Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Diablo6v on April 07, 2017, 09:01:25 AM

Title: Group 4 Oils
Post by: Diablo6v on April 07, 2017, 09:01:25 AM
Hi,
Is anyone running a group 4 oil. Like Amsoil or Royal Purple? If so what are your change intervals? Thanks
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 07, 2017, 11:55:49 AM
Oh my.... :popcorn:   I've used Amsoil in the past and wasn't impressed with the shifting after a while.  I'm using Mobil1 4T now and like it.  I change mine either every 5k or once a year.
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: Diablo6v on April 07, 2017, 12:40:35 PM
Amsoil makes a Metric Motorcycle specific oil to prevent the shifting issue. Where you running that or the regular 10w-40?
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 07, 2017, 01:09:26 PM
You know, that was so far back I really don't remember, but if they had a mc specific oil in 2007 on, I would have used that.  I don't think I've used car oil in any of my bikes.
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: maxtog on April 07, 2017, 02:34:52 PM
Oil Thread!!!!
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: tweeter55 on April 07, 2017, 02:50:51 PM
Oil Thread!!!!
Beat me to it. :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: sailor_chic on April 07, 2017, 03:50:13 PM
Stop all speculation on when you change your oil. Simply send a sample to Blackstone labs and they will test it and you then will know the exact condition of your oil. Then you can make up your maintenance schedule.
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: Daytona_Mike on April 07, 2017, 07:00:41 PM
Unfortunately here in North America you will not and cannot tell if you are really using a group 4 base (PAO) oil.
I used to be an Amsoil person  (pyramid sale company with no refineries- I bet you did not know that) but that all changed when they changed.
In parts of Europe and for sure in  Germany it is illegal to call group 2 oil 'synthetic' like they do here. So I buy Motul and my favorite is Motul 5100 (just for C10 and C14)  I use other oils for my KTM's and CanAms.
The smoothness of the shifting is vastly increased with this oil.  Try it. You will be a believer .
I too send all my oil to Blackstone.  They will tell you how well your choice of oil is doing because otherwise you are  just guessing with no data to support your claims.  It gets old hearing '30 years and I never had a problem-'  Smokers say the same thing.
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 08, 2017, 05:20:33 AM
All this logic (using Blackstone) concerning oils has no place in this thread.  ;)
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: sailor_chic on April 08, 2017, 07:00:21 AM
All this logic (using Blackstone) concerning oils has no place in this thread.  ;)

Gee, sorry for my input. I'll definitely refrain from posting here from now on. I was under the impression that forums were a place to offer advice to fellow motorcycle enthusiasts. Once again, my dad was right, I shouldn't think.
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: tjhess74 on April 08, 2017, 07:58:19 AM
Easy Nicole! He was being sarcastic...hence his winky face!

BTW, I'm still super happy with your horn setup. I always enjoy any opportunity to hit that button! People do not expect that sound to come from something they didn't even notice.
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 08, 2017, 09:36:17 AM
Hey, he's right....just kidding.
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: Diablo6v on April 10, 2017, 12:46:36 PM
"Unfortunately here in North America you will not and cannot tell if you are really using a group 4 base (PAO) oil" If you go the either Royal Purple or the Amsoil sites. They say right there, that they are group 4 oils. I think you mixed that up with Synthetic which is a marketing term only.
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: Daytona_Mike on April 10, 2017, 01:55:10 PM
you are correct Diablo6v .   Funny thing about Amsoil is they have two types of motorcycle oil. 100% Synthetic and  just Synthetic.   I was not aware they (and Royal Purple)  stated the base oil type.  I wonder if Red Line does. I use their oil in my turbo Supra.  Pricey stuff.

update: I was trying to find that info on PAO base oil  for amsoil. It looks like in 2012 they removed that claim from their website. Maybe you were looking at old information?  There seems to be so much mis-information  out there it is hard to know what to believe anymore.
http://www.mytractorforum.com/197-dons-synthetic-lubes/230453-amsoil-still-pao-based.html (http://www.mytractorforum.com/197-dons-synthetic-lubes/230453-amsoil-still-pao-based.html)

Hmm..  just like  Amsoil , Royal Purple has no refineries. They are 'mixers' so they buy oil, mix in some additives and resell it. I think I will stick to Motul for my Concours.
Motul used  have their own refinery but they have closed their refineries in France and now it is all made in Italy. Hmm.... olive oil?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motul_(company) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motul_(company))
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: Diablo6v on April 11, 2017, 06:17:19 AM
I am not trying to argue. Just inform..

"There are many oils out there that call themselves synthetic, but not all are created equal, and that is important to know. You do get what you pay for. Group III synthetic oils only use about 12% synthetic base stocks. The rest is hyrdo-cracked petroleum base stocks. For major oil companies who have their money in crude oil refining, the word "synthetic" is merely a marketing term. It does not mean 100%, but just that a percentage of synthetic base stock goes into their product.
The oils that are commonly mentioned are Group II and Group III synthetics with the exception of Royal Purple, which is a Group V. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic (PAO) but also uses Group V Ester technology. It gives you the best of Group IV and Group V synthetics. Mobil 1 is a Group III synthetic. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic."

I did my research before I bought Amsoil. Maybe I will try Royal Purple next?  :)
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 11, 2017, 06:32:32 AM
All interesting information.  With my bike and my riding habits, Mobil1 4T works fine...although somewhat pricey.
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: Cuda on April 15, 2017, 04:59:46 AM
Years ago I was picking up oil for my bike and Royal Purple was on sale , a fluke

I knew a well trained factory  Mechanic that loved the stuff 

So I cleaned off the shelf,

I was using Mobil 1 at the time

The shifting has been fantastic ever since , not that it was bad with the 1 , but definitely better .

I did put close to 10,000 on one oil change , have the container from Blackstone was going to send it in but at $30.00 for the test

that is almost another oil change ;)



I know the Cat dealer will have your oil tested , never asked about the price from them.

Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 15, 2017, 07:59:21 AM
Cuda, what type of Royal Purple are you using?
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: gPink on April 15, 2017, 08:11:59 AM
The purple kind?
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: maxtog on April 15, 2017, 10:40:51 AM
The purple kind?

That would be Barney, which would be dinosaur which would not be synthetic :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_%26_Friends
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: gPink on April 15, 2017, 10:51:10 AM
 :chugbeer: Talk about mental gymnastics....
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: B.D.F. on April 15, 2017, 12:46:42 PM
Hey, only two pages and you actually got an answer (Cuda)! Not bad at all for an oil thread.

Most of them contain zero useful information, sorta' like this post.....  ;D

Brian

Hi,
Is anyone running a group 4 oil. Like Amsoil or Royal Purple? If so what are your change intervals? Thanks
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 16, 2017, 09:22:18 AM
The purple kind?

Sigh..
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: Cuda on April 16, 2017, 12:42:18 PM
The oil is not purple and the only reason I will continual to use it is because the shifting is better and does not seem to change with high miles.

I bought a new Ford  van in 1977 and used Mobil 1 for he next 300,000 miles,  pulled the head, just thought it was time to take a look, it was a  300ci 6

cylinder,  the Mechanic's shop where it was at  thought synthetic oil was a sales gimmick 1984,   until he saw the cylinder walls,  had no real wear , His


real job  was quality control ,  dyno testing big block Chevy motors at the Tonawanda engine plant where they were made , he became a believer  ...

Down on your knees brothers and sisters  ::)

Anyhow it use to be a synthetic oil HAD to be truly a synthetic oil but that law was changed to just meeting certain requirements to be called

Synthetic  ???      Oils in general are a lot better today then when we were kids ;)

Jim when I bought the stores supply it was mostly 20w-50 with some 10w-30 but you have to remember where I live it will NOT get below 70 degrees for

the next seven months  ::)  from the  Niagara Falls area.

Moral of the story if your shifting seems to be a problem try it.

Speaking of high priced oils , just bought 5 gals of tranny fluid for a Allison transmission HOLY CHIT $50.00 a gal. :banghead: 
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: Cuda on April 16, 2017, 12:50:00 PM
http://www.qmi.no/teknisk/norway%20photos/streetcommodorecover.pdf (http://www.qmi.no/teknisk/norway%20photos/streetcommodorecover.pdf)
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: Diablo6v on April 18, 2017, 11:27:34 AM
I am glad that this thread is more informative than argumentative. LOL Thanks for the last Article. I see that Royal Purple did its Job. I only have about 1,200 on the Amsoil so I will let you know how it holds up.
Title: Re: Group 4 Oils
Post by: maxtog on April 18, 2017, 03:21:55 PM
I see that Royal Purple did its Job.

On a single metric that was tested, yes.  There is also general durability, general longevity, ability to withstand extreme temperatures, ability to maintain stated viscosity ranges, clingability (excuse the non-technical terms, I am no oil engineer), ability to withstand different types of contamination, and lots of other stuff.  But the single metric is often more info than we have on anything.  Too bad Liquid Molly 4T wasn't one they tested.