Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: mikeyw64 on March 06, 2017, 04:10:44 PM
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Ok so I've got a Gen 1 and I'm not going to mention anything that may already have been changed (if I can help it)
So in no particular order lets kick off and see what others add to the list/comment on
1) A Bigger Fuel Tank (min 26 litres)
2) Squarer Mirrors . I know they were raised for the Gen 2 but IMHO the upwards sweep whilst looking nice creates a missing spot. (Compare with the mirrors on the ST1100 or the GTR1000)
3) Hazard lights that operate with ignition off
4) A Proper fuel low level light instead of the annoying big message (Ok Ok I know you can cancel it but unless you've fitted the Bypass mod you lose the range functionality when you possibly need it most). Actually a proper fuel tap would be nicer, always did prefer those.
5) Tyre Pressure Monitors with self charging batteries (think watches)
6) Larger Capacity Panniers (possibly expandable like some BMWs?)
7) A "cycle' Option on the dash display so it goes through each of the available screens every X second
8) Mirror mounted Indicators
9) LED/HID headlight
10) Almost didnt add this as not strictly necessary but I like, Switchback DRL/Indicators
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Likewise, I have a gen1 and have done some of the mods listed to improve mine. What I don't see and after experiencing an issue 2 weekends ago which is a known problem, I would *love* to see a better and improved KiPass system. While I like the keyless fob and up until my recent issue, I'm all in for a new or better KiPass.
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IMO you have the biggies except....offer a Cruise Control for us that want that option!
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You forgot to top off that list with perhaps the most important item: a lower price.
Funny but we've been through this before and after all the folks wanting changes to the bike, and getting them in the Gen.2 and then Gen. 2.1, the number of price complaints went way up. Seems Kawasaki expects US to pay for these changes- imagine the nerve! :-)
Honestly, I can see the entire line of sport- tourers languishing. Honda has basically bowed out- I do not think they put $7 into R&D or upgrades on their ST in a decade. Yamaha has only managed one major upgrade. I fully believe that Kawasaki only builds C-14's because they also make ZX 14's; which is why the fuel tank is the size it is BTW, not a choice but the one they had lying around that fit the frame, that fit the engine, that fit the front end, etc. If they had to build the bike from scratch I would not be surprised in the least if they abandoned the whole idea of a Sport Tourer, as BMW has and as has everyone who used to make a full size tourer save Honda (and maybe Harley but they really only make one bike planform so they do not count).
Brian
Ok so I've got a Gen 1 and I'm not going to mention anything that may already have been changed (if I can help it)
So in no particular order lets kick off and see what others add to the list/comment on
1) A Bigger Fuel Tank (min 26 litres)
2) Squarer Mirrors . I know they were raised for the Gen 2 but IMHO the upwards sweep whilst looking nice creates a missing spot. (Compare with the mirrors on the ST1100 or the GTR1000)
3) Hazard lights that operate with ignition off
4) A Proper fuel low level light instead of the annoying big message (Ok Ok I know you can cancel it but unless you've fitted the Bypass mod you lose the range functionality when you possibly need it most). Actually a proper fuel tap would be nicer, always did prefer those.
5) Tyre Pressure Monitors with self charging batteries (think watches)
6) Larger Capacity Panniers (possibly expandable like some BMWs?)
7) A "cycle' Option on the dash display so it goes through each of the available screens every X second
8) Mirror mounted Indicators
9) LED/HID headlight
10) Almost didnt add this as not strictly necessary but I like, Switchback DRL/Indicators
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This is a rehash of existing threads...
Summary from what I can remember of the generally popular/accepted ones:
1) Projector [HID/LED] headlights (self leveling even better) $$$ (but worth it)
2) Cruise control $0
3) Larger fuel tank $0
4) LED lights all around (brake/turn/markers) $0
5) Larger, color computer screen with more simultaneous readouts and options $+
6) Mirror mounted turn signals and marker/running lights $0 or minimal
7 ) Ability to turn off linked brakes $0
8 ) TPS that has external batteries $minimal
9) Built-in rollover/crash protection bars or at least mounts for them $minimal for mounts or $$ for bars
10) Throttle by wire $required at this point so it doesn't matter
But just as important, the DO NOT CHANGE:
1) DO NOT TAKE AWAY THE ANALOG SPEEDOMETER AND TACHOMETER!
2) Don't change the shaft drive, it really works well.
3) Don't make it heavier.
4) Don't make it any taller.
5) Don't mess with the transmission- it is super nice.
We could go crazy with lots of exotic things (active suspension, electronic suspension, remote locking of bags, proprietary GPS, etc), but the bike would cost as much as a BMW :) Well, maybe not THAT much....
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Well, you know, it's that time of year and we haven't had one of those threads in awhile.. I want cup holders and a shrubbery.
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Well, you know, it's that time of year and we haven't had one of those threads in awhile.. I want cup holders and a shrubbery.
I will be utterly shocked if things haven't change for 2018. We had a nice, even DECADE of the C14... that is quite impressive! But Kawasaki needs to do a bit more than adding a mailslot on the windshield and painting the wheels black if they want to retain their top spot in this class.
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My Wish list:
Hydraulic valve lifters
Any other OEM tires than BS 021's
A proper OEM seat like Seth Laam can do
An exhaust pipe that doesn't visually assault the retinas and weighs less than 16 stone
Pay SISF big dollars to go to Japan and re- flash all the C-14's before they come here
Cruise control
All this for the same dollar allocation- ha
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My Wish list:
Hydraulic valve lifters[...]
That's a good one. I kinda doubt Kawasaki would do that, but wouldn't it be nice...
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Height adjustable seat
Optional highway pegs or good mounting location for after markets that do not require tipover bars.
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Next gen should get ride-by-wire with built in CC to keep up with the competition.
Optional ESA maybe
But it also really needs to fix the evil flashing:
WARNING/PANIC screens for low fuel, tpms battery.
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Next gen should get ride-by-wire with built in CC to keep up with the competition.
Optional ESA maybe
But it also really needs to fix the evil flashing:
WARNING/PANIC screens for low fuel, tpms battery.
(http://naniwear.com/images/large/HHGtGSmallBag.jpg)
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(http://naniwear.com/images/large/HHGtGSmallBag.jpg)
:thumbs: Exactly right! Kawasaki software engineers need to read Douglas Adams!
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:thumbs: Exactly right! Kawasaki software engineers need to read Douglas Adams!
I think the next model should be "42"
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I think the next model should be "42"
I love it! Kawasaki Concours 42. People would ask what does the 42 stand for? We don't so we are building a super computer to find out!
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As long as it's IBM, I'm ok with that.
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I have a gen 1. The thing I would most like to see on the Next Generation is ME!
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New zx14 motor with no detuning or at least offer as an option, bigger fuel tank and cruise control. I would buy a new bike then.
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New zx14 motor with no detuning or at least offer as an option, bigger fuel tank and cruise control. I would buy a new bike then.
The C14 engine is not "de" tuned, it is tuned differently.... precisely as they wanted and intended for sports touring (reliability, comfort, noise, efficiency, refinement). It is unlikely they would leave it exactly like in the ZX14 (power trumps everything) without "re" tuning it in some ways.
I would be surprised if a new generation C14 came out that was built on this same block, though (since they changed it for the ZX14). It has to increase the complexity, expense, space, etc, to have to maintain the inventory and production capacity for two instead of just one. The more interchangeability they have, the better their bottom line.
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Just to be able to afford the boney...... :'( :'( :'(
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The C14 engine is not "de" tuned, it is tuned differently.... precisely as they wanted and intended for sports touring (reliability, comfort, noise, efficiency, refinement). It is unlikely they would leave it exactly like in the ZX14 (power trumps everything) without "re" tuning it in some ways.
I would be surprised if a new generation C14 came out that was built on this same block, though (since they changed it for the ZX14). It has to increase the complexity, expense, space, etc, to have to maintain the inventory and production capacity for two instead of just one. The more interchangeability they have, the better their bottom line.
I just had one of those "haven't we been here before moments" Max :rotflmao:
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I just had one of those "haven't we been here before moments" Max :rotflmao:
Yep, deja voodoo.
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please add Self Canceling Directionals to the list.
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Had that on the Voyager XII...hated it.
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Had that on the Voyager XII...hated it.
How did it work in the Voyager? I've used them on rental Harley's and they seem to have it figured out. I think they go by distance traveled.
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For me Cruise Control would be the big one to ask for. Should be easy with the fly by wire systems of the new ZX.
The addition of an on-board audio system with Satellite and MP3 capability, and Bluetooth to helmet.
Performance is fine for me.
GPS would be nice but they are often hard to keep maps updated.
Just my 2 cents worth
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ride by wire match with a real electronique cruise control, integrated gps mount like bmw's and maybe better seat option
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For me:
1441 ZX14 R motor
cruise control
Seth Laam seat from factory
loose 50 pounds
If Mama Kaw did this for a gen 3 Connie I would trade my 2014 for it THAT SAME DAY!
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At any price? I mean, would you pay an additional, say, $2,500 for those changes?
And if you were willing to pay for them, how many other people would pay a significant amount more for those specific things you want? I would not pay an additional dollar for the Seth Laam saddle I would take off the bike and replace with a Corbin.
Not trying to be argumentative here, just pointing out that the factory must decide what makes the bike 'better', and especially, more valuable for the majority of the people and then they have to sell enough at a higher price to recover the costs of making those changes in the first place. Just like most people want MORE money for working MORE hours.... not me though, when I work extra, I actually pay my customer for the privilege of having done so... yeah, that's the ticket. ;D
Brian
For me:
1441 ZX14 R motor
cruise control
Seth Laam seat from factory
loose 50 pounds
If Mama Kaw did this for a gen 3 Connie I would trade my 2014 for it THAT SAME DAY!
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At any price? I mean, would you pay an additional, say, $2,500 for those changes?
And if you were willing to pay for them, how many other people would pay a significant amount more for those specific things you want? I would not pay an additional dollar for the Seth Laam saddle I would take off the bike and replace with a Corbin.
Not trying to be argumentative here, just pointing out that the factory must decide what makes the bike 'better', and especially, more valuable for the majority of the people and then they have to sell enough at a higher price to recover the costs of making those changes in the first place. Just like most people want MORE money for working MORE hours.... not me though, when I work extra, I actually pay my customer for the privilege of having done so... yeah, that's the ticket. ;D
Brian
Brian---for me personally I would absolutely jump on it for an extra $2500! I was looking at a BMW K1600GT originally. In Canada it spec'd out at about $30,000 plus tax. Being a lover over Mama Kaw horsepower (I have a 2000 ZX12R Ninja); I looked at the Connie which listed at $19,000 plus tax (13% in Ontario)---I got mine out the door with a 6 year warranty for for $16,000. So for me, $18,500 out the door for the bike I listed above would be a buy it on the spot deal for me! This was a Christmas wish list thread---this was my wish list and might not float someone elses boat.
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Brian---for me personally I would absolutely jump on it for an extra $2500! I was looking at a BMW K1600GT originally. In Canada it spec'd out at about $30,000 plus tax.
But there is always the FRJ looming and it's price. Sure, it is uglier and slower and such, but it (and the Honda) are the main competitors and priced similarly. Like Brian's comment, for me a Lathem seat would go straight in the trash because I would need a Sargent low seat (it is not optional, I HAVE to have the lowest seat possible). So the extra $400 that seat might cost to include just hurts me.
Same thing with a GPS. I will have one. I already have one. Most of us use a phone, anyway. Adding a $1,000 GPS in a new model will ultimately hurt them since most people won't want it.... unless they make it optional.
This was a Christmas wish list thread---this was my wish list and might not float someone elses boat.
Well, you have a valid point, it was a wish list. So do wish away! But you have to be realistic with your wishes if you even expect them to come true. I wish it would get 100MPG and it weighed 300 pounds less and cost $10,000 less... all with the same power and features.... but that ain't happening :) :)
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Ok---I will settle for cruise control and the 1441. Man you guys are harshing my mellow--lol!
Next you will say I can't fantasize about Margot Robbie, and have to settle for Margot Kidder!
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At any price? I mean, would you pay an additional, say, $2,500 for those changes?
And if you were willing to pay for them, how many other people would pay a significant amount more for those specific things you want? I would not pay an additional dollar for the Seth Laam saddle I would take off the bike and replace with a Corbin.
Not trying to be argumentative here, just pointing out that the factory corporate marketing must decide what makes the bike 'better', and especially, more valuable for the majority of the people and then they have to sell enough at a higher price to recover the costs of making those changes in the first place. Just like most people want MORE money for working MORE hours.... not me though, when I work extra, I actually pay my customer for the privilege of having done so... yeah, that's the ticket. ;D
Brian
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How did it work in the Voyager? I've used them on rental Harley's and they seem to have it figured out. I think they go by distance traveled.
My XJ1100J Yamaha Maxim had it figured out in 1982, but I can't figure out how they did it either. ???
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I believe it was distance. It was either signaling too long or not enough. I thought I was in heaven when I got manual signals again.
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Cruise control. It's a touring bike for pete's sake. Everybody else has it, with the exception of Honda and if you haven't updated your bike for years, you don't count.
Make it feel not so top heavy. I realize this is not easy. My #1 complaint with the big is how top heavy it is.
I don't want bigger bags, they're huge already and there is no free lunch, it makes a big, heavy bike more so. Mirrors are fine for me. ESA, who cares. You can't 'fix' a seat for everyone. Turn signals, meh. Stock tires are gonna be cheap and replaced soon, so no biggie.
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Make it feel not so top heavy. I realize this is not easy. My #1 complaint with the big is how top heavy it is.
Top heavy ?
Must just be me :)
I came to the GTR from a Blackbird (or 2 & and prior to that ST1100s) and although its best part of 49kg heavier (wet) than the Bird (& about 23kg lighter [wet] than the ST1100) she doesn't feel it.
That's mainly due to most of the extra weight (a big portion of which is down low in the shaft drive I would imagine plus the fuel is held lower) she doesn't feel it even at low speeds.
But thats just my opinion, I might be strange :)
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We're both strange..
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The C14 has a huge 4 cyl, 16 valve VVT engine, correspondingly large cooling system, and lots of stuff. I don't think there is much way to make it less top-heavy as a sport tourer of this power/capacity other than somewhat exotic things like replacing the fuel tank with carbon fiber and other such advances that would shoot the cost through the roof. I don't think anything else in the class will feel much less top-heavy. This is not to say that I don't agree that it feels top heavy- it is especially so for those of us with short legs.... I just think it is the nature of the type of bike.
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No one said the request had to be reasonable!
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No one said the request had to be reasonable!
True but it would help if it was realistic. Can't get ten pounds a taters in a five pound sack. :banana
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No one said the request had to be reasonable!
Then I want it to function like the Star Wars bikes that fly. However, I'm only willing to spend $500 more for that feature. :rotflmao:
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Then I want it to function like the Star Wars bikes that fly. However, I'm only willing to spend $500 more for that feature. :rotflmao:
Me too! And this would be the ultra classic dayna wide glide heritage fat boy:
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/dc/Sith_Speeder_Tatooine.png/revision/latest?cb=20130620093955)
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:rotflmao:
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The C14 engine is not "de" tuned, it is tuned differently.... precisely as they wanted and intended for sports touring (reliability, comfort, noise, efficiency, refinement). It is unlikely they would leave it exactly like in the ZX14 (power trumps everything) without "re" tuning it in some ways.
I would be surprised if a new generation C14 came out that was built on this same block, though (since they changed it for the ZX14). It has to increase the complexity, expense, space, etc, to have to maintain the inventory and production capacity for two instead of just one. The more interchangeability they have, the better their bottom line.
De Tuned, De nutted,Re tuned or precisely calibrated for its intended purpose call it what you want. But one ride on this bike when I purchased it left me feeling like this thing is a dog compared to the ZX14 I rode a few days before. Still waiting for a new more powerful motor before I buy another Concours. Had my c10 for 6 Years waiting and was excited after riding the Zx only to be disappointed in the performance of the Concours. Detuned I say.
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De Tuned, De nutted,Re tuned or precisely calibrated for its intended purpose call it what you want. But one ride on this bike when I purchased it left me feeling like this thing is a dog compared to the ZX14 I rode a few days before. Still waiting for a new more powerful motor before I buy another Concours. Had my c10 for 6 Years waiting and was excited after riding the Zx only to be disappointed in the performance of the Concours. Detuned I say.
forget it, he just doesn't get it. He never rode a ZX14R, and didn't even drove the C14 hard. All that nonsense about reliability, noise, etc. is not only not missing in the ZX, but abundant. The C14's engine has been detuned for market segmentation, nothing else. Throwing big words like complexity, expense, space and the never missing "etc." is for free. VVT is not, and it's there ::)
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forget it, he just doesn't get it.
You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am, but personal attacks are never needed.
He never rode a ZX14R, and didn't even drove the C14 hard.
Awfully presumptuous, aren't you. How exactly do you know how I ride the C14?
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You are mixing up opinions with facts. Big issue these days everywhere.
No personal attacks whatsoever. Simple observation power from multiple posts in which people told you how and why it is detuned, then you repeat the same "explanation" over and over. You love telling everybody about the search function; use it.
How you drive your bike is awfully (word of the day) clear to those who want to hear read it, since you explained it more than once. Again, the search function is your friend.
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You are mixing up opinions with facts. Big issue these days everywhere.
Yes, I can see
No personal attacks whatsoever.
Seemed that way to me. You weren't just arguing points, you were trying to debase me. Primarily by implying that I couldn't possibly know anything about the topic because "I don't drive hard." That is a personal attack.
Simple observation power from multiple posts in which people told you how and why it is detuned, then you repeat the same "explanation" over and over.
And some people love to say it is "detuned" and repeat their same "explanation" over and over.
How you drive your bike is awfully (word of the day) clear to those who want to hear read it, since you explained it more than once. Again, the search function is your friend.
Examples please. Yesterday I went from a turn onto a road and rapid-shifted at near full-throttle to 120MPH. Or are you basing on my having said that I rarely do that...which is true. But doesn't mean I don't drive "hard". I often accelerate very hard and at high RPM, but stop before going insanely fast (for reasons of road situation, safety, not wanting tickets).
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A part number comparison between a zx and a c14 of the same year would put this argument to rest if anybody cared enough to do it. Block, head, pistons, rods, cams etc. Everything should interchange so you could uptune the c14. What has been detuned can be retuned, right? :deadhorse:
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A part number comparison between a zx and a c14 of the same year would put this argument to rest if anybody cared enough to do it. Block, head, pistons, rods, cams etc. Everything should interchange so you could uptune the c14. What has been detuned can be retuned, right? :deadhorse:
Or that one that is tuned in one way can be tuned in another.
The only thing really at question is the purpose. One might believe that all those changes held only one purpose- to lower power with no other benefit, save presumably to prevent the C14 from eating into ZX14 sales (while noting that the C14 sells at a higher price must somehow not matter) or perhaps it's glory. A marketing decision. Or one might believe that the designers traded some benefits for others. Lastly, one might believe it to be somewhere in the middle. There is logic enough for some to believe the latter and cynicism enough for some to believe the former, although with no evidence supporting it and without face validity (at least to me).
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Domald Trump wouild probably claim it was "fake tuned" ;D
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One, I strive for this to be a pleasant place to be (probably one of the few I've seen where we're pretty much nice to each other). I will not tolerate the kind of responses I've seen in the latter part of this thread. >:(
Two, any mentioning of politics in the C14 threads won't be tolerated at all. >:(
Posting rules http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=436.msg3800#msg3800 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=436.msg3800#msg3800)