Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: Bob on July 23, 2011, 06:25:07 AM
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Well I never have owned one of these hybrid cars and trucks that a common place in today's world. I figured that I would give them time to sort themselves out and see how reliable they would be down the road.
Well it's been a while now and I decided maybe that i might try one down the road. Then one of our Ford Escapes might have changed my mind. The Ford Escape hybrid uses Toyota technology. We have a bunch of these little gutless wonders at work. I have found them to have problems climbing out of holes onto roads coming from off road to highway. Yes we actually take our trucks off road.
We now one of them developed transmission troubles and needs a new tranny. (hey it happens) Now we have found out that Ford wants you to replace the motor and transmission if the transmission goes bad. If you don't, Ford will not warranty the transmission. This is a very exorbitant cost IMO. I guess the company feels the same way. They have decided to scrap any of the Escape Hybrids like this now. And like I said, it has me rethinking buying a Hybrid!!!! ??? I always wondered if the fuel mileage was worth the extra costs. I never thought they would be worth it!
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That's ridiculous on Fords part. So are they disposable cars? How does this help the environment exactly? I'm wondering what's going to happen to the first and second generation hybrids when the battery capacity diminishes ? Imagine the bill on changing out the battery pack, more people will probably be scrapping them when it happens.
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Hey Cap'n! May I suggest that some of the problems might be in that Ford and the other American manufacturers are really still in the early generations of their Hybrid "learning curve". And also that overall, American manufacturers have lagged in quality (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/cr-recommended/best-worst-in-car-reliability/reliability-findings/reliability-findings.htm) generally speaking.
But for them to demand a whole new power-train???
But I think the real problem lies in that: As long as we pursue "Hybrid" tech we are in effect adding exponentially to the complexity of the power-train. No wonder they cost so much...
Did you know that a true electric car requires no transmission at all?
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That's ridiculous on Fords part. So are they disposable cars? How does this help the environment exactly? I'm wondering what's going to happen to the first and second generation hybrids when the battery capacity diminishes ? Imagine the bill on changing out the battery pack, more people will probably be scrapping them when it happens.
No kidding. From what I've heard its about $3000 for a new pack, However a lot of people are finding they get about 100,000mi according to a quick review on priuschat.com (http://priuschat.com)
But ultimately this is one of the reasons to push for more research into efficient hydrogen production, and we can move along to fuel calls for electricity.
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Hybrids suck! IMHO. I would grab a VW diesel if you want to save fuel costs. Or an Audi A3 diesel. Tons of power in new diesel engines. For SUVs I own a 2008 Dodge Durango Hemi. I get over 18 mpg. It runs on 4 cylinders when you are light on the pedal, so I could easily get over 20 mpg if I tried. My old Chrysler 300 hemi was getting 24 mpg all day long with tons of power when needed.
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+1 VW TDI
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Is that 100k miles on the battery or the CAR? 100k miles on the car could have zero miles on te battery because it also has a gasoline engine. A friend's son is a Toyota/Lexus tech and hasn't seen one replaced yet.
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215k on my Prius....no issues. Sorry, 218k and it runs on regular gas. No problems climbing mountains and no loss of power running AC. Haven't changed out the front brake pads either.
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Hybrids suck! IMHO. I would grab a VW diesel if you want to save fuel costs. Or an Audi A3 diesel. Tons of power in new diesel engines. For SUVs I own a 2008 Dodge Durango Hemi. I get over 18 mpg. It runs on 4 cylinders when you are light on the pedal, so I could easily get over 20 mpg if I tried. My old Chrysler 300 hemi was getting 24 mpg all day long with tons of power when needed.
Your preaching to the choir on the dubs. Here's mine:
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/roadkoan/owslafa/P1000304.jpg)
1980 VW Caddy 1.9td (the AAZ) no shortage of go-fast, hauls a 4x8 or 900lbs factory bed rating, and 43MPG
Right now she's down getting new wires and a set of '59 caddilac taillights:
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/roadkoan/owslafa/taillights/0320111353a.jpg)
I'd love one of the A3's for my winter beater. :o
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equip hybrids with KiPass and they'll be monster machines 8)
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equip hybrids with KiPass and they'll be monster machines 8)
I have something similar on mine which is one of the reasons I was tempted to the C14.
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A-3 Quatro is probably the smartest buys out there, but yes it is priced a little north for me. I have a 2010 Toyota Corolla 5 speed. I get 36 mpg on a regular basis and hate everything about the car except the fuel economy. And I really do hate it. I have only driven it 3 times since the snow went away. The Durango is what my wife drives. We need the kid-capacity of it.
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Hybrids are a joke.......here is my new ride!!!! Sporty.....comfy.....great fuel economy....and in the snow and bad weather "try to keep up"!!!
(http://www.autobase.com/photos/00640/0496/04967672_001.jpg)
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Nice choice POKEY! You look like the STI type though. Subaru make a very reliable AWD car. They don't even know how to make a 2wd. I had a 1991 Legacy around the time Subaru was changing their image. Your going to love that car.
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My answer to the question...
(http://gallery.darladog.com/d/42-1/IMG_2154.jpg)
We're at 206,000 miles now, lifetime average of 48.2mpg, has Never let us down (though we had batteries give out in the AZ heat, and a cracked brake boost line that reduced braking... you know, annoying stuff). With Nokian tires, we drove it all over the Rockies.. parents ski cabin in Montana, my home in Wyoming, then a later home in Colorado, only ever got it stuck once when I was blazing up my parents unplowed drive with 4~5" of fresh, wet snow and high-centered on my bash plate. Dang thing just won't quit. It's not a track-day car, but we don't do 20,000 miles of track days every year. It's a commuter car, and beats the Snot out of every other commuter car we've tried.
Granted, it was LOTS better back when diesel was cheaper than gas (and it was all under $2/gallon). We did 800 mile tanks for under a $20 fill
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I had an 03 VW TDI Golf. It got 43 mpg no matter how fast you pushed it. Diesel was priced at $1.40 per gal. and gas was $1.50 per gal. It was a 5-speed so I got the full effect of German engineering. It was 1 of the funnest rides I owned. I put 125,000 miles on it in 2 years.
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My first car was a VW Rabbit Diesel. 52~55mpg. Sucked on hills, though. But, I was a teenager, had a car, and diesel was under $1 per gallon. I could fill the thing and drive it for two weeks on less than $10. (And I was earning about $6.50/hr at the time)
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Screw the greenies.
Tttbss does wheel stand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stRulSUCKgw#)
TT TBSS does wheel stand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjWwHPHxfi0#ws)
Worlds fastest tbss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGaUyTnAnOw#ws)
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I didn't buy mine to go 'green'. I bought it to save money on gas. So far I'm quite pleased with the longevity of it and the average fuel mileage which is 50+.
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I'm wondering what's going to happen to the first and second generation hybrids when the battery capacity diminishes ? Imagine the bill on changing out the battery pack, more people will probably be scrapping them when it happens.
Not just the cost of replacing batteries, but consider the impact of disposing of them. Was talking with a collision repair guy I know... there is a high percentage of hybrids that get "totaled" due to internal damage when batteries shift in a crash.
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Not just the cost of replacing batteries, but consider the impact of disposing of them. Was talking with a collision repair guy I know... there is a high percentage of hybrids that get "totaled" due to internal damage when batteries shift in a crash.
Not to mention the problems emergency responders have when attempting to get people out and towing them. Electrocutions and serious injuries.....
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Nice choice POKEY! You look like the STI type though. Subaru make a very reliable AWD car. They don't even know how to make a 2wd. I had a 1991 Legacy around the time Subaru was changing their image. Your going to love that car.
I love the WRX, but have no desire for an STi, I am having a hard enough time keeping this one at the speed limits!! I just got back from a work trip to Bowling Green KY and averaged 27/29 mpg for the trip "that is plenty good in my opinion." ;) It hauls ass up hills, corners like a sports car, has a very nice comfy ride......... and has awesome torque, I have the 5 speed by the way. There is absolutely no need for hybrids, the technology for getting seriously good gas mileage would be very easy to obtain "if they would just do it"!!!!! >:(
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I love the WRX, but have no desire for an STi
In case anyone is reading this and looking for an STi, there's a 2008 available at a dealer near Albany, NY. (http://www.langanaudieast.com/used/Subaru/2008-Subaru-Impreza+WRX-424a88d80a0d06490015d87c64459f1e.htm) DON'T buy it. I know the guy that traded it in. Seriously - Don't buy it.
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Nobody buys used STIs. It's like buying used Bottle-rockets and firecrackers
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I love the WRX, but have no desire for an STi, I am having a hard enough time keeping this one at the speed limits!! I just got back from a work trip to Bowling Green KY and averaged 27/29 mpg for the trip "that is plenty good in my opinion." ;) It hauls ass up hills, corners like a sports car, has a very nice comfy ride......... and has awesome torque, I have the 5 speed by the way. There is absolutely no need for hybrids, the technology for getting seriously good gas mileage would be very easy to obtain "if they would just do it"!!!!! >:(
Ah yes, but they really haven't, have they? So until they do, I'm sticking with me hybrid... If I can get 300k out of the beast and have to replace the batteries...big whup. I'm happy with that. Engine looks like it will go that far as well.
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I've worked on quoting and building assembly automation systems for hybrid batteries in the Leaf, Volt, and new Fiat 500 coming out. I don't think I've met a customer manufacturing engineer yet that would buy one. Add the government incentives to the manufactures to build lines for volumes that don't exist, government incentives to the consumer, and then a premium cost still on top of that.......... How does this make sense?
Lithium Ion, car batteries or camera batteries, I have a pretty good idea what they cost, and I can tell you your not going to change your new generation all electric battery for under 5 figures.
And then we can talk about solar panels............
Automotive is doing it for the fleet mileage and government incentives and power companies for green quota requirements.......... all paid by the tax payer.
I should not complain because my company has profited greatly by the "stimulus"; but, the payback for investment can not stand on it's own.
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I've worked on quoting and building assembly automation systems for hybrid batteries in the Leaf, Volt, and new Fiat 500 coming out. I don't think I've met a customer manufacturing engineer yet that would buy one. Add the government incentives to the manufactures to build lines for volumes that don't exist, government incentives to the consumer, and then a premium cost still on top of that.......... How does this make sense?
Lithium Ion, car batteries or camera batteries, I have a pretty good idea what they cost, and I can tell you your not going to change your new generation all electric battery for under 5 figures.
And then we can talk about solar panels............
Automotive is doing it for the fleet mileage and government incentives and power companies for green quota requirements.......... all paid by the tax payer.
I should not complain because my company has profited greatly by the "stimulus"; but, the payback for investment can not stand on it's own.
All well and probably true. But what you're overlooking is that if there's no "push" to get this technology to the point where it does become economically feasible without incentives, then it likely never will happen. Or happen when it's too late to do us any damn good. Sometimes these "bad investments" are the only way to make any progress, since companies are profit-oriented (like yours) and R&D budgets never big enough.
Electric cars make a certain amount of sense, especially since most driving is within urban areas.
Personally, I think the world would be a better place and have plenty of oil if EVERYONE rode motorcycles (as long as they're not HDs). :P
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My previous employer of 2 weeks ago "GE" makes me sick about their whole "fake" green campaign. At least it got them a massive tax ride off with BHO. ::)
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My previous employer of 2 weeks ago "GE" makes me sick about their whole "fake" green campaign. At least it got them a massive tax ride off with BHO. ::)
But Obama loves GE when it comes to campaign contributions.
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My previous employer of 2 weeks ago "GE" makes me sick about their whole "fake" green campaign. At least it got them a massive tax ride off with BHO. ::)
GE polluted the Hudson river for years dumping PCB's into the river. Then when they were ordered to clean it up. They spent millions and millions in ad campanes and fighting the clean up. Yeah they are so green! :o
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Looks like 'Bob' left us....
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I was thinking about a Civic hybrid when the current civic needs replacing. But now i'm having second thoughts! :o
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From what I've read and seen and been trained on, injuries and electrocutions are not a worry to me from hybrids because they simply do not happen. I've never heard if it happening, if it has, it would be very rare indeed, and most likely connected to something else attributed to the hybrid, I mean, you'd really have to go out of your way to try to get electrocuted. There are of course exceptions.
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From what I've read and seen and been trained on, injuries and electrocutions are not a worry to me from hybrids because they simply do not happen. I've never heard if it happening, if it has, it would be very rare indeed, and most likely connected to something else attributed to the hybrid, I mean, you'd really have to go out of your way to try to get electrocuted. There are of course exceptions.
If you are in an accident the picture changes.
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I like my Prius, but I think with the current and potential market of autos that are getting decent mileage, I may look at a conventional car in the future. I am not going to buy a roller skate car for good gas mileage. The Prius is roomy (05) and it's power band suits me. I can pass when I want to and it works well, but the cost vs the gas mileage will have to be taken into account on a new purchase. I can't complain about the vehicle at all. It has served me well in my style of driving which is all over the state of Virginia. This morning I'm averaging 55mpg + at high speeds around the DC beltway (early in the morning).
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If you are in an accident the picture changes.
How does that picture change?
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Yes, I'd like to know how one get electrocuted or injured from electricity while in a hybrid in a crash. I'm not being sarcastic, I'd like to know if you got new info cause I'm the guy thats going to be getting you out of them if you do crash.
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Yes, I'd like to know how one get electrocuted or injured from electricity while in a hybrid in a crash. I'm not being sarcastic, I'd like to know if you got new info cause I'm the guy thats going to be getting you out of them if you do crash.
http://www.gizmag.com/nfpa-teaching-ev-safety-to-first-responders/17677/ (http://www.gizmag.com/nfpa-teaching-ev-safety-to-first-responders/17677/)
Make sure you cut the power before you do anything. If you do no problem.
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Thats the info I have too, so nothing new for me. Thanks though.
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Thats the info I have too, so nothing new for me. Thanks though.
I have been told that towing company's in Calif were refusing to tow hybrids and EV's. But again the industry is rife with rumor.
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If you cannot cut the power that is where rescue workers can run into problems with cutting into power cables.
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Yeah Blue, theres a lot of mis-information out there, I can only imagine with the amount of hybrids in CA these days.
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In 1984 I bought a Ford escort wagon diesel. 57 mpg on the road 42 city. They made them for four years, they put them in Rangers also. To bad the body didn't last.
Jack
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Yeah Blue, theres a lot of mis-information out there, I can only imagine with the amount of hybrids in CA these days.
And in northern VA....