Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: B.D.F. on August 14, 2011, 06:44:12 PM
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For anyone who remembers the bit of hoopla about some early C-14's driveshaft front splines 'clicking' when rotating- some were apparently getting out of the factory either without grease or without enough grease and the 'cure' for the noise was to lube the forward splines. There never was a problem but it did become a bit of a forum sensation for a while...
Last Tuesday I had the driveshaft out of a 2010 C-14 for exactly that reason, to check the forward splines. We were having a tech session and there was literally no one presenting any C-14's for any type of work so we pulled the driveshaft out of a second generation C-14 just for a 'look- see'. The forward splines had a very even and generous coat of moly past on the splines when it came apart so apparently Kawasaki has addressed that concern. Just my opinion but I do not think the forward part of the driveshaft will ever need any further attention for the life of the bike, and seeing as they are now being lubed from the factory, they should never require further attention or any kind of service. The splines are short and pinned in location upon assembly so movement is virtually impossible anyway.
Just wanted to pass that info. along.
Brian
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Thanks Brian!
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Yes that is good news. When I first heard of the problem I checked my 2010 and there was no clicking. But yesterday after doing some maintenance I rolled the rear tire while the bike was on the center stand and I did hear a "click" every once in a while. Now as I understand it "molly" is so fine that it actually will bond to the steel on a molecular level but only when it is applied on a heated part. But I still find it hard to believe that the molly grease in there will last the lifetime of the bike. After all the contact points will eventually be metal to metal with the grease laying just outside of the contact points. Just a thought.
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My 2010 will click when I push it out of the garage. A light, click, click, click, sound when I roll it out. Ride it 100 yards and no clicking ever heard again, until it sits over night. The tech looked at it and everything is tight, clips in place the whole deal. So I guess I won't worry about it. But it still gets to me to hear the clicking.
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Good to know, my spline is a '10 with over 41,000 miles.
Hey for the record the drive shaft has clicked since I bought it.
Every Kawi I've owned except this one had major leaks and rattle too, but they didn't have KiPass keeping them in check like my C14 does ;D
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First of all, the front splines could be lubed as often as an owner wanted to do it without any downside other than the time and / or cost. So there is certainly no reason to avoid doing it if you wanted to check / lube them now and then.
Molybdenum disulfide does indeed form very small molecules and that is the key to the way it lubricates. It gets in the ridges of the parent metal and is [just about] impossible to wipe away. Given the extremely small movement possible in the front spline to begin with, I do not believe there will every be enough mechanical movement to ever wipe away the moly lube in between the front splines of the driveshaft on a C-14.
Another thing that I think is very important to remember is that some particular noise does not mean anything is necessarily wrong. Mechanical contraptions make noise when they move and that is perfectly normal and expected. Somehow this issue of driveshafts 'clicking' on C-14's has become something far bigger than I think it is or ever was. That was basically the point of my post- I do not think there ever was a problem with the driveshafts on these bikes other than perhaps having been assembled dry (and that was not a big deal either, just not optimum perhaps), and even that minor issue has been corrected by the factory now.
The first casualty when humans gather is reason and that seems especially true if the gathering involves the internet. The second casualty seems to be physics and when those two failures are combined, a lot of people can get really fired up about things that never were an issue in the first place. Now I am not suggesting that we should not be absolutely terrified about something on our C-14s, but we might be better served if we stop worrying about the driveshaft exploding and put that valuable worry into something more important, like exactly how many drops of crankcase oil the bike really holds so that we are sure it is not overfull or under full by even one drop.... ;D
Brian
Yes that is good news. When I first heard of the problem I checked my 2010 and there was no clicking. But yesterday after doing some maintenance I rolled the rear tire while the bike was on the center stand and I did hear a "click" every once in a while. Now as I understand it "molly" is so fine that it actually will bond to the steel on a molecular level but only when it is applied on a heated part. But I still find it hard to believe that the molly grease in there will last the lifetime of the bike. After all the contact points will eventually be metal to metal with the grease laying just outside of the contact points. Just a thought.
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snip...
Now I am not suggesting that we should not be absolutely terrified about something on our C-14s, but we might be better served if we stop worrying about the driveshaft exploding and put that valuable worry into something more important, like exactly how many drops of crankcase oil the bike really holds so that we are sure it is not overfull or under full by even one drop.... ;D
Brian
Be sure to let us know once you get those drops counted Brian. :P
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Great info, thanks Brian!
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I do not think there ever was a problem with the driveshafts on these bikes other than perhaps having been assembled dry (and that was not a big deal either, just not optimum perhaps), and even that minor issue has been corrected by the factory now.
Brian,
There WERE a few bearing caps with loose retainers or NO retaining clips IIRC. A couple of those had catastrophic destruction too. I agree, it's wasn't a lot of failures but they were a concern for a while.
Mick
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Back when I had my vulcan 1600 classic this was part of my mantaince, every other oil change I would lube the front shaft. like you said, may not need it but it couldn't hurt!
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Yes, there were two instances of driveshaft problems that I am aware of: the first was the driveshaft that disassembled and removed itself from the bike (read: exploded)- that was a catastrophic failure although the rider was not injured and the bike did not crash. The second thing I remember was one person who had a C-14 where one of the driveshaft boots was cut by a loose and displaced 'C' clip from inside the trunion. No real harm done but that certainly would have gotten worse had it been ignored.
My point was that the internet hubbub that followed was all out of proportion. I believe we (C-14 owners) have a better chance of being stuck by lightening but we don't seem to be worried about that. I am all for discussing things, anticipating things and even speculating about possible future events. I just think that the Internet cries of panic set in a little too fast and then the flames are fanned by more and more people until the original events themselves are forgotten and buried in the new, internet 'truth' about the disaster de jour. This forum seems especially prone to it, at least compared with the few other motorcycle forums I pay any attention to at all. The major FJR forum has less whining and far more work- arounds and solutions, at least in my opinion.
In the end, by all means, check the driveshaft and anything else on the bike that is of concern. Use preventative maintenance and always try to catch problems early. If it is desirable to the particular owner, by all means lube the driveshaft and / or anything else on the bike.... and then let it go.
At least that was the point I was trying to make Mick. Not to minimize reality, just sticking fairly close to it.
Brian
Brian,
There WERE a few bearing caps with loose retainers or NO retaining clips IIRC. A couple of those had catastrophic destruction too. I agree, it's wasn't a lot of failures but they were a concern for a while.
Mick
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Just curious. . . I know you guys are talking about the front splines, but my new PR2's are due in tomorrow (to replace the stock tires) and I know I'm supposed to use some moly grease on the rear splines. What kind do you folks use and where can I find it? I have some tubes of Chevron high temp grease at work but it doesn't say anything about having moly in it.
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You want to use moly paste, not moly grease. The difference is the amount of moly content; moly grease (chassis grease with moly in it) is usually between 3% and 5% moly. Moly paste is a minimum of 50% moly content. If the package does not specify the amount of moly content then it is moly grease, not moly paste. Anything you find in WalMart, automotive supply stores, etc. will be moly grease, not moly paste.
The easiest moly paste to get is usually Honda moly paste 60, which contains 60% moly and is specifically intended to lubricate final drive splines on GoldWings. It comes in a small grease gun tube and is around $8 or $10 or so. Some Honda motorcycle dealers stock it but all can order it for you. You do not need a grease gun to use it though, just smear (technical term) a very small amount on the splines sticking out from the rear wheel hub. I use a Q- tip (cotton swap is the correct name I think) to get some grease between the teeth of the splines because that is where it is useful.
There are other brands of moly paste such as Loctite and Permetex but they can be harder to find. McMaster- Carr also carries the stuff but it can be a little hard to decipher the moly content of the products from their catalog. The MSDS sheet will always specify the moly (molybdenum disulfide) content though.
Brian
Just curious. . . I know you guys are talking about the front splines, but my new PR2's are due in tomorrow (to replace the stock tires) and I know I'm supposed to use some moly grease on the rear splines. What kind do you folks use and where can I find it? I have some tubes of Chevron high temp grease at work but it doesn't say anything about having moly in it.
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Mechanical contraptions make noise when they move and that is perfectly normal and expected.
Not just mechanical contraptions make clicking noises...
You should hear my knees after a long ride
:yikes:
Wonder if they make Molly pills?
worry into something more important, like exactly how many drops of crankcase oil the bike really holds so that we are sure it is not overfull or under full by even one drop.... ;D
Brian
Why do I get images of the old owl finding the center of a tootsie roll?
;D
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I use a Q- tip (cotton swap is the correct name I think) to get some grease between the teeth of the splines because that is where it is useful.
Brian
Cotton swab. I couldn't resist. :-X
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Yeah, I need a word checker in addition to a spell checker. 'Swap' was correctly spelled just not the word I meant to use. ;D
Brian
Cotton swab. I couldn't resist. :-X
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So in an all out effort to steal this thread, am I doing grievous damage to my rear splines by using molly grease every tire change? That works out to about every 10,000 or so miles. I'm on MY third set of tires. I honestly THOUGHT I was doing right. I'm going to the shop tomorrow.
Please forgive me oh God of the Kawasaki's, I didn't mean to do wrong... I repent....
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Yeah, I need a word checker in addition to a spell checker. 'Swap' was correctly spelled just not the word I meant to use. ;D
Brian
Your vocabulary and knowledge of physics and such; suggests that you know the difference between swob and swap......... ;)
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So in an all out effort to steal this thread, am I doing grievous damage to my rear splines by using molly grease every tire change? That works out to about every 10,000 or so miles. I'm on MY third set of tires. I honestly THOUGHT I was doing right. I'm going to the shop tomorrow.
Please forgive me oh God of the Kawasaki's, I didn't mean to do wrong... I repent....
I'll never repent....I'm staying with my wicked ways.
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FWIW...I picked up some 73% Moly paste from this site and applied it recently when I put my new Pirelli Angels on the bike: http://guarddogmolylubricants.com/gd570.shtml (http://guarddogmolylubricants.com/gd570.shtml)
Mines a 2010 and it was totally dry :yikes: Voila, no more clicking...YMMV :chugbeer:
Good to see the factory finally woke up and started doing this so we can move on to more important matters like solving world hunger and the deficit. ;D
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So in an all out effort to steal this thread, am I doing grievous damage to my rear splines by using molly grease every tire change? That works out to about every 10,000 or so miles. I'm on MY third set of tires. I honestly THOUGHT I was doing right. I'm going to the shop tomorrow.
Please forgive me oh God of the Kawasaki's, I didn't mean to do wrong... I repent....
Say 50 hail Kipasses and pay a visit to your local Honda dealer for a tube of moly 60.
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Buying Honda lube for a Kwak....totally disgusting.
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Buying Honda lube for a Kwak....totally disgusting.
How's about Kwak lube for a Honda?
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So in an all out effort to steal this thread, am I doing grievous damage to my rear splines by using molly grease every tire change? That works out to about every 10,000 or so miles. I'm on MY third set of tires. I honestly THOUGHT I was doing right. I'm going to the shop tomorrow.
stl,
You were doing the right thing, clean and lube the wheel splines at each rear tire change. Brianś target in the OP were the
driveshaft splines.
Mick
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stl,
You were doing the right thing, clean and lube the wheel splines at each rear tire change. Brianś target in the OP were the
driveshaft splines.
Mick
I like your sig Mick.
"Born OK the First Time"
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:chugbeer: :thumbs:
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Yeah, but that Honda stuff is the only easily available source of moly paste that I know of.
I could actually make a reference that perhaps using Honda lube on the back end of the bike is the root of all problems, including those with the <k-word> but I don't want to start any more internet lore.... ;D
Brian
Buying Honda lube for a Kwak....totally disgusting.
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How's about Kwak lube for a Honda?
Sigh....
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I vaguely remember a lube thread in the near/distant past that took a decidely bizarre path. Are we going there again?
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Hopefully....
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I have never seen a thread drift off into any bizarre areas and I certainly do hope this one is not the first to do so. If it does though you could always demand your forum fee back.....
Threads about spline grease are not so bad but a thread that mentions rear end lube can get out of hand in a hurry….. opps, sorry.
Brian
I vaguely remember a lube thread in the near/distant past that took a decidely bizarre path. Are we going there again?
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Buying Honda lube for a Kwak....totally disgusting.
HONDA Lube, my HONDA Jacket, my HONDA parked next to my bike, and KiPass are the only reasons my '10 has went >41,000 miles without even a header bolt coming loose ;D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/goHonda.gif)
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HONDA Lube, my HONDA Jacket, my HONDA parked next to my bike, and KiPass are the only reasons my '10 has went >41,000 miles without even a header bolt coming loose ;D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/goHonda.gif)
Yeah, right....
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HONDA Lube, my HONDA Jacket, my HONDA parked next to my bike, and KiPass are the only reasons my '10 has went >41,000 miles without even a header bolt coming loose ;D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/goHonda.gif)
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
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I have never seen a thread drift off into any bizarre areas and I certainly do hope this one is not the first to do so. If it does though you could always demand your forum fee back.....
Threads about spline grease are not so bad but a thread that mentions rear end lube can get out of hand in a hurry….. opps, sorry.
Brian
Oh yeah, it was about the best spline lube to use in a Honda rear end.
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Oh yeah, it was about the best spline lube to use in a Honda rear end.
Did you really just use 'lube' and 'rear end' in the same sentence??? ;D
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last tire change I used molygraph on rear splines. guess I will know of any stuck in there as another rear tire change is coming real soon. but all is quite in and round the hub. not sure whats in the molygraph will have to dig it up and see.
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not sure whats in the molygraph will have to dig it up and see.
Molygraph. Just a wild guess, but Moly and Graphite perhaps? ;)