Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: Silver Connie on September 05, 2011, 08:38:52 PM
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i cant get a screwdriver or pin punch to catch the lip of the bearing through the axle hole. any other tricks? i hope i dont need a pilot bearing puller cuz mines broken.
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I use a tire iron cut off square and clean using an abrasive wheel, the edges must be sharp and square as shown in the photo
tool end that contacts bearing
(http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/46598/2158439240015463693S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2158439240015463693quIuOS)
slide it down untill it catches lip on bearing, then smack the punch sideways to displace the spacer, smack it a bunch of times, sideways in one spot and hold the punch
(http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/2627/2366812200015463693S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2366812200015463693VrvIdT)
then, keeping pressure on the punch sideways in theat position, smack down hard on the end of the punch,
(http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/46732/2077890360015463693S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2077890360015463693PjGWMT)
repeat both sequences, untill you get the bearing to move, and then you can get to the lip easier.
if you are doing the front, start with the side opposite the speedo gear in the UP position, there is a bit more room knocking the speedo side bearing out as far as spacer tilt goes.
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When I swallowed my pride and asked at a decent local shop, they took the wheel and $20 later I returned my useless bearing puller that cost much more.
Just a thought, and my results may not be typical.
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Amen brother! ;)
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When it comes to removing wheel bearings there is absolutely no better tool than BRUTE FORCE and the heaviest punch that you can get yo grab the inner edge of the bearing; no namby pamby tapping will do here you've got to really hit the punch to get the job done.
Myself I use a heavy drift punch that I managed to bend ever so slightly to which this really helps it catch the inner bearing race.
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There's a spacer tube between the bearings. If you haven't already, give it a crank sideways to expose the bearing lip.
Then bash with your favourite hammer and drift.
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In case you didn't notice, there is a circlip on each bearing (one holds the speedo drive receiver). I've seen one be missed.
If you enter from opposite the speedo drive side there is a bit of a whallowed out were you can push the drift more for bite than you can doing it from the other side. You don't get much bite, so the drift will usually slip off with each (or so many) hits.
I bang them hard too, but I also keep working my drift around about 1/3d of the hole. This way I'm not jamming my bearing by cocking it sideways, but working it 1/3d at a time partially out.
Pop the new bearings in the freezer so they go in easier.
I also grease the outer edge of mine. Some have said this is not good, but ever since the first replacement, which were almost impossible to free up and get out, the next two changes almost hurt me as the bearing came out so easily (I didn't need the force). I even had a friend come to help me the second time I hanged them, telling him it took me a lot of patience to get them out. Bam, out one falls, and he laughed. FWIW
Mark
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Forgot to mention. If you have a means, grind the inside of the spacer on each end so that it is sorta oval shaped in there. The spacer is there for width, not axle, so the hole in it does not matter. If you can get the oval like shape going it gives you a bit of a wide area to use if a next time comes about.
Mark
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i like the idea of making a relief point on the spacer. ive seen that on other spacers. i did see the circlips and removed them. ill take the punch to the grinder and try to put a slight bow in it also.
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If needed you can also insert some type of tool or dowel in the opposite side to help hold the punch end against the lip of the bearing.
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grinding special tools, bending punches, etc is a waste. the tool I described, is about as cheap as it can be, a chopped off tire iron. The instructions and sequence I showed above, allowed the person in the photos I shot, to effectivly remove the bearings..... that person happened to be my wife, who i got to assist me when I shot the instructions for the Concourier artical "Shake, Rattle, and Roll"...... if she could accomplish the job with those tools, anyone can. ::)
forget about buying a $20 tapered punch, the taper is actually a deficit in this tool/procedure, and does not allow the punch to be shifted correctly to force the spacer sideways when struck to offset it.
as Tony noted, light wristed tappy-tapping will not suffice, you have to smack the thing, both sideways to offset the spacer, and then downwards to dislodge the bearing..
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I've used my dremel cut off wheel after the shop left the outer race in place. BUT, just as important, did you find a way to get the new bearings in place without damage? I've found my dirtbike bearings will last much longer if I am able to use as little force as possible to seat them.
My go to anymore is to heat the hub with a propane torch and cool the bearing with dry ice. It will usually fall into place without using anything. I do have a plastic punch that will help as long as the temp difference is there.
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thanks for the pics but i cant view them on my phone. i dont have a computer. i had a five dollar set of chinese roll pin punches i used one to fashion a tappered edge on then hardened it by heating with torch and quenching it. then i got the bfh out and went to work. jobs done wheels back on and youre not going to believe this; i managed to get the tire off and new one on the rim with wheel weights left on it, lined up the balance mark with the air valve, runs out fine. no wobble at any speed or with no hands. one in a million. ill keep an eye on tread wear. i have some shot i can put in and take the weights off if things go awry. this thing rides like a new bike. funny how you get used to the irregularities of a bad tire then get a good one and notice how much better it is. thanks again for the help.
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Good to hear you made it work.
Nice wording on the old to new tire. I shake my head when someone says "I put on the new XX and they are so much better than YY, I'll never use those again". I'll ask, "You remember how the YY felt when you put it on?" The answer... "No, but they are so different than the new one feels".
uh, DUH. Ok, I'll be nice... "I hope a brand new tire feels better than a worn out one" ;)
Mark
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I lucked into a method...
I was trying to hold a tapered punch in place against the bearing edge, with a large tapered cold chisel from the outer side. A couple of whacks later, of course it slipped off the bearing, wedging itself HARD against the cold chisel, I smacked it again in anger, AND STARTED THE BEARING OUT. Yippee! A few smacks later I was at the vise hammering the old bearing off the 2 wedged in tapered chisels. Worked well.
I then filed a rebate on the inside of the center spacer to allow room for a punch= easy removal next time. (I think credit goes to man of blues for the rebate idea...)
Regards,
KenE
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I think saving money is good but saving time is somtimes better if it doesn't cost all that much. I'm suprised nobody mentioned a commercial bearing puller. It took me all of about 30 seconds to pull my bearings with no toil, brute force, swearing, or scraped knuckles. OK, $50 may be a bit much for some, but it will last forever, and it comes with many different sizes.
http://pitposse.com/whbereset.html (http://pitposse.com/whbereset.html)
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I lucked into a method...
I was trying to hold a tapered punch in place against the bearing edge, with a large tapered cold chisel from the outer side. A couple of whacks later, of course it slipped off the bearing, wedging itself HARD against the cold chisel, I smacked it again in anger, AND STARTED THE BEARING OUT. Yippee! A few smacks later I was at the vise hammering the old bearing off the 2 wedged in tapered chisels. Worked well.
I then filed a rebate on the inside of the center spacer to allow room for a punch= easy removal next time. (I think credit goes to man of blues for the rebate idea...)
Regards,
KenE
Yeah, i printed the part about cutting a relief notch in the artical...
I have to say you stumbled onto sumthin there when you explain the 2 chisels and what occured......me like that, as soon as you said that I got the mental picture of what took place, and it sounds interesting.... I may give that method a test out on a spare rim I have, and report back on it...really does sound simple and effective......even an old phart like me learns things sometimes, and that sounds like a keeper!!!! ;) I wish I'da thunk that one up!! :thumbs: :thumbs: :goodpost: :thumbs:
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Go to your local Autozone and borrow a blind bearing puller. It's free and makes the job super easy.
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grinding special tools, bending punches, etc is a waste. the tool I described, is about as cheap as it can be, a chopped off tire iron. The instructions and sequence I showed above, allowed the person in the photos I shot, to effectivly remove the bearings..... that person happened to be my wife, who i got to assist me when I shot the instructions for the Concourier artical "Shake, Rattle, and Roll"...... if she could accomplish the job with those tools (http://www.robustbuy.com/tools-tool-kits-c-514_844_1018.html), anyone can. ::)
forget about buying a $20 tapered punch, the taper is actually a deficit in this tool/procedure, and does not allow the punch to be shifted correctly to force the spacer sideways when struck to offset it.
as Tony noted, light wristed tappy-tapping will not suffice, you have to smack the thing, both sideways to offset the spacer, and then downwards to dislodge the bearing..
You have instructed is on those capture. I have understand your prospective. And i am forgetting to bye $20 tapered punch.
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The first time, struggle, bend several implements, swear lots and generally get stressed and huffy.
However, one the bearings are out, take the central spacer tube and cut a Slot in one end with an angle grinder.
Clean up the edges and refit with new bearings.
The next time ya come to change bearings there is a nice slot that lets you get purchase on the inner race and you can hammer the bearing out.
Personally I cut a slot across both sides of each end of the spacer.
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Go to your local Autozone and borrow a blind bearing puller. It's free and makes the job super easy.
This person thinks like me, thanks for the info.
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When it comes to removing wheel bearings there is absolutely no better tool than BRUTE FORCE and the heaviest punch that you can get yo grab the inner edge of the bearing; no namby pamby tapping will do here you've got to really hit the punch to get the job done.
Myself I use a heavy drift punch that I managed to bend ever so slightly to which this really helps it catch the inner bearing race.
+1
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I replace these babys every 25K....as I recall, one side comes out WAY easier than the other....I have to 'rediscover' which one it is every time.
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I replace these babys every 25K....as I recall, one side comes out WAY easier than the other....I have to 'rediscover' which one it is every time.
Why? The stock bearings should be good for 75k if you do not grease them.A good pair of bearings for example Timkins will last even longer.
Grease them periodically and you can get over 160k.
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My stock front bearings failed at 49,500 miles. Regreased at 20,000 and again at 40,000. Every time I had the wheel off, actually. Exploded on a hot day.
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Why? The stock bearings should be good for 75k if you do not grease them.A good pair of bearings for example Timkins will last even longer.
Grease them periodically and you can get over 160k.
If you have been able to get that kind of mileage out of the Front Wheel bearings on a 2nd generation C-10, consider yourself very lucky. I could get 60,000 miles or better on my old 86, the 2000 and 2006 have always managed to start feeling a little rough at around 40,000 miles.
I check by closely at every tire change and change them out when I feel any irregularity. I've not heard of anyone getting the kind of mileage your speaking of on and 2nd gen C-10.
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Regreasing bearings can cause more problems than it cures. Best to use the sealed for life bearings with rubber seals both sides and leave them alone.
Regards, Russell
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Regreasing bearings can cause more problems than it cures. Best to use the sealed for life bearings with rubber seals both sides and leave them alone.
Dat's my thoughts too... Buy quality name brand bearings that are not made in China...
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I replace these babys every 25K.....
This is what I am going to do now. The front bearings died at 38,000 and now at 63,000 they are dead again. I replaced them with bearing from Murph, so I know they were quality replacements. I put new ones in the front (3rd pair for the bike) and new in the rear (2nd for the bike) this morning and it rides much better. More stable and smoother. I think I read somewhere that the 2nd generation concours had bearings that were too small for the weight of the bike on the front so they wear out quickly.
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I think I read somewhere that the 2nd generation concours had bearings that were too small for the weight of the bike on the front so they wear out quickly.
That's correct the front bearings changed from '94 onwards.
Regards, Russell
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Why? The stock bearings should be good for 75k if you do not grease them.A good pair of bearings for example Timkins will last even longer.
Grease them periodically and you can get over 160k.
Well, others have clarified this - but I do alot of long pass baggin session in the mountains which is tough on a bearing, my 1st set failed at 26K, the bearings are so damned cheap from the local bearing house, and its 2 EZ a job - so I do it about every 25K. I get FAG bearings here usually.
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86-93 front wheel bearings are 6302/2RS
Inside Diameter:15mm
Outside Diameter:42mm
Width:13mm
94-06 front wheel bearings are 6203/2RS
Inside Diameter:17mm
Outside Diameter:40mm
Width:12mm
Do not get these confused. The 2RS bit means 2 rubber seals. The ZZ metal seal ones don't last as long.
The 94-06 bearings are a lot smaller and don't last anywhere near as long as the 86-93 ones.
Potentially you could get the 94-06 ones to last maybe 50k miles if ya never ride in the rain or in dusty areas.
Practically you will be replacing them after 25k miles.
The 86-93 bearings last a lot longer.
I have done over 80k miles on one set of SKF bearings and they were still in decent condition when I replaced them.
The OEMs last 50-60k miles.
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Guys, on the "sealed" bearings, I have a question. On the dirt bikes, I typically would get these new sealed bearings and open them up. It was easy t do with an exacto knife. Most often you woudl find almost no lube inside them. I'd then wash them out and dry the bearing. Add in some decent waterproof grease, then snap the seal back.
The bearings lasted a lot longer after doing this. I wonder if it woudl be a benefit to do with the streetbikes, too?
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Agreed. I use a dental tool so I don't damage the seal. Some folks think the dry ones work better, but I like to grease them every time they are apart.
saxman
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Guys, on the "sealed" bearings, I have a question. On the dirt bikes, I typically would get these new sealed bearings and open them up. It was easy t do with an exacto knife. Most often you woudl find almost no lube inside them. I'd then wash them out and dry the bearing. Add in some decent waterproof grease, then snap the seal back.
The bearings lasted a lot longer after doing this. I wonder if it woudl be a benefit to do with the streetbikes, too?
Agreed. I use a dental tool so I don't damage the seal. Some folks think the dry ones work better, but I like to grease them every time they are apart.
saxman
Regreasing bearings can cause more problems than it cures. Best to use the sealed for life bearings with rubber seals both sides and leave them alone.
Regards, Russell
Dat's my thoughts too... Buy quality name brand bearings that are not made in China...
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I will only use quality name brand rubber sealed bearings such as NTN, SKF and FAG in my wheels these are the very same bearing that I would install an an electric motor that once installed will perhaps run 24/7 service on board ship in any number of functions they will never be greased for the duration of their lifetime 5, 10, perhaps 15 or more years...
To each their own...
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I lucked into a method...
I was trying to hold a tapered punch in place against the bearing edge, with a large tapered cold chisel from the outer side. A couple of whacks later, of course it slipped off the bearing, wedging itself HARD against the cold chisel, I smacked it again in anger, AND STARTED THE BEARING OUT. Yippee! A few smacks later I was at the vise hammering the old bearing off the 2 wedged in tapered chisels. Worked well.
I then filed a rebate on the inside of the center spacer to allow room for a punch= easy removal next time. (I think credit goes to man of blues for the rebate idea...)
Regards,
KenE
Replying to an old post, with good news.
After struggling with many tools attempting to drive the front bearing out, I was about to go to the parts store to borrow a tool to remove the bearing when I remembered this accidental method stumbled upon by KenE.
I wedged a chisel that was almost the same size as the hole and large screwdriver coming from the other direction. With a few whacks on both ends they were locked together tightly. Once they are wedged together it only took 4 or 5 good whacks on the screwdriver and the bearing was out!!!! Thanks KenE!
Picture included of the wedged together tools.
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My original bearings were toast at 25K miles - now - at that time I was living in Europe doing 100mph on the highway and alot of mountain riding. Checked them at 50K....yep, done. At 70K now and gonna replace next time I get tires. They're cheap (enough) at the bearing house and the cost of replacing one that's good if far less than the cost of dealing with a failure......so.