Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: ealldritt on August 23, 2017, 10:14:51 PM
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I recently ordered an addition key fob for my 2008 14 and the packaging was discarded before I could get it registered. I possibly found part of the packaging and wondered if the number on it was the fob id number I need. Could anyone let me know what the id number may look like?
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Open up the PDF file (K Tech 20-4 Conrad provided it) in this thread and I think towards the end of the file it shows the packaging with the id number on it.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1560.msg16426#msg16426 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1560.msg16426#msg16426)
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Thanks for the response. The number was difficult to read but I saw enough to know I don't have the number. Expensive mistake on my part.
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Thanks for the response. The number was difficult to read but I saw enough to know I don't have the number. Expensive mistake on my part.
Well, you weren't the first nor will be the last to make that mistake.
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Thanks for the response. The number was difficult to read but I saw enough to know I don't have the number. Expensive mistake on my part.
Is there a solution, other than purchasing yet another fob?
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silly question but is the FOB ID inside the fob somewhere as well ??
Has anyone taken one apart?
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Nope, not inside. And yes, many have taken it apart to change the battery.
The fact of the matter is that the encryption number is burned into the wafer when it is made (just as there is an ID number in all Intel processors, for example) but because it is encrypted, there is no way to read it. So the manufacturer (Mitsubishi I believe) attaches that number, which they know because they burned it into the silicon in the first place, to the packaging that the fob is packed in. The idea being: open the package, read the number and plug it into the KDS software, then toss the package and the system is secure. The algorithm is a 140 bit encryption, not likely to be broken by anything anyone has lying around; the 'rule of thumb' is that it would take one year of super- computer time for each bit of encryption used beyond 80 bits.
KiPass, which is really the Mitsubishi 'MISTY' system is actually quite secure.... even from owners suffering from the 'I lost my only fob' syndrome. I get e-mails all the time asking me if my by- pass will start a C-14 without a fob, then asking me for the 'way around' KiPass and the unfortunate truth is that there is not a way around it, at least not that would cost less than 10 brand new C-14's.
All C-14's are sold with two fobs. If a dealer says otherwise, that dealer is mistaken and they have (or had) the other fob somewhere. If one buys a C-14 used, with only one fob, the first thing to do is to buy another fob and get the bike coded to recognize it.
Just reiterating this as a Public Service Announcement.... again, 'cause there are always new owners and it is often a nasty surprise to them.
Brian
silly question but is the FOB ID inside the fob somewhere as well ??
Has anyone taken one apart?
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Isnt it only the 08/09s that had two active fobs from the factory?
The 10 onwards have one active and one passive only don't they ?
(and the Passive ones can be cloned without need for a FOB ID number)
All C-14's are sold with two fobs. If a dealer says otherwise, that dealer is mistaken and they have (or had) the other fob somewhere. If one buys a C-14 used, with only one fob, the first thing to do is to buy another fob and get the bike coded to recognize it.
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Yes, two RF fobs on the Gen.1 bikes, then one RF and one RFID on the Gen. 2 bikes.
As an aside, there are actually two independent parts to KiPass, the KiPass ECU, under the saddle, is the main, base unit. The other section is the RFID system located in the ignition switch housing; they are separate, do not interact and either can authenticate the main ECU and allow the bike to be started.
As to the cloning, I remember something about that but honestly, cannot recall the details. I <believe> it is not MISTY and may well use a simpler system. ?? Sorry but this is at the fringes of my knowledge of KiPass. Besides, as the original Kawasaki KiPass passive fob is something like $35, there is little point although a cloned fob would not require the bike be programmed, so that would be less expensive of course. Plus the ign. housing unit uses a one- write system with six slots; once they are used, they cannot be replaced so a clone would have the advantage of not using another slot. Although in actual practice, this does not seem to be a problem :-) .
Brian
Isnt it only the 08/09s that had two active fobs from the factory?
The 10 onwards have one active and one passive only don't they ?
(and the Passive ones can be cloned without need for a FOB ID number)
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! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaFCRSicGM#)
Yes, two RF fobs on the Gen.1 bikes, then one RF and one RFID on the Gen. 2 bikes.
As an aside, there are actually two independent parts to KiPass, the KiPass ECU, under the saddle, is the main, base unit. The other section is the RFID system located in the ignition switch housing; they are separate, do not interact and either can authenticate the main ECU and allow the bike to be started.
As to the cloning, I remember something about that but honestly, cannot recall the details. I <believe> it is not MISTY and may well use a simpler system. ?? Sorry but this is at the fringes of my knowledge of KiPass. Besides, as the original Kawasaki KiPass passive fob is something like $35, there is little point although a cloned fob would not require the bike be programmed, so that would be less expensive of course. Plus the ign. housing unit uses a one- write system with six slots; once they are used, they cannot be replaced so a clone would have the advantage of not using another slot. Although in actual practice, this does not seem to be a problem :-) .
Brian
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Yeah, if that works, I would assume it is less expensive than buying one from Kawasaki and then having the bike programmed to read it.
It should also be possible to clone the RFID portion of an RF fob also.
Not really a fan of using a passive fob myself but they can be almost invaluable as the last fob available because they can be used to code new fobs to the bike, including RF fobs.
Brian
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaFCRSicGM#)
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Whilst we're talking keys and things I just recently ordered a spare key (so I could clip it to my jacket) by submitting a photograph.
The guys I used in the UK (Im sure you guys have similar services) were
https://keysinthepost.com/
Yeah, if that works, I would assume it is less expensive than buying one from Kawasaki and then having the bike programmed to read it.
It should also be possible to clone the RFID portion of an RF fob also.
Not really a fan of using a passive fob myself but they can be almost invaluable as the last fob available because they can be used to code new fobs to the bike, including RF fobs.
Brian
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News to me- what a slick idea!
Brian
Whilst we're talking keys and things I just recently ordered a spare key (so I could clip it to my jacket) by submitting a photograph.
The guys I used in the UK (Im sure you guys have similar services) were
https://keysinthepost.com/
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and a very good reason not to leave keys(house/bike/car) visible in pictures posted publically
News to me- what a slick idea!
Brian
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Whilst we're talking keys and things I just recently ordered a spare key (so I could clip it to my jacket) by submitting a photograph.
The guys I used in the UK (Im sure you guys have similar services) were
https://keysinthepost.com/
Never heard of it. Might exist in the big city. Keep in mind we here in the colonies barely pass as civilized society.
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and a very good reason not to leave keys(house/bike/car) visible in pictures posted publically
:yikes: good point!
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Whilst we're talking keys and things I just recently ordered a spare key (so I could clip it to my jacket) by submitting a photograph.
The guys I used in the UK (Im sure you guys have similar services) were
https://keysinthepost.com/
Scary stuff, borrow someone's key for a moment, take a photo of it with your phone, bam. Of course, that type of thing (tracing, photos, putty) is one reason RFID security was added to keys in the first place :)
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Scary stuff, borrow someone's key for a moment, take a photo of it with your phone, bam. Of course, that type of thing (tracing, photos, putty) is one reason RFID security was added to keys in the first place :)
It applies equally to house keys (which dont have RFCID) .
Was watching YT video recently where they were duplicating house keys using a CAD program to map the key to a Printing program and a 3D printer although you could equally just use a dremel and a blank, which are easily available
Apparently there are (in the US although no reason why the UK is any different ) over 90% of homes have keys from 2 manufacturers
NB they even managed to make working keys by taking pictures of keys on coffee shop tables using a zoom camera from an window over the street
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Yo', you be passin' Gary?
Brian
Never heard of it. Might exist in the big city. Keep in mind we here in the colonies barely pass as civilized society.
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Yeah but then there are the layers of security: a copper / zinc layer (gliding metal), then a lead layer, and sometimes a steel layer. Not to mention the alarm system and dogs, all tough to get around.
It is not that robbery does not work, it is just that you have to want it pretty badly. Then again, we are mere colonists and not refined like the 'mother ship' which has dispensed with the copper and lead layers.
;)
Long ago and far away, I knew a gentleman who loaded 38 special wadcutters with hollow bases backwards. Kinda' looked like a flying ashtray from the front. He called them PWS: Planet wrecker specials.
Brian
It applies equally to house keys (which dont have RFCID) .
Was watching YT video recently where they were duplicating house keys using a CAD program to map the key to a Printing program and a 3D printer although you could equally just use a dremel and a blank, which are easily available
Apparently there are (in the US although no reason why the UK is any different ) over 90% of homes have keys from 2 manufacturers
NB they even managed to make working keys by taking pictures of keys on coffee shop tables using a zoom camera from an window over the street
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Took my newly acquired passive fob to the stealer for programing yesterday. Supposed to take 30 minutes. Four and a half hours with 1 hour on the phone to mama Kaw they got it to work. I guess $50. is cheep for 4 1/2 hours labor :( .
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Took my newly acquired passive fob to the stealer for programing yesterday. Supposed to take 30 minutes. Four and a half hours with 1 hour on the phone to mama Kaw they got it to work. I guess $50. is cheep for 4 1/2 hours labor :( .
Many dealers have never done or even seen the procedure performed before. It is not that difficult, but not intuitive either. The Concours is the only "keyless" Kawasaki, ever. It is an expensive bike with correspondingly low sales, and high reliability, so dealer repair departments don't encounter it much. Not trying to make excuses for what happened to you, but just letting you know that we have heard the story before and the reason.
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If the identifying number that accompanies a new fob is accidentally lost or destroyed before the bike is programmed to that fob, does that render to new fob totally worthless? Is there any way the new fob, sans its ID number, can be returned for credit, or otherwise be of any value whatsoever?
Or is it money down the drain?
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If the identifying number that accompanies a new fob is accidentally lost or destroyed before the bike is programmed to that fob, does that render to new fob totally worthless? Is there any way the new fob, sans its ID number, can be returned for credit, or otherwise be of any value whatsoever?
Or is it money down the drain?
I'm going to suggest it's most likely to be money down the drain.
Why would anyone take the ID number off before having it programmed onto the bike?
Actually as the programming as to take place at a dealers and that the fobs can only be ordered from Kawasaki why would you have it in your posssesion before programming?
I would just let the dealer order it andsimply book in to have the work done.
If they lose the ID thats their problem not yours :)
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Without that number, the fob is <almost> useless. The RF portion of the fob IS useless but the RFID part can still be used I believe. Still, that is a small and not very expensive part of a full RF fob (the kind that use a battery).
As far as returning it, it is just as useless to a dealer and it is doubtful that one would take a fob back w/out that number on the package.
Brian
If the identifying number that accompanies a new fob is accidentally lost or destroyed before the bike is programmed to that fob, does that render to new fob totally worthless? Is there any way the new fob, sans its ID number, can be returned for credit, or otherwise be of any value whatsoever?
Or is it money down the drain?