Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Tylerkaz on April 03, 2021, 03:43:55 PM
-
Noticed my handle bars shaking on deceleration when taking pressure off handle bars after changing out stock muffler for a slip on. (It did not do this before) I also added a shad 59x trunk during the same time. So i took the trunk off to see and still have the same issue. The front forks are adjusted all the way in then 1 click back. Could the weight change of the old muffler make the difference or something else? What is the best solution, will bar end weights help?
Thanks
-
I don't think the muffler change could account for those symptoms. At reasonable speeds, it can't have any significant aerodynamic impact. And weight- you are talking about what, 1%? That shouldn't matter. You say on "deceleration", I assume you mean letting off the throttle but without using the brakes, so that would throw out that system.
Could you have accidentally lost a front tire balance weight?
Could it have had those symptoms before and you didn't notice? Or perhaps they were less noticeable?
-
I know it didnt do it before adding slip on. I did take it in to get tpms fixed and they rebalenced tiers but didn’t notice any difrence ( this was before adding slip on and trunk) . Ushaly dose it around 40mph. Also i did adjust the front forks with the nob on top to stiffen them up. I know my old honda cm 400 shook around 30mph.
-
I would guess something changed with the front tire balance, either not balanced as well or like Max said, threw a weight. Low speed handlebar shake is typically a poorly balanced front tire.
-
I would guess something changed with the front tire balance, either not balanced as well or like Max said, threw a weight. Low speed handlebar shake is typically a poorly balanced front tire.
If thats the case wouldn’t it do it at highway speeds also and not just on deceleration? Or is the pressure on handelbars enough to stabilize it?
-
I know it didnt do it before adding slip on. I did take it in to get tpms fixed and they rebalenced tiers but didn’t notice any difrence ( this was before adding slip on and trunk) . Ushaly dose it around 40mph. Also i did adjust the front forks with the nob on top to stiffen them up. I know my old honda cm 400 shook around 30mph.
Tyler, I know that you’re certain that it wasn’t doing it before the slip on, but I agree with Max. Is it possible that you may not have been paying as close attention to this before putting on the slip on? Also, having the wheels off and rebalanced, it is possible that a weight was thrown off?
That being said, every motorcycle, depending on the geometry/rake of the front end, will induce some type of oscillation at a certain speed. It is always more noticeable when you either take your hands off the bars or take your weight of the bars. If the tires are cupped, which is very common with this heavy bike, it will make the oscillation even more pronounced. Just food for thought.
-
Quite often the handlebar shake you describe is a result of worn or maladjusted steering neck bearings. Did you adjust the forks before or after noticing the shake?
-
Quite often the handlebar shake you describe is a result of worn or maladjusted steering neck bearings. Did you adjust the forks before or after noticing the shake?
This was my 1st thought also, loose head bearings are the most likely problem.
-
Tyler, I know that you’re certain that it wasn’t doing it before the slip on, but I agree with Max. Is it possible that you may not have been paying as close attention to this before putting on the slip on? Also, having the wheels off and rebalanced, it is possible that a weight was thrown off?
That being said, every motorcycle, depending on the geometry/rake of the front end, will induce some type of oscillation at a certain speed. It is always more noticeable when you either take your hands off the bars or take your weight of the bars. If the tires are cupped, which is very common with this heavy bike, it will make the oscillation even more pronounced. Just food for thought.
Its posible i didn’t notice after having it rebalenced (dealer took wheels off and rebalenced to do tpms) id think i would have noiced it on the 80+ mile ride back from dealer if it was difrent then. iv put about 1k miles on it since i got it. I know it didn’t do it when i first got it becuse i thought wow this thing is much more balenced than my old bike when taking hands off handelbars. But i did notice it the first test ride (within a couple of miles ) right after slip on and adding trunk, and adjusting front fork. ( bike was sitting about a week due to weather so all that was done durring that time) i also added lugage gaurds but this was after i noticed shaking and did not effect it.
-
Quite often the handlebar shake you describe is a result of worn or maladjusted steering neck bearings. Did you adjust the forks before or after noticing the shake?
Right before my test ride. but by adjust i just ment the pre loading , ( just turining the black plastic nob on front forks) also dealer did front fork seals before i purchased it (not that i compleatly trust the dealer but i did see them working on forks before i origanly bought it, they did miss the tpms low battery at least they fixed that later after i noticed the alarm)
-
Quite often the handlebar shake you describe is a result of worn or maladjusted steering neck bearings. Did you adjust the forks before or after noticing the shake?
+1 on steering stem adjustment as the cause.
Tire balance issues would be felt all the time, not just when letting go of the bars.
-
+1 on steering stem adjustment as the cause.
Tire balance issues would be felt all the time, not just when letting go of the bars.
I did not adjust the searing stem just the rebound dampening force adjuster thats on top of both forks ( the one with a black plastic nob that can be turned by hand, i did not use any tools to do this)
-
I did not adjust the searing stem just the rebound dampening force adjuster thats on top of both forks ( the one with a black plastic nob that can be turned by hand, i did not use any tools to do this)
Put the damping adjustment back to where it was before you noticed the shake. Also, are you sure you have the right and left adjusters at the same position? A lot of bikes shake a bit on deceleration. There are a lot of factors involved in why a bike might do that, but there is a chance that your adjustment induced it.
The best way to troubleshoot, is to change one thing at a time and see if it makes a difference. If that change doesn't, put it back the way it was, then try another change. I would put your damping adjusters back to where they were before you adjusted them.
I highly doubt the weight difference of the muffler would cause it. I can load my bike, and not have any shake, and unload it, and not have shake. the same holds for carrying a passenger, so the small weight difference of a muffler should make no difference.
-
I did not adjust the searing stem just the rebound dampening force adjuster thats on top of both forks ( the one with a black plastic nob that can be turned by hand, i did not use any tools to do this)
what we're suggesting is maybe you need to.
-
Put the damping adjustment back to where it was before you noticed the shake. Also, are you sure you have the right and left adjusters at the same position? A lot of bikes shake a bit on deceleration. There are a lot of factors involved in why a bike might do that, but there is a chance that your adjustment induced it.
The best way to troubleshoot, is to change one thing at a time and see if it makes a difference. If that change doesn't, put it back the way it was, then try another change. I would put your damping adjusters back to where they were before you adjusted them.
I highly doubt the weight difference of the muffler would cause it. I can load my bike, and not have any shake, and unload it, and not have shake. the same holds for carrying a passenger, so the small weight difference of a muffler should make no difference.
Problem is i wasnt paying attention to the previous setting. I turned them all the way down then backed off 1 click so they should be the same. I guse thats the first thing i could try is difrent settings on dampening. Manual says 5 clicks out for avrage conditions so ill try that first. I cant realy put old exhuast back on because part of the conecting pipe is broken. I only thought of weight because i always see warnings about loading motorcycles evenly thats why i jumped to that conclusion.
-
what we're suggesting is maybe you need to.
I have no experiance with adjusting the front end, so please bare with me... why would it need it all of the sudden? Can it vibrate loose? In under 1k miles i wouldn’t think somthing would change but im no expert. Ill take a look at service manual for stem adjustment. It just seemed like a suden / dramatic change to me. Expecialy feeling it within first couple of miles from my house.
-
Sounds like you have a head shake, not a balance problem.
I had a similar problem on a tire. Don't remember brand, but think it was Shinko or Avon.
Initially, the tire was fine. But after 1-2000 miles it would shake on decell.
The tire manufacturer replaced both front/rear tires and the problem went away.
Sorry that I don't recall exact detail.
Try doing a search of the Forum. Might be able to find the discussions.
Ride safe, Ted
-
Could you give us some basic bike info ... year, mileage, brand and condition of front tire and the mileage on the tire. Check to make sure the wheel spins freely when on the center stand. Make sure the brake calipers are centered and not dragging. When the bike is on it's wheels with you straddling hold the front brake and bounce the front end to be sure there is no fork stiction on the rebound stroke. With the bike on the center stand keep the front wheel in the air and move the front end by the wheel back and forth lock to lock and check smoothness. Making sure you don't pull it off the stand take hold of the wheel and try to move it fore and aft to see if there is any play in the stem bearings. I'm assuming that you have checked the tire pressure. Try these things and let us know your findings.
-
Sounds like you have a head shake, not a balance problem.
I had a similar problem on a tire. Don't remember brand, but think it was Shinko or Avon.
Initially, the tire was fine. But after 1-2000 miles it would shake on decell.
The tire manufacturer replaced both front/rear tires and the problem went away.
Sorry that I don't recall exact detail.
Try doing a search of the Forum. Might be able to find the discussions.
Ride safe, Ted
Years ago my C10 had hands free head shake on decel coming down through 50 - 45 mph as did my Voyager XII (This is not uncommon on heavier bikes especially). New front tires would make it go away until they had some wear. Then the head shake would return. Once the the steering head bearings were adjusted correctly, the problem went away permanently.
Since this suddenly appeared after some changes, I would look there first.
My bet is the damper adjuster. Play with that to see if you can mediate some or all of the head shake. If the head shake lessens as you firm it up, its possible it was snugged down before you changed it, masking the root cause of loose steering head bearing adjustment.
-
Problem is i wasnt paying attention to the previous setting. I turned them all the way down then backed off 1 click so they should be the same. I guse thats the first thing i could try is difrent settings on dampening. Manual says 5 clicks out for avrage conditions so ill try that first. I cant realy put old exhuast back on because part of the conecting pipe is broken. I only thought of weight because i always see warnings about loading motorcycles evenly thats why i jumped to that conclusion.
I honestly don't think it possible for the exhaust to induce the issue, so I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know your weight, but you dialed in a lot of damping, I would back it off and see if it improves.
-
Thanks for the input im going to try to get on center stand to check it out. If there is a trick to getting it on the center stand id like to know. The local cycle gear said they balance tires for free so i might just try that. Adjusting dampening did’t seem to help. The bike is a 2011 with 42,000 miles. I put 1,000 miles on it. The tires look like their in good condition (cant seem to post picture). The front is a shinko. Im about 220lbs. Also have the pull back rizers on handel bars.
I notice now it dose it between 30-50mph clears right up at 50, using cramp buster (wrist throttle) also seems to do it under light throttle (with pressure off of handelbars)
-
If it's even remotely difficult to get it onto the centerstand, then it has been lowered.
If it's been lowered, then the shaking is most likely to be that the geometry is wrong eg. lowered different amounts front vs rear or one fork lower than the other.
-
If it's even remotely difficult to get it onto the centerstand, then it has been lowered.
If it's been lowered, then the shaking is most likely to be that the geometry is wrong eg. lowered different amounts front vs rear or one fork lower than the other.
Is there a way to tell if its been lowered? This bike was prety much stock exept for the windshild when i got it so kinda dont think last owner would have lowered but not ruling it out.
I think im just not doing it right also afraid of dropping it. My honda cm400 i could never get on center stand took me and my dad both to do it. My father in law cant get his kawasaki voyager 1200 on his center stand by himself , said his friend can do it though. Just saying im probably not doing it right.
-
Theres a trick to the kawasaki voyager 1200 - its a 2 stage left mechanism.
If trying to put that bike on CS with the 2nd stage lever, its gonna be a bear.
Using stage 1, then 2 makes it a breeze.
-
If thats the case wouldn’t it do it at highway speeds also and not just on deceleration? Or is the pressure on handelbars enough to stabilize it?
I'll go out on a limb and disagree with the other responses. I bet its the tire balance. To answer your 1st question above, no. My experience is a poorly balanced front tire will shake the bars at about 40mph but not at higher speeds. I've had this symptom on my C14 and previous CBR. On both bikes it stopped when I decided to mount & balance my own tires. 42000 miles seems low to have steering bearing issues but could be possible; these things vary from bike to bike. Mine's at 48000 and the ride is very smooth. I could be wrong but the front tire was just messed around with on it. Could be a combination of both these things.
Also,
Roll the back tire up on a board to make it easier to get on the center-stand. Something thinner than a 2x4 though
Check for non-stock shock links on rear shock to see if it's might be lowered.
-
I'll go out on a limb and disagree with the other responses. I bet its the tire balance. To answer your 1st question above, no. My experience is a poorly balanced front tire will shake the bars at about 40mph but not at higher speeds. I've had this symptom on my C14 and previous CBR. On both bikes it stopped when I decided to mount & balance my own tires. 42000 miles seems low to have steering bearing issues but could be possible; these things vary from bike to bike. Mine's at 48000 and the ride is very smooth. I could be wrong but the front tire was just messed around with on it. Could be a combination of both these things.
Also,
Roll the back tire up on a board to make it easier to get on the center-stand. Something thinner than a 2x4 though
Check for non-stock shock links on rear shock to see if it's might be lowered.
Thanks i like the board idea. They said they rebalanced after doing tpms but who knows if they really did it. Ill try that first seems like the easiest thing to check. Shocks look stock to me but ill take a closer look while on center stand.
-
Is there a way to tell if its been lowered? This bike was prety much stock exept for the windshild when i got it so kinda dont think last owner would have lowered but not ruling it out.
I think im just not doing it right also afraid of dropping it. My honda cm400 i could never get on center stand took me and my dad both to do it. My father in law cant get his kawasaki voyager 1200 on his center stand by himself , said his friend can do it though. Just saying im probably not doing it right.
Check the rear suspension linkages. If they are not standard then it's been lowered.
I'm used to putting my C10 GTR1000 on the centrestand so to me the C14 is a breeze.
Hold the handlebar in your left hand, hold the grab rail with your right hand, put right foot on the centrestand and push it to the ground.
Once the centrestand hits the ground put some weight on it so that it puts both centrestand feet down and stabilises the bike.
Then put all your weight on the centrestand and at the same time pull/push the bike rearwards and up she goes.
The first time I did mine I expected it to be like the C10, so I damned near threw the bike backwards out of the garage. :rotflmao:
-
Could rear tire problem cause the front end shake? Still going to get front rebalenced. Noticed what i think is called tire feathering on the rear tire. The leading edge of the tread is taller than the trailing edge (Michelin 2ct) exept in the center. Seems to be the same on left sied as right side.
-
Probably not likely the rear tire, especially if it does it going straight and not leaning over at all, assuming the middle of the rear tire is smooth. Any feeling of vibration coming through the seat at any speed?
-
Probably not likely the rear tire, especially if it does it going straight and not leaning over at all, assuming the middle of the rear tire is smooth. Any feeling of vibration coming through the seat at any speed?
Feels smooth at all speeds
-
Could be front wheel bearings. Mine would shake at about on deceleration at about 35mph. It was really bad if I let go of the bars. Tried different tires and was still the same. Front wheel bearings were hard to turn with a finger stuck in the center inside race but turned smooth. Replaced and the problem went away.
-
Could be front wheel bearings. Mine would shake at about on deceleration at about 35mph. It was really bad if I let go of the bars. Tried different tires and was still the same. Front wheel bearings were hard to turn with a finger stuck in the center inside race but turned smooth. Replaced and the problem went away.
Thanks. Going to take front tire off this weekend to check balance. Ill definitely check those out while i have it off.
-
Took tire off to get balanced was able to tell front tire was cupping, so had it changed and now rides smooth.