Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: B.D.F. on August 02, 2017, 08:42:19 AM
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Yep, good thing too 'cause he looks pretty dangerous strapped into a restraint chair. If I watch the video in slow motion and squint a little bit, I believe I can see the kid blinking his eyes with intent to inflict bodily harm. Yeah, that's it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tennessee-police-officers-tase-restrained-173955078.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/tennessee-police-officers-tase-restrained-173955078.html)
Looks like the kid was in some state of mental distress. Certainly it was required that he be forcefully contained earlier, when they were putting him in that chair but once strapped in, I cannot think of any reason to inflict further physical pain and suffering on the kid.
Two words would really help in these situations: "Civilian oversight". A few more words would straighten it out: "Civilian oversight and department management".
Live video is going to be the best thing that ever happened to law enforcement IMO. Well, that and some reasonable but insistent citizens who are able to read simple documents, such as the Constitution of the United States.
Brian
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I wouldn't be too quick to jump to any conclusion. To me it looks like the officer on the left is trying very hard to finish securing the inmate's hands and the inmate was continuously fighting and that is when the stunning began. It is interesting that such a video would be posted without any commentary from the officers as to why they did what they did.
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Jump to a conclusion? Very hard to finish securing his hand to the chair?
Did you watch the same video I did? Seriously, the man was strapped to a chair. An LEO tried to gag him, and the person in the chair used his hand, well- secured to the chair, to remove the gag from his mouth. The end. What else needed to be done to the human, make him read the alphabet backwards? Sing in key?
Sorry, he was strapped into a restraint chair and not even close to getting out of it. The worst he could do that that point was say bad words, make loud noises, and have biological 'events' (leaving slippery spots on the floor). If the LEO's could not deal with that, then that segment of American needs new LEOs.
I lean to the right (politically) but I am not blind nor am I impervious to good sense or the Constitution. That man was secured and posed no danger to society or the persons around him. Tasing him, repeatedly, was unnecessary and excessive.
I certainly would listen to any further evidence, video or audio that anyone could present. But I seriously doubt there could be an argument presented that would persuade me that what is shown on that video was NOT EXCESSIVE.
My country is being besieged on all sides but I will defend it to the last breath. Civilian oversight. Civilian management. Civilian government, always following the Constitution.
Brian
I wouldn't be too quick to jump to any conclusion. To me it looks like the officer on the left is trying very hard to finish securing the inmate's hands and the inmate was continuously fighting and that is when the stunning began. It is interesting that such a video would be posted without any commentary from the officers as to why they did what they did.
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I'm in complete agreement with Brian on this. The electroshock therapy was not applied to cause immediate compliance it was used to moderate future behavior. One of the purest uses of torture. These people are not law enforcement officers.
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I read the words :)
Think the last bit sums it up
"CCTV footage and footage taken from the camera on the Taser capture the incident. In the second video, taken from the Taser camera and matching the time period shown in the first video, one officer is heard saying, “I’ll keep on doing that until I run out of batteries.” "
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ah there is audio on the video on this UK news site
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4744588/Three-cops-suspended-repeatedly-tasering-teen.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4744588/Three-cops-suspended-repeatedly-tasering-teen.html)
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Jump to a conclusion? Very hard to finish securing his hand to the chair?
Don't get too worked up, I just explained what I thought I saw and a possible explanation. I am not saying everything they did was right, or that your observations were wrong.
Seriously, the man was strapped to a chair. An LEO tried to gag him, and the person in the chair used his hand, well- secured to the chair, to remove the gag from his mouth. The end. What else needed to be done to the human, make him read the alphabet backwards? Sing in key?
He was probably put in the chair for being violent and dangerous and refusing to comply with orders, posing a danger to himself, to the officers, and possibly to other inmates. He wasn't being gagged, they applied what is called a "spit guard", which is placed over the head when an inmate is spitting and/or biting. Yes, the inmate was able to remove the spit guard because they didn't tighten the straps properly. When they tried to better secure his hand so he couldn't do it again, he fought very very hard and they eventually used the taser to force him to stop fighting. After the tasing, the guards were able to secure his right arm, I think, the video ended too soon. I agree that it certainly appears that they used excessive force. At the same time, they didn't slap him, hit him, choke him, or do anything else overtly punitive... Of course, that could be because they knew it was being recorded and decided to abuse the tools that they were allowed.
Sorry, he was strapped into a restraint chair and not even close to getting out of it.
To me it appeared it wasn't about getting out of the chair, it was about securing his torso and hand so he couldn't remove the spit guard again. It appeared they didn't use the straps correctly over his shoulders (they were too loose and over his arms not shoulders), which is why he was able to move so much and get his hand to his face.
The worst he could do that that point was say bad words, make loud noises, and have biological 'events' (leaving slippery spots on the floor). If the LEO's could not deal with that, then that segment of American needs new LEOs.
Spitting in someone's face is a way to transmit disease and pretty disgusting. The spit guard doesn't stop talking, yelling, or making noise; but it does help with spitting and biting. http://www.medline.com/product/Spit-Guard-Transport-Hoods-by-Humane-Restraint-Company/Safety/Z05-PF108311 (http://www.medline.com/product/Spit-Guard-Transport-Hoods-by-Humane-Restraint-Company/Safety/Z05-PF108311)
I certainly would listen to any further evidence, video or audio that anyone could present.
I have watched lots of such video in the past from jail shows on TV and would like more information, too. Hopefully the incident will be reviewed by authorities and appropriate action taken against the guards.
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ah there is audio on the video on this UK news site
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4744588/Three-cops-suspended-repeatedly-tasering-teen.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4744588/Three-cops-suspended-repeatedly-tasering-teen.html)
Wow, that certainly puts a new flavor on it. There is absolutely no question in my mind that they overused the taser. The audio reveals it wasn't a few short stuns, it was continuous for way longer than could possibly ever be needed. The second video is interesting too, it looks like they were trying to assess what happened AFTER and ended up tasing him several times again?? I think that video was mis-labeled as being after and not before. Very confusing.
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Perhaps you did not watch the video I posted the link to, to the end? The kid had something like 40 taser burns on him, the majority of them inflicted after he was secured to the restraint chair.
Hey, I understand the idea of being cranky and wanting to inflict harm to 1) stop the abuse from the subject. 2) get even- hey, it IS a normal human reaction and emotion. 3) feed the adrenaline rush. Again, a pretty normal human reaction although also an unpleasant facet to 'us'. And further, I absolutely can understand the concept of rage, distaste, disgust and so forth building up day after day doing something such as police work. And I would be able to forgive some kind of occasional outburst or some measure of 'over control' given an emotional response: hey, a person shoots at another person and the 'target' person gives the shooter a smack.... even if perhaps that shooter is now wearing handcuffs. Not coloring w/in the lines but I understand it. The key here is 'a' as in one, not a beating.
What I cannot overlook is repeated overstepping by the same person. Or excessive overstepping (a gray area but cases like this are so far over the line, it can no longer be seen in the rear view mirror). And last and worst of all, a group- effort to inflict pain, suffering and damage to any person no longer a threat.
Not cranky with you Max, just a bit passionate on this issue generally. The lines are clearly drawn and have been written down for a couple of centuries. As a group, we need to get the herd back w/in those lines and hold everyone in a position of any authority to reasonable bounds.
Video is the best thing to happen to our society in a century I think, and once the majority of the population realizes that they (the population) IS the controlling authority, and the people maintaining order do so by drawing their authority from that group, and not the other way around, things will straighten themselves out I believe.
And I am not a liberal, not a young person, and not at risk at all of being that kid in the restraint chair. But I cannot underwrite using excessive force on 'that kid' (or any person or people) by paying for it and then looking the other way when it happens.
Brian
Wow, that certainly puts a new flavor on it. There is absolutely no question in my mind that they overused the taser. The audio reveals it wasn't a few short stuns, it was continuous for way longer than could possibly ever be needed. The second video is interesting too, it looks like they were trying to assess what happened AFTER and ended up tasing him several times again?? I think that video was mis-labeled as being after and not before. Very confusing.
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Perhaps you did not watch the video I posted the link to, to the end?
I only went to the original link you posted and had watched it several times. There is only one video, no audio, no clear finish to the video (even though it is long), no mention about taser burns, no transcript about "draining the batteries", nothing about suspension. But just now (prompted by your message) I discovered the "According to local news reports" link to: http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/cheatham/2017/07/28/three-deputies-placed-administrative-leave-after-lawsuit-claims-excessive-force-used-inmate/517969001/ (http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/cheatham/2017/07/28/three-deputies-placed-administrative-leave-after-lawsuit-claims-excessive-force-used-inmate/517969001/) Had I done that to begin with, I would have had a lot more information, and also before Mikey posted his link.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013458/Pensioner-82-hospitalised-days-tasered-police.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013458/Pensioner-82-hospitalised-days-tasered-police.html)
And I am not a liberal, not a young person, and not at risk at all of being that kid in the restraint chair.
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OK, it sounds as though the original link I posted may have been altered.
What I saw went on to show the kid being tasered while in police custody but still unrestrained; they started tasing him while trying to subdue him to put him in that chair. And by the way, that did not seem excessive or outside reasonable LE behavior.
Then the video of them tasing him while in the chair.
Then video of him back at home with his step father explaining what happened, why they chose to sue the police agency, and showing video of a lot of taser burns all over the kid's torso (over 40 according to step- dad). And an interview with the family's lawyer about what the local LE agency is being sued for and why.
And the other LEO video from an officer's camera giving the voice of the 2 nd man of the three LEOs telling the kid in the chair something to the effect 'they would tase him unitl they ran out of batteries'.
That was the information I based my original post on and it was sufficient for me to arrive at the conclusion that I did.
From what you are saying, I would guess the information at the end of that link I provided has changed. If so, you and I cannot converse reasonably about the incident given the two different levels of information (no one's fault if a third party changed the info. provided at the place that link leads to).
That is what generated my reaction, due to the opinion formed: they went well beyond what was necessary to secure that individual and did enough of it, for long enough, that I consider it criminal behavior on the part of the LE participants. If it were my community, I would approach both the city or town level politicians as well as the state level politicians and express my opinions and suggest responses. Further, I would contact civilian agencies to see if any were planning on addressing this and seeing how I might assist them (money, time, etc.)
Citizens of the area ignoring incidents such as this one are not only allowing it but underwriting it by fueling it economically (taxes).
And again to make my position clear: it certainy seems the kid needed arresting, confining, and physical control. Of course I have no problem with that. My resistance comes ONLY after he was secured into a restraint chair, and then only at the continued LEO 'physical attacks' to either get something from the person they did not need, or to punish him and that is not w/in their purview.
Brian
I only went to the original link you posted and had watched it several times. There is only one video, no audio, no clear finish to the video (even though it is long), no mention about taser burns, no transcript about "draining the batteries", nothing about suspension. But just now (prompted by your message) I discovered the "According to local news reports" link to: http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/cheatham/2017/07/28/three-deputies-placed-administrative-leave-after-lawsuit-claims-excessive-force-used-inmate/517969001/ (http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/cheatham/2017/07/28/three-deputies-placed-administrative-leave-after-lawsuit-claims-excessive-force-used-inmate/517969001/) Had I done that to begin with, I would have had a lot more information, and also before Mikey posted his link.
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OK, it sounds as though the original link I posted may have been altered. [....]From what you are saying, I would guess the information at the end of that link I provided has changed. If so, you and I cannot converse reasonably about the incident given the two different levels of information
Wow, no I had none of that stuff you said, just one video of the chair. So yeah, no wonder we had different reactions. I have been back there at least 6 times, including just now, and it is still just that one video and a few sketchy paragraphs of not much info.
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Yeah, that certainly explains our different reactions.
That said, you folks should know me pretty well by now and I think I am pretty even handed and reasonable most of the time (a loose pack of forum.... 'gentleman' excepted, and that only ever happened one time, on one forum- I am now bait proof :-) ). I do not normally scream that we should stop everything and deal with some insignificant issue.
And even in this instance, they did not kill or maime anyone.
That said, this clearly crosses the line of acceptable behavior by LEO personnel in my opinion, and further, there is some FaceTwit posting by the Chief (? the head of that dept) smirking and poking fun at this event. I believe those three LEO's should be cited, punished at the very least, and dismissed and charged at the worst, and the Chief of the Dept., any anyone else in a position of authority such as the Mayor or Town council leader held accountable for this frankly Pi$$ poor behavior.
This is not how I want my country to run and I do not support, condone, allow or think of it as 'hey, stuff happens....'.
Brian
Wow, no I had none of that stuff you said, just one video of the chair. So yeah, no wonder we had different reactions. I have been back there at least 6 times, including just now, and it is still just that one video and a few sketchy paragraphs of not much info.
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I watched 2 videos from the links provide, one was 4+ minutes from the time he had the spit guard applied, and then the ensuing electronically charged wrestling match. The other was the 1.16 min UK version when the officer said he'd tase til he ran out of batteries.
So how about a view from a guy who has been there, done that? ::) BTW, let me explain that most folks would see the number of officers as being excessive force; the fact is the more officers, the easier it is to restrain / subdue an inmate / subject without hurting them. Or if they're bad officers, really kick the subject's butt :-X.
1) originally the inmate was softly restrained, that's why his hands could be pulled close enough, and he could bend over enough, to pull the spit mask down. Oh, and BTW, he didn't get in the chair accidentally, he was being a problem before that. Then sliding the chair and trying to pull out of the restrains - so he's obviously still resisting.
2) the officer on the right arm was attempting to move the restraint to another location at the end of the chair side rail, to prevent an further effort to escape the chair / spitguard but the inmate was resisting.
3) officer # 3 comes in to help get the right wrist restraint secured. Inmate still resisting.
4) inmate resists the officer holding the spit guard, leans forward, and is trying to BITE officer #3's forearm.
5) At this point the taser is brought in.The inmate ALWAYS had the opportunity to comply. He was communicating during tasing. He could well have said "enough" just as well as said "FU".
Based on the repeated tasing, the inability of the officers to fully secure the right arm (and needing to resecure the left arm) it APPEARS like it's torture. IMO, it's not.
Even if during each tasing he was so tensed up that he couldn't comply, when they stopped each application and his body relaxed, he could have gone limp in compliance. He CHOSE not to.
What you're seeing is an incredible amount of rage and willpower. Do you want to deal with that guy, once he gets out of the restraints? I wouldn't - and actually I have - and it's scary as hell.
Now I really think we DO have an excessive force issue with LE in the US, I think that the tide is turning and most officers know they're under the microscope now. These detention deputies SURELY know there was a camera filming them from several directions. They tried to be as gentle as the inmate would allow - he forced the issue.
so in the famous words of Strother Martin from Cool Hand Luke ... " What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. . . well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men." :battle:
If I were on a civilian review panel, I'd call it a justified use of force, and advise the subject to straighten out his life, because as he can see, "stupid hurts"
Steve
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Excellent explanation, Thank you Steve ! I agree whole-heartedly with your analysis of the video. Too bad for the perp, but with the impending lawsuit against the officers, it appears he didn't learn his lesson..
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I do not think it is the responsibility or even the prerogative for L.E.O.'s to 'teach anyone any lessons'. They exist (as LEO's) to maintain the public safety. With that kid strapped to a chair, I cannot see what public danger he posed. Had those officers stepped 8 feet away, the kid in the chair could not have caused any threat or inflicted any type of harm on anyone at all. Pushing that chair, from the rear if the officers were afraid of him spitting on them, into a remote area and leaving him isolated would have easily addressed the situation.
But those officers have been suspended, so perhaps there are yet more lessons to be learned, and most of them not to be learned by the kid who was in the chair.
Again, and as always, I support L.E.O.'s performing their jobs. And perhaps a little excess here and there; people are people (in positions of authority or not) and tempers flare.... the occasional 'cuff' is to be expected in the real world. But the planned, severe abuse and physical assaults of persons after the altercation is over cannot be tolerated or explained away. And it is quite clear we are seeing more and more of these instances now that the world is full of video, grabbing moving images of almost everything, almost all the time.
Brian
Excellent explanation, Thank you Steve ! I agree whole-heartedly with your analysis of the video. Too bad for the perp, but with the impending lawsuit against the officers, it appears he didn't learn his lesson..
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And something else to think about regarding this incident: this kind of behavior, on the part of patients, happens all the time in mental health facilities. And it is dealt with all the time by mental health professionals, usually large male nurses (because that is what is available), and this type of behavior on the part of any staff would simply not be tolerated by the patients, by that staff member's co- workers, by the institution where it occurred, or by the state in which it occurred. Certainly it happened in these institutions a century ago and longer back but not today or even in recent decades.
I have some first- hand knowledge of this because I have a relative (female, and she used to come home with the bruises after a 'tough day at the office) who worked in and managed a portion of the psych. unit in a hospital.
When someone is acting like a, well, a 'putz' and completely out of control, I think almost all of us feel like giving them a smack. And after a while of dealing with a lot of them, there must be a temptation to give one or more of them a LOT of smacks. But those tasked with dealing with these situations must be able to avoid these temptations and tendencies, or they should be prevented from being in those positions in the first place. And by the way, I count myself among those who would NOT be able to do anything like this, day after day, without becoming altered for the worse by the experience.
And this type of restraint and applicable career paths for individuals is not limited to those dealing with difficult, combative people either. My wife chair the board of a local day care (not for profit) that my own children went to several decades ago and the people who work there are also special IMO and can deal with what I would call exasperating children (not all, and not always but more than enough, all the time) from fussy infants all the way to nasty 12 year olds. Another job I could not do but the people who do do those tasks are simply wonderful at it.... and very well supervised BTW. Even the little slip- up I mentioned earlier (giving a person who so desperately needs one a 'pop') is simply not tolerable; those people simply cannot lose their tempers or lose control with the children under any circumstances. They can, on occasion, leave the room and the building, go around the corner and punch the wall though. :-)
Brian
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Sick bastards. Can't control their own life, so they try and control others.
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Sick bastards. Can't control their own life, so they try and control others.
Well, they're guards at the county lock up. I'd say controlling the inmates is their job. That doesn't make them sick. And if you're one of the inmates, you've left the world of democracy. You no longer have a say in how your day to day life goes. hHe jailers have that say. And if you break the rules there are consequences. Now if little Johnny decides he's tougher and more stubborn than the guards are, what are they supposed to do? Say Johnny's having a rough day and just let him be? No. Not even close. They have to establish and maintain control from the very beginning of Johnny's stay. I'm not sure what led to Johnny being put in a restraint chair, but I have an opinion that inmates who obey the rules don't get put in it. And I'm just going to be very blunt and say that stupid hurts. And it should. And this little exercise served a far broader purpose: all the rest of those model citizens on the wrong side of the glass are watching Johnny get his nuts zapped off and thinking to themselves, "I'm not doing whatever he just did." I'll bet the jail was quiet as a Monday morning church that night.
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Torture is torture. Call it what it is. It may have it's uses but you can't dress it up and pretend it's something else.
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Well, we all have different takes and attitudes I suppose.
In my world, 'the jailers' do not have that say, "We The People" do, and they wrote that really big so even the 'hard of seeing' can figure it out. The jailers enforce OUR RULES, not impose their will on anyone.
They are also not empowered to 'teach anyone a lesson' on any subject. That is what courts, judges and juries are for, and readily available.
I think I understand your opinion, how it should be applied, to whom it should be applied and under what authority. And it would be frightening should you be in any position to abuse anyone using the 'public authority' as a shield or excuse.
Certainly the authorities must maintain control but I do not believe anyone suggested cutting that kid loose and letting him do whatever he wanted, and I know for a fact that I suggested no such thing. But as has been said over and over, he was strapped to a rugged chair clearly was not a threat to anyone, as has been said over and over before.
I live in a circle of people who have a hard time identifying 'truth, justice and the American way'; when I mentioned seeing this video: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/state-troopers-suspended-over-video-showing-beating-driver-after-pursuit.html (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/state-troopers-suspended-over-video-showing-beating-driver-after-pursuit.html) A relative told me that was merely media bias. Media bias? Sure looks like bicep / tricep / bicep / tricep / bicep..... to me. I wonder how the media biased the back of that kid's head with those LEO's fists? Ah, it must have been the angle the video was taken from; from the "correct" angle, they were respectfully handcuffing him and reading him his constitutional rights. Did the kid 'step in it'? Yep. Did he cause a bit of a ruckus? Again, yep. What happened when he did stop? He got out of the car and laid down on the road as he was told to do and the LEO's surrounded him, pistols drawn (all fine, correct, prudent and w/in both the law and any sane person's beliefs I believe) but then at least two LEOs got down on the ground and beat the kid's face into the asphalt.... repeatedly. They were clearly very angry (which is fine) but their actions are both criminal as well as very well defining that they cannot function in that capacity (LEO interacting with the public).
These debates will continue as long as more than two people draw breath. And that is fine. But when things get excessive, there is often a reckoning. We are seeing some of that now, and I suspect we are going to see a lot more of it before long at all.
BTW: I have noticed a substantial drop off in business at my local gun shop. Another thing I have noticed is that there are a LOT more young people, and a Lot more black people purchasing firearms. Note that this is a very white area so three people w/in eye- shot that are not together is a bit unusual; I am now seeing 8, 10 or more black individuals in a larger gun store all at one time, all appearing to be there independently. Of course I cannot tell how many police abuse victims may be there 'cause they are wearing shirts and the taser burns just do not show.... But as it gets more violent out there, I am thinking we (society) are going to run out of sadistic jailers before we run out of armed, cranky people.
Brian
Well, they're guards at the county lock up. I'd say controlling the inmates is their job. That doesn't make them sick. And if you're one of the inmates, you've left the world of democracy. You no longer have a say in how your day to day life goes. hHe jailers have that say. And if you break the rules there are consequences. Now if little Johnny decides he's tougher and more stubborn than the guards are, what are they supposed to do? Say Johnny's having a rough day and just let him be? No. Not even close. They have to establish and maintain control from the very beginning of Johnny's stay. I'm not sure what led to Johnny being put in a restraint chair, but I have an opinion that inmates who obey the rules don't get put in it. And I'm just going to be very blunt and say that stupid hurts. And it should. And this little exercise served a far broader purpose: all the rest of those model citizens on the wrong side of the glass are watching Johnny get his nuts zapped off and thinking to themselves, "I'm not doing whatever he just did." I'll bet the jail was quiet as a Monday morning church that night.
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I will save the pontification that you like to subject us all to and say that yes we disagree on this issue.
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Ah, the personal insult that tops your entire outlook..... Excellent!
BTW- no such word as "Ponfification" in English. Well, I guess you could get someone to use it in a sentence is you tased them sufficiently. Lucky for you, 'tase' IS a word, as well as an act that can be sadistic, sort of a win- win, eh?
Brian
I will save the pontification that you like to subject us all to and say that yes we disagree on this issue.
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Well pontificate is a word and I know you can understand what I meant. And it's an observation after many years of seeing your long-breathed posts on any given number of subjects. Not a personal attack. Brian, I think you're a **** head. Now that is personal. And not what I'm implying either, Just drawing a stark contrast so you can see my point. So yes, I was just going to say we disagree and leave it at that but you also have quite a need to have the last word. I don't have a need to try to prove I'm the smartest person in the room whenever I walk into one. But have at it. My opinion won't change one way or another. Nor should yours.
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Tomatoe, tomato. You say pontification, I say schmuck. Tase on you small man, and hope to become a real person.... though you will never make it.
Mad, ain't ya'? And there is the difference between us: I know better than to be engaged by small people. Now granted, some of you have sucked me in in the past but now I know better.
But I do have to comment on you not being the smartest person in the room- I think you hit the jackpot there! :rotflmao:
Strap 'em down and tase 'em small man.
And BTW- you could change my opinion at any time with any reasonable, articulate discussion. By all means, tell me why those three people had to tase that kid so that I can understand it.
Let's see if I got the last word in or not. ;) ;D ;D ;D
Brian
Well pontificate is a word and I know you can understand what I meant. And it's an observation after many years of seeing your long-breathed posts on any given number of subjects. Not a personal attack. Brian, I think you're a **** head. Now that is personal. And not what I'm implying either, Just drawing a stark contrast so you can see my point. So yes, I was just going to say we disagree and leave it at that but you also have quite a need to have the last word. I don't have a need to try to prove I'm the smartest person in the room whenever I walk into one. But have at it. My opinion won't change one way or another. Nor should yours.
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He's coming back for another round!
ROFLMAO
Brian
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But he types slow.
:rotflmao:
"But just at that moment, as though at a signal, all the sheep burst out into a tremendous bleating of-
"Four legs good, two legs better! Four legs good, two legs better! Four legs good, two legs better!"
It went on for five minutes without stopping. And by the time the sheep had quieted down, the chance to utter any protest had passed, for the pigs had marched back into the farmhouse."
-go look that one up for yourselves but this is a real- life rendition.
Brian
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Remember my 'last word' statement? And you typed an awful lot for some one who doesn't engage us small people. And for the record, I'm not mad at all. Not even a bit ruffled. Please don't try to project anything on me. You'll fail miserably. And you've already proved my point 100 fold without me ever typing a word. I'll give you the definition of pontificate, since you seem unable to find it yourself. Or do you realize yet that you made a typo and that's why your google search came up empty?
noun
1.
the office or term of office of a pontiff.
verb (used without object), pontificated, pontificating.
2.
to perform the office or duties of a pontiff.
3.
to speak in a pompous or dogmatic manner:
Did he pontificate about the responsibilities of a good citizen?
4.
to serve as a bishop, especially in a Pontifical Mass.
I set definition 3 in boldface in case it wasn't clear. Now let's explain it to the masses (my fellow small people):
To pontificate is to talk in a dogmatic and pompous manner. To pontificate properly, you need to be a know-it-all with very strong opinions and the urge to share them.
Kinda hits the nail on the head, doesn't it? And all you have is tase away. Silly man. But please, give us another example of just how darn smart you are. I'm in awe of your intellect.
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:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Waiting on new batteries are you?
'Here, kitty, kitty..... '
Are you supposed to be this far out without your pack leader? This presents an odd situation because he has to be careful as he wants to sell stuff to the flock, and while he wants you surrounding him and barking and growling at them who would cast him in a bad light, he cannot have too much exposure over here 'cause he is not protected the way he is over there.
Or are you operating under the general umbrella of 'Get him!? Yeah, I can see how that might work.
But really, explain to all of us how those LEO's had to tase that guy some more while he was strapped into that chair because he had not yet learned his lesson. I promise I will listen to any and all points of view, although that pesky Constitution thingy might get in the way.
Now, on a serious note, minions like you will always be around but your leaders are going to be taking a beating now with video everywhere. Oh well, there are other countries you can ply your methods in, mostly in Africa but Asia too. Best of luck to you and your implements of torture.
Brian
Remember my 'last word' statement? And you typed an awful lot for some one who doesn't engage us small people. And for the record, I'm not mad at all. Not even a bit ruffled. Please don't try to project anything on me. You'll fail miserably. And you've already proved my point 100 fold without me ever typing a word. I'll give you the definition of pontificate, since you seem unable to find it yourself. Or do you realize yet that you made a typo and that's why your google search came up empty?
noun
1.
the office or term of office of a pontiff.
verb (used without object), pontificated, pontificating.
2.
to perform the office or duties of a pontiff.
3.
to speak in a pompous or dogmatic manner:
Did he pontificate about the responsibilities of a good citizen?
4.
to serve as a bishop, especially in a Pontifical Mass.
I set definition 3 in boldface in case it wasn't clear. Now let's explain it to the masses (my fellow small people):
To pontificate is to talk in a dogmatic and pompous manner. To pontificate properly, you need to be a know-it-all with very strong opinions and the urge to share them.
Kinda hits the nail on the head, doesn't it? And all you have is tase away. Silly man. But please, give us another example of just how darn smart you are. I'm in awe of your intellect.
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Hey Bruce,
Let's pick this up again tomorrow, OK? I have to go tend to a few things.
Best Regards and have a great day (seriously, not sarcastically because you having a great day does not damage me in the least, and all else being equal, your suffering does me no good in exactly the same amount).
Brian
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Just thank me for expanding your vocabulary and it's all good. I have no need to pick anything up. My point about you has been made. Tasing that guy was legal, whether you agree or not. Was it excessive? Debatable and we both know which side either of us stands. Insults by you aside, there's nothing further to discuss,and I feel your personal insults would have a profoundly different tone if we were in the same room. But that's the nature of the internet where normal filters can be ignored. So indeed sleep well, revel in your smugness and I do hope you're in a part of the world where you can enjoy the eclipse at least in part if not total.
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Got a minute but should be enough- I can type.
Increased my vocabulary: Yep, I know one more imaginary word to go with the others: "Pontification", a Bruce Reafsnfer (sp?- seriously, I cannot remember you last name but you are the fellow in TN if memory serves), to go along with Ironical and electroncial. Not likely to become a favorite of mine though, it lacks any amusing qualities. Like the questions 'Is that battery or electric', hence 'electroncial'.
Oh yeah, you have made your point- taze them till they get what they have coming!
Interesting how my insults are an aside while yours are apparently, what? Important? Meaningful? Do we need a new word to describe them.... perhaps 'Importantical'?
Good point- Tasing the guy was legal, hence the suspension of the officers involved.
Profoundly different tone if we were in the same room: Now if you mean we could have a civil conversation, perhaps. If you are adding threats to your insults, Yawn.
Ah, the eclipse: well Bruce, If I may call you Bruce, I honestly do not know if I am in the eclipse zone or not. If so, will take a look. No big deal to me either way though- I remember the last one in the mid- 90's here was something of a let- down. Not a true and full eclipse so the corona was not really visible: I thought I saw it on one side but really, it may have been my imagination.
But the same wish back at you, if you are in the path of the full eclipse. Cool beans IF is is full enough to actually see the corona. It is not usually visible and well worth taking a look if you can.
And if you are the Bruce in TN that I am thinking of, my sincere condolences regarding the recent events that are attacking parts of Southern History. One of my most respected Confederate participants was (is) Nathan Bedford Forrest, a native of TN I believe. An outstanding soldier, officer and gentleman; I can readily support his conviction and iron will in support of his cause without having to appreciate or believe in all that he was or did. But it is that way with everyone, is it not? Perhaps you and I could even find some things we do agree on and respect each other for in behavior or accomplishment?
Back to the topic at hand: yes, we clearly disagree. But I would and will accept a civilian board's adjudication on the matter, if such a board exists, and move on. Over time, the situation will improve if 'The People' want it to improve, and video being taken from all directions, seemingly all the time, will go a long way to advance that idea and ideal. The kid in the chair has a lawsuit in process, and everyone will have their day in court, and I like to believe a better 'truth' will come out of this.
More video, more civilian oversight, less tolerance of misbehavior and it will all get better for everyone.
Brian.
Just thank me for expanding your vocabulary and it's all good. I have no need to pick anything up. My point about you has been made. Tasing that guy was legal, whether you agree or not. Was it excessive? Debatable and we both know which side either of us stands. Insults by you aside, there's nothing further to discuss,and I feel your personal insults would have a profoundly different tone if we were in the same room. But that's the nature of the internet where normal filters can be ignored. So indeed sleep well, revel in your smugness and I do hope you're in a part of the world where you can enjoy the eclipse at least in part if not total.
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Skipped right over your head, did it? I was making the point that you can ot possibly let some one have the last say. You always reserve that for yourself.
The only point I'll make is that the officers were placed on administrative duty while the matter is investigated. I think that's fairly standard procedure for most departments. As for threat? Not hardly. I find they are wholly unnecessary. And pontification is not a made up word. Just one you haven't heard and perhaps not used often in regular conversation. Despite your assumption that I'm low intellect because...why? Oh right. I don't agree with you. So you choose to equate me to a 3rd world dictator. Or his minion. And do some more homework on Forrest. I do pass the monster statue of him on I65. And hear nightly about having his bust removed from the state house, and live close to a subdivision with his name on it. But aside from helping to form the kkk & then denouncing it, there's some darkness in his past. But I digress. So please don't let my pontification on the matter cause you to lose any sleep. See what I did there? I think I'll use that word, whether real or imaginary, in every thread now! If you'd like to truly know the history of Franklin, TN I can take you to some great sites that were key to the battle. There will be no discussions of religion or politics, and we will have some good food, drinks, and nice roads to ride.
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Did you not put in your last word about four posts ago?
Seriously, go have a happy eclipse, if it travels through your area. And be sure to wear eye protection!
Brian
The only point I'll make is that the officers were placed on administrative duty while the matter is investigated. I think that's fairly standard procedure for most departments. As for threat? Not hardly. I find they are wholly unnecessary. And pontification is not a made up word. Just one you haven't heard and perhaps not used often in regular conversation. Despite your assumption that I'm low intellect because...why? Oh right. I don't agree with you. So you choose to equate me to a 3rd world dictator. Or his minion. And do some more homework on Forrest. I do pass the monster statue of him on I65. And hear nightly about having his bust removed from the state house, and live close to a subdivision with his name on it. But aside from helping to form the kkk & then denouncing it, there's some darkness n his past. But I digress. So please don't let my pontification on the matter cause you to lose any sleep
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Laughs as he point up, mouths 'Who has to have the last word?' and chuckles at how easy it is to troll people if you know what buttons to press. Goodnight all.
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Yep, you are indeed the clever one. You got the 'tater!
Now, back to the point of this thread, the tasing of that kind strapped in a chair. It happened in TN, and I find it very interesting the only person finding it right and fitting that this happened is also in TN, which speaks poorly of due process in that state. Of course, he was merely 'trolling'.... probably so were the officers with the tasers. Them Tenesseans are a laugh- riot lot, always kiddin' around. Yeah, that is it..... But then again, we are used to that; things change slowly in the some sections of the south and changing the 'hearts and minds' of the locals can be difficult. Still, the tide is rolling in and it seems to be rolling faster all the time so I feel confident that issues exactly like this tasing example will accelerate change. If not from within, then from without but either way, the changes they are a' commin'.
No matter, I plan on going west, and a long way north of the Mason- Dixon line at that. Not that it matters, the line means nothing west of Pennsylvania, and my plans go much further than that... past the rust belt in fact. Hopefully things will stay pretty much the same for the remainder of my life. I wish the very best on the next generation but honestly cannot gauge how that will go because the people themselves are different than we (the old generation) are and so we cannot judge the right or wrong of their thinking or the results of their ideas IMO. They will shape the future world but again, hopefully not before I get out of this one, at least a section of this one.
Brian
Laughs as he point up, mouths 'Who has to have the last word?' and chuckles at how easy it is to troll people if you know what buttons to press. Goodnight all.
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Oh Brian you can sleep soundly and change your travel plans. I'm not originally from Tennessee. But you'll find the general mood in the Nashville area to be quite liberal. So by all means feel free to come visit this fine state. What changes need to happen, exactly? I look around and I judge it a very nice place to live. Good weather, beautiful countryside, wonderful people.