Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Pynikal on May 16, 2011, 05:33:29 PM
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I took delivery of my 2011 ABS about 3-4 weeks ago and i am totally in love with it, but this one weird thing is happening in the past week. Ride the bike to work so its sitting all day, start the bike after work let it run on the side stand while i gear up, 3-4 mins, putt through the parking lot and get to the street, turn out give it moderate throttle and she smokes like a freight train for about 5-6 seconds :o :o. a co-worker was behind me when i pulled out and he told me about it the next day. i saw it in the mirror as well and thought it seemed very weird considering the bike only at that time had 1500 on it. it ran fine on the way home. next time i started it nothing like that happened. i thought odd things happen who knows. this morning i start it and it smokes alot for like 5-6 seconds than dies down to a normal level (it was 39 degrees this morning so i understand some vapor out of the pipe.) than tonight bike sat at work all day on the side stand, went through the same routine runs for 3-4 mins i go. smoked like a freight train again! while its warming up it seems to run a little rough but smooths out with unloaded throttle and NO smoke. and its not like it smokes all the time just on first loaded throttle of the ride. the bike now has 1950 miles on it and i am getting ready to do the second service.
its not like i beat the crap out of the bike or anything, i can count on one hand the times that i have gotten into it; i want the bike to last me, didnt go over 4500rpm for the first 600 miles changed the oil and diff at 600. oil level is dead on, i have checked and checked this thinking i over filled. i am at a loss here............. :-\
any help is very welcome.
thanks guys.
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Color of smoke?
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bluish white
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You're burning oil from somewhere. BMWs used to have this problem from sitting on the sidestand too much (more than 10 minutes).
It's under warranty. Take it to the dealer. Of course, they won't be able to replicate the problem . . . >:(
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May be oil in the airbox, might also have an overfilled crankcase?
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Bluish white could be simple over filled crankcase hopefully something simple could be valve seals but as others advise under warranty take it to the dealer....
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It is condensation and perfectly normal. As the exhaust system cools, it draws water into it and that water condenses against the cooling metal. When the vehicle is started again, the head drives the water into steam and you see the vapor exiting the muffler.
Nothing to worry about. If you are really concerned, note the crankcase oil level and see if it is going down.
All internal combustion vehicles do this although it is more obvious in the winter when the water vapor cannot be easily absorbed by the atmosphere and leaves plumes behind.
Brian
I took delivery of my 2011 ABS about 3-4 weeks ago and i am totally in love with it, but this one weird thing is happening in the past week.
<snipped description>
any help is very welcome.
thanks guys.
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Condensation dissipates almost immediately and is white.
Oil burning smoke is blue/white and lingers then blows away.
Determine which it is first then take it to the dealer if its the later.
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It is condensation and perfectly normal. As the exhaust system cools, it draws water into it and that water condenses against the cooling metal. When the vehicle is started again, the head drives the water into steam and you see the vapor exiting the muffler.
Nothing to worry about. If you are really concerned, note the crankcase oil level and see if it is going down.
All internal combustion vehicles do this although it is more obvious in the winter when the water vapor cannot be easily absorbed by the atmosphere and leaves plumes behind.
Brian
thank you sir but, i understand that in the morning when its in the 30s but in the afternoon when its 75 degrees out side?! and its not like water vapor smoke, its heavy bluish white smoke and it sticks around for a while.
just to be sure how much oil are you guys putting in this thing. last service i put right at 4 qrts in mine.
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thank you sir but, i understand that in the morning when its in the 30s but in the afternoon when its 75 degrees out side?! and its not like water vapor smoke, its heavy bluish white smoke and it sticks around for a while.
just to be sure how much oil are you guys putting in this thing. last service i put right at 4 qrts in mine.
4 quarts + 17 ounces with a filter change is how much oil is supposed to be added IIRC. I really don't think your oil level is what is causing the issue.
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Yep, condensation burn- off may still be normal depending on what the humidity is. If it is quite humid, the water vapor cannot be driven into the air quickly enough.
As to the blue tint, I am just kind of ignoring that. It <might> be crankcase oil but I doubt it.
Smell the white smoke and see what it smells like. Oil will have a very heavy, thick smell and of course it will smell like oil. Anti freeze will smell sweet. Gasoline will smell like a sharp chemical odor but of course smoke caused by gas (way too rich a mixture) is black, not white or blue. Odds are the smoke has no particular odor again indicating nothing but steam.
Fill the crankcase so the oil level is somewhere between the min / max lines or at least somewhere in the sight glass. The oil level is not critical in causing an engine to burn oil anyway; simply raising the oil level a bit (still somewhere w/in the sight glass) would not cause excessive oil consumption.
Finally, note the volume of oil and anti- freeze over time (weeks or 1,000's of miles). If you are not using appreciable amounts of either of those then there is nothing to worry about. Some oil consumption is considered normal but in actual usage, modern engines really don't use oil between changes.
Brian
thank you sir but, i understand that in the morning when its in the 30s but in the afternoon when its 75 degrees out side?! and its not like water vapor smoke, its heavy bluish white smoke and it sticks around for a while.
just to be sure how much oil are you guys putting in this thing. last service i put right at 4 qrts in mine.
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When an engine burns oil excessively it smokes cold or hot. If it is not excessive, it doesn't smoke cold or hot. If it smokes only when it is cold, it is condensation. Don't obsess over that stuff -- there's nothing you could do even if it was "burning oil" Neither would Kawasaki.
Ride it like you stole it........
BTW, It would have to be "overfilled" by several quarts (not ounces) of oil to begin smoking -- not probable.
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Yep, condensation burn- off may still be normal depending on what the humidity is. If it is quite humid, the water vapor cannot be driven into the air quickly enough.
As to the blue tint, I am just kind of ignoring that. It <might> be crankcase oil but I doubt it.
Smell the white smoke and see what it smells like. Oil will have a very heavy, thick smell and of course it will smell like oil. Anti freeze will smell sweet. Gasoline will smell like a sharp chemical odor but of course smoke caused by gas (way too rich a mixture) is black, not white or blue. Odds are the smoke has no particular odor again indicating nothing but steam.
Fill the crankcase so the oil level is somewhere between the min / max lines or at least somewhere in the sight glass. The oil level is not critical in causing an engine to burn oil anyway; simply raising the oil level a bit (still somewhere w/in the sight glass) would not cause excessive oil consumption.
Finally, note the volume of oil and anti- freeze over time (weeks or 1,000's of miles). If you are not using appreciable amounts of either of those then there is nothing to worry about. Some oil consumption is considered normal but in actual usage, modern engines really don't use oil between changes.
Brian
Where's Chebornek when you need him.... It's actually much better to collect the gases in a large plastic bag. That way you get more to smell and have an easier time determining origin.
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"its not like i beat the crap out of the bike or anything, i can count on one hand the times that i have gotten into it; i want the bike to last me,"
These engines are designed and built to spin fast. It is certainly possible to baby it too much.
Go out somewhere safe and run that motor up to redline and also do some hefty downhill throttle closed decel or slowing down without brakes. Do this a few times with some regular riding in between to cool the bike back down again. Remember to do this in a safe place such as in a hilly area. Pick say second gear and let it rev to redline in a fairly gentle way, no need to pull wheelies! This will help to seat the rings by both ring pressure from accel and decel. In my exp. most recently It took about 90 miles of serious (by the manual) riding for the rings to seal.
I am IN NO WAY endorsing this idea running around the net to go out and beat the crap out of a brand new motor! But you do need to operate it occasionally in a spirited manner.
Fretka
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Oh yeah! The thread about collecting the exhaust of a C-14 in a garbage bag. Priceless. I think it was Roland who started that one. I came up with the top list of excuses you could give a curious neighbor of he / she caught you with a bag over the exhaust pipe with the bike running. The first one was 'The bike isn't running right and Kawasaki wants a stool sample.'
Good times.
Brian
Where's Chebornek when you need him.... It's actually much better to collect the gases in a large plastic bag. That way you get more to smell and have an easier time determining origin.
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Yep....
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My bike has a slight oil leak on the left side of the valve cover. So when it is cold outside it will smoke for a while upon start up. My 2004 z1000 and my wifes 2005 z1000 both had the same problem. It doesnt leak enough to worry me though.
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Zx14's had an issue with oil weeping from the camcover. You may have a slight leak when cold that once hot, tightens and stops.
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well i changed the oild and diff lube last night so we will see if the problem persists or if it hangs around. i just find it weird that a brand new bike is beltching heavy smoke like this. we will see.
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well i changed the oild and diff lube last night so we will see if the problem persists or if it hangs around. i just find it weird that a brand new bike is beltching heavy smoke like this. we will see.
I don't think it's right either...can you take a movie of it?
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It is condensation and perfectly normal. As the exhaust system cools, it draws water into it and that water condenses against the cooling metal. When the vehicle is started again, the head drives the water into steam and you see the vapor exiting the muffler.
Nothing to worry about. If you are really concerned, note the crankcase oil level and see if it is going down.
All internal combustion vehicles do this although it is more obvious in the winter when the water vapor cannot be easily absorbed by the atmosphere and leaves plumes behind.
Brian
+1
flying luggage or exploding drive shaft thread next please (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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+1
flying luggage or exploding drive shaft thread next please (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
Steve, just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist for another rider...
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Steve, just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist for another rider...
I can't disagree, just stirring the pot (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
and honestly I've been expecting something lately
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No way that is condensation...........did you also pull the air filter, and or take a look in the airbox?
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No way that is condensation...........did you also pull the air filter, and or take a look in the airbox?
nope, i guess i could do that tonight. after i wipe all the rain off it when i get home.....its gonna be a wet ride home.
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No way that is condensation...........did you also pull the air filter, and or take a look in the airbox?
if it was oil you'd more than likely see it all the time. i should submit a vid of all my bikes on a nice humid FL day after they haven't been started for a while :P
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ok, bookmarked this thread. Looking forward to seeing what this is (and may even check my panniers for looseness) (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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if it was oil you'd more than likely see it all the time.
Not necessarily. Some BMWs long had a problem where if the bike was left on the sidestand for an extended period of time, oil would pool and then be sucked into the cylinder and burned on start up. I don't remember the years or models, but it was a known problem. BMW eventually fixed whatever needed fixing to prevent it. Sounds similar to this situation.
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True but only the first generation K bikes, or 'bricks' from BMW had that problem and only then because the cylinders were horizontal and pointed 'down' when the bike was on the sidestand. It was a unique situation like the lower two cylinders on an aircraft radial engine and not the norm on virtually anything else.
It is possible that the original poster really has an internal engine problem but my experience says it is nothing but condensation. Of course he could have a cracked piston, cracked rings, missing valve guides and on and on but before I would even consider anything internal, I would check to see how much internal fluid is being used. My advice would be to NOT take anything apart 'inspecting' for this problem until there was some evidence that it was oil, or anti- freeze in the exhaust vapor.
Brian
Not necessarily. Some BMWs long had a problem where if the bike was left on the sidestand for an extended period of time, oil would pool and then be sucked into the cylinder and burned on start up. I don't remember the years or models, but it was a known problem. BMW eventually fixed whatever needed fixing to prevent it. Sounds similar to this situation.
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try holding a piece of paper at the exhaust and let the exhuast gas condensate.
you should be able to tell what type of fluid is left on the paper.
anti-freeze smell's like maple syrup
Of course you could just use a garbage bag to collect the exhaust....
Bill
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And then go to every single person you know, have them smell inside your bag, and guess what it smells like. Great idea Bill!
;D
Brian
<snip>
Of course you could just use a garbage bag to collect the exhaust....
Bill
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well i left work today and nothing.....temp was about 65 degrees and humid.
i must have had the oil level just enough over full to cause this.......weird.
ill keep an eye on it to see it the problem is totally gone. thanks for all your input guys!
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well i left work today and nothing.....temp was about 65 degrees and humid.
i must have had the oil level just enough over full to cause this.......weird.
ill keep an eye on it to see it the problem is totally gone. thanks for all your input guys!
Seems that one Brian was right, and one Brian was wrong!!!!!! ;)
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(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/upinsmoke.jpg)
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I hope that works out for you but I really did suspect nothing major was wrong. The oil level would have to be tremendously high to cause enough oil in the exhaust and even then that probably would not happen.
Usually there are quite a few symptoms and more than a couple of problems before oil consumption becomes apparent in the color of the exhaust.
Brian
well i left work today and nothing.....temp was about 65 degrees and humid.
i must have had the oil level just enough over full to cause this.......weird.
ill keep an eye on it to see it the problem is totally gone. thanks for all your input guys!