Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Tylerkaz on February 23, 2021, 04:12:13 PM
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Hi so i bought a 2011 concours and it only came with 1 fob (large one not credit card one) now my question is can more than 1 large fob be programed to the bike? The dealer i got it from says you can only have one programed to it at a time and if you add a new one it takes the old one out of system. From i thought i seen you can have up to 6 programed into it. Dose any one have more than one large fob programed to their bike?
Thanks for help
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Up to 6 large fobs can be registered to a bike. The pre-2010 bikes came with 2 large fobs then 2010 & later came with 1 large and 1 small.
An unlimited number of passive fobs (half credit card size) can be registered to a bike.
The dealer i got it from says you can only have one programed to it at a time and if you add a new one it takes the old one out of system.
The second part of his statement is also false. He believes this because he doesn't know how to follow instructions - those in the KIPASS/KDS instruction manual.
Have a read thru this thread.
https://forum.concours.org/index.php?threads/key-fob-issues.50926/
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What he said, plus warning: You better get another and soon. If you lose that one fob you have, you will be very much hosed. You would have to buy a whole new computer and get it installed/programmed, which is a whole lot of money!
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http://zggtr.org/index.php?topic=24235.0 ;D
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An unlimited number of passive fobs (half credit card size) can be registered to a bike.
I'm sorry but this is 100% FALSE! There are 12 "slots" in the KiPass ECU, 6 for the KiPass FOBs and 6 for the Key Immobilizer FOBs.
The 6 KiPass slots can be programmed ONE TIME ONLY. So on a 2011 there will likely be 5 empty slots. You can add up to 5 more if your budget allows it. But adding another one if probably more reasonable. But once a slot is programmed it cannot ever be reused. Once you exhaust these 6 slots you cannot program another KiPass FOB to the bike.
The Key Immobilizer slots are different. They CAN be reused and the trick is that when you program Key Immobilizer FOBs to the bike you must program ALL of them at one time. Only the FOBs that are programmed at that time will work. If you leave one out it will not work
Also your dealer is mistaken. All he needs to do is read the KDS 3 instructions to understand this but, in my opinion, most dealer service techs can't read.
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Thanks for the info. The dealer i got it from dosent seem to know enugh about it then. They did say they would program the credit card for free. I ordered a new fob and few credit cad fobs i will take to a local dealer that seems to know more about system. I am very uneasy about only having one fob.
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I'm sorry but this is 100% FALSE! There are 12 "slots" in the KiPass ECU, 6 for the KiPass FOBs and 6 for the Key Immobilizer FOBs.
At worst it would be 50% false. ;D
Jwh. I see no evidence of your 12 slot claim anywhere in Kaw's range of relevant manuals. 6 slots - yes for active fobs with no mention of a limit on passive fobs. Please reference your claim.
With thanks. :chugbeer:
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Thanks for the info. The dealer i got it from dosent seem to know enugh about it then.
Very few dealers know much of anything at all about Kipass. Many had sold *new* C14's with a fob missing, simply because they didn't even know the passive fob was there and was important.
Part of the reason for that is that the C14 is the ONLY bike they had ever seen that has RFID ignition. The other part is that the sales volume is very low (some dealers never or rarely even had one on the floor).
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From my 2008 manual..
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From my 2008 manual..
That is the service manual (2008). No mention of the passive-only FOB, but it doesn't matter, since the large active FOBs are also a passive FOBs. What they don't do is a good job of distinguishing between slots for active RFID vs. slots for passive RFID. The terminology is beyond confusing, at best. They are calling the passive part a "transponder" and the active part just "FOB."
Interestingly, in the 2011 service manual, there is no section AT ALL about key/FOB registration. I looked for quite a while, it seems they just removed all that information. The owner's manual doesn't say much, certainly nothing useful.
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It is true that you can have an unlimited number of passive fobs.........provided you clone one single fob so that they all have the same ID.
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Good work Jim. I too searched the later FSM like Max. Thanks Rex - thinking outside the box. ;D
So that means Jwh & I are both wrong or both right, as the case may be. ???
But the early FSM does seem to be fairly conclusive evidence, so I acknowledge the falsehood in my earlier statement - subject to me getting my hands on 5 more half credit card size passive immobilizer fob key thingies (or a combination of large & small from other owners at a gathering) and trying to register them all to see what happens. I have KDS.
The KDS operators manual states that for additional passive registrations 'repeat steps 2 to 5' - no mention of 6 'slots.' However the illustration of the steering lock unit clearly shows 6 like the KIPASS ECU.
:chugbeer:
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This is from vol 20 Issue 4 2008 version of Kawasaki's K-Tech news. It may help someone.
Sorry about the formatting, I'm copying and pasting.
Key FOBS
Now let’s say your customer
comes to you and has purchased a
new fob and needs to get this third
fob registered to the vehicle. This is
a bit tricky, but not too bad if you
proceed methodically. Start by writing
down the ID number found on
the outside of the new fob’s package.
Important note: For security reasons,
unlike the tire pressure sensor, the
fob’s ID number is on the packaging,
not on the part itself. Without this ID
number the new fob cannot be registered,
so don’t discard the packaging
before recording the number. From
the KI-PASS menu, select FOB REGISTRATION,
then from the new menu
choose ADDITIONAL REGISTRATION.
Lay the new fob within a few
inches of the SMART ECU (the ECU
in the very center of the motorcycle).
Type in the new fob’s ID number,
then click ADDITIONAL REGISTRATION.
However, you’re not done yet,
as this procedure registers only the
Key FOBS
Now let’s say your customer
comes to you and has purchased a
new fob and needs to get this third
fob registered to the vehicle. This is
a bit tricky, but not too bad if you
proceed methodically. Start by writing
down the ID number found on
the outside of the new fob’s package.
Important note: For security reasons,
unlike the tire pressure sensor, the
fob’s ID number is on the packaging,
not on the part itself. Without this ID
number the new fob cannot be registered,
so don’t discard the packaging
before recording the number. From
the KI-PASS menu, select FOB REGISTRATION,
then from the new menu
choose ADDITIONAL REGISTRATION.
Lay the new fob within a few
inches of the SMART ECU (the ECU
in the very center of the motorcycle).
Type in the new fob’s ID number,
then click ADDITIONAL REGISTRATION.
However, you’re not done yet,
as this procedure registers only the
work, repeat the transponder registration
procedure for all the fobs.
Now let’s suppose a customer has
lost one of the fobs. You will want to
encourage your customer to re-register
all the remaining fobs so that the
lost fob will be disassociated in the
ECU, preventing unauthorized use
and providing the customer with the
maximum security possible. Starting
from the KI-PASS menu, select FOB
REGISTRATION, then REREGISTRATION.
Lay all the remaining fobs
near the smart ECU. When KDS asks
if you have all the fobs together, click
YES. The result will be the vehicle
will now recognize only those fobs.
If at some point the customer
recovers the lost fob, you can use this
exact same process to re-associate the
(now) three fobs. Remember to lay
all three fobs near the smart ECU. If
on the other hand the customer ends
up buying a replacement for the lost
third fob, follow the procedure for
adding a fob, above.
It may be useful to compare the
Immobilizer and KI-PASS on the
Concours™ with the similarly-featured
Immobilizer on the Jet Ski®
Ultra® 250X/Ultra® LX. Where the
two vehicles are similar is that they
both use electronic keys. In fact, the
Immobilizer circuits on each are very
similar. Each vehicle’s ECU can store
up to six key codes, and each vehicle
is delivered to the customer with just
two keys and two key “slots” already
taken up in the ECU. Also, each vehicle
allows the technician to increase
or decrease the number of working
keys. From there things get very
different. Obviously, the Concours™
KI-PASS system is much more sophisticated
than the Ultra’s Immobilizer,
and adds features such as TPMS and
the ability to sense when the fob is
out of range, which the Ultra’s system
doesn’t do. In fact, you can look at the
Ultra’s Immobilizer system as simply
preventative, locking out the wrong
key, while the Concours™ system is
more preemptive, requiring a sort
of “daisy-chain” of confi rmations
between no fewer than three onboard
ECUs before the system will power
up. Other differences? Well, come to
our hands-on courses this training
season and fi nd out!
Hopefully this tutorial on the new
KDS version 3.0 has opened your
eyes to the resourcefulness of this
diagnostic tool, and more importantly,
given you some insight into the
practical use of KDS on Kawasaki vehicles.
KDS 2.4 will no longer be supported
starting with the 2009 model
year, so be diligent in learning about
and using the new version 3.0. Kawasaki
offers one-day hands-on classes
in KDS 3.0, and two-day hands-on
classes on the new Concours™ 14
at fi ve locations around the country.
See the schedule in K-Tech News Vol.
20, Issue 3, the 2008 Course Catalog
sent to all dealers in November or on
K-dealer’s Learning Center, for class
dates and locations.
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This is from vol 20 Issue 4 2008 version of Kawasaki's K-Tech news. It may help someone.
Sorry about the formatting, I'm copying and pasting.
Here it is, reformatted, for your pleasure:
Key FOBS
Now let’s say your customer comes to you and has purchased a new fob and needs to get this third fob registered to the vehicle. This is a bit tricky, but not too bad if you proceed methodically. Start by writing down the ID number found on the outside of the new fob’s package. Important note: For security reasons, unlike the tire pressure sensor, the fob’s ID number is on the packaging, not on the part itself. Without this ID number the new fob cannot be registered, so don’t discard the packaging before recording the number. From the KI-PASS menu, select FOB REGISTRATION, then from the new menu choose ADDITIONAL REGISTRATION. Lay the new fob within a few inches of the SMART ECU (the ECU in the very center of the motorcycle). Type in the new fob’s ID number, then click ADDITIONAL REGISTRATION. However, you’re not done yet, as this procedure registers only the Key FOBS Now let’s say your customer comes to you and has purchased a new fob and needs to get this third fob registered to the vehicle. This is a bit tricky, but not too bad if you proceed methodically. Start by writing down the ID number found on the outside of the new fob’s package. Important note: For security reasons, unlike the tire pressure sensor, the fob’s ID number is on the packaging, not on the part itself. Without this ID number the new fob cannot be registered, so don’t discard the packaging before recording the number. From the KI-PASS menu, select FOB REGISTRATION, then from the new menu choose ADDITIONAL REGISTRATION. Lay the new fob within a few inches of the SMART ECU (the ECU in the very center of the motorcycle). Type in the new fob’s ID number, then click ADDITIONAL REGISTRATION. However, you’re not done yet, as this procedure registers only the work, repeat the transponder registration procedure for all the fobs. Now let’s suppose a customer has lost one of the fobs. You will want to encourage your customer to re-register all the remaining fobs so that the lost fob will be disassociated in the ECU, preventing unauthorized use and providing the customer with the maximum security possible. Starting from the KI-PASS menu, select FOB REGISTRATION, then REREGISTRATION. Lay all the remaining fobs near the smart ECU. When KDS asks if you have all the fobs together, click YES. The result will be the vehicle will now recognize only those fobs. If at some point the customer recovers the lost fob, you can use this exact same process to re-associate the (now) three fobs. Remember to lay all three fobs near the smart ECU. If on the other hand the customer ends up buying a replacement for the lost third fob, follow the procedure for adding a fob, above.
It may be useful to compare the Immobilizer and KI-PASS on the Concours™ with the similarly-featured Immobilizer on the Jet Ski® Ultra® 250X/Ultra® LX. Where the two vehicles are similar is that they both use electronic keys. In fact, the Immobilizer circuits on each are very similar. Each vehicle’s ECU can store up to six key codes, and each vehicle is delivered to the customer with just two keys and two key “slots” already taken up in the ECU. Also, each vehicle allows the technician to increase or decrease the number of working keys. From there things get very different. Obviously, the Concours™ KI-PASS system is much more sophisticated than the Ultra’s Immobilizer, and adds features such as TPMS and the ability to sense when the fob is out of range, which the Ultra’s system doesn’t do. In fact, you can look at the Ultra’s Immobilizer system as simply preventative, locking out the wrong key, while the Concours™ system is more preemptive, requiring a sort of “daisy-chain” of confirmations between no fewer than three onboard ECUs before the system will power up. Other differences? Well, come to our hands-on courses this training season and find out!
Hopefully this tutorial on the new KDS version 3.0 has opened your eyes to the resourcefulness of this diagnostic tool, and more importantly, given you some insight into the practical use of KDS on Kawasaki vehicles. KDS 2.4 will no longer be supported starting with the 2009 model year, so be diligent in learning about and using the new version 3.0. Kawasaki offers one-day hands-on classes in KDS 3.0, and two-day hands-on classes on the new Concours™ 14 at five locations around the country. See the schedule in K-Tech News Vol. 20, Issue 3, the 2008 Course Catalog sent to all dealers in November or on K-dealer’s Learning Center, for class dates and locations.
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Good work Jim. I too searched the later FSM like Max. Thanks Rex - thinking outside the box. ;D
So that means Jwh & I are both wrong or both right, as the case may be. ???
But the early FSM does seem to be fairly conclusive evidence, so I acknowledge the falsehood in my earlier statement - subject to me getting my hands on 5 more half credit card size passive immobilizer fob key thingies (or a combination of large & small from other owners at a gathering) and trying to register them all to see what happens. I have KDS.
The KDS operators manual states that for additional passive registrations 'repeat steps 2 to 5' - no mention of 6 'slots.' However the illustration of the steering lock unit clearly shows 6 like the KIPASS ECU.
:chugbeer:
Regardless of what they mention or not, there are 12 slots, 6 each for KiPass and Key Immobilizer. Cheers!
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Regardless of what they mention or not, there are 12 slots, 6 each for KiPass and Key Immobilizer. Cheers!
:goodpost: I acknowledge the falsehood in my earlier statement. :battle: :hail: Jim's copy of the relevant page from the FSM unequivocally shows 6 + 6 = 12. :finger_fing11:
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Thanks for the info. The dealer i got it from dosent seem to know enugh about it then. They did say they would program the credit card for free. I ordered a new fob and few credit cad fobs i will take to a local dealer that seems to know more about system marine suppliers shop Mazuzee (https://www.mazuzee.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=90). I am very uneasy about only having one fob.
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I am very uneasy about only having one fob.
As you should be! Don't lose it!!!
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So i got lucky i took my bike in to get tpms fixed ( dealer did them for free since it stoped working when i picked it up) and i got a diffrent guy who said adding another fob wouldn’t be a problem. So now i have 2 fobs and 2 pasive fobs ( all programed for free) and they all work.
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Great. But just to be sure it was done right, remove the batteries from the active fobs and check that the passive function of all 4 work.
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Great. But just to be sure it was done right, remove the batteries from the active fobs and check that the passive function of all 4 work.
:goodpost:
Yeah, hate to be non-trusting, but that is a good idea. You don't want to be stranded one day. They do have to program both the active AND passive RFID separately in the larger FOBs. I could easily see them doing only the active RFID portion.
Also, don't forget to order the correct metal key (A or B) and have that cut, to put inside the FOB, or you will be in for a surprise when you can't open the gas tank or panniers :)
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:goodpost:
Yeah, hate to be non-trusting, but that is a good idea. You don't want to be stranded one day. They do have to program both the active AND passive RFID separately in the larger FOBs. I could easily see them doing only the active RFID portion.
Also, don't forget to order the correct metal key (A or B) and have that cut, to put inside the FOB, or you will be in for a surprise when you can't open the gas tank or panniers :)
Trust but verify.
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Trust but verify.
Verify and then trust :)
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...and carry a big stick.