Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: 556ALPHA on July 14, 2011, 07:08:00 PM
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I communicated with Phil a while back and he told me that Murph was going to taking over in the Wedge production department. Recently Phil posted on the wedges and I communicated with Murph about purchasing them. I received them today and got to wrenching. The install is straightforward and easily done by the average shade tree mechanic. The quality of the products are outstanding and do as advertised. The bar ends are raised, and for me it improves the comfort. Below are some photos, they were taken on the center stand and from the same reference point.
Unpackaged
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/2007electraroad/030.jpg)
Before
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/2007electraroad/027.jpg)
After
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/2007electraroad/040.jpg)
side shot showing wedge between risers and clip ons
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/2007electraroad/IMG_0097.jpg)
top view
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/2007electraroad/IMG_0096.jpg)
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These are still not showing up on the website...are they available for purchase already?
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These are still not showing up on the website...are they available for purchase already?
Yep, that is what I was going to say. And the "but what if" bolts question.
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I think Murph may try and get them up on the site this weekend and the bolts he supplied with his style of risers fit perfectly, pictures added.
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How much are those?
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I have seen a couple of threads about "wedges", but I don't understand what they are doing. Can someone explain this to me or hook me up with a good link? How much riser can be handled by the C14 without getting into the cables/lines? Is there a popular size that works for most guys? Thanks all. :)
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Maybe I can help, the "Wedges" are a pair of machined aluminum shims shaped like the base of the handlebar stanchion, that is angled at 6 degrees, with the thin side nearest the steering bearing. They go between the base and top-clamp and the wedge shape tilts the stanchion toward the steering bearing which elevates the handlebar ends about an inch and makes them more horizontal. It also brings them closer to the driver a small amount. The effect is to remove some of the compound twist in your wrists. They come with special washers made with the same 6 deg. angle that allows the bolt heads to bottom correctly. They don't affect the hydraulic hoses much and can be used on top of riser blocks. They do add 1/4" & 1/2" to the required bolt length. Murph is supplying them and he also has longer bolts, so tell him if you have riser-blocks or not.
This photo may help, it shows the difference in handle-bar orientation with the wedge: (http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc213/philipintexas/Wedges/WedgeEffectJul2010.jpg)
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Thanks, great explanation. I was on murph's site doing a little "research" and ordered up the KB riser and fenda extenda deal. I'll give the risers a shot. I am 30 and came to this bike from a R1, so I am way more comfortable on it, but I think I would like a little more rise. I ran some heli-bar clip-ons on my R1 that added some rise and I loved it.
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http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=466 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=466)
Here ya go
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
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Murph, any chance you're going to have an option for use with the taller Heli risers in the near future?
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http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=466 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=466)
Here ya go
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
Thanks Murph! By the way, it is possible to get both sets of bolts, on set for mounting without the risers and one set for mounting with the risers? I have your risers but don't always use them.
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http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=466 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=466)
Here ya go
Murph
Kewl!
>"We will be adding bolt lengths for taller risers in the future. "
I will probably order them as soon as you have the Helibar risers bolts-included option!
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The longer bolts for use with the "other" 8) guys Risers should be here mid next week. We will also be offering bits and pieces such as spare angle washers and different length bolts.
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
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Ordered mine today. Couldn't wait for the longer bolts for my "other" guys risers. I'll work it out. Can't wait. Thanks Phil and Murph!
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question then, will the wedges work without any risers? Do you have correct bolt length for that setup? I'm looking for a little more comfort, and think just the wedges would do exactly what I want!
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Cheap
theres is a drop down selection to order the wedges with bolts needed to run them under just the stock bars.. ;)
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
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I'm likely going to order a set for my bike since I removed the Heli bar risers and went back to stock, but maybe I have missed it, what are folks saying about the comfort of these that have installed them? Is there another thread? I'm particularly interested in hearing from anyone who has installed on the stock bars.
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Con,
Theres other threads, but hey, its a Murphs' product, try it out, if you don't like it return it and your just out the cost of shipping..
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
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I had a set that I bought from Phil previously that was used only with stock bars. The feeling is the same just higher with risers. It will bring your hands closer together somewhat making your grip slightly narrower.
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Do you need to modify the cables or hoses with the risers and wedges? I already have the risers and the cables and hoses seem a bit tight.
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Do you need to modify the cables or hoses with the risers and wedges? I already have the risers and the cables and hoses seem a bit tight.
You said "the risers" without say which. There are several.
Regardless, I will let others who have done it speak from experience... but, the wedges are very short. Plus they angle the bars IN, not out, so that should reduce the length of the hoses from the wedges to the grips. I have the tallest risers offered (Helibars) and there still seems to be some extra wiggle room from the hose mounts to the bike. I don't think adding the wedges will be a problem.
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I put a set of wedges on my Heli Bar Risers and I am still running the stock lines on my 09 C14. Since Phill did not supply bolts for the risers I changed the 80mm long bolts that came with my risers to 90mm. Love the combination & it works great for me. :D
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just pulled the trigger. ;D
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also just ordered a rack from Phil. :o Dammit! :nuts:
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:o
I put a set of wedges on my Heli Bar Risers and I am still running the stock lines on my 09 C14. Since Phill did not supply bolts for the risers I changed the 80mm long bolts that came with my risers to 90mm. Love the combination & it works great for me. :D
I too had the wedges installed along with Heli bars, and had no problems with the stock lines...
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The 90MM long bolts for using the "other" 8) guys 2 inche risers are in now. I hope my webmen will have it listed in the nexy day or two.
Best
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
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The 90MM long bolts for using the "other" 8) guys 2 inche risers are in now. I hope my webmen will have it listed in the nexy day or two.
Best
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
And here I thought I was going to make it a few weeks without spending any money on farkles.
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And here I thought I was going to make it a few weeks without spending any money on farkles.
Yeah, me too. Said I needed the longer bolts, he stood behind his word, so am I :) Order placed.
Figured I would try those super headlight bulbs also, so I threw a pair in. OOOh they are expensive, I hope they live up to the hype!
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I'd like to offer a caution to everyone who has the wedges and plans to install them in conjunction with riser-blocks. The wedges must be placed on TOP of any riser-blocks. Since the bolts fit snugly through the riser-blocks, tilting the riser by having the wedges underneath, will cause the bolts to be tilted also and they won't be perpendicular to the top-clamp. This might bend the bolts or damage the threads in the top-clamp. It may also affect tightening the bolts to the correct torque.
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I'd like to offer a caution to everyone who has the wedges and plans to install them in conjunction with riser-blocks. The wedges must be placed on TOP of any riser-blocks. Since the bolts fit snugly through the riser-blocks, tilting the riser by having the wedges underneath, will cause the bolts to be tilted also and they won't be perpendicular to the top-clamp. This might bend the bolts or damage the threads in the top-clamp. It may also affect tightening the bolts to the correct torque.
Thank you for that warning, because it was (for me at least) unclear. Perhaps it might be in some included directions, but I don't have the package yet.
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The 5th picture in my initial post of this thread shows the correct position as advised by Phil.
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/2007electraroad/IMG_0097.jpg)
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I just put a set on over the weekend. I already have Murph's risers, and just added the wedges to the "pile". Thanks to Phil and Murph - they came with good instructions, were easy to install, and make a subtle but very noticeable difference!
Ride safe... 8)
Dave
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2 questions....what is the recommended bold length with just the wedges, no risers? I'm using the standard bolts right now and it seems like there is enough thread, but I'm thinking not enough.
Also, is anyone using a Techmount GPS holder with the wedges? I would assume longer bolts are needed, but does it bolt down correctly?
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You'll need 6 ea. 35 mm long. The holes go all the way through the top-clamp so the bolts can be on the long side.
I believe people have used the Techmount, the holes still line up the same, the counter-bores may be snug.
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You'll need 6 ea. 35 mm long. The holes go all the way through the top-clamp so the bolts can be on the long side.
I believe people have used the Techmount, the holes still line up the same, the counter-bores may be snug.
Thanks. What is the specific type of cap head screw needed for strength? are these available at someplace like Lowe's? McMaster-Carr has packs of 25 and up.
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Thanks. What is the specific type of cap head screw needed for strength? are these available at someplace like Lowe's? McMaster-Carr has packs of 25 and up.
The best place to find bolts is through www.Fastenal.com (http://www.Fastenal.com) They have stores located throughout the country or you can order straight from their website.
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We have the bolts
all in ZInc DIN 10.9 same as stock
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=467 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=467)
murph
COH 2769
Indstry Member
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Fastenal was on my way home yesterday, so I went by and got 6 DIN 12.9 bolts. all they had was black in that strength and that was fine with me since the guy just gave them to me for free :D
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I know Murph went to a lot of trouble & expense to obtain bolts of greater strength than stock. This brings up a question, I was told by a hardware sales person that ALL stainless steel bolts were grade 8 or higher. Does anyone know for sure if this is true/false??
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This brings up a question, I was told by a hardware sales person that ALL stainless steel bolts were grade 8 or higher. Does anyone know for sure if this is true/false??
False as stainless can't be quenched and tempered like carbon steel can and generally speaking are (at best) comparable to grade 5 carbon bolts. In SS there are basically only two grades that are the norm, 18-8 (U.S.) and A-2 (metric). Here's a general reference chart with tensile and yield strength properties: http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx (http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx)
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Yeah, me too. Said I needed the longer bolts, he stood behind his word, so am I :) Order placed.
Mine arrived earlier this week and I installed them tonight. As I mentioned before, this is on top of the Helibars.
It looked like a two person job, so I had my best friend help. Good thing I did- it would have been MUCH more difficult with one person. The washers are tricky, but we found the perfect method.... I held the dimple in place with an angled dental pick while he tightened.
I wondered why they weren't MORE angle on the plates, now I know why! They are the absolute MAX possible while still being able to get the bolts in! It appeared to us that the longer bolts are TOO LONG for the narrow wedge side, so we used the longer Murphs bolts only on the thick sides and the Helibar bolts on the thin sides. Murph- you probably only should include 2 long bolts in the kit.
The change is MORE than I expected! An added bonus is that the Helibars caused the right master cylinder to touch every so slightly on the windshield when in lock position- now it is far away. I am quite pleased so far, although I have only ridden about 30 min. Even at that distance, I would normally start to have numbness problems in my right hand. None!! I will try to remember to post again after much more time using them.
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Caffeinated brings up a good question, I checked the stock bolts from my bike and they are marked "A2" "70" as were the bolts I supplied with the wedges I made. Given the size & number I would think any stainless steel bolt would be as strong as the stock ones. My guess is the stanchion will break long before the 8 mm bolts holding them. Murph is supplying far stronger bolts than Kawasaki did. Has anyone found different strength bolts than "A2 70" on their bike?
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Well I finally had the wedges installed on my 2010 c14 and went for a spin this morning. About 75 miles of twisties.. It has brought the bars back just enough so I don't feel like I am reaching and having my arms locked straight, but not so much that the bike needs work to lean for the turn. Those Japonese must have longer arms than the rest of us.
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Well I finally had the wedges installed on my 2010 c14 and went for a spin this morning. About 75 miles of twisties.. It has brought the bars back just enough so I don't feel like I am reaching and having my arms locked straight, but not so much that the bike needs work to lean for the turn.
It is more a case of the handlebars going up than back. It is a difference, for sure.
Those Japonese must have longer arms than the rest of us.
The Japanese don't ride bikes like the Concours.... it was designed for "Westerners" who they think are all 6' tall and have have ape arms :)
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A2 is about 50% the strength of a DIN 10.9 bolt, 400 series stainless gets pretty close to the DIN 10.9 specs for tensile strength. I need several folks to verify the head markings on stock bolts..Mine were Din 10.9
zinc
10.9 is odd for a socket drive fasteners, but for some reason Japanese motorcycle manufactures like em’ that way. Its far easier to find DIN 12.9 than 10.9 as the majority of socket drive screws are DIN 12.9 , a little harder to find zinc ones. So how about it guys, check out those head stampings on your stock bolts and tell me what they are.
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
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Well, I'm completely confused, I checked the bolts I removed from my bike and I have 2 - 10.9 and 4 - A2!
The 10.9s are attracted by a magnetic while the A2s are not since they are stainless. Anyone with a stock bike find this disparity?
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All 6 of my handlebar mounting bolts are marked A2-70. This is on a 2008 C14 w/ ABS. All stainless.
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dras..
Did you buy your bike new, and its stock?
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
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All 6 of my stock 2011 bolts are 10.9
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All 6 of my handlebar mounting bolts are marked A2-70. This is on a 2008 C14 w/ ABS. All stainless.
Mine as well all A2-70, bought the bike new.
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Just fired Murph a order for a set of Wedges. I'll post up when I get them what the results are with regards to fit.
Barry
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dras..
Did you buy your bike new, and its stock?
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
No, I bought it used, but it did not have any risers or such and I have no reason to believe these were not the stock bolts from the factory, but I suppose they could have been replaced by someone at some time - who knows? :-\
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Mine arrived earlier this week and I installed them tonight. As I mentioned before, this is on top of the Helibars.
It looked like a two person job, so I had my best friend help. Good thing I did- it would have been MUCH more difficult with one person. The washers are tricky, but we found the perfect method.... I held the dimple in place with an angled dental pick while he tightened.
I wondered why they weren't MORE angle on the plates, now I know why! They are the absolute MAX possible while still being able to get the bolts in! It appeared to us that the longer bolts are TOO LONG for the narrow wedge side, so we used the longer Murphs bolts only on the thick sides and the Helibar bolts on the thin sides. Murph- you probably only should include 2 long bolts in the kit.
The change is MORE than I expected! An added bonus is that the Helibars caused the right master cylinder to touch every so slightly on the windshield when in lock position- now it is far away. I am quite pleased so far, although I have only ridden about 30 min. Even at that distance, I would normally start to have numbness problems in my right hand. None!! I will try to remember to post again after much more time using them.
I just got notice that my wedges have been shipped so I probably should wait but based on your comment about the washers being tricky and after printing the instructions in advance it looks like getting the washers properly aligned is key. You did it with a buddy...is it something that can be done solo? Also...admit to still being confused as to where the washers actually go on the wedges. I want to put them on this weekend. Can you clarify?
Thanks
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CONHARDCORE: Maybe I can explain about the washers. Normally the counter bore in the stanchion base has a flat bottom for the bolt heads to contact as you tighten them. With the wedge in place the stanchion base is tilted 6 degrees and the bottom of the counter bore is now tilted the same amount. The bolt heads will not contact the bottom of the counter bore correctly, so the washer which also has a 6 degree angle is placed so the high-side of the washer is opposite the low side of the angle and produces parallel surfaces under the bolt heads.
As you tighten the bolts, the washer wants to turn so if you position them turned counterclockwise about 1/4 - 1/2 turn, they will rotate into the correct orientation as you tighten the bolts. You might also glue them in the correct orientation so they stay put while tightening. They are a pain but not too difficult.
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Thanks Phil...much appreciated. Have another thread going but since these are your product, were they originally intended to go with risers as the optimum correction or did you also see these as giving the same correction and affect to the stock bar height? I ordered bolts for three configs: Heli-Murphs-stock.
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When I made mine, I had stock bars and it was a step toward getting the bars closer and to change the compound twist in my wrists. I later made extenders for the bars so I'd sit upright and I now have the wedges + the extenders. I sold a lot to guys who had stock bars so i know you'll get some responses.
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I just got notice that my wedges have been shipped so I probably should wait but based on your comment about the washers being tricky and after printing the instructions in advance it looks like getting the washers properly aligned is key. You did it with a buddy...is it something that can be done solo? Also...admit to still being confused as to where the washers actually go on the wedges. I want to put them on this weekend. Can you clarify?
As Philip said, it can be done solo, but it is trickier. Make SURE that the dimples are still pointed toward the steering pivot after the bolts are tightened. The main problem is seeing the dimples- they are hard to spot down in the countersunk hole. I bet a mark with a permanent marker would help
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Well, just did the left bar install over my 2nd cup of coffee. Took a couple minutes, then I uninstalled it and will either be shipping the kit back to Murph or selling it. I am fairly handy with tools, but could only get 2 of the 3 washers rotated to the correct orientation. I'm anal/OCD and those washers and wedges would worry me if I ever dropped the bike off to have it worked on. I did like the position to which the kit moved the bar-end. Alas, not for me via this method... I will say the quality of the components in the kit appeared to be very high. I was quite happy with what arrived in the package. My enthusiasm dipped when I read the installation instructions and the requirement for the wedge shaped washers started nagging me, way before the installation.
So, a couple thoughts... if you were to machine the surface of the bar base (stanchion?) where the bolt heads meet it to the right angle, that would be a nice mod. Then you wouldn't need washers, just pop the bolt in like OEM. OR, use some very strong epoxy to literally glue the washers into the correct orientation. 18 ft. lbs. (IIRC) isn't a lot of torque, probably wouldn't break the washers free of the epoxy... or maybe it would. I was't going to explore either of those options. Could probably have a local machine shop do the machining cheap and easy.
My guess is $$$$ is keeping anyone from simply making new stanchions(?) which is the part of the bar with 3 holes, that mates to the top triple clamp. Making those in various angle/rotation configurations would solve the problem. Lot of tooling to manufacture for numerous configurations, so probably a non-starter.
Barry
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BARRY: I feel your pain, but since I've had my bars on/off about a hundred times test fitting stuff I can tell you it gets better with repetition. The washers are a PITA but the option of making non-reversible modifications to the stanchion isn't feasible, and the only other solution I know of, metric stainless steel spherical washer sets would add about $30 to the kit, and they only accommodate about 3 degrees of misalignment.
I considered a press fit washer but they would be next to impossible to remove and, as with any farkle, the wedges don't work for everybody so I tried to make them as easy to test fit as possible and then easy to undo if you don't like them. I haven't tried it, but a S.S star washer under the angled washer might help to keep it from turning.
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BARRY: I feel your pain, but since I've had my bars on/off about a hundred times test fitting stuff I can tell you it gets better with repetition. The washers are a PITA but the option of making non-reversible modifications to the stanchion isn't feasible, and the only other solution I know of, metric stainless steel spherical washer sets would add about $30 to the kit, and they only accommodate about 3 degrees of misalignment.
I considered a press fit washer but they would be next to impossible to remove and, as with any farkle, the wedges don't work for everybody so I tried to make them as easy to test fit as possible and then easy to undo if you don't like them. I haven't tried it, but a S.S star washer under the angled washer might help to keep it from turning.
My first thought was a crush washer of some sort, or rubber for that matter. VERY hard rubber, only slightly compressible, would probably work VERY well.
I may have to give it some additional thought.
What I didn't indicate clearly is my concern over the washers, with regards to dropping the bike off. The installation is VERY specific. Every time I drop the bike off, I'd have to trust the person doing the reinstall would do it exactly right.
The hard durometer rubber washer would negate that concern.
Thoughts ??????
The result was quite nice on the one bar I did. As stated, the anal/OCD aspect of my personality went BOIIINNNGG!
Barry
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Well, just did the left bar install over my 2nd cup of coffee. Took a couple minutes, then I uninstalled it and will either be shipping the kit back to Murph or selling it. I am fairly handy with tools, but could only get 2 of the 3 washers rotated to the correct orientation.
I stumbled across what I think is the best method, to use a dental tool in the washer notch to hold the washer in place while tightening. Once I figured that out, the rest were easy.
I'm anal/OCD and those washers and wedges would worry me if I ever dropped the bike off to have it worked on.
I am also OCD (much more "O" than "C"), and worry about it too, except that it should be pretty rare they need to remove the bars. Think about it- what routine maintenance requires removing the bars?? Plus, I *ALWAYS* supply a printout with warnings about the bike when I drop it off. I already have one in there now about the bars (and things like the center stand/lowering links, aux wiring, etc).
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I think too much thought is being put into washer orientation. If the bolts can be tightened to the correct torque with the washers in a reasonably close location then life is good....
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I think too much thought is being put into washer orientation. If the bolts can be tightened to the correct torque with the washers in a reasonably close location then life is good....
Kind of what I was thinking. I mean perfect is perfect but there is a pretty broad high edge tall side of the washer and if it torques it torques. Mine are going on with the stock bars tomorrow morning.
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I got some hard rubber washers... I may be able to live with that.
8)
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I think too much thought is being put into washer orientation. If the bolts can be tightened to the correct torque with the washers in a reasonably close location then life is good....
You just have to define what is "reasonable". I don't think they have to be perfect, but looking at the design, I would say they should be within 20 degrees or so.
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Just installed the wedges... used 1 rubber washer per bolt. The washers are pretty firm. I torqued to 20 ft. lbs, as my big torque wrench doesn't do less than that. Small one is in. lbs. Didn't search for the conversion (yet).
Bars are very solid. Feels stock. No wiggle. I lubed with a silicone lubricant in the hopes that the washers would spin rather than bind.
Barry
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You just have to define what is "reasonable". I don't think they have to be perfect, but looking at the design, I would say they should be within 20 degrees or so.
meaning if you are able to get the bolts thru the holes and tightened to spec w/o the bars falling off the bike...lol
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I stumbled across what I think is the best method, to use a dental tool in the washer notch to hold the washer in place while tightening. Once I figured that out, the rest were easy.
Your method worked perfectly Max. Wedges are on and feel great. Nice improvement and for me completely eliminate the need for any kind of risers.
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The wire from a small paper clip will work as well
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Do not have raisers, planning to order a set of wedges,do they come with set of bolts or do i have to pick the option ( with extra lenght bolts + $ 2.00 )
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The "Extra Length Bolts +$2.00" option for those who have the 2" Heli risers. You would want the "Stock bars, no risers" option which will come with 35mm bolts.
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The "Extra Length Bolts +$2.00" option for those who have the 2" Heli risers. You would want the "Stock bars, no risers" option which will come with 35mm bolts.
Thanks
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OK - rode 52+ miles this morning to work. Felt my hands were far too close together. Someone else mentioned this. I didn't measure the change, but at work removed the wedges before riding home. DO NOT like the position of the bars. The angle is good, the move inboard kills me. May be small, feels huge.
I'm gonna' sell my kit. Anyone wants it, it is for sale. Quality is first rate, just not working for me.
In the interest of making excellent customer service known, Murph's first response to me was "send them home". There is NOTHING wrong with the kit. I can't in good concience send the kit back, there is nothing wrong with it. Just not working for me personally. I'll ship the kit for a discounted price. Ping me if you want. I'll post up in the for sale forum later.
Barry
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OK - rode 52+ miles this morning to work. Felt my hands were far too close together. Someone else mentioned this. I didn't measure the change, but at work removed the wedges before riding home. DO NOT like the position of the bars. The angle is good, the move inboard kills me. May be small, feels huge.
I'm gonna' sell my kit.
There is no question that the bars are slightly closer together, it is function of the angles. I don't have an exact number, since it wasn't something I measured- if I had to pick something, I would say 1/2" to 2/3" ? Doesn't bother me in the least. Of course, everyone is different, but I am surprised you would find it that objectionable, especially in such a short time.
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Noticed it immediately, bothered me quite a bit all the way to work. You have to remember, I'm a supermoto/dirt rider. I ride with my outer 2 fingers on the bar ends. I'm a wide grip kind of person. The difference is probably minimal, felt huge TO ME.
That's the issue. Me.
Barry
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As with any change you make that affects the ergo's (seat, raise/lower pegs, bar risers, etc.) the slight change in width is going to feel drastically different than what you're used to and will take a few days of good riding to get used to.
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As with any change you make that affects the ergo's (seat, raise/lower pegs, bar risers, etc.) the slight change in width is going to feel drastically different than what you're used to and will take a few days of good riding to get used to.
I guess that is what I was trying to say- that a ride from work and one other 50 mile ride is probably not giving it a fair shake. And the longer you have been used to something, the longer it would take to adjust. Of course, there are times when you know immediately that something is not going to work out.
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I guess that is what I was trying to say- that a ride from work and one other 50 mile ride is probably not giving it a fair shake. And the longer you have been used to something, the longer it would take to adjust. Of course, there are times when you know immediately that something is not going to work out.
DING DING DING
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Barry
Send the kit back to Kentucky, we will refund all but $5..
8)
Hows that?
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
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Barry
Send the kit back to Kentucky, we will refund all but $5..
8)
Hows that?
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
You rock, but I feel it is not your fault, as there is nothing wrong with the kit. I really don't want to send them back, I'd much prefer to sell them at a discount. Cause I know I'm gonna' buy some more stuff (PR3!!!) from you and I'm sure I'll come out ahead in the long run.
EXCELLENT customer service. And I recently experienced (elsewhere) HOOOOOORRRRRRIIIIBLE customer service.
Thanks Murph, always a pleasure dealing with you on the phone or via text....
Barry
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Just finish installing my kit, did take some measurements before and after, in top of the 1"up it move the bars 1.5 " closer and 3/4 " back, did not rode it yet, will do it tomorrow to work, it take about 30 minutes and have no problem with the washers, i did use some start ( lock ) washers under the aluminum washers and they lock them in place preventing they from rotate
Here is a washers picture
(http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/12/22/83/92/pre_2010.jpg)
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You do realize that Murph is going to FAX your money back to you, don't you? He FAX'd me some tires one time 'cause I was in a hurry; they mounted OK but did not wear well at all....
(http://zggtr.org/Smileys/default/ROTFLMAO.gif)
Brian
You rock, but I feel it is not your fault, as there is nothing wrong with the kit. I really don't want to send them back, I'd much prefer to sell them at a discount. Cause I know I'm gonna' buy some more stuff (PR3!!!) from you and I'm sure I'll come out ahead in the long run.
EXCELLENT customer service. And I recently experienced (elsewhere) HOOOOOORRRRRRIIIIBLE customer service.
Thanks Murph, always a pleasure dealing with you on the phone or via text....
Barry
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Oh... the rubber washer idea, worked, but the installation destroys the washers. THey are squashed and torn. SO... it works, but have more on hand when you remove the bolts.
FYI...
Barry
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gildaguz
the star lock is a great idea..standard external 8mm lock?
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
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gildaguz
the star lock is a great idea..standard external 8mm lock?
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
Yes, but there is a little problem , they fit to tight in the holes in the handle-bar stanchion so i have to grind it very slightly so they go freely all the way to the bottom
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Rode it to work, round trip around 50 miles and i like it, i don't see any more the handle-bars ends reflected in the mirrors , mine is a 09, the slight change in width don't bother me, normally when i arrive home or work after trip i did feel the numbness in my hands , some thing i don't feel today, so i thing they work for me and i don't have the need of install risers
Thanks Murphs
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"Thanks Murphs" ;)
thanks Phil!
"they fit to tight in the holes "
I'll look at the specs for internal star locks...Not sure they would work as well though
Murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
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Have had my wedges in for a week now and racked up about 300 miles. All I can say is THANK YOU! as I can finally ride more than 15 miles without my hands getting sore in the palm and more than 100 miles without my right pinky and ring fingers going numb. Debated on whether or not I wanted to pull the risers to see how that feels with just the wedges, but if I do that I'll lose my Powerlet outlet and GPS ball mount. Think I'll play it safe and leave well enough alone and just enjoy riding in comfort for awhile.
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Got my wedges from Murph installed today, wow what a difference, alot more than I thought it would be, in a good way!!
I'm also running 2" Helibar risers, I'm only 5'8" and have short arms, these wedges were exactly what I needed to make this right for me, it pulled the bars back right to where I wanted them to be. It sure felt different and maybe a little akward for the first 15 minutes of riding but once I got used to the bars new possition I really like it now, rode another couple hours and now just love it!!
I totally recommend this farkle for anyone else out there that wants to decrease the reach to the bars if you're a shorter armed person like me...
Thanks Murph, you da'man!! :thumbs: :hail: :chugbeer:
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00496-20110827-1321.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00495-20110827-1321.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00494-20110827-1320.jpg)
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Got my wedges from Murph installed today, wow what a difference, alot more than I thought it would be, in a good way!!
I'm also running 2" Helibar risers, I'm only 5'8" and have short arms, these wedges were exactly what I needed to make this right for me, it pulled the bars back right to where I wanted them to be. It sure felt different and maybe a little akward for the first 15 minutes of riding but once I got used to the bars new possition I really like it now, rode another couple hours and now just love it!!
I totally recommend this farkle for anyone else out there that wants to decrease the reach to the bars if you're a shorter armed person like me...
Your post is a mirror of mine :) And now we have the identical setup
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Your post is a mirror of mine :) And now we have the identical setup
+1
That's ZG for you though, always trying to keep up with the Jones' when it comes to farkles. ;D
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+1
That's ZG for you though, always trying to keep up with the Jones' when it comes to farkles. ;D
;D ;D ;D
I'm just trying to keep up with all you guys, it seems to be a moving target though because after every farkle lately I think that's it I'm all done... Then a month goes by and some other new piece of fun and excitement pops up on here and calls my name... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_dunno.gif)
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Aside from adding heated grips and maybe reflashing the ECU this winter I'm done buying stuff for mine. I'm already on the lookout for another bike to serve as my money pit and keep me entertained (or frustrated) this winter.
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Question?????
of those of you that only used the wedge ( no riser)
how tall are you
not sure how to gage like or dislike of the wedge for rider size
so tall is what I will use for a bench mark
I'd like to know if you liked or disliked wedges alone
and how tall you are
looking for a responce of somehting like
6'1'' and liked the wedge
other note: bla bla bla
thanxs
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Question?????
of those of you that only used the wedge ( no riser)
how tall are you
not sure how to gage like or dislike of the wedge for rider size
so tall is what I will use for a bench mark
I'd like to know if you liked or disliked wedges alone
and how tall you are
looking for a responce of somehting like
6'1'' and liked the wedge
other note: bla bla bla
thanxs
5' 11" and did not like the wedge. The angle of the bar with the wedge seemed unnatural to me and was uncomfortable. To me, the angle of the stock bars seems more natural. The wedges make the width between the bars more narrow as well which lessens the leverage of the bars causing it to require a bit more force to initiate turns.
The only good part of the wedges for me was the fact they angled the bars back towards the rider a bit more. If there was a wedge that did only that it would be good.
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Question?????
of those of you that only used the wedge ( no riser)
how tall are you
not sure how to gage like or dislike of the wedge for rider size
so tall is what I will use for a bench mark
I'd like to know if you liked or disliked wedges alone
and how tall you are
looking for a responce of somehting like
6'1'' and liked the wedge
"tallness" says only a little about body mechanics. I am only 5'7", but I am probably not much shorter than you when sitting. (Hint- torso height and leg/arm lengths are not directly proportional to each other nor to standing height)
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"tallness" says only a little about body mechanics. I am only 5'7", but I am probably not much shorter than you when sitting. (Hint- torso height and leg/arm lengths are not directly proportional to each other nor to standing height)
Exactly!!
I am 5'8" but have short arms and lean over more than the average guy who is the same height. I had the wedges but switched to the LSL set up and find it much better for me.
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I found the quality of the wedges to be fine. I simply didn't like the way the kit moved the bars inward. Someone measured and I believe the inward movement was something like .75" on each bar (IIRC)?
Either way, I felt constricted after the install on my commute to work. I removed them at work, and was MUCH happier on my commute home.
I'm 5'9", and tend to ride right on the tank.
Barry
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Question?????
of those of you that only used the wedge ( no riser)
how tall are you
not sure how to gage like or dislike of the wedge for rider size
so tall is what I will use for a bench mark
I'd like to know if you liked or disliked wedges alone
and how tall you are
looking for a responce of somehting like
6'1'' and liked the wedge
other note: bla bla bla
thanxs
Height alone will not tell you much. I'm 5-10. Long arms. I ride with a forward lean, pushed back in a custom seat. Stock handlebars w/wedges. The wedges helped slightly in turning my wrists back to a more comfortable position. Not enough for me but better. The slight tip to the rear was almost unnoticeable to me. The mini-apes from Heli may be better but from what I've read they may be to high for me. The $700 dollars is hard for me to swallow. The LSL bars would probably work if I wanted to hang two, three or four sets of bars on the on the wall til I found the right set. So for lack of a better alternative the wedges will have to do.
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height alone doesnt tell the whole story , yes.....
BUT
I needed some kinda ref pt
any
orderd murphs KB 107
thanxs for the input
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The only way to tell for sure is to try them. I hope they work for you. If not it won't cost that much to try. If you don't like them they'll resell quickly on the forum. That's where I got mine.
Good luck.
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Stock bars, no risers with wedges here. I'm 6' with a 33"-34" sleeve. At first they felt perfect with the more horoizontal angle and subtle lift on the bar ends. The equally subtle move back toward me is just about perfect allowing me to still ride with a solid upper body lean on the bars and not have my arms completely extended. I began to notice a small loss of leverage on the bars during turn in's due to the decrease in bar width after a few hundred miles. I wish they were still as wide as stock bars, but not enough to remove them at this point. They did for me what I really wanted; ability to ride with close to stock bar height (NO RISERS) while improving the comfort factor on the grip angle and very small pull back distance improvement.
From time to time the desire to tinker and pull them off and go back to completely stock due to the width issue arises, but frankly they are kind of a hassle to install and I haven't done it yet.
What I think would be ideal for me would be risers of about .75-1.0" and the exact same amount of pull back with no affect to the bar width.
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The only way to tell for sure is to try them. I hope they work for you. If not it won't cost that much to try. If you don't like them they'll resell quickly on the forum. That's where I got mine.
Good luck.
+1
It is just impossible to know if you will like them or not, REGARDLESS of body shape, type, torso height, arm length, etc. PERIOD!
Murph will take them back and give you a full refund, less shipping, no questions asked. If you think you might want a change or need them, just order them!
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Murph will take them back and give you a full refund, less shipping, no questions asked.
+1 to emphasize crazy good customer service !
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just for the sake of asking, can these wedges be flipped or reversed so they would lower the bar ends and widening the grip?
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gonzosc1: No, the wedges cannot be reversed for the effect you want.
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Has anyone tried the LSL bars from Murph? Any more comfy than the risers and/or wedges? Seems like your wrists are in a more natural state than the stock bars which bend our wrists sideways.
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Has anyone tried the LSL bars from Murph? Any more comfy than the risers and/or wedges? Seems like your wrists are in a more natural state than the stock bars which bend our wrists sideways.
I have the LSL set up along with a few others here and think they are awesome! They don't work for everyone, I bought my LSL set up from a member that did not like the riding position all that much.
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Mine [wedges] arrived earlier this week and I installed them tonight. As I mentioned before, this is on top of the Helibars.
[...]
The change is MORE than I expected! An added bonus is that the Helibars caused the right master cylinder to touch every so slightly on the windshield when in lock position- now it is far away. I am quite pleased so far, although I have only ridden about 30 min. Even at that distance, I would normally start to have numbness problems in my right hand. None!! I will try to remember to post again after much more time using them.
3 months and many hundreds of miles later..... OMG, the things are just magic. They have COMPLETELY cured all my problems with my hands, thumbs, wrists, and forearms. I now give these things a *HUGE* recommendation. I am not sure how something so subtle could be so effective, but I suppose I shouldn't question it :)
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CONHARDCORE: Maybe I can explain about the washers. Normally the counter bore in the stanchion base has a flat bottom for the bolt heads to contact as you tighten them. With the wedge in place the stanchion base is tilted 6 degrees and the bottom of the counter bore is now tilted the same amount. The bolt heads will not contact the bottom of the counter bore correctly, so the washer which also has a 6 degree angle is placed so the high-side of the washer is opposite the low side of the angle and produces parallel surfaces under the bolt heads.
As you tighten the bolts, the washer wants to turn so if you position them turned counterclockwise about 1/4 - 1/2 turn, they will rotate into the correct orientation as you tighten the bolts. You might also glue them in the correct orientation so they stay put while tightening. They are a pain but not too difficult.
Is there a diagram on how to position the washers? I picked mine up second hand without instructions and want to make sure I'm doing this correctly. Thanks!
Nevermind - pretty self-explanatory once I actually got out to the bike and looked at it. Do need help on what the torque specs are for the handlebars though, can't seem to locate it in the owners manual. :o
Updated: Found the little note in the Owner's Manual (p-256) that says:"Please ask your authorized Kawasaki dealer for torque values." so I did. Handlebar Mounting Bolts are 18 ft.lbs.