Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: CrashKLRtoConnie on August 04, 2011, 09:13:07 PM
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Today was riding with the wife and oops did a 2nd gear power wheelie (no more than a foot high) and now have a less than happy wife.
Given I was under 40 mph and did not open the throttle up much I was also ... surprised.
Any c14 wheelie experts want to comment on how prone the C14 is wheelie solo and 2 up? (Given I am 270 and wife is about 1/2 my size and empty cases)
Thanks
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Maybe you hit one of those speed bumps on the Interstate ;D
Hit one on I-70 sent us at least a whole foot in the air, bike and all, mind you that was at 80+ mph. :o
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QCTM
Now that you have done it, YOU are the expert. Seriously, with 400 lbs of people on board the C14's center of gravity is pretty high, and is also shifted rearwards now that you have (had) a passenger. That means wheelies can come fairly easily. Depending on incline, weather, rpms, etc - it can surprise you how readily the front will lift.
Lots of passengers feel a bit insecure without a backrest or trunk. Add some acceleration, nose lift and a bit of surprise, and you have the recipe for a less-than-happy wife. As you know.
No real solution, but some things may help: Listen. Apologize (no excuse or explanation, just apologize). Flowers. Dinner. Backrest/trunk.
Good luck.
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Do you change your rear shock setting when running 2-up? Makes a big difference...
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Yeah, 2-up a C-14 will pop right off the front wheel without any real effort. Riding 2-up it is about impossible to wind out first or second without lifting the front wheel but if you are aware that it is coming, you can hold the front wheel just off the ground until it drops when you shift. For a while I didn't even think my wife noticed that but it turns out that she did. She likes it though and it is tough to scare her on a motorcycle, at least one as large and heavy as a C-14.
And just to expand on the 2-up performance issue, you can take on 600 cc sport bikes with a solo rider and unless they are quite skilled, eat them for lunch. Even if they are competent they cannot get away and will lose ground in the straights. A liter bike will of course out run a C-14, especially one that is 2-up with some weight on board, under any conditions but what is truly surprising is how slowly a Concours will give ground. It truly surprised me and has absolutely amazed more than one kid on a sport bike, even a 1,000.
If your wife really does not like it I would suggest going a lot easier on the bike. If you alienate her to riding you will find yourself riding alone. Some will claim that is a good thing but not me- I like my wife and we ride together a lot. ;) And then there is the 'never scare the passenger' policy- I just don't think it is fun to frighten other people (except for hiding in a dark corner of the kitchen but that is another matter).
Brian
Today was riding with the wife and oops did a 2nd gear power wheelie (no more than a foot high) and now have a less than happy wife.
Given I was under 40 mph and did not open the throttle up much I was also ... surprised.
Any c14 wheelie experts want to comment on how prone the C14 is wheelie solo and 2 up? (Given I am 270 and wife is about 1/2 my size and empty cases)
Thanks
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Wife wheelies are due to the weight outside the load triangle (up high and to the rear). I can easily pop the front of my ST when she's on the back or if I load the bike heavy. She hates it. >:(
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5057293730_415aeb9088_o.jpg)
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I have a later model with traction control, when its enabled wheelies and having a tough time going up steep gravel/dirt driveways in the mountains are a thing of the past.
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And just to expand on the 2-up performance issue, you can take on 600 cc sport bikes with a solo rider and unless they are quite skilled, eat them for lunch.
Not really on topic but I know that my 10 year old 600 would run away from my C14 on most of the roads around central Ky. The straights have to be pretty long to make up for corner speed and braking.
I've had the concours power wheelie 2nd much higher than a foot solo. Weather and road conditions can make a big difference.
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I don't ride two-up on the Concours with my wife - that's what we have the Goldwing for. But a quick fun story. When my wife first started riding I had an ST1300. The first day we rode it any distance with her I was on a very open two-lane road. I "had" to pass some cars. I didn't want to accelerate too hard, but I did keep easing it up very gradually to about 110mph. I kept waiting for her to squeeze my waist or something to send me a message to slow down. Never did. When we got home she very casually said "you DO know I can see the speedometer, don't you?". She's not too crazy about letting me do that stuff, but she's a very good passenger.
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LOL! I accidentally did that with my younger sister on board while in the parking lot following my dad on his HD. Since he KNOWS I can smoke him he tries to take off hard to temporarily pull away from me while I'm not paying attention ( I guess it makes him feel good although short lived ;D ). I caught up quickly but only realized my front was raised when I felt the distinctive loose steering and the bump of the tire returning to the pavement. ::)
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I have a later model with traction control, when its enabled wheelies and having a tough time going up steep gravel/dirt driveways in the mountains are a thing of the past.
Me too. When I had the bike down at sea level this summer, there were several times the traction control kicked in on perfect dry pavement to prevent either a power wheelie or some tire spin. I've never had a bike that was capable of doing that just by rolling on the throttle. Up here at 7,000' plus I don't think the bike has the power to power wheelie. The only time the traction control kicks in is when I am on dirt or sand and I purposely give it a little power to check that my traction control is still working.
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Guys, that's all nothing. I can do a wheelie standing still with the wife and a fully loaded bike at the gas pump...
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I don't understand why traction control is kicking in to prevent a power wheelie - is it looking at the speed of the front wheel as well?
I've lifted the wheel before on a hard 1st and 2nd gear launch, but I didn't notice if either ABS or traction control kicked in to set it back down. Maybe I should play around with traction control off. I havent tried to do a proper wheelie yet on my bike.
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I don't understand why traction control is kicking in to prevent a power wheelie - is it looking at the speed of the front wheel as well?
I've lifted the wheel before on a hard 1st and 2nd gear launch, but I didn't notice if either ABS or traction control kicked in to set it back down. Maybe I should play around with traction control off. I havent tried to do a proper wheelie yet on my bike.
Traction control works by comparing the speed of the front tire vs. the speed of the rear tire. If the rear is spinning faster, then the bike has either lost traction, or the front tire is in the air and not being accelerated like the rear is.
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What's the difference between a drop and a crash again? (Just prepping...) ;)
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What's the difference between a drop and a crash again? (Just prepping...) ;)
In worse cases the tube in your nose.
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The difference is that after a drop you can start doing something else immediately (getting up, using bad language, etc.) while after a crash you have to wait until you and the bike are done moving.
Brian
What's the difference between a drop and a crash again? (Just prepping...) ;)
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What's the difference between a drop and a crash again? (Just prepping...) ;)
If anyone sees it happen it's a crash. If nobody is around to witness it's a drop.....er, maybe the other way around depending on how much damage.
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I've lifted the wheel before on a hard 1st and 2nd gear launch, but I didn't notice if either ABS or traction control kicked in to set it back down. Maybe I should play around with traction control off. I havent tried to do a proper wheelie yet on my bike.
If you have ever had the TC kick in due to a power wheelie (high RPM hard shift from 1st to 2nd), you will know it immediately. After it finishes slamming you into the bars, it shuts down the motor to a fraction of it's power, until you completely close the throttle for more than a moment.
Perhaps it's just my bike, but I doubt it. It's one of those things that Kawi could have done a little better at, but then again, it is the first generation of it (at least on the C14).
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Today was riding with the wife and oops did a 2nd gear power wheelie (no more than a foot high) and now have a less than happy wife.
Given I was under 40 mph and did not open the throttle up much I was also ... surprised.
I too, was slightly surprised by the bow height the first time my wife came aboard. Suspension settings are critical but right wrist settings are even more so. I go well out of my way not to jostle the goods in back... Braking and throttle inputs must be more gradual than when we are on our own. Pretend the roads are wet and it is getting down around freezing...
A top case helps confidence levels but bumps cg/leverage issues as well.
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Yeah... what's with that picture of a Harley and wheelies together in the same sentence..... ;)
fretka
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I go well out of my way not to jostle the goods in back... Braking and throttle inputs must be more gradual than when we are on our own. Pretend the roads are wet and it is getting down around freezing...
Yeah - my wife has never experienced any of my bikes at full throttle.
Barry
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If you have ever had the TC kick in due to a power wheelie (high RPM hard shift from 1st to 2nd), you will know it immediately. After it finishes slamming you into the bars, it shuts down the motor to a fraction of it's power, until you completely close the throttle for more than a moment.
Wow- I wouldn't have expected it to be that violent!
(I am still riding in "new owner, ultra-conservative mode" so I doubt I have ever triggered TC yet.)
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Thanks
Will install the new improved Lead (Pb) front fender extender designed to reduce wife wheelies and kryptonite induced KPASS failures
Wife's first solo motorcycle ride was on her brothers Kawasaki 90 that she wheelied down the street and almost dumped .. but did not.
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Wow- I wouldn't have expected it to be that violent!
(I am still riding in "new owner, ultra-conservative mode" so I doubt I have ever triggered TC yet.)
It can be. I've found myself cursing at it a couple of times after it 'over corrected'.
It seems to be directly proportionate to how much throttle is involved, and how quickly / drastically the front and rear speed sensors get out of sync.
In other words, the more aggressive you are when the front wheel comes off the ground, the more aggressive the traction control tries to "correct" the situation for you.
It probably seems logical when viewed as a formula to a design engineer, but in practical application, they should have applied a limit to it's 'correction capabilities'. Either that, or added a 'wheelie' sensor. ;)
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What's the difference between a drop and a crash again? (Just prepping...) ;)
A crash is when you have a bright light in your face followed by a "voice" explaining what the procedure is going to be to fix your "fill in the blank". All the while you're so stoned every one is dressed in RED, or so YOU THINK they are.... ah the memories......... ;D
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Daytona for Bike Week last year, Only had the bike a few weeks and was riding back to our campground around 1 am. Two bikes, one a metric crusier and a 600 sport bike were harrassing me at every stop light. About the third one I told the wife to hold on and punched it, when I banged 2nd the front tire came up enought to scare me and her. When I got to the next light both of the other bikes where laughing but as the light turned green one of them said thats a great bike as they sped off and I left slowly to make the wife happy.
Crash or drop, I fell off mine at about 15mph (in shop right now getting repaired). Not sure what to call it, there were several witnesses, the bike slide about 20 feet, no injuries to speak of so I thought it was a drop untill I got the insurance estimate $3700.00. For that much I think it should be an accident.
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Yes, it is very easy to"float" the front tire accelerating, especially in 1st or 2nd gear. I got a surprise once with my daughter on the back in 3rd gear and we passed a slower car. Going around him, we floated the front tire and my daughter says "Do it again daddy!"
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Crash or drop, I fell off mine at about 15mph (in shop right now getting repaired). Not sure what to call it, there were several witnesses, the bike slide about 20 feet, no injuries to speak of so I thought it was a drop untill I got the insurance estimate $3700.00. For that much I think it should be an accident.
$3700 is in the realm of a tip over. Someone on this site (pre-crash) had their C14 totaled from a tip over in their garage (it fell on a large flower pot or something).
In Oregon, if the bike was in use (being ridden), then it automatically becomes a collision claim, which can go against your insurance driving record, meaning they will likely raise your rates soon. If it was "the wind blew it over", it is treated as a comprehensive claim, which is in the 'theft, fire, vandalism' category, and less likely to result in rates going up unless you have a history of them.
Every state has their own insurance laws, but if you have the option, you want it to be a comprehensive claim rather than a collision claim.
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Happened once by accident with the wife on the back. She screamed like a ....well a girl. After that they were on purpose. As for solo ask the Mi State Trooper who issued me a ticket for careless driving. 3 points and $200 dollars. Ouch.
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I had mine loaded headed for Alaska. I was getting on the interstate. I sped up, but there was a Semi coming hard. I cracked the throttle and the front wheel came up. I didn't panic, in fact, I stayed in it! My baby did me right, and I hit 3rd. I got on the interstate in front of that semi. My dad caught up, and yelled to me "show off!"
I rather enjoy the instances when the front wheel comes up. Reminds me of my old GSX-R. You couldn't keep the front wheel on that thing down for nothing!
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I've never been able to lift the front wheel with just roll of the wrist.
This weekend with the bike fully loaded + top box + wife...pulling away from the lights with a little more gusto than normal (with wife) I found the front wheel coming up to my surprise. TC kicked in promptly and brought the front down with a small bump and we continued on our merry way.
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Remove the secondary throttle plates and the front end will come up with ease.
My Wife gets more upset when we start dragging pegs. She's used to the wheelies. 8)