Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: jddetroit on July 27, 2011, 10:12:02 AM
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My bike shifts miserably.
I was initially inclined to think that perhaps the oil I was using was the culprit, however after switching several times, I'm getting the same result.
The shifter is just VERY notchy, and not at all smooth. Almost like it clicks twice to engage a gear. Downshifting is equally crappy.
On my hardly, I can mimic these symptoms when the clutch is out of adjustment, and simply adjust to smooth it out.
No adjustment on a hydraulic clutch. (that I'm aware of)
I'm now looking at my master cylinder, and am thinking about flushing/bleeding to see if this helps.
Just wondering if anyone has had similar issues, and if this bleed/flush helped at all?
I suppose if this doesn't work, I'll take her in. Just hate to do that, as the dealer will probably have it for 2 weeks.
thanks
JD
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You might try one of these
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=463&osCsid=b9dfcf098ddd2f2ef739bf1670234c57 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=463&osCsid=b9dfcf098ddd2f2ef739bf1670234c57)
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warranty man will fix it.
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You might try one of these
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=463&osCsid=b9dfcf098ddd2f2ef739bf1670234c57 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=463&osCsid=b9dfcf098ddd2f2ef739bf1670234c57)
I put one of these shifter bearing kits on my bike, and it make a remarkable difference. Much more than I expected for sure.
Dave
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I don't think adding the shifter mod will help. Sounds like he's got a problem. I would try flushing out the fluid first. Don't run it dry, though, or you will be in for a heck of a time getting the air out.
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Yeah, it's definitely not the shift lever.
Oddly, at lunch, I remembered there are 'adjustments' on the clutch lever. I set mine at 1, and it seemed to smooth out a bit, leading me to believe my culprit lies within that hydraulic system.
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Yeah, it's definitely not the shift lever.
Oddly, at lunch, I remembered there are 'adjustments' on the clutch lever. I set mine at 1, and it seemed to smooth out a bit, leading me to believe my culprit lies within that hydraulic system.
Glad to have you back. What took so long?
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I never left! Just haven't posted much since the changeover.
I'm hoping to have a chance to get to that flush/bleed tonight. Will post tomorrow, if it worked.
-JD
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Quick update: it appears the erratic clutch operation was due to a totally dry clutch pivot point and clutch lever. I pulled it apart and it was dry as the proverbial bone. That was a bit surprising too because I tend to apply a bit of grease to the levers and pedals a couple of times per year. Maybe it was the extended riding in the rain the bike has been through recently that drove the grease out. Both levers and the shift pivot linkage were totally dry; a spot of grease and the clutch is working correctly again although with a slight 'creaking' when it is released slowly.
Brian
I am chasing a similar problem with the clutch. The free play is changing all the time and while I don't have any trouble shifting the bike, it changes the engagement point of the clutch and makes it hard to launch the bike. It is something in the hydraulic system almost certainly. I did have a similar thing happen before but it was always a big gain in free play when the bike was warm and that turned out to be a worn slave cylinder on the bike (replaced under warranty). I suspect this time it may be the master cylinder but will have to take a look inside to be sure. My bike does have a lot of miles on it though so a worn MC seal set would not be unexpected.
Brian
Yeah, it's definitely not the shift lever.
Oddly, at lunch, I remembered there are 'adjustments' on the clutch lever. I set mine at 1, and it seemed to smooth out a bit, leading me to believe my culprit lies within that hydraulic system.
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I actually have something similar happening to me but not very often. It happens more when it's hot outside and I've been holding the clutch lever in for a bit and then let go. If I let go of the lever too slowly it acts like the clutch is slipping and it makes a growling type noise. Strange... Fluid has been changed on a yearly basis and the oil is Mobil 1 MC oil.
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How many years on your fluid? I neglected the clutch fluid on my 99 VFR for so long that the the clutch started acting like you describe. Flushed and replaced the fluid and now all is well.
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Fluid was original (08), and very dark. Lots of what looked like rubber sediment in the mc.
With much cussing, and the aid of a beer, I think I got her bled out. Slave cylinder bled easily, but the MC was a major pain!
Open the garage door to give her a test ride, and.....it's pouring..... >:(
Will determine if this fixed it within the next couple of days.
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Yeah, it's definitely not the shift lever.
Oddly, at lunch, I remembered there are 'adjustments' on the clutch lever. I set mine at 1, and it seemed to smooth out a bit, leading me to believe my culprit lies within that hydraulic system.
If we are talking about the same "adjustments", they are on both the clutch and the brake levers, but all they do is change the distance between the lever and the grip to account for the different hand and finger sizes of different riders. Adjustments here shouldn't change the play between the lever position and engagement.
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Do these Concours14's has clutch and transmission problems? Or is this the first case. Well I read two, but that fellow said he needed grease on his clutch lever bolt. (or something to that effect)
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In answer to RiderRich, my 08 has no problems and shifts very nicely. I have changed the clutch fluid once but it was just normal maintenance. Be careful reinstalling the gasket on top of the reservoir. It's easy to get it mis-aligned, then you get clutch fluid spraying on you as you go down the road. DAMHIK
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The following probably does not apply to your situation because you say the problem is in both up and down shifting. MY problem was hard or no downshifting only. What happened was I failed to properly tightened the shift linkage lock nut ( used only one wrench ). The locknut backed off and vibration caused the linkage to self adjust to the point there was not enough downward travel to complete a downshift. Downshifting got harder and harder until eventually I found myself stuck in 6th. I figured it out as soon as I got off the bike but for a few moments I though my tranny was fooked.
I think it is not possible to adjust the linkage such that both up and down shifts are affected but it would not hurt to check.
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Intersting because some folks would consider the inability to downshift just another <k-word> problem.
(http://zggtr.org/Smileys/default/ROTFLMAO.gif)
Brian
The following probably does not apply to your situation because you say the problem is in both up and down shifting. MY problem was hard or no downshifting only. What happened was I failed to properly tightened the shift linkage lock nut ( used only one wrench ). The locknut backed off and vibration caused the linkage to self adjust to the point there was not enough downward travel to complete a downshift. Downshifting got harder and harder until eventually I found myself stuck in 6th. I figured it out as soon as I got off the bike but for a few moments I though my tranny was fooked.
I think it is not possible to adjust the linkage such that both up and down shifts are affected but it would not hurt to check.
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Brain, you are right! It WAS a K-Word problem- indirectly... I just realized why I have gotten so forgetful since owning my C14 (always forgetting to tighten fasteners). Kipass makes riding so stress free I have gotten mentally lazy! I always used to worry about losing my keys. I used to wear a spare key on achain around my neck like Frodo and the Ring Of Doom. Now I am so relaxed ... I am TOO relaxed!
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Intersting because some folks would consider the inability to downshift just another <k-word> problem.
(http://zggtr.org/Smileys/default/ROTFLMAO.gif)
Brian
Brian, you are right! It WAS a K-Word problem- indirectly... I just realized why I have gotten so forgetful since owning my C14 (always forgetting to tighten fasteners). Kipass makes riding so stress free I have gotten mentally lazy! I always used to worry about losing my keys. I used to wear a spare key on achain around my neck like Frodo and the Ring Of Doom. Now I am so relaxed ... I am TOO relaxed!
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol.gif)(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol.gif)(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol.gif)
You guys are great
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All things are <k-word> problems, indirectly.
First humans thought the visible universe rotated around the Earth.
Then some discovered it seemed to rotate around the Sun (Heliocentric model).
Finally, we now know that the universe revolves around Akashi, Japan, where fobs are first mated to their respective C-14s.
Sorry, couldn't resist. ;D
Brian
Brain, you are right! It WAS a K-Word problem- indirectly... I just realized why I have gotten so forgetful since owning my C14 (always forgetting to tighten fasteners). Kipass makes riding so stress free I have gotten mentally lazy! I always used to worry about losing my keys. I used to wear a spare key on achain around my neck like Frodo and the Ring Of Doom. Now I am so relaxed ... I am TOO relaxed!
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Well, after flushing and bleeding, it seems to have done the trick. Like Buttah!
I suppose somehow, air got into the system, or there was enough of that black rubber-like crap floating around in there, to maybe partially plug a port. dunno. Do know that she's working better than she has in a long time. I'd forgotten how smooth she was supposed to be!
-JD
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I actually have something similar happening to me but not very often. It happens more when it's hot outside and I've been holding the clutch lever in for a bit and then let go. If I let go of the lever too slowly it acts like the clutch is slipping and it makes a growling type noise. Strange... Fluid has been changed on a yearly basis and the oil is Mobil 1 MC oil.
+1 I hate to even get in on this one since I don't think that the C14 is having tranny issues on a wide spread basis but...since new, mine has had the same "groan" sound when I let the clutch out too slow. not too often and I think it's more me than the bike but it's definately there. Bike is just under a year old 2010 with just over 7000 miles. Other than the kawi oil it came with, it's always seen Mobil 1 4T 10-40.
As for the OP's post, FWIW, mine shifted rough for the first 2500 or so and now shifts pretty smooth without the "notchiness".
Let us know the outcome. :popcorn:
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Well, after flushing and bleeding, it seems to have done the trick. Like Buttah!
I suppose somehow, air got into the system, or there was enough of that black rubber-like crap floating around in there, to maybe partially plug a port. dunno. Do know that she's working better than she has in a long time. I'd forgotten how smooth she was supposed to be!
-JD
Good, glad it's better for you. BTW, didn't you used to have a zombie looking avatar awhile back?
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In answer to RiderRich, my 08 has no problems and shifts very nicely. I have changed the clutch fluid once but it was just normal maintenance. Be careful reinstalling the gasket on top of the reservoir. It's easy to get it mis-aligned, then you get clutch fluid spraying on you as you go down the road. DAMHIK
+1 on the gasket! :o It helps to put the gasket on the plastic cover before installing.
My shift lever needed a slight adjustment to lengthen the throw from the factory to get smooth shifting.
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Good, glad it's better for you. BTW, didn't you used to have a zombie looking avatar awhile back?
HuH? Whatcha mean? ;)
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Excellent! It's strange but after all these years I associate people's forum names with specific avatars. Yours is one that has stuck with me as has Poke's. There are many others as well. I see the name and the picture pops up.
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Well, after flushing and bleeding, it seems to have done the trick. Like Buttah!
I suppose somehow, air got into the system, or there was enough of that black rubber-like crap floating around in there, to maybe partially plug a port. dunno. Do know that she's working better than she has in a long time. I'd forgotten how smooth she was supposed to be!
-JD
If the fluid had not been changed since 2008 it may have absorbed enough moisture to make it hydualically ineffective. Moisture lowers the boiling point.
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Guys,
I have a 2009 model bought in 2011. Does the bike leave factory with the break/clutch fluids or does the dealer put them in? If mother kawi puts them in,, I should change them?
I feel my clutch is not engaging fully because going at 10~15 miles, if I shift from 2nd to 1st I feel a small jerk even if I haven't released the clutch lever at all. I don't think my other bikes did that. (though on a center stand, rear tire doesn't turn if I pull the clutch all the way in).
Maybe I should replace fluids that are due in 2yrs.
Thanks,
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When I bought mine, the dealer told me all they had to do when they pulled the bike out of the crate was install the windshield, and put one saddle bag on, and run down a pre-deliver check list.
They only charged me $68 to drive across town to get the crate from another dealer, and setup up the bike. He said anything more and he felt he would be taking advantage of me.
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Excellent! It's strange but after all these years I associate people's forum names with specific avatars. Yours is one that has stuck with me as has Poke's. There are many others as well. I see the name and the picture pops up.
Hmm, I guess this means I should get off my lazy butt and get a crazy avatar, so you'll never forget me, eh Jim?
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Quite so, but let's hope it's in a good way....
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Fixed it for ya', at least in some cases. ;D ;D
I am kidding here- my dealer was excellent and there were no problems with my bike from new. Other than the scratch on the front fender that it got when someone dropped a Gold Wing (Hondapotamus, 'Old Wing') on it but I blame that on Honda anyway. And the dealer ordered a new front fender before they even put the bike on the showroom floor.
Brian
When I bought mine, the dealer told me all they had to do when they pulled the bike out of the crate was install the windshield, and put one saddle bag on, cross thread a bolt or two and run down a pre-deliver check list.
They only charged me $68 to drive across town to get the crate from another dealer, and setup up the bike. He said anything more and he felt he would be taking advantage of me.
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Fixed it for ya', at least in some cases. ;D ;D
I am kidding here- my dealer was excellent and there were no problems with my bike from new. Other than the scratch on the front fender that it got when someone dropped a Gold Wing (Hondapotamus, 'Old Wing') on it but I blame that on Honda anyway. And the dealer ordered a new front fender before they even put the bike on the showroom floor.
Brian
Didn't need fixing for me, maybe for others. So far, no cross threaded or stripped out issues that I know of anyway.