Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: dude412 on February 19, 2017, 03:12:19 PM
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I just got the evo flash and had the original. My brother has the decel flash. I was explaining my experience with the original and then the evo. I can't explain to him about difference evo to decel. Can somebody help me out? I definitely like the evo!
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$75.00
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Sorry..the devil made me do it.
Here's a cut 'n' paste answer to last you until you get one you like.
THE ENHANCED DECEL BRAKING FLASH this flash is for bikes with stock or slip on exhausts. This flash is the response to riders who have the original flash, and wanted more decel braking. This flash allows the rider to use the throttle more to control the vehicle speed while decelerating rather than brakes. This flash is very smooth on and off throttle, has all the power and economy of the original flash, but gives what I consider to me "more appropriate" throttle control to the rider. If you are a sporty / aggressive rider, or if ride in mountains, twisties, track days or even commuting where you need the throttle / gears to slow you rather than using brakes, this flash is for you. 325.00, including shipping and insurance in the US
THE EVOLUTION FLASH - all new for 2017 for stock or slipon exhausts, the flash is simply the smoothest, most refined tuning for the c-14 available anywhere. I almost named this "the gentleman" because of it's level of refinement, but In retrospect it occurred to me that this was the evolution of working on this c-14 tuning project for over 1.5 years, and developing over 100 different flashes along the way. Yes, each of those has been loaded into my own bike and tested. The Evolution Flash has incredibly finite throttle control, particularly from off throttle to applying precise throttle in the twisties, traffic, low speed maneuvering, etc. The Decel feature is present, though somewhat muted from the Decel flash. Power and fuel economy are maximized in the Evolution Flash, in fact the Evolution has the highest power output of the stock exhaust (slipons included) flashes, having gained over 4# TQ at low rpms over the previous flashes and a couple HP up high. But manners and predictability to throttle input is where the Evolution Flash really shines. This IS the pinnacle of c-14 tuning, and likely is the final word on what can be done to improve rideability of the concours c-14. Special introductory / limited time price of 375.00, including shipping and insurance in the US. For comparison, there is a dyno comparison of the decel flash Vs the evolution flash below, as DECELVEVO . The run with the decel flash was done with a stock muffler, the evolution run was done with an area p slipon. After other dyno runs, I can relate that the slipon won't change the low rpm power, but will add appx 3 hp on top with a proper tune. the added low rm power is from changes in the evolution tune.
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Sorry..the devil made me do it.
Here's a cut 'n' paste answer to last you until you get one you like.
Not a problem. Thanks.
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Since I built it, I think I'm the only resource to really answer the question... But I prefer to know exactly what it is you want to know about. In other words define your question more. there are big differences in the way the original, the decel, and the evolution flash respond while riding. Give me a riding scenario that I can compare the 2 flashes to. Steve
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Since I built it, I think I'm the only resource to really answer the question... But I prefer to know exactly what it is you want to know about. In other words define your question more. there are big differences in the way the original, the decel, and the evolution flash respond while riding. Give me a riding scenario that I can compare the 2 flashes to. Steve
Steve your exactly right. All I can say is I wanted the smoothness, economy and power and easier to ride and got it with the evo flash. He likes to go fast and hard. He's thinking the decel flash, which he has, suits him better. I just try to stay between the lines so I'm just going to leave it at that. We're both happy!
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well this isn't saying much as I learned to ride in Fl, the land of 11 curves in 318 miles, but I'm faster with the evo because it's smoother, and I can select exactly the right amount of throttle while in curves. It really is dependent on riding style; the EVO flash has already been widely accepted by those upgrading, but I did have one fellow say if he was really getting after it in the mountains, he'd prefer the decel flash. I can see that. Steve
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All other things equal , 2 bikes with the 2 flashes. Leaving a light side by side and both put the hammer down in second which one buys? :-)
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All other things equal , 2 bikes with the 2 flashes. Leaving a light side by side and both put the hammer down in second which one buys? :-)
The Evolution is the stronger flash. Steve
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Thanks. I think North Dakota has 2 less corners than Florida.
Wayne
The Evolution is the stronger flash. Steve
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All other things equal , 2 bikes with the 2 flashes. Leaving a light side by side and both put the hammer down in second which one buys? :-)
Everyone likes dyno charts. Here you go, decel (red) vs evolution flash (blue) . Steve
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Everyone likes dyno charts. Here you go, decel (red) vs evolution flash (blue) . Steve
That would be nice with a stock line on it as well ;)
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Everyone likes dyno charts. Here you go, decel (red) vs evolution flash (blue) . Steve
That is a HUGE difference at 2.8K, like 30ft-lbs/32 hp, can that be correct or is that some type of test anomaly at low RPM?
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That is a HUGE difference at 2.8K, like 30ft-lbs/32 hp, can that be correct or is that some type of test anomaly at low RPM?
you have to ignore the steep climb in the beginning because starting at lower rpm lets the power build sooner. Basically, just look at the area where they lines are parralleing each other, and compare the differences there. It's about 4# TQ which at that rpm is a LOT. Steve
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It feels like Christmas as I wait for the EVO to come back to me from vacation! Steve may have it today or tomorrow. Can't wait to start the riding season! Two of my sons have been riding this week with a warm break in the weather..
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I think mine has the decel version on it.... Got 51 mpg today indicated and still had fun on it. I haven't seen that kind of mpg in a long time. Those flashes are the best thing since sliced bread.
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Is it possible to put one flash in the normal slot, then another flash in the "ECO" slot? Or is that "Not how any of this works..."?
Flip in SC
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Is it possible to put one flash in the normal slot, then another flash in the "ECO" slot? Or is that "Not how any of this works..."?
That is exactly how it works on the 2nd Gen Concours since it can hold two maps and switch between them. The FEAM map is left in-tact as a fall-back or comparison. I have not heard of replacing the FEAM map with something else (I suppose it is possible, however).
The 1st Gen (2008-2009) can only hold one map since it doesn't have a FEAM.
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Seems the best of both worlds might be Decel in the "Eco" slot and EVO in the standard slot. This way if you want the decel features when hammering it in the mountains, it's as simple as holding a button for a moment.
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Seems the best of both worlds might be Decel in the "Eco" slot and EVO in the standard slot. This way if you want the decel features when hammering it in the mountains, it's as simple as holding a button for a moment.
That does sound interesting. Let's wait to see what Steve says. I am curious if anyone has overwritten the FEAM slot before. Another idea would be to write the stock/normal mode into the FEAM slot so there is a true before/after option.... although I like your idea better.
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I don't have all the tools I would need for the ECO side of the ecu. Sorry - steve
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I have the original flash. At first I thought I should upgrade to the Decel flash but once I got accustomed to the original I didn't feel the need for additional decal. I missed all the info about the EVO flash but it looks to be better than the original. How much does it cost to upgrade from mine to the EVO?
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I have the original flash. At first I thought I should upgrade to the Decel flash but once I got accustomed to the original I didn't feel the need for additional decal. I missed all the info about the EVO flash but it looks to be better than the original. How much does it cost to upgrade from mine to the EVO?
$75
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/concours1400
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Just got my EVO flash back yesterday but only had a short ride around town because of salt still on the roads in NY.. From just a short ride I could feel her wind up easier starting from a lower RPM. I just cant wait for the roads to clear and finally start riding. then I can report a better review but from what I feel am impressed. I am the original owner of a 2015 and think I got it set up for good now.. unless I go with a full Area P down the road ::)
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That is exactly how it works on the 2nd Gen Concours since it can hold two maps and switch between them. The FEAM map is left in-tact as a fall-back or comparison. I have not heard of replacing the FEAM map with something else (I suppose it is possible, however).
The 1st Gen (2008-2009) can only hold one map since it doesn't have a FEAM.
I guess the only option for a Gen 1 would be a PCV with a map switch and have a touring/eco map plus a power map
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I guess the only option for a Gen 1 would be a PCV with a map switch and have a touring/eco map plus a power map
That doesn't make much sense to me. For one, a pcv cannot begin to cover the tuning ground a flash can, and second, have you seen the mileage reports from my flashes? Everyone I know of,or from reports I read, get cruising mileage comparable to the ECO map. so there's no real benefit to even having the 2 different maps. Steve
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That doesn't make much sense to me. For one, a pcv cannot begin to cover the tuning ground a flash can, and second, have you seen the mileage reports from my flashes? Everyone I know of,or from reports I read, get cruising mileage comparable to the ECO map. so there's no real benefit to even having the 2 different maps. Steve
Not knocking what you've done Steve but apart from anything else I'm the opposite side of the Pond from you ;)
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Not knocking what you've done Steve but apart from anything else I'm the opposite side of the Pond from you ;)
Well, I wouldn't go spending money on a pcv in order to try to build an economy map. it's not going to work. There are a couple different fuel control methods employed on the bike, and the TPS control (what the pcv alters) is not going to be useful in extracting mileage. in fact I expect all it will extract is flat spots and hesitations. Not knocking the power commanders, but they are really meant for correcting WOT fueling on bikes with modifications. Steve
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We've also had several incidents where some PCV connections have gone casters up and took the bike with it.
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so how do I o about getting one this side of the pond :)
(Ok I know a few places that will dyno and setup but if there's a prewritten one based on experience then thats preferable)
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so how do I o about getting one this side of the pond :)
Take off the seat, pop out the ECU, pack it up, mail it to Steve (insured and such), pay money and wait! The bad part is I expect the round trip shipping is going to be relatively slow for the "cheaper" ways to mail across the Atlantic.... But it is nothing that air shipping and more $ can't fix.
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Take off the seat, pop out the ECU, pack it up, mail it to Steve (insured and such), pay money and wait! The bad part is I expect the round trip shipping is going to be relatively slow for the "cheaper" ways to mail across the Atlantic.... But it is nothing that air shipping and more $ can't fix.
yup and thats the big problem, time :)
My bike is my primary means of transport, haven't owned a car for over 15 years.
(and I'm guessing , understandably for any number of reasons, that Steve wouldn't be in a position to "share" his settings files electronically ;) )
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yup and thats the big problem, time :) My bike is my primary means of transport, haven't owned a car for over 15 years.
Yeah, the ECU flash option might not be right for you, unless you can borrow or rent other transportation for a while. You can't just use an "extra" ECU either, because it is mated to your sensors and keys and such.
(and I'm guessing , understandably for any number of reasons, that Steve wouldn't be in a position to "share" his settings files electronically ;) )
No guessing needed.... that isn't going to happen.
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so how do I o about getting one this side of the pond :)
(Ok I know a few places that will dyno and setup but if there's a prewritten one based on experience then thats preferable)
I thought that there was someone in the UK doing that..
Read through this thread... http://www.gtr1400.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=447.msg4466#msg4466 (http://www.gtr1400.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=447.msg4466#msg4466)
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Just got my EVO flash back yesterday but only had a short ride around town because of salt still on the roads in NY.. From just a short ride I could feel her wind up easier starting from a lower RPM. I just cant wait for the roads to clear and finally start riding. then I can report a better review but from what I feel am impressed. I am the original owner of a 2015 and think I got it set up for good now.. unless I go with a full Area P down the road ::)
What did you have before the EVO? Bone stock, original SISF or Decel flash?
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I am the 'baby brother' of the OP. I had bone stock when new, had the Guhl and liked it for the low end torque add, then got the decel and I made a mistake. I put on a slipon at the same time as the decel flash. The slipon makes no difference in power, but it did make a big difference in perceived weight and sound. It wasn't a very good experiment, changing 2 things at once but I loved the difference between Guhl flash with stock pipe and decel flash with a WAAAAY lighter, better sounding and and better looking Delkovec slip on.
I will probably just spend the $75 because it picks up some on the low end, which is really nice. Mine gets ridden a lot and sees redline fairly regularly. I put 19k on this bike last year and 1k on a Speed Triple and the Speed Triple is a very fun bike. It was down a fair amount for suspension work and also a couple other things. The C14 is just so easy to ride and practical with the bags.
Steve will be getting (more of) my money soon.
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I thought that there was someone in the UK doing that..
Read through this thread... http://www.gtr1400.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=447.msg4466#msg4466 (http://www.gtr1400.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=447.msg4466#msg4466)
Oh I know there's people like Hilltop over Leicester way and Rea Racing closer to home in Whalley Bridge (plus no end of other places) but what there doesn't seem to be is a "documented" flash such as the one Steve produces.
Will probably take a trundle up to Rea at some point, no rush :)
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What did you have before the EVO? Bone stock, original SISF or Decel flash?
Forgot to mention that I went from stock to the evo on a 2015 purchase new as a leftover last spring and put on the 18" Delkevic. Once the roads clear of salt I will ride every day to work and play on the weekends. I am somewhat aggressive and redline just because.. this bike serves me well and I replace the rack in back that came with a back rest for my wife from Pirates Lair..