Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: C14-Pilot on July 30, 2011, 07:27:05 PM
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Guys,
I just read the Cycleworld comparison of the new K1600Gt and the Concours 14 and here are my observations from what read:
The K1600Gt from what I can tell from the pictures in the mag and online is beautifully / well designed.
I am sure the K1600Gt is an awesome machine but is cost more than 9K more than a new Concours14.
Looking at the 1/4 mile and several roll on comparisons the C14 wins them all "barley" including top end.
The writer said that the C14 is prone to drag parts in the corners, I have never experienced that in 40K mikes and I ride aggressively.
The writer did say the C14 handles the twisties better though, which contradicts the previous line.
Anyone have any idea what a valve adjustment would cost on the K1600GT, very costly I am sure.
I cannot remember what the warranty is on the K1600GT I am guessing 12mos unlimited mileage vs 36 mos on the C14
I was amazed that even being compared to this all new EXSPENSIVE BWM the C14 held its own in the comparison.
If Kawasaki doesn't counter with a 6 cyl of their own they need to at least add selectable mappings for ECO, SPORT, TOURING, and add
factory cruise control. I would also like to see dual exhaust similar to the BMW.
later,
C-14 Pilot.
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Can't wait to read that article. Thanks for sharing.
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I know the BMW is a very well designed machine but the C14 is the best bang for the buck and I am completely satisfied with it.
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If Kawasaki doesn't counter with a 6 cyl of their own they need to at least add selectable mappings for ECO, SPORT, TOURING, and add
factory cruise control. I would also like to see dual exhaust similar to the BMW.
Especially electronic cruise control.
K16 warranty is the same as other BMW models; 3 years or 36k miles.
I know the BMW is a very well designed machine but the C14 is the best bang for the buck and I am completely satisfied with it.
I'm a fan of the roundel marque as well as previous owner of several touring, sport touring and sport model BMWs yet I couldn't agree with you more.
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Pilot, good report/summary. I dont see Kawasaki doing another 6 cylinder bike. They did a good job with their 6 back in 1978 and I dont see a need for another one.
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The article shows both bikes' top speed ~145mph? Seriously?
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Guys,
I just read the Cycleworld comparison of the new K1600Gt and the Concours 14 and here are my observations from what read:
The K1600Gt from what I can tell from the pictures in the mag and online is beautifully / well designed.
I am sure the K1600Gt is an awesome machine but is cost more than 9K more than a new Concours14.
Looking at the 1/4 mile and several roll on comparisons the C14 wins them all "barley" including top end.
The writer said that the C14 is prone to drag parts in the corners, I have never experienced that in 40K mikes and I ride aggressively.
The writer did say the C14 handles the twisties better though, which contradicts the previous line.
Anyone have any idea what a valve adjustment would cost on the K1600GT, very costly I am sure.
I cannot remember what the warranty is on the K1600GT I am guessing 12mos unlimited mileage vs 36 mos on the C14
I was amazed that even being compared to this all new EXSPENSIVE BWM the C14 held its own in the comparison.
If Kawasaki doesn't counter with a 6 cyl of their own they need to at least add selectable mappings for ECO, SPORT, TOURING, and add
factory cruise control. I would also like to see dual exhaust similar to the BMW.
later,
C-14 Pilot.
Nice article/conclusions. Several of us drag pegs on our 14s, it doesn't take much. The bags still have a few inches clearance.
In this pic the girl on the RC51 with her go-pro cam was falling back, but she caught me in front of her draggin' pegs and the guy in front of me was on his knee-puck.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer10/lean1.jpg)
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I just read the Cycleworld comparison of the new K1600Gt and the Concours 14 [...]
I was amazed that even being compared to this all new EXSPENSIVE BWM the C14 held its own in the comparison.[...]If Kawasaki doesn't counter with a 6 cyl of their own they need to at least add selectable mappings for ECO, SPORT, TOURING, and add factory cruise control. I would also like to see dual exhaust similar to the BMW.
Fascinating. And agreed, seems almost silly to compare the two. But there you have it! As far as performance goes, it sounds to me like there is no reason for Kawasaki to even consider a 6 cyl nor more displacement! Imagine how much more complex and expensive it would be.
Like you, I think all they really need to do is just more refinements and CERTAINLY the addition of factory cruise. The suggestions have been made in the forums before- things like adjustable seats, HID lights, all LED, more/better uses for the LCD, larger tank, etc, etc.
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Sometimes a bike seems to drag it's pegs easily because it handles so well that you are going faster than you expected through a curve. The issue isn't how easily it drags pegs, it's how fast your are going when you drag the pegs. On my FJR with the stock tires I didn't hit the pegs all that often. I switched to Avon Storms and suddenly I was dragging my pegs a whole lot more without trying just because the bike transitioned into the curves so easily.
As to the rest, I have not seen the article yet. I did a short ride on the GTL 1600. It had a lot of nice things about it, but I would never consider it a replacement for the Concours. It just feels like a much bigger bike and that I'm behind too much fairing and windshield. And it didn't feel nearly as fast as the Concours.
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the bikes are a lot different, starting with prices, then going into all the electronics on the BMW. Sure they are both sport tourers but in a totally different class. For the money there is no better buy than the concours. If your into gadgets than the BMW is for you. I guess you know there is no drain plug for the oil on the 1600 GT or GTL. BMW wants you to take it in for an oil change, they use a pump to get the oil out, my friends 1300GT is the same way.
There was a comparison on the GTL to the Gold Wing, they said the GTL was for someone going from a sport tourer to a bike more on the touring side and the Gold Wing was a bike for a man and his wife to go touring on.
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No oil drain plug? BMW (Bike Made Weird).
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Why the different riding modes? Isn't that what your right wrist and traction control is for? 8) The only thing the C14 needs or is lacking as options is true CC and adaptive headlights. The C14 has everything else and more at a very reasonable price.
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Why make a 6 cylinder with a larger displacement if you aren't going to have it produce more power? That makes zero sense to me. Yes I get the whole smoothness of the paired three cylinder thing but it doesn't buy you much.
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You can get the same smoothness from a V4, with plenty of HP and TQ... no need to plant a huge engine in there. The I4 in the C14 is amazing to me, coming from a ST1300 and Wing. You always hear about the buzzyness on I4's, but I've been pretty happy with this engine... smooth, strong... no real flat spots... just purr's and putt's along.
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Why make a 6 cylinder with a larger displacement if you aren't going to have it produce more power? That makes zero sense to me. Yes I get the whole smoothness of the paired three cylinder thing but it doesn't buy you much.
Or possibly, in this case, make more power, but lose it all due to additional weight.
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The BMW has much more weight and bulk. So much that the Connie whipped it in the quarter mile. This GT ?or GTL-- almost identical--is 61 pounds heavier than the c-14,German replacement for the old Light Truck LT, with or without the tail box. Ultimately they ended the article claiming the BMW more "comfortable". Duh. They did finally announce the heat coming off that huge engine is a real crotch heater--first the media sugerizers mentioned that. And if you read Kevin Cameron's article about racing, you will see some issues with the BMW 1000 finally put in print.
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Why the different riding modes? Isn't that what your right wrist and traction control is for? 8) The only thing the C14 needs or is lacking as options is true CC and adaptive headlights. The C14 has everything else and more at a very reasonable price.
Differences in ride are profound with different suspension settings, even on the C14.
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Or possibly, in this case, make more power, but lose it all due to additional weight.
I like your new avatar Max, very cool! :thumbs: 8)
Did you make that from one of your existing pics with photshop or something?
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I am not hoping for Kawasaki to do a 6 cly Concours but as I stated in my original post I would like
selectable mappings with the sport mode being more like a zx14.
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I like your new avatar Max, very cool! :thumbs: 8)
Did you make that from one of your existing pics with photshop or something?
Thanks. I was sick of the other one, it was so tiny you couldn't even see it was a Concours! So I took one of the pictures of my bike used GIMP [ http://www.gimp.org (http://www.gimp.org) ] on it with a "painting" effect. Zoomed and cropped, voila!
Here is a bigger version (click to see): (And original below it)
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Thanks. I was sick of the other one, it was so tiny you couldn't even see it was a Concours! So I took one of the pictures of my bike used GIMP [ http://www.gimp.org (http://www.gimp.org) ] on it with a "painting" effect. Zoomed and cropped, voila!
Here is a bigger version (click to see): (And original below it)
Nicely done bro! :hail:
Would be even better if it was black though... ;)
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The article shows both bikes' top speed ~145mph? Seriously?
The C14 in six gear will top out at that speed, but in 5th gear add +10Mph
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I am not hoping for Kawasaki to do a 6 cly Concours but as I stated in my original post I would like
selectable mappings with the sport mode being more like a zx14.
I may not understand your comment, if its about the ECU the '10s and 11s have selectable "economy" and "haul-*ss" mode map settings.
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Stevewfl,
I know the 10's and 11's have a selectable modes so You can select eco mode and "Haul-*ass" mode but isn't the "Haul-*ss" mode
the same mode that the 08 and 09 runs in all the time which is still not near as strong/fast as a zx14.
We have the zx14 based engine I just want a selectable mode that takes the "de-tuning" out of the picture.
Like a flies open all the time or maybe open at 3,000 instead of 6,000 rpms.
The HYBUSA has 3 modes that You can select with a push of a button and their SPORT mode is ZX14 FAST or FASTER!
thanks,
c14-Pilot
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Stevewfl,
I know the 10's and 11's have a selectable modes so You can select eco mode and "Haul-*ass" mode but isn't the "Haul-*ss" mode the same mode that the 08 and 09 runs in all the time which is still not near as strong/fast as a zx14.
We have the zx14 based engine I just want a selectable mode that takes the "de-tuning" out of the picture. Like a flies open all the time or maybe open at 3,000 instead of 6,000 rpms.
While I agree with your desire, and think another mode would be helpful (because the "normal" mode of the C-14 is still balanced for decent MPG), you can't expect all THAT much change. The ZX14 is faster primarily because it weighs less and has an entirely different intake and exhaust system.
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Stevewfl,
I know the 10's and 11's have a selectable modes so You can select eco mode and "Haul-*ass" mode but isn't the "Haul-*ss" mode
the same mode that the 08 and 09 runs in all the time which is still not near as strong/fast as a zx14.
We have the zx14 based engine I just want a selectable mode that takes the "de-tuning" out of the picture.
Like a flies open all the time or maybe open at 3,000 instead of 6,000 rpms.
The HYBUSA has 3 modes that You can select with a push of a button and their SPORT mode is ZX14 FAST or FASTER!
thanks,
c14-Pilot
Just to clarify, the Hayabusa modes are for rain or loaning your bike to your grandmother to ride. They not a "faster" modes, they are slower modes.
I understand your comment and what you are looking for, but just to be clear, the Concours engine has a lot of changes to give it more mid-range for touring duty. The engines have a lot of internal differences from the ZX. And the post above does not even come close - it's not just exhaust and intake. They have different compression ratios, much different throttle bodies and cams. That is basically everything about the engine except the displacement.
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No oil drain plug? BMW (Bike Made Weird).
no drain plug ?!? Taking it off my wish list (Post lottery win wish list)
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Stevewfl,
I know the 10's and 11's have a selectable modes so You can select eco mode and "Haul-*ass" mode but isn't the "Haul-*ss" mode
the same mode that the 08 and 09 runs in all the time which is still not near as strong/fast as a zx14.
We have the zx14 based engine I just want a selectable mode that takes the "de-tuning" out of the picture.
Like a flies open all the time or maybe open at 3,000 instead of 6,000 rpms.
The HYBUSA has 3 modes that You can select with a push of a button and their SPORT mode is ZX14 FAST or FASTER!
thanks,
c14-Pilot
OHHH gotcha, you compared directly witht he ZX14 bike. Different everything, not just map. And as was said, fuel mileage is so horrid sport-touring is about not an option because of distance between tanks. Also not as "torquey" down low.
But I miss my old "rip your face off acceleration" and mega-straight line top speed performance!
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/vickzx14.jpg)
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Guys, I think your maybe looking at it wrong. I love the K1600GT, the gadgets are great if you want them. I love it when a manufacture comes out with a bike like this, it forces the bar to be raised and we ALL benefit from that!!! I wish the price on the beemers was lower but I'm not concerned about that, Kawasaki isn't going for that demographic.
Raise the bar and we all win, eventually! I want to ride one ASAP!
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Guys, I think your maybe looking at it wrong. I love the K1600GT, the gadgets are great if you want them. I love it when a manufacture comes out with a bike like this, it forces the bar to be raised and we ALL benefit from that!!! I wish the price on the beemers was lower but I'm not concerned about that, Kawasaki isn't going for that demographic.
Raise the bar and we all win, eventually! I want to ride one ASAP!
Also, I think it's important to realize what a compliment it is to this design to be compared to a motorcycle that is *so* much more expensive. Of ALL the bikes out there, ours is the one that is getting the comparison. Think about it, if Kawasaki wanted to build a machine in that price bracket what could Kawasaki build? I like BMW's, had an old 3 series car and have friends with K and R bikes, but ultimately, I still think it's the Ultimate Draining Machine, your wallet that is...
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Also, I think it's important to realize what a compliment it is to this design to be compared to a motorcycle that is *so* much more expensive. Of ALL the bikes out there, ours is the one that is getting the comparison. Think about it, if Kawasaki wanted to build a machine in that price bracket what could Kawasaki build? I like BMW's, had an old 3 series car and have friends with K and R bikes, but ultimately, I still think it's the Ultimate Draining Machine, your wallet that is...
Very good point!
i would love to see a real cruise on the C14 ...
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Here's my take. I recently demo'ed the GT and GTL. The GT is incredible. Particularly the Engine. Its amazingly smooth. And I love the cruise control, ability to raise the seat up and the option to have a stereo. I also like the riding position better,
I demo'ed the K1300GT right after I bought my 09, and I can say the C-14 is better than the K1300Gt, but this K1600GT is top notch. I would buy one in a second, If I had the money (which I dont!)
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I would like to see kawasaki redirect some of that top end power, in favor of more low and midrange monster grunt. how much time do we spend above 100mph. that's my 2cents
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I would like to see kawasaki redirect some of that top end power, in favor of more low and midrange monster grunt. how much time do we spend above 100mph. that's my 2cents
More than I ought to!! ;)
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I would like to see kawasaki redirect some of that top end power, in favor of more low and midrange monster grunt. how much time do we spend above 100mph. that's my 2cents
They already did that. The Concours engine is exactly what you want taken from the ZX-14. Like quite a few others, I wish they would put the ZX engine in the Concours without neutering it. Those six gear ratios are what you use when you want more acceleration. If you don't want a SPORT/touring bike you can always buy an ST1300 sport/TOURING bike.
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From the article
BMW has brought an end to three years of crushing dominance by Kawasaki’s Concours 14. The Bavarian Motor Works last earned the honor of Best Sport-Touring Bike in 2006-07 with its K1200GT and stepped up in a big way this year with its all-new K1600GT. Sure, it’s way more expensive than the C-14, but the standard-features list is long, and the accessories list is even longer. But even without the integrated navigation system, adaptive headlight, ESA II and more, the K1600GT’s torque-monster inline-Six and superbly comfortable, easy-steering chassis have changed the very idea of what sport-touring can be. If you don’t have the money, consider selling a kidney.
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I just read the Cycle World comments and after spending over an hour on the K1600GT I don't understand how anyone can even put it in the Sport-Touring class, unless you limit Sport-Touring to very smooth and pretty straight roads. The K1600GT is definitely the king of comfort when the road is smooth, although the C14 isn't far behind, but when the roads get twisty and bumpy in places the K1600GT is really out of its element and the ESA doesn't help much because it really doesn't do much, just some minor adjustments in rebound damping in the rear shock. Riding the BMW around a 15 mph hairpin was like being on a big, overweight cruiser. Overall, I liked the K1600GT and would buy one if it were not for the maintenance schedule and that my nearest BMW dealer is 150 miles away, but it would be my touring bike, not my sport touring bike.
They really should compare the K1600GT to the ST1300, since the BMW is really a heavier, faster version of the ST1300 with a lot more bells and whistles. In the mean time, Don Canet should stick to evaluating motorcycles he knows something about; race bikes that are (barely) street legal.
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How much are they?
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How much are they?
$25,000 and up
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i guess if we take price out of the picture you can compare these bikes ... but at 10 grand more ... it just can not be worth it.
I think the C14 is awesome for the price ... it handles well, has great power gets decent mileage for what it is and is comfy for long trips.
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$25,000 and up
For that kinda dough, I'd get 2 leftover 09's with farkels, leave one in the crate for when the wheels wear of the first one.
Transfer farklels. 8)
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For that kinda dough, I'd get 2 leftover 09's with farkels, leave one in the crate for when the wheels wear of the first one.
Transfer farklels. 8)
That's the truth! The very reason I'm not on a BMW today? Bang for the buck landed me on the C14
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For those willing to spend money FYI, BMW locked up CycleWorld's critics in both sport-touring and touring! http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_roadtest/ten_best_bikes_2011 (http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_roadtest/ten_best_bikes_2011)
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I have to say that when the BMW factory demo truck comes through Colorado again I will definitely take the K1600GT and GTL for a ride. I took the K1300GT and the K1200LT for a ride before buying my C14. Both excellent bikes with vastly different attributes but in the end the C14 offered more bang for the buck.
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Budget bike <---seems we all agree thats what are bikes are. I may have to let do of some cash one day for on the fly adjustable suspension, headlight technology, KiPass that works panniers and all, and just overall good living. Maybe as soon as I start having trouble with mine (never, with KiPass!)
Some prefer a nicely equipped suburban over the escalade too.... just sayn' (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconhammer.gif)
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For those willing to spend money FYI, BMW locked up CycleWorld's critics in both sport-touring and touring! http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_roadtest/ten_best_bikes_2011 (http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_roadtest/ten_best_bikes_2011)
That is so stupid- there is no difference between the GTL and the GT (that I can see) except the GTL has a top box. Big whoop! They act like it is a different bike.
Me thinks they have been paid or something for that listing. I will grant the K1600 as perhaps the best TOURING bike, but I don't think it beats the Concours as the best SPORT Touring bike... even if you discount the INCREDIBLE difference in price (and price *has* to be part of the "best" computation for any rational person).
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That is so stupid- there is no difference between the GTL and the GT (that I can see) except the GTL has a top box. Big whoop! They act like it is a different bike.
Me thinks they have been paid or something for that listing. I will grant the K1600 as perhaps the best TOURING bike, but I don't think it beats the Concours as the best SPORT Touring bike... even if you discount the INCREDIBLE difference in price (and price *has* to be part of the "best" computation for any rational person).
Totally different bikes between the GT and GT L. Starting with weight, options, luggage configurations, seats, fuel tank, windscreen, and more stuff than i cant spend all night typing.
Compared with the C14 is has a lot more and costs more. i think it deserves to be on top, even if its not "practicle" or best "value" play, its on top.
GT trumped the jap sport-tourers, and the GTL TOTALLY trumped the Goldwinger.
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I guess you know there is no drain plug for the oil on the 1600 GT or GTL.
Yes, there is a drain plug. Actually, there's two of them.
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I think it flattering that they would compare the Beemer to the humble Connie because in my opinion (2 cents) they should be comparing the Beemer to the Goldwing or full dresser bike.
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Totally different bikes between the GT and GT L. Starting with weight, options, luggage configurations, seats, fuel tank, windscreen, and more stuff than i cant spend all night typing.
??? Totally different bikes?!?! Same engine, same dash, same frame, same body, same exhaust, same injection, same intake, same transmission, same battery, same alternator, same tires, same wheels, same handlebars, same mirrors, same lights, same drive, same brakes, same suspension, same cooling system, same electronics, same mirrors, etc, etc, etc. It is just a different trim level!
Granted, I am no expert on the BMW line, but from the specs I was able to get from the "compare" on their site, there was literally nothing different listed (except weight from the trim differences). From other sites, what you said was all I could find- larger tank, different seat, top box, taller windshield, and handlebar extension. If that makes for a different model, then my bike is no longer a Concours GTR1400 :)
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I think it flattering that they would compare the Beemer to the humble Connie because in my opinion (2 cents) they should be comparing the Beemer to the Goldwing or full dresser bike.
I think that BMW KNOWS that they have a home run here. Over the last few years they have worked very aggressively at losing the uber snobby, conservative image. I mean they actually SHOW their bikes doing wheelies! I can assure you that you would have NEVER seen ANY thing like that 5 years ago (even if they had a bike that would do it back then)
They aren't challenging the Goldwing crowd, they know that you are either going to ride a BMW or a Wing or a Harley in THAT market. They are seriously aiming at us. They 'tweeners' that generally have money, and spend it on what they like. BMW is VERY interested in the SPORT touring part of the market because my grandpa tours on a wing. I ain't my grandpa!
I've drooled over the 1600 since I first saw the spy photos. I had my LT and loved it for the most part. Two things that sour me on BMW. One they are so damned expensive, and you NEVER can get ANY money back out of them! and B.) they are so damned expensive to RIDE! Their service intervals are excruciating. It also seems that BMW got the memo on this one, they made the 1600 so flippin complicated that the average guy is going to need a year's worth of training to learn how to change the oil!
One last thing, I felt VERY comfortable riding my LT with my sport riding buddies. I sold mine with several scrapes on the mid-fairing just below and forward of my knee where I had it over and scraped the fairing in the twisties. It maybe was more like an El Camino rather than a Light Truck, but I rode it hard. It's no CBR, but it is/was a very capable bike when you put the screws to it, and I expect that the 1600 is if anything MUCH better than the LT!
Alas, I'll never own another BMW. Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me!
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Yes, there is a drain plug. Actually, there's two of them.
Shades of C10, Batman!
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$25,000 and up
Jeremy - the GT starts at just a hair over $20,000. A loaded GT or GTL just barely breaks the $25K mark. They are actually not that badly priced. Even at the base price of around $20k they have standard cruise-control, heated seats an grips for instance.
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??? Totally different bikes?!?! Same engine, same dash, same frame, same body, same exhaust, same injection, same intake, same transmission, same battery, same alternator, same tires, same wheels, same handlebars, same mirrors, same lights, same drive, same brakes, same suspension, same cooling system, same electronics, same mirrors, etc, etc, etc. It is just a different trim level!
Granted, I am no expert on the BMW line, but from the specs I was able to get from the "compare" on their site, there was literally nothing different listed (except weight from the trim differences). From other sites, what you said was all I could find- larger tank, different seat, top box, taller windshield, and handlebar extension. If that makes for a different model, then my bike is no longer a Concours GTR1400 :)
Some of what you say is true and some is not. Handlebars are different, suspensions are different, exhaust is different, seats are different and probably a few other things I've missed.
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The 1600GT is the sport-tourer, the "GT-L" is the luxury (competes with Goldwing). Two different bikes, riding styles, configurations, and purpose although sure they share they same engine and dash and such.
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I would like to see kawasaki redirect some of that top end power, in favor of more low and midrange monster grunt. how much time do we spend above 100mph. that's my 2cents
a full system/PCV and flies out really kinda fix the power curve issues.......and the heat issues......and help on the weight and MPG.......only hurts the pocket book a bit.....
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Jeremy - the GT starts at just a hair over $20,000. A loaded GT or GTL just barely breaks the $25K mark. They are actually not that badly priced. Even at the base price of around $20k they have standard cruise-control, heated seats an grips for instance.
I have seen the GT start at $20,900, but I was told that after all the fees the out the door price is closer to $25,000.
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Look, here's the deal for me in a nutshell; call them bargain bikes, jap crap, poor mans tourer, whatever, I've never been impressed with spending more for the sake of belonging to a click of riders. I have owned probably a dozen bikes in my lifetime. All Asian makes, and that's on purpose. Usually it's two fold; 1. They always start. Period. 2. They are usually cheaper to buy and keep maintained. I DO consider value long term. I DO appreciate the vehicle more because of that perceived value. Perhaps that's old fashioned? Not sure.
The BMW crowd is exactly like the crowd I hung around growing up as the kid of a guy who sold European cars. They were all convinced the European cars were better than the jap copies. The Jap car didn't have 'soul'. pfffttt, whatever.
Every single British car my Dad has ever had, or has ever worked on is actually a pile of junk. They actually rusted from the factory. They had to fix them off the delivery truck. They were really just crappy cars. But they had something about them that ALOT of people really liked. But to me, they just looked neat, sounded cool (when they ran), but were really just a big hole to throw money into. The first car I bought with my own money was a 1990 Honda Civic Si. Now that little car didn't just have a Soul, it had a heart.
Every bike I've had from Japan has been the same. They are simpler bikes. But I subscribe to the KISS philosophy.
I suspect the BMW is a wonderful bike. Like I said, I had an 86 BMW 325, and I loved that car. But I would have traded it in a New York minute for a Datsun 510. It's simple, Japan build machines that are build to last. My wife owns a 2003 Honda Accord. I swear to god it's as good as it was the day we bought it brand new from the lot. We've replaced tires, oil and a battery in that time. I am pretty sure any European make you want to mention couldn't hope to accomplish the same.
Different strokes, different folks. I liken it to buying a Harley to be in HOG. ppffffttt, whatever.
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You are Sofa King right.
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BMW "Click"? I agree to disagree. The BMW is more bike. Maybe a little more bike for much more money and not a value play, but the bike is more and deserves the credit the mags are giving it for being on top this year.
Buit I expect this forum (like the Suzuki and Honda forums) to be biased, and even call the BMW riders clickish and such for a feel-good. Personally I'd rather ride my C14 bike too but I can't knock a manufacturer for being on top.
And if anyone is wondering, a BMW GT can be had for the price listed if you negotiate write. Same with a jap bike, sure there are fees and such, I flew to NJ to avoid all that on mine and get lower than sticker. Same can be done on a Triumph, BMW, Aprilia, Ducati, or any other brand thats been cutting into the jap sales consistently over the past 5 years.
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BMW "Click"? I agree to disagree. The BMW is more bike. Maybe a little more bike for much more money and not a value play, but the bike is more and deserves the credit the mags are giving it for being on top this year.
Buit I expect this forum (like the Suzuki and Honda forums) to be biased, and even call the BMW riders clickish and such for a feel-good. Personally I'd rather ride my C14 bike too but I can't knock a manufacturer for being on top.
And if anyone is wondering, a BMW GT can be had for the price listed if you negotiate write. Same with a jap bike, sure there are fees and such, I flew to NJ to avoid all that on mine and get lower than sticker. Same can be done on a Triumph, BMW, Aprilia, Ducati, or any other brand thats been cutting into the jap sales consistently over the past 5 years.
I think you misunderstood, at least a portion, of what I was saying there. Again, I suspect the bike is a wonderful piece of machinery. I am too also quite sure its extremely well engineered. That having been said, it *is* a total clique brand. The Bimmer guys are as cliqueish as the H.O.G. guys and gals. I'm just saying, it's not my thing, for bikes.
I would still like to have a GS, FWIW.
As to whether something is worth that much money or not. Clearly, if someone bought it for that much then they felt it was worth that much. Something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Economics aside, I'd have the bike. But until I sell my company, I'm riding, and loving, this C14. Alot.
It just think if you don't take economics into account for these kinds of tests, then where do you draw the line? Is the only criteria that it must be a homologated motorcycle? My point being that they didn't create strata within this comparison because to do so would leave the the BMW in its own class because of price, so they had to measure on merits alone. Not a bad thing, just not quite fair either. But for a bunch of guys who ride motorcycles for a living and probably have been riding a demo bike of one kind or another in recent memory, OPM is irrelevant to this test.
I mean, we aren't talking $5000 vs $5500 here. We are talking $12K vs what $18K? Sure, it had BETTER be a @#$! of alot better. That's not to take away from the fact that it is the winner. I just have a hard time with the term better here I suppose. And before you say it, I am actually a Honda guy. The ST just didn't wet my whistle.
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Well I've never owned a German bike but have owned many German cars...
The quality, comfort features, and attention to detail on German cars is WAY better then Japanese cars IMO! Apples and oranges I know, but if their bike building is anything like their car building I'm sure they don't suck...
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/101_0178.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/100_0087.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/2.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/meandpops.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/CAAN67QT.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/100_0046.jpg)
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Some of what you say is true and some is not.
That wouldn't surprise me.
Handlebars are different, suspensions are different, exhaust is different, seats are different and probably a few other things I've missed.
Well, I already said bars and seats. What info do you have that the suspension or exhaust is different? In all the photos, the exhaust (at least) looks identical (of course looks can be deceiving).
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That wouldn't surprise me.
Well, I already said bars and seats. What info do you have that the suspension or exhaust is different? In all the photos, the exhaust (at least) looks identical (of course looks can be deceiving).
I have read a lot about the bikes. When I say the suspension is different, I mean spring and damping rates - not the basic components. I've read that the exhaust has more of an aggressive sound on the GT.
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Thanks Sofa King for clarification, I understand now and can't disagree.
ZG....wow! Your cars are ALMOST as pretty as your bike (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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ZG....wow! Your cars are ALMOST as pretty as your bike (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
Thanks bro!
I don't have one anymore, as listed below was the order of my progression with them though over about 10 years, then the economy crapped out and I went back to my original long time passion, bikes... ;D
Sorry for the brief threadjack, the debate of Germany vs Japan quality inspired me...
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The BMW crowd is exactly like the crowd I hung around growing up as the kid of a guy who sold European cars. They were all convinced the European cars were better than the jap copies. The Jap car didn't have 'soul'. pfffttt, whatever.
Every single British car my Dad has ever had, or has ever worked on is actually a pile of junk. They actually rusted from the factory. They had to fix them off the delivery truck. They were really just crappy cars. But they had something about them that ALOT of people really liked. But to me, they just looked neat, sounded cool (when they ran), but were really just a big hole to throw money into. The first car I bought with my own money was a 1990 Honda Civic Si. Now that little car didn't just have a Soul, it had a heart.
I think it's a crime to try to group BMW in with any car that ever came out of Great Britain.
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Fortunately, nobody is forcing any of us to buy a bike we don't want. Having owned a CBX, I followed the K16 development with interest. If I had a spare $25k burning a hole in my pocket, it would be very temping to crunch the numbers on a GT. As it is, I'm just glad to see it on the market. There is something about the smoothness and sounds from an inline 6 motorcycle that appeals to me on a gut level. BMW has been on a roll with new models and rising sales. Good on 'em.
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I think it's a crime to try to group BMW in with any car that ever came out of Great Britain.
You are SOOOO right...
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Or possibly, in this case, make more power, but lose it all due to additional weight.
Topspeed quotes the power of the 1600 GT engine to be 160 hp to the crank. A stock C14 typically dynos around 140 hp to the wheels. That's at least 160 hp to the crank.
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Topspeed quotes the power of the 1600 GT engine to be 160 hp to the crank. A stock C14 typically dynos around 140 hp to the wheels. That's at least 160 hp to the crank.
+1
The BMW totes a little more weight, but between the extra Hp and downlow BRUTE torque, it makes the right pow-ah ;D
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When I test rode the K1200LT from the factory demo truck it was before they announced the K1600. My comment on the 1200LT was "A fantastic touring bike. Handles much better then the size and weight would have you believe. But where's the torque?". If some marketing puke read that he must have been smiling knowing the 1600 was on its way.
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When I test rode the K1200LT from the factory demo truck it was before they announced the K1600. My comment on the 1200LT was "A fantastic touring bike. Handles much better then the size and weight would have you believe. But where's the torque?". If some marketing puke read that he must have been smiling knowing the 1600 was on its way.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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The Horsepower figures are printed in the test.
C14 132.2
BMW 133.9
The BMW does have a torque advantage as it tested at 114.5@5200 and the c14 shows 89@66.25
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Well I've never owned a German bike but have owned many German cars...
The quality, comfort features, and attention to detail on German cars is WAY better then Japanese cars IMO! Apples and oranges I know, but if their bike building is anything like their car building I'm sure they don't suck...
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/101_0178.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/100_0087.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/2.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/meandpops.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/CAAN67QT.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/100_0046.jpg)
I've owned one german bike and 3 german cars. And all of them have been expensive, dissappointing pain in the asses.
I'll stick with my Japanese and USA automobiles.
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Power is not an issue on the C14 but torque at low RPM makes a smoother ride. In other words, I am looking forward to Kawasaki to match the BMW with a 6cyl using their previous experience of ~10y with 6 cylinder bikes. With the additional cruise control, better 2up accomodations, etc, they can target it to GW and GTL slots.
I will be in with the Kawa 6cyl "GT" model. Till then, my C14 keeps rocking.
I just came back from a 5.5k mile trip, 2/3 of which was done 2up. C14 is a GREAT bike... 36K+ miles on the odo and still rocks like new.
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I have been following this thread for a few days now and didn't feel like I had anything to add, keeping in mind that I wrote about my experience with the K1600 GT/L, but some of the posters simply don't know what they are writing about, first among which is Steve. Sorry Steve if you take it as a personal attack, but I also take it personal when somebody throws nonsense at me and expects me to brainlessly believe it.
I have the luck to have tested both bikes a few times in different scenarios and also driving in groups on it or behind or in front. And I own the Kawa. So a few points:
- GT and GTL are the same bike. Changes are the topcase, the pegs (bigger, lower, more forward on the L), the handlebars (more forward on the GT), the suspension (not mechanicaly, just more preload on the rear), the maximum speed (in both cases electronically limited, slightly lower on the GTL), air flaps, seat. That is less than what I already changed in my Kawa, and it is still the same bike than yours.
- the BMW is a terrific bike, both versions tour wonderfully, and the GT will allow more lean angle than the GTL at the expense of some comfort. But if you took the best sportbike and compare it with the Kawa, the latter is about 80% of the former. It really is a great performer, surprisingly capable for a bike this size. The BMW would be 50%, in my opinion. Then, if you take the best touring bike (say, a Goldwing), the BMW would be about as good or better for the driver, but the passenger comfort is clearly lower. I'd put it then at 90% of touring capabilities, whereas the Kawa would be at 70%.
So basically, the BMW is much more touring oriented. I would never consider it a sporting bike in any meaning of the word. Yes, it can corner very well, better than a bike that size should, but it still doesn't corner like a Kawa. And touring wise is not light years ahead. The balance attained by the C14 is really high, whereas the BMW gives away too much on the sport side to earn more credit on the touring side, for my taste anyway. Touring and sport riding and two very different constrains when it comes to design a bike, and noone makes a better job at combining them with so little compromises as the Kawasaki.
I know I'm repeating myself but this is how I see it: if you have a K1600, you'll go on that tour and get to the hotel very relaxed after many km. But if you want to hit the curves you need something else. With the Kawa, you will arrive a bit less relaxed, but you can attack the curves and have fun and only a handful of bikes (given all other factors equal) will pull away (S1000RR and such).
So try stopping to explain us how much more bike the K1600 is. It isn't. It's a different bike that does other things better than the Kawa, but not by that much, and other things worse, by quite a bit.
Last but not least, these are bikes. We buy with the heart, not the brain, so if it makes YOU happy go get it. I had the chance to sample the Honda VFR1200 this week and understood the meaning of "never meet your hero", while right now I'm sampling a Ducati Diavel and I can't find a single reason to buy it, except that I can't stop thinking how much I want to buy it...
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Martin from what you are saying, the BMW's (either one) are more Goldwing than Concours 14, right?
I looked at them today. They are the same bike. The dealer was very knowledgeable on the bike and said suspension tuning was the biggest difference. Obviously, accessories like you mentioned....I also agree 100% on the vfr.
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No, I don't consider the comments a personaol attack on me, I phished some of them out as stirring the pot.
I like how many say they are the SAME bike then note a trillion differences:
- GT and GTL are the same bike. Changes are the topcase, the pegs (bigger, lower, more forward on the L), the handlebars (more forward on the GT), the suspension (not mechanicaly, just more preload on the rear), the maximum speed (in both cases electronically limited, slightly lower on the GTL), air flaps, seat.
They are the same bike. The dealer was very knowledgeable on the bike and said suspension tuning was the biggest difference. Obviously, accessories like you mentioned....
Now how can i consider such glaring contradictions (and obvious differences in weight, suspension, and options) a personal attack against me? Its all good fella's (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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Different bike means "different" to me. Something like a zx10r and a Ninja 1000. When a machine uses the same engine, frame, wheels, suspension components, brakes and such its the same . Accessories and color can change, but its still the same basic bike. They become even more "same" if options are added to the lower level model.
I saw them as if I was looking at Honda Civics. The "DX" "LX" or "EX" had many different accessories, but one was high end, the other..not so high end.
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I don't know anything about the BMW's, but from all the descriptions the GT and GTL sound like basically the same bike. I would define that as: if you can strip away aesthetics and amenities from each bike and eventually end up with two identical bikes, then they are the same bike in different clothes.
I'm sure the BMW's are great bikes, but I'm not sure about the comparison. As others have been hinting at, I don't consider the GT to be in the same class as the C14. The capabilities may be similar, but the price difference alone is enough to warrant different classifications. Basically what they said was, for a lot more money you get a bike that's more comfortable and has more torque (thanks to an extra 200cc's). I didn't need a magazine article to tell me that.
I was a little surprised to see that the Kawi has higher load capacity than the BMW by almost 50 lbs (about the difference in weight between the bikes). Unless that's a typo in the magazine, that's a bit disappointing for the Beemer and a pretty obvious downside to that extra curb weight.
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I don't know anything about the BMW's, but from all the descriptions the GT and GTL sound like basically the same bike. I would define that as: if you can strip away aesthetics and amenities from each bike and eventually end up with two identical bikes, then they are the same bike in different clothes.
Different bike means "different" to me. Something like a zx10r and a Ninja 1000. When a machine uses the same engine, frame, wheels, suspension components, brakes and such its the same . Accessories and color can change, but its still the same basic bike.
GT and GTL are the same bike. Changes are [...] That is less than what I already changed in my Kawa, and it is still the same bike than yours.
Exactly. Which is what I have said twice already. They are the same bike with different trim levels. The end.
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I hear if the K1600GT/L tips over and the engine gets damaged, there is no replacing parts. The whole engine needs to be replaced = nearly totaled.
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I'm sure that's just a temporary thing while they build up their parts.
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If your into gadgets than the BMW is for you. I guess you know there is no drain plug for the oil on the 1600 GT or GTL. BMW wants you to take it in for an oil change, they use a pump to get the oil out, my friends 1300GT is the same way.
Not into silly gadgets at all and the drainplug thing is a REAL dealkiller for me. I knew there was a reason i stayed away from that brand.
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I hear if the K1600GT/L tips over and the engine gets damaged, there is no replacing parts. The whole engine needs to be replaced = nearly totaled.
Oh, that can't possibly be a "normal" thing. Maybe it is just too new at the moment?
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No, I don't consider the comments a personaol attack on me, I phis...
yada yada yada...
:banghead:
my fault. I'll go talk to my hamsters.
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I hear if the K1600GT/L tips over and the engine gets damaged, there is no replacing parts. The whole engine needs to be replaced = nearly totaled.
There has also been a rumor going around that there is no drain plug for the oil and only a BMW tech can change the oil (false).
Based upon something I read, and some common sense, I think that this statement was taken out of context. I know that there have been a couple of reported engine problems. It's not unusual for a manufacturer to want to replace an entire engine if there are internal problems so they can study what happened to the engine.
I also know there are a couple of guys on the BMW forum who have already wrecked their 1600, and I'm sure it's possible that they have done enough engine damage that it's not economical to fix them - and it's entirely possible that spare parts are hard to come by right now. I have not followed those threads lately.
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The BMW may be the best, most comfortable bike ever made, but if it doesn't have KiPass then I'm not interested. 8)
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I don't know about the new BMW's, but my buddy's K1200S doesn't have a drain plug on the final gear. He has to go through all kinds of contortions to drain it.
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LoL @ this Kawi thread, it delivers (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
And you have me convinced, GT and GTL, only difference is the letter. Not price, suspension/handling characteristics, weight, options, accessories, nor anything else that dtsinguishes one model from another (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/badteeth.gif)
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And you have me convinced, GT and GTL, only difference is the letter. Not price, suspension/handling characteristics, weight, options, accessories, nor anything else that dtsinguishes one model from another
Nobody said there was no difference, just that it isn't "a totally different bike", it is the same bike with some different accessories- some added, some swapped.
We Concours owners typically have so many accessories and things changed, that most of us have more differences in our otherwise IDENTICAL MODEL bikes from OEM than there are between the stock K1600GT and GTL (or at least the same)!
In partial defense of BWM, when you add up how much many of us spend on all these low-volume, high priced Concours mods, the "cheap" price of the Concours isn't quite as cheap anymore.
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In partial defense of BWM, when you add up how much many of us spend on all these low-volume, high priced Concours mods, the "cheap" price of the Concours isn't quite as cheap anymore.
Maybe for some people, but I have around $8,000 invested in my C14 and that includes all the farkles and four sets of tires. For that kind of money there isn't anything comparable that has the BMW Roundel on it.
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I've also heard that people who buy the 1600 hate baby kittens. Need I say more?
(http://www.pspsps.tv/sad_kitten.jpg)
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Bastards!!! :rotflmao:
I've also heard that people who buy the 1600 hate baby kittens. Need I say more?
(http://www.pspsps.tv/sad_kitten.jpg)
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Good gawwd that creature is ugly. Did someone hit in the face with a frying pan.........................if not, then they need to. ;D
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Good gawwd that creature is ugly. Did someone hit in the face with a frying pan.........................if not, then they need to. ;D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconhammer.gif)
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Almost as ugly as this!
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Almost as ugly as this!
Cats are such wonderful and beautiful creatures! But I really don't know what people see in Sphynx's and Persians (the two pics referenced). So, to continue the total destruction of this thread, here is my latest meow, who I am sure, you all will agree, is far nicer looking!
(1 year old, male, pure bred, Maine Coon, classic brown tabby with low white)
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:o now were comparing.... er... puddy-Tats :-X
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(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/facepalm.gif) (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/SmileySuicide.gif)
Pussy thread for sure now...
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(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/facepalm.gif) (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/SmileySuicide.gif)
Pussy thread for sure now...
The Best Of Both"Worlds":
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5fvGn4RFGmxj6Usm6Pye9BpRlcDXeJciSbDCNYCAkyKB5TAOz_w)
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The Best Of Both"Worlds":
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5fvGn4RFGmxj6Usm6Pye9BpRlcDXeJciSbDCNYCAkyKB5TAOz_w)
:o :thumbs: :hail:
That would make even somebody from Cincinnati root for the Bengals Tom... ;D
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:o :thumbs: :hail:
That would make even somebody from Cincinnati root for the Bengals Tom... ;D
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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Well I've never owned a German bike but have owned many German cars...
The quality, comfort features, and attention to detail on German cars is WAY better then Japanese cars IMO! Apples and oranges I know, but if their bike building is anything like their car building I'm sure they don't suck...
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/101_0178.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/100_0087.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/2.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/meandpops.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/CAAN67QT.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/100_0046.jpg)
I would have to disagree just a little...The reason that Lexus is the benchmark that all of the German cars are compared to is simple...they DO pay attention to details and have the highest rated "Fit & Finish" in the industry...Oh Yeah...Lexus is a Japanese company
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Lexus??
I'm just glad that we can keep threadjacking this thread until Jim moves it to the open forum or closes it, I'm tired of hearing about Beemer bikes on a Connie forum... :loco:
If I want to read about em I'll go to the beemer forum. (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/SmileySuicide.gif)
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I hear our commander in chief has bought one of these as a gift to a japanese prime minister. Making good use of his "Stash" ;) BMW Broke Most Widgets--fitting name 8) I wonder what tire they plan on running and if they will use a synthetic blend of german synthetics and standard french dino oil?
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:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Nicely done SoP! :hail:
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Lexus??
I'm just glad that we can keep threadjacking this thread until Jim moves it to the open forum or closes it, I'm tired of hearing about Beemer bikes on a Connie forum... :loco:
If I want to read about em I'll go to the beemer forum. (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/SmileySuicide.gif)
I agree.
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Totally agree with the comments on the C 14 linked brakes.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2012-bmw-k1600gt-vs-2011-kawasaki-concours-14-abs-video-91105.html (http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2012-bmw-k1600gt-vs-2011-kawasaki-concours-14-abs-video-91105.html)
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Good write up, but I don't think that these 2 bikes should be compared to each other. The BMW is so much more money and many more options. I think thats like comparing a touring bike to a cruiser. I don't think the concours steers heavy at all but I guess it's what bike you came off of. I came from a 900 lb Gold Wing so the concours seems very light to me. Now as far as it being a bike to go cross country on, well as I said I came from a Gold Wing and I have been cross country several times on a Wing I don't think I would want to try it on my concours. And the Wing has linked brakes so I like that, they didn't in the comparison
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Good write up, but I don't think that these 2 bikes should be compared to each other. The BMW is so much more money and many more options. I think thats like comparing a touring bike to a cruiser. I don't think the concours steers heavy at all but I guess it's what bike you came off of. I came from a 900 lb Gold Wing so the concours seems very light to me. Now as far as it being a bike to go cross country on, well as I said I came from a Gold Wing and I have been cross country several times on a Wing I don't think I would want to try it on my concours. And the Wing has linked brakes so I like that, they didn't in the comparison
+1
I suspect they may have used the stock Connie tires for their testing/evaluation of the 2 bikes.
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Time for Kawasaki to answer it with a 6cyl of its own or ... a super-charged engine. Don't forget the cruise control...
BTW, I agree with the comment about the narrow handle bars. And yes, a taller seat for me too...
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Put a set of PR3's on it, and I'm sure it would've handled better for the reviewer. I ride mine like a SS, so I like the bar position.
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Our bikes are the best bang for the buck, and an all around winner winner - chicken dinner. I'll take the 2011 Connie, spend $2.5K on farkles (get cruse control, heated Corbin seat, etc) and figure out what to do with the left over $6.5K. Hell, I can take my wife on a nice vacation. Or just buy more farkles. 8) - oh and still have money left over.
I expect the 1600 GT to be a better bike. It's like a BMW M3 is better than a Nissan 370ZX. Both nice cars, and fun to drive; but the $50K M3 beats the hell out of the $38K 370ZX any day.
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I used to think the C14 was heavy ... i came off a 2002 Nighthawk 750. but now that i have a few thousand miles on it.
it feels light and nimble all but when stopped. once i am moving it feels fine.
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Good write up, but I don't think that these 2 bikes should be compared to each other. The BMW is so much more money and many more options. I think thats like comparing a touring bike to a cruiser. I don't think the concours steers heavy at all but I guess it's what bike you came off of.
Agreed. And it is a good review of both bikes. I could nit pick some of their conclusions (like gas mileage, windshield height, steering), but they did a fair job.
If you MUST compare the two bikes, which are completely out of the same price universe, the C14 *still* does remarkably well. I don't think Kawasaki needs a 6 cyl or an "answer" to the BMW, because it will just push them right out of the reasonably priced market.
Overall, the C14 performs almost as well (better in some ways, worse in others, but close overall), is just as comfortable, has just as much storage, and has most of the high-tech amenities as the K1600 (abs, traction, computer, electric windshield, heated grips, tps, etc). And it does all that with a MUCH better warranty and MUCH lower price.
About the ONLY thing I am jealous of is the factory cruise and the tracking headlight; neither of which is a deal-breaker. If I had no C14 and were in the market to buy again, I would make the same choice- the Kawasaki (and I could afford to buy either).
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I had a 06 Wing... been cross country on that bike several times. I've been to Moonshine and back a couple times on my C14. I could do cross country on my C14 without hesitation... haven't had a reason yet.
The C14, for my comfort, only lacks CC to make a cross country run... could do without it, but would be nicer with.
I do miss the LBS of the Wing, and my old ST1300, but have gotten used to not having it. The C14, in the ST market, is the best bang for the buck you can get right now. It is a sharp twisty cutting tool that also gives you the LD riding comfort needed to get there... comes loaded with options that others charge you extra for... and it's available at a price that won't break your budget.
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I do miss the LBS of the Wing, and my old ST1300
LBS?
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LBS?
Linked Braking System. ;)
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Linked Braking System. ;)
Ah. Too many acronyms in my life. But the C-14 *has* LBS (unless you have an older Concours) and it sounded like you said you "missed it". I am curious as to why you would miss it if you didn't have it.
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Totally agree with the comments on the C 14 linked brakes.
+1
If Mama Kaw could modify the ABS software to allow the rear break peddle to only apply the rear breaks as a 3rd option to what's already there, that would be a step in the right direction IMHO.
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+1
If Mama Kaw could modify the ABS software to allow the rear break peddle to only apply the rear breaks as a 3rd option to what's already there, that would be a step in the right direction IMHO.
Doubt they would do that for us, rear braking is only 10% of a bike's stopping power and there may be some liability concerns. If someone (other than us) got used to that, then slammed the rear brake with no front they'd be splat against the vehicle in front of them.
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+1
If Mama Kaw could modify the ABS software to allow the rear break peddle to only apply the rear breaks as a 3rd option to what's already there, that would be a step in the right direction IMHO.
X2. My 2010's ABS and Linked brakes aren't working right now due to a canine issue and I have to say I love not having linked brakes.
ABS good. LBS not so much.
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I don't agree with half of the review. Calling the C14 a "sufficiently adept sport-tourer" is like calling the USS Nimitz a "boat". :o
I just came from a tour (2000 miles in 4 days) through the south of Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. I went from 40 to 100°F in loose gravel roads, Croatian back roads that made my otherwise immutable Angel's behave like if they were made of teflon :o and Slovenian roads with fantastic grip. I drove through the dry highlands in Croatia and with rain (more like a deluge) in the Alps; I went at 150 mph on the Autobahn and in 1st gear hairpins... And everything I can complain about is the heat coming out on the right side when things got toasty (first time ever in 2,5 years of ownership, so I'll look into it this weekend).
It took me and all my rubbish in comfort and style and managed 44 mpg (mine is a 2008 model, without ECO mode). It didn't use a drop of oil. With the BMW, which I sampled for about 600 miles already in 2-3 occasions, I would have been only slightly more comfortable, but I wouldn't have enjoyed the curves like I did. I got to the hotels, got rid of the bags and enjoyed my bike. With the BMW you don't get nearly as sporty, which if it's not your thing, then it's fine, of course.
I never missed power on the Kawi (quite the opposite), and I never got overwhelmed on the Beemer. The K16 is a slightly more competent tourer and can take curves at speeds that it shouldn't for its size/weight, but it isn't sporty in any sense of the word, and definitely can't touch the C14. And at 10000 less, that's a good thing.
A side note has to do with the ABS. First generation systems added up to 15 pounds to the bikes and were the size of a brick. That went down to 7 pounds recently. Last year they came out with a unit weighing less than 4 pounds and the size of a big wallet. And that progress is also on the software. The ABS actuator on the Kawasaki is the same as 4 years ago, and it shows :-\
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..... I don't think Kawasaki needs a 6 cyl or an "answer" to the BMW, because it will just push them right out of the reasonably priced market.....
Apparently the "answer" may be on the way as Kawasaki has applied for some patents on a 1400cc 4cyl engines with a supercharger. In the case of the C14, they can tune a supercharger for the low end to provide a boost in the torque. Oviously for the ZX-14 /ZZR1400, the tune would be for power.
link...
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2011/August/aug1011-kawasakis-supercharged-zzr1400-plans/Kawasaki/ZZR1400/_/R-EPI-132169 (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2011/August/aug1011-kawasakis-supercharged-zzr1400-plans/Kawasaki/ZZR1400/_/R-EPI-132169)
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:hail:
That would be wicked!
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Imagine, stump pulling diesel like torque out of this 1400cc? Well that won't affect me since mine is a new '11 and I'm not going to be in the market for a new Connie for another 75K - 100K miles.
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Ah. Too many acronyms in my life. But the C-14 *has* LBS (unless you have an older Concours) and it sounded like you said you "missed it". I am curious as to why you would miss it if you didn't have it.
I have a 09 C14, no LBS on it... and the LBS that Kawasaki does offer isn't the same as how Honda deploys theirs.
I miss not having LBS, Honda's version anyway...
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I have a 09 C14, no LBS on it... and the LBS that Kawasaki does offer isn't the same as how Honda deploys theirs.
I miss not having LBS, Honda's version anyway...
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/goHonda.gif)
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I'm not CycleWorld but here is the situation: 2 weeks ago I did a 1800 miles trip from Munich, Germany, to Dubrovnik, Croatia on my 1400GTR, and had a blast. I did it alone, so no girlfriend hitting my ribs when exceeding... ahem... some speed (2 gentlemen in blue uniform in Slovenia were kind enough to let me go with just a warning ;D). I truly bonded with my bike; I had longer trips in the past but for some reason I enjoyed this one the most.
Anyway, my girlfriend decided for me that we need a holiday together, and we are doing a similar trip this weekend, this time 2-up, obviously, but with one twist: I managed to snatch a K1600 GTL for the trip, so although the conditions are not the same (it's a GTL, not a GT, and the ballast girlfriend will be there) I'll be doing pretty much half the trip on the same roads as last time, with the exception of the last leg of the trip, Zagreb-Dubrovnik, which I will replace with Zagreb-Budapest. Total mileage will be about 1300.
I'll try to pay attention to the few things that where discussed here and form an opinion. As I stated before, I think this bike is better suited for the kind of driving I'll be doing, that is, more relaxed and touring oriented and not so agressive. Will see.
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I'll be looking forward to the review. I would also think that the BMW GTL would be better suited for a less aggressive trip with speed limiting ballast. My ballast doesn't like to ride at all. I've told her that if she did want to start riding with me, I would get a Goldwing for that purpose in a heart beat.
I'm not CycleWorld but here is the situation: 2 weeks ago I did a 1800 miles trip from Munich, Germany, to Dubrovnik, Croatia on my 1400GTR, and had a blast. I did it alone, so no girlfriend hitting my ribs when exceeding... ahem... some speed (2 gentlemen in blue uniform in Slovenia were kind enough to let me go with just a warning ;D). I truly bonded with my bike; I had longer trips in the past but for some reason I enjoyed this one the most.
Anyway, my girlfriend decided for me that we need a holiday together, and we are doing a similar trip this weekend, this time 2-up, obviously, but with one twist: I managed to snatch a K1600 GTL for the trip, so although the conditions are not the same (it's a GTL, not a GT, and the ballast girlfriend will be there) I'll be doing pretty much half the trip on the same roads as last time, with the exception of the last leg of the trip, Zagreb-Dubrovnik, which I will replace with Zagreb-Budapest. Total mileage will be about 1300.
I'll try to pay attention to the few things that where discussed here and form an opinion. As I stated before, I think this bike is better suited for the kind of driving I'll be doing, that is, more relaxed and touring oriented and not so agressive. Will see.
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Martin, start a new thread with that comparison, please.