Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: gflint on May 13, 2011, 11:44:35 AM
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The tires are about toast so time to get a good tire thread going. I am running PR2s at the moment and have been very satisfied. What is the latest and greatest? I see there is a PR3 out. Anybody have a comparison with the PR2? Some people have been raving about the Pirelli Angles. How do they compare to the PR2 and PR3? Wear is a big factor of course but I like to corner pretty hard so I am more interested in the handling aspect.
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At the Run With the Wolf Rally a couple of weeks ago, I had to put a new rear tire on. The dealer up in Blairsville did not have any more PR2's or PR3's, but had a Pirelli Angel. So far the Pirelli has been an awesome tire. Corners well (no chicken strips after the first 100 miles of N.Ga twisties)! Price was about the same as the PR3.
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The design of the tires point to the PR2's lasting longer at the expence of handling. Not that they are bad. Just geared more towards higher milage with good handling added in the mix. Where as the Pirelli seems to use a formula geared toward handling, with better wear being added in.
The Pirelli will probably be a batter choice over the Michelin for the way you like to ride, basiclly being "more interested in the handling aspect"! The Pirelli's excel at that. But also wear pretty good. Just probably not as good as the Michelins, which are geared more towards mileage.
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I have used both tires, one set of Pirelli Angel GTs and five sets of Michelin PR2s. Have not tried the PR3's yet because I am wary of the siping cuts in the tires; they usually enhance foul weather performance at the expense of dry pavement performance.
Both the Pirellis and Michelins are excellent tires and pretty close in performance. The Angels grip a little better and work better at lower temps., say below about 45 F to maybe 35 F where I just stop pushing tires at all. The Michelins wear better but it isn't a huge difference, something like 20% or so at a guess. The major difference between the tires I found was how the profiles wear, especially on the rear tire: the Michelins still perform well as they gather miles while the Pirellis get really difficult to turn in by the half- way point in tire life. So I have chosen the Michelins over the Pirellis. All of this is just my opinion of course. I also thing the Pirellis might perform better on a lighter bike, perhaps something like a ZX 14 used for long distance touring instead of aggressive street riding. As far as the fronts go, I slightly prefer the Angels because they grip as well, seem to last as long and actually show fewer 'lumps and bumps' as they were compared to the Michelins.
Both are great tires and I don't think either one would be a mistake.
As the prices continue to increase on name brand tires, I am really tempted to try a set of Shinkos, at least the rear tire. I would not expect them to last as long as either the Michelins or Pirellis but even if they last 2/3 as long, they would be the better buy, at least for local use. Most of the reports on Shinkos being used on C-14s have been very good regarding performance.
Brian
The tires are about toast so time to get a good tire thread going. I am running PR2s at the moment and have been very satisfied. What is the latest and greatest? I see there is a PR3 out. Anybody have a comparison with the PR2? Some people have been raving about the Pirelli Angles. How do they compare to the PR2 and PR3? Wear is a big factor of course but I like to corner pretty hard so I am more interested in the handling aspect.
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I am going to have to change my rear shortly. Any experience with avon storm 2s? They have a $25-$50 rebate going for the month.
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The design of the tires point to the PR2's lasting longer at the expence of handling. Not that they are bad. Just geared more towards higher milage with good handling added in the mix. Where as the Pirelli seems to use a formula geared toward handling, with better wear being added in.
The Pirelli will probably be a batter choice over the Michelin for the way you like to ride, basiclly being "more interested in the handling aspect"! The Pirelli's excel at that. But also wear pretty good. Just probably not as good as the Michelins, which are geared more towards mileage.
blah, my michelins are still entact when my pegs are scraping like crazy and my boys in front of me on sportbikes are all over their knee-pucks. please show me someone who can outride the michelins grip with a behemoth C14 (track or street) (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconhammer.gif)
I would love to meet him and chat.
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blah, my michelins are still entact when my pegs are scraping like crazy and my boys in front of me on sportbikes are all over their knee-pucks. please show me someone who can outride the michelins grip with a behemoth C14 (track or street) (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconhammer.gif)
I would love to meet him and chat.
Have you tried the Pirelli's?
If so, I respect your opinion, although I do not agree with it.
If not, you have no true experience to make comments on what I posted! Only what you assume!
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Have you tried the Pirelli's?
If so, I respect your opinion, although I do not agree with it.
If not, you have no true experience to make comments on what I posted! Only what you assume!
I didn't comment on the performance of the perelli's, I commented on the performance of the michelins. and since I've used them on street and track I can call BS on them being slick.
for example, let me back up the utter BS in this thread with photo's of sportbikes on their knee pucks and my michelins hanging in there just fine on the C14 with zero slippage:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer10/lean1.jpg)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer10/lean2.jpg)
yea..... real "slick" those michelins. I heard on the (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconquoteguy.gif)Internet(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconquoteguy.gif) they don't stick
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol.gif)(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol.gif)(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol.gif)
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(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/eek.gif)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconsecret.gif) beware when using the mega-sticky Michelins, if you let your pegs get too worn you'll scrape your pannier baggage
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Once again I said: " The design of the tires point to the PR2's lasting longer at the expense of handling. Not that they are bad. Just geared more towards higher mileage with good handling added in the mix. Where as the Pirelli seems to use a formula geared toward handling, with better wear being added in."
I stand by that. The Pirelli's grip better than the michelins do, period! ;) Just because you live in a climate where it's never below 85 degrees and the Michelin's perform well for you. You still ignore the fact the the Pirelli's are a grippier tire and will perform better, especially for what the OP was looking for! The Michelin's will more than likely last longer because of the design (being a harder tire). But from what he described, the Pirelli will more than likely work better for him.
And again Steven, if you want to see "someone who can outride the michelins grip with a behemoth C14 (track or street) ". Just look in the mirror, probably yourself, with a pair of Pirelli's on your bike. :o You are great at making comments on how good you think the Michelin's are without actually having experienced how much better the competition truly is! 8)
You said for the longest time that you would only run Michelin's! Then you switched to you would like to try Angels, but they don't make them in 190/55. Then even after it was shown to you that you can get Angels in 190/55, you don't try them. Instead you still claim your not completely informed opinion that Michelin is the best! But you have yet to man up and do what you said you would do, try the Angel in 190/55. Or do you now need Pirelli's that were only made at 3:35 AM on a Sunday morning. Or maybe, only Pirelli's that are Kosher. Or maybe only Pirelli's that are only made in a Michelin plant. What will the excuse be next? ;D
How about put your money where your mouth has been and try the Angels. Then afterwards, lets see if you truly can say that nothing handles better than your PR2's? You won't though. Because probably every person who has gone from PR2's and tried Angels come back impressed on how much better the Angels handle over the PR2's. The closest back up you have is BDF. He has always been a PR2 advocate and even he has to admit that the Angels handle better. So come on hot shot, you've been talking for over a year. Man up and do what you said. Try the Angels and then try to talk smack.
Or is it that since you live in Florida and the roads have no turns, that grip doesn't matter to you, because you never turn anyway! Maybe that what your thinking. The OP doesn't need to turn and only wear matters!!!!!! :rotflmao:
I didn't comment on the performance of the perelli's, I commented on the performance of the michelins. and since I've used them on street and track I can call BS on them being slick.
for example, let me back up the utter BS in this thread with photo's of sportbikes on their knee pucks and my michelins hanging in there just fine on the C14 with zero slippage:
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Have you tried the Pirelli's?
If so, I respect your opinion, although I do not agree with it.
If not, you have no true experience to make comments on what I posted! Only what you assume!
Pirelli's! I knew it! :rotflmao:
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Go Cap'n Bob, GO! ;D
You did pretty well for a day and then start to slip pretty fast for another day. Now you are all the way back to your ole' self.
Let's see: Sun in sky, check. Oceans full of water, check. Cap'n Bob back chewin' up the keyboard and going at it with Steve, check. Life is good, again.
;D
Just so we're all clear on this, what are you saying Bob- Pirellis good, Michelins bad? Check. ;D
Brian
Once again I said:
<snipped rhetoric>
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Just so we're all clear on this, what are you saying Bob- Pirellis good, Michelins bad? Check. ;D
Brian
No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying for what the OP is looking for in a tire, the Pirelli is probably the better choice for him!
And That Steve still is giving out less than fully informed/experienced opinions! ;D
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Sorry to butt in, can someone please explain "chicken strips", "cupping" and "flat spotting"? It may seem self explanatory, i just want to make sure i know what i am looking for.
Thanks.
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Not really much of a concern unless you use Pirelli tires (down Bob!). ;)
Seriously, chicken strips are the unused edges on a tire, usually this refers to the rear tire. The term implies that you are 'chicken' to lean the bike over and use the 'rest' of the tire and so it leaves strips of unused tire near the edges. Cupping is uneven wear on a tire, usually shaped <more or less> like waves on the ocean and this usually happens on the front tire although it can happen on the rear also. Flat spotting, or just flattening is where the tire wears mostly in the center and the tire shape becomes more flat than round. This usually happens on the rear tire and happens because the bike is used for more straight riding than cornering. Highway riding can flatten tires pretty badly.
Brian
Sorry to butt in, can someone please explain "chicken strips", "cupping" and "flat spotting"? It may seem self explanatory, i just want to make sure i know what i am looking for.
Thanks.
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Or is it that since you live in Florida and the roads have no turns, that grip doesn't matter to you, because you never turn anyway! Maybe that what your thinking. The OP doesn't need to turn and only wear matters!!!!!! :rotflmao:
Hey, I live in florida... like my Kenda Kruse tires just fine. Low cost, high milage and they all slip in the sand 8)
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I think at times that Steve has a total love affair with Michelin.....maybe even sleeps with a fresh PR2 beside him?
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Pirelli's! I knew it! :rotflmao:
Actually, I have PR3's in the garage, ready to go on the bike for their test. Hopefully I have better success with this pair!
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As the prices continue to increase on name brand tires, I am really tempted to try a set of Shinkos, at least the rear tire. I would not expect them to last as long as either the Michelins or Pirellis but even if they last 2/3 as long, they would be the better buy, at least for local use. Most of the reports on Shinkos being used on C-14s have been very good regarding performance.
Brian
FWIW I love the Raven on the rear of my C14. I have over 3000 miles on it now and it looks to have a little more than 2000 miles or so left in it. I will report back after my 1600 mile trip next weekend.
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Thanks Brian.
Chicken strips, thats funny! The others were as i suspected. Thanks for the info!
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I am going to have to change my rear shortly. Any experience with avon storm 2s? They have a $25-$50 rebate going for the month.
I have about 5500 miles on my Avon's. They handle a lot better then the OEM stones but I have no idea how they are compared to Michelins. My OEM's lasted 6500 miles and it is looking like the Storms will not do much better. I have only scraped the pegs once and most of the time do not push them in the corners. I put the Storms on in the fall and have had them over the winter and here in Colorado it just not a good idea to push the corners much in the winter, way too much sand and gravel. I have a set of PR3's sitting in the garage and will see this summer how they do compared to the Avon's or the OEM stones.
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Sorry to butt in, can someone please explain "chicken strips", "cupping" and "flat spotting"? It may seem self explanatory, i just want to make sure i know what i am looking for.
Thanks.
You really are a newb -- aren't you?
Chicken strips -- food you get at Dairy Queen.
Cupping -- something you do to "man-boobies."
Flat spotting -- streets without potholes.
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After the factory BT's and a long devotion to PR'2 I now got a set of Z6 Interact
and with close to 3000 miles on them they have my thumbs up over the PR'2s.
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Between the Angels and PR2's I would go with the Angels for slightly better handling but less in longevity. Just my opinion and yes I have used them both.
I'm trying out the evil Shinko 009s right now. Just rode around through Arkansas and Missouri in the rain yesterday, dry today and they worked pretty well.
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I finally put my Shinko Raven on the back to match the front, even though I probably had 2k left on the stocker. I can say with no hesitation that this Shinko is round, is rubber, and it rolls. All for $157. What more do you need?
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Thanks Capn' Bob,
You make a very rational argument. I have been loyal to Pilot Power 2CT since I switched from Dunlop 205s, then D207s a few years ago. After trying the PPs I was hooked. I run them on all my sport bikes- Hayabusa, RC51 and Superhawk. The handling is only slightly better than the Dunlops, but the tire life, especially the rear is at least 2X if not 3X. But you have motivated me to try the Pirelli's on my new (used) Concours once the Pilot Road 2CT's wear out. Thanks for your thoughtful and intelligent comments. Until I have tried them I will not know if they are better.
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I havent heard anyone mention the bt-023. Any experiences with it yet?
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Choke....gasp..... sputter! Wow!
Yep, that ole' Cap'n Bob is thoughtful to an inciteful (sic) degree.
I can tell you why I gave him the nickname 'Cap'n' if you want.... ;D
Brian
Thanks Capn' Bob,
You make a very rational argument. I have been loyal to Pilot Power 2CT since I switched from Dunlop 205s, then D207s a few years ago. After trying the PPs I was hooked. I run them on all my sport bikes- Hayabusa, RC51 and Superhawk. The handling is only slightly better than the Dunlops, but the tire life, especially the rear is at least 2X if not 3X. But you have motivated me to try the Pirelli's on my new (used) Concours once the Pilot Road 2CT's wear out. Thanks for your thoughtful and intelligent comments. Until I have tried them I will not know if they are better.
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I went back to the PR2s. I had good luck with them last time. I read several reviews and got some good suggestions here. The PR2s seem the best compromise. In Montana there is a lot of slab riding to get to the good stuff so the Angles might go away too quickly. $400 on the bike from my dealer. After doing some price chasing on the internet I found them for in the $300 neighborhood. Installation is about $50 so I am paying $50 to support my local dealer. Well worth it.