower face you are more exposed to the sun. Anyone have issues with sun burn during hot sunny days?
I rarely ride with my main visor in the open position, maybe cracked a bit but never wide open, so no.
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Question...below where the drop down tinted shield covers your lower face you are more exposed to the sun. Anyone have issues with sun burn during hot sunny days?
I'm fairly sure that even the clear shields have UVA and UVB protection that should prevent, or at least reduce, getting your face sunburned. I don't recall ever having mine get burned back in my clear shield days.
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I rode from Denver to Junction, TX one day on my Wing... pretty much visor up all the way, it was summer and my Nolan N102 wasn't the coolest venting helmet in the world. When I checked into the motel in Junction, I had a nice shade of red on my face.... wasn't sunburned to a crisp, but it was close. Might have had a shade of wind burn too.
You would think I'd had learned from all of these years to at least flip the shield down a bit to at least block the UV rays from toasting the skin, nope. I even carry some skin cream for my face per Dermatologist, and didn't even put that on... idiot! Lesson learned.
Pretty much all clear shields on any helmet worth it's salt these days do block UVA/UVB rays.
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Question...below where the drop down tinted shield covers your lower face you are more exposed to the sun. Anyone have issues with sun burn during hot sunny days?
I am about as white as they come (fair skin/easy burn... hey, who are you calling whitey??!!) and I have not had any problem with that. I suppose it is theoretically possible, the angles would have to be pretty perfect and stay that way for a while to do any damage. But even the main clear shield is going to block most of the UV...
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The only point not covered in the previous threads is that in order for the helmet to accomdate the sun visor that retracts into the helmet, you have to sacrifice space and that means the protective material. I like the idea if the visor, I agree that depending on the make and model the quality of the visor itself makes the optical qualities a concern.
Still a good idea but enough concerns for me that I have yet to buy one. I like the transition shielf but the price is a shocker. For now I will stick with my Shoei Multi-tec or my full face Arai.
D
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The only point not covered in the previous threads is that in order for the helmet to accomdate the sun visor that retracts into the helmet, you have to sacrifice space and that means the protective material.
No, I did address that in a previous post. http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4940.msg56937#msg56937 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4940.msg56937#msg56937)
I said it is possible the helmet shell is a few mm larger to accommodate the slot without removing any foam. Yes, it requires space. No, that does not necessarily mean they stole it from the inside foam or that it sacrifices safety.
Still a good idea but enough concerns for me that I have yet to buy one.
SNELL 2005 certified in my case....