Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: O.C. on May 23, 2016, 06:21:46 AM
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The later addition to the Roadsmart Range
I have just read a report in Motorcycle Sport & Leisure and it seems that the Dunlop RS3 could well be the tyre of choice over Angel Gts and PR4s, improved longevity better grip in both wet and dry
Is anyone using them on their GTR/Connie yet ?
http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.eu/dunlop_euen/mc/tyres/on_road/RoadSmart_III.jsp (http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.eu/dunlop_euen/mc/tyres/on_road/RoadSmart_III.jsp)
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/march/dunlop-roadsmart-iii/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/march/dunlop-roadsmart-iii/)
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If yer offering to buy us a set OC ? :chugbeer:
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I always used Dunflops on my Harley and they worked just fine. 8)
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But has anyone used them on the C14?
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Wait, you're saying C14's and Harleys are different?
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I'm curious how these do against the PR4
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If yer offering to buy us a set OC ? :chugbeer:
They might be too good for an old BMW Charlie :rotflmao:
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I'm curious how these do against the PR4
I would be as well. I can't find them for sale over here..
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They might be too good for an old BMW Charlie :rotflmao:
Now this is going to get bitch slappingly dirty OC :deadhorse: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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But has anyone used them on the C14?
Nope :rotflmao:
Has that OC pulled a fast one guys :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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Can't imagine them having better grip AND longer life than the PR4 ......
I love my set of PR4s so if anyone had the PR4s and tries these RS3s and says they're better I am almost going to call it mandatory for me to try them next 8)
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Can't imagine them having better grip AND longer life than the PR4 ......
I love my set of PR4s so if anyone had the PR4s and tries these RS3s and says they're better I am almost going to call it mandatory for me to try them next 8)
Rather the devil you know I say..... I'll be sticking to the PR's.
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Rather the devil you know I say..... I'll be sticking to the PR's.
Good point and that has been my philosophy over the years, but as things progress and products improve its no bad thing to look into new products
I had PR3s on a previous 2011 GTR and they performed well, but did suffer a puncture (I'm not going to go down that route now ;)) and I believe that the PR4 is even better than the PR3 which would have made it my first choice for a replacement when I'm due new tyres, but since the release of Dunlop's RS3 I'm wondering if there's a new/better kid on the block
Just a thought :)
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I would be as well. I can't find them for sale over here..
I'm having trouble finding them here as well. It looks like there are "fresh off the press". That could be promising since the PR4s are a few years old and tech has advanced since then. I will be looking at these and the PR4s when it comes time for me to change.
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I haven't found a Dunlop of any variety that can compare to a Micheli .
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I haven't found a Dunlop of any variety that can compare to a Micheli .
Or one that can compare to a Michelin :)
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Or one that can compare to a Michelin :)
Or them either...
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Or one that can compare to a Michelin :)
On 2nd thought that's a good point....I'll stick with the latest PR version when the time comes 8)
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On 2nd thought that's a good point....I'll stick with the latest PR version when the time comes 8)
Just remember it is now "PR4" AND "PR4-GT". Two different tires but in the same family. The GT variant has stronger sidewalls and higher load capacity, and it is what is "recommended" for our model (although both will certainly work).
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::) I thought the pr3 was just fine.
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Just remember it is now "PR4" AND "PR4-GT". Two different tires but in the same family. The GT variant has stronger sidewalls and higher load capacity, and it is what is "recommended" for our model (although both will certainly work).
Why do you say the GT has a higher load capacity when the literature states they both have the same Load Index? 73 for the 190/50, and 75 for the 190/55.
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Just remember it is now "PR4" AND "PR4-GT". Two different tires but in the same family. The GT variant has stronger sidewalls and higher load capacity, and it is what is "recommended" for our model (although both will certainly work).
Didn't know that thanks for the heads up. I am going to check to see which ones I'm running currently, I'm super happy with them and that is rare for me.
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Why do you say the GT has a higher load capacity when the literature states they both have the same Load Index? 73 for the 190/50, and 75 for the 190/55.
Hmm, I think I am remembering incorrectly, then. (Plus there are three versions- PR4, PR4-GT, and PR4-Trail). Regardless of the load rating, the reason for the stiffer sidewalls is all about weight.
"The Pilot Road 4 GT tires are for heavier, touring bikes and has a stiffer casing with a patented new technology for motorcycle tires that delivers the stability you need for heavier GT-class bikes while riding solo, two-up or with luggage, and the comfort you desire. The Pilot Road 4 GT tires are already the OEM choice for the new BMW R1200RT."
The Concours 1400 (670lb wet with bags) is a lot heavier than the R1200RT (570lb wet but WITHOUT bags). Based on previous reviews and threads, I am positive the non-GT will work on the Concours, but the GT was specifically designed for heavier bikes like ours. To me, the choice is clear.
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And to me as well..
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I bought my bike with the normal PR4's about 3 months ago, and there has not been any problems with them. I've done about 3500 miles with them, and they still seem good. Pointless spending R 3200.00 (About $210) on replacing tyres that are brand new, just because it is not the GT version.
Come October, I'll be replacing them with PR4 GT's. I intend on doing a lot of riding the next 5x months... ;) ;D The current fitted tyres should be tired by then...
Previous bikes I had ran as follows:
BMW K1200GT - PR4 GT's
KAW ZX14 - PR4 - Normal
KAW ZX12 - PR3 - Normal
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I bought my bike with the normal PR4's about 3 months ago, and there has not been any problems with them. I've done about 3500 miles with them, and they still seem good. Pointless spending R 3200.00 (About $210) on replacing tyres that are brand new, just because it is not the GT version.
Come October, I'll be replacing them with PR4 GT's. I intend on doing a lot of riding the next 5x months... ;) ;D The current fitted tyres should be tired by then...
Cool, you will be able to offer a good comparison of the two on our bike.
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Cool, you will be able to offer a good comparison of the two on our bike.
:thumbs: :thumbs: :chugbeer:
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The later addition to the Roadsmart Range
I have just read a report in Motorcycle Sport & Leisure and it seems that the Dunlop RS3 could well be the tyre of choice over Angel Gts and PR4s, improved longevity better grip in both wet and dry
Is anyone using them on their GTR/Connie yet ?
I guess it's all academic until they start to offer them here in the U.S. (I can't find any online.)
Awaiting comparison reports here for mileage (I'll convert the Kilometers to miles if need be) and traction wet and dry from our GTR friends across the pond.
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I guess it's all academic until they start to offer them here in the U.S. (I can't find any online.)
Awaiting comparison reports here for mileage (I'll convert the Kilometers to miles if need be) and traction wet and dry from our GTR friends across the pond.
That might take a while though. Kwakrider and I both believe in, and will only use PR's. I'll be able to give you a review in a few months time on the differences between the PR4 and the PR4GT on the same bike.
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As my brother Hooligan said, I've been using the PR3's for years, and now the PR4's. Great tires, they inspire confidence in the corners and give decent mileage even if you ride rather aggressively at times...used them on the ZX10R, ZZR, ZX12R and now the GTR. Finding a better wet weather tire will be extremely hard IMO. I haven't used the normal PR4 yet, I fitted the PR4-GT from the onset when they came out this side, so can't comment on the difference between the PR4/PR4-GT as yet. I have noticed that without a passenger, saddle bags and topbox, in other words without any load, the GT's gives a slightly harder ride over the bumpy stuff. It's minimal, but I can feel it, Ive had the GTR for years now, so I know the bike...loaded up the "harshness" is gone. Like I said, it really is minimal...just 2 clicks on the suspension settings sorts it out for solo riding! Next set will be the "normal" PR4's, will give feedback after I swop out the GT's. Safe riding all!! :)
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The GT was specifically designed for heavier bikes like ours.
You forgot to add: when ridden fully-loaded most of the time ;). So the choice is not that clear. He he. The GT is harder to install (wheel damage), rides harder, is more expensive, and offers no advantage if you mostly ride solo, like many of us. Plus the load rating of the regular PR4 is plenty even if you ride loaded. I'd only consider it if I rode a considerable amount of time with a passenger, and fast. But always solo, no need for a GT at all IMO, but to each his own. Remember both tire and bike manufacturer assume sport-touring bikes (especially the RT) always ride 2-up. By the way, my '14 RT came with regular tires, and nothing has changed.
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Good points there.
The OEM tyres aren't nearly as good/ high specification as the replacements available in the marketplace :)
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You forgot to add: when ridden fully-loaded most of the time ;).
I forgot no such thing. In my example, the Concours, with 1 rider, weighs almost as much as the target bike with two riders. I have never ridden in any other way than solo and that is the way it always will be for me.
So the choice is not that clear.
It seems pretty clear to me, anyway. But each person will have to decide for himself.
GT is harder to install (wheel damage),
My dealer didn't complain or cause any damage
rides harder,
I have not noticed it much harder than the OEM tire it replaced.
is more expensive, and offers no advantage if you mostly ride solo, like many of us.
It is slightly more expensive, yes. And the advantage is that it should handle better and wear better, solo included. So if the theory of its operation holds, the slightly higher expense will be way more than worth it.
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So if the theory of its operation holds
The only theory here is if you're within the tire's load rating capacity, you're fine. And a solo rider even with luggage, is WELL WITHIN those limits, so no worries. By the way, the new RT is only around 70 lbs heavier than our bikes (616 vs 688), and NOBODY weighs that much. On the contrary: Have you seen the size of most touring riders/passengers? In fact, THAT is the whole reason of coming up with such tire: most touring folks EXCEEDED the GVWR of their bikes, and in order to sell more bikes, bike manufacturers needed such a tire to increase it. And that's exactly what happened. I used to own a 2014 RT, and coincidentally, it's exactly the same bike, but now magically has a cargo capacity of over 100 lbs more, all thanks to the beefier tire. Make your own conclusions ;). And finally, you don't want a brick of a tire if pushing the bike in the twisties, so for me, I wouldn't put a GT even if it lasted 10 times longer. I'm WELL WITHIN the load rating of my tires. In fact, even with my 125-lb wife (and my 165) and luggage, I'd be well within them. So I suggest folks who ride mostly solo and like to push their bikes, do a bit of homework and run some numbers, rather than just believing the marketing ;).
Basically the same crap with runflat tires. Most folks think they're safer, but they're ruined after 10 miles (even before on heavier cars), nobody patches them, and actually collapse from 25 to 50 miles (depending on car's weight). PLUS you need special equipment to remove them, not available in most towns. AND nobody carries them. So are they really safer than regular tires? Only if you work in the Bronx on the graveyard shift ::). But if you just listen to the marketing, you'd be in for a big surprise if travelling on an empty road (that's why I also always carry a flat repair kit in my cars, and fix a flat right away before tire is ruined, runflat or not). Always better to know all the facts, and then make a sound decision. There's no right and wrong; just what's the best compromise for YOU 8). Signing off this thread.
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By the way, the new RT is only around 70 lbs heavier than our bikes (616 vs 688),......
Huh?
Signing off this thread.
OK, bye now.
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finally, you don't want a brick of a tire if pushing the bike in the twisties, so for me, I wouldn't put a GT even if it lasted 10 times longer.
Unless my understanding is incorrect, the GT and non-GT PR4 have the same [dual] tread compounds and same stickiness, it is just the sidewall that is stronger in the GT... allowing it to better keep its shape in heavier conditions, providing correct tread wear and better handling. Unfortunately, it is difficult to get straight and clear details about the tire models (I spent a few hours and didn't get what I wanted).
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The GT is harder to install (wheel damage)
Where do you come up with this, speculation? I change my tires myself in my garage, and I think it was pretty darn easy.
And finally, you don't want a brick of a tire if pushing the bike in the twisties, so for me, I wouldn't put a GT even if it lasted 10 times longer.
Brick of a tire, more speculation on your part.! I am on my 3 set of PR4GT and I find them to be an amazing tire. Go ahead and load up you bike with your wife on a different tire. But then again, you probably only ride up to the supermarket for a gallon of milk, and dont use the bike as it is designed for... A mile eating machine!!
I consider myself a valuable asset and will do my best to put the best rubber underneath myself to help any chances of failure.
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It was easy for me as well. Remove wheel. Take to tire guy. Install wheel. Best $20 I ever spent.
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It was easy for me as well. Remove wheel. Take to tire guy. Install wheel. Best $20 I ever spent.
Even easier for me..... Take the bike to tyre dealer. They strip off wheels, fit new tyres, balance and refit wheels for free if you buy from them.
And yes, the next set will be PR4GT's. I ride with the Mrs on the back, loaded panniers and top box to boot.
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I had a friend say he had run PR4's before and had changed them, he has a tire stand. Couldn't mount a Pirelli Angel GT A spec. He is not terribly experienced. He ended up taking it to the dealer.
My Multistrada friend has a tire stand, I will remove the wheels Thursday night and go there Friday night and mount Angel GTs, A spec on the rear. We always do them together. I will pay attention and ask him if they seem more difficult, he has changed a million tires, he used to be an HD mechanic and has changed many tires of his own and probably 20 or more with me.
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I think people put more effort into changing the tires than thought. It is more about techniques than machine, tire, or braun. I can and do change my own tires on a "inferior" HF tire machine alone, and I do it without breaking a nail, or even chipping my nail polish.
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I think people put more effort into changing the tires than thought. It is more about techniques than machine, tire, or braun. I can and do change my own tires on a "inferior" HF tire machine alone, and I do it without breaking a nail, or even chipping my nail polish.
One must be smarter than the tire they are trying to mount. You obviously are. Others obviously are not.
And the comment concerning technique can certainly be applied to se veral other aspects of life I can think of. Just sayin'.....
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I think people put more effort into changing the tires than thought. It is more about techniques than machine, tire, or braun. I can and do change my own tires on a "inferior" HF tire machine alone, and I do it without breaking a nail, or even chipping my nail polish.
Too bad you don't live closer. I tried it once and for $20 it isn't worth the aggravation.
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I think people put more effort into changing the tires than thought. It is more about techniques than machine, tire, or braun. I can and do change my own tires on a "inferior" HF tire machine alone, and I do it without breaking a nail, or even chipping my nail polish.
One must be smarter than the tire they are trying to mount. You obviously are. Others obviously are not.
I too have not had trouble using the HF changer (MoJo adapted) with the GT tires. Yet there are some who have much more experience and knowledge with bikes than I, that are having problems. I've been trying to determine why that is, and I can only agree that it's "technique" and that a simple change for them would give them an "aha!" moment. I'll try to show how my "aha!" came about and maybe it will help. Hopefully it won't muddy the waters.
(sort of a disclaimer section here)
First, the tire bead closest to me is always down in the center of the wheel and I usually have a piece of wood on top of the tire and below the rim to help keep it there. Some are just able to push down on that portion of the tire with their hand to avoid using the wood. (If I were taller, or if the HF changer were shorter, I could probably do that as well and avoid using the wood.) This has been posted and repeated by many so I'm sure that those having trouble already know to do this, but I had to add that here. I also use RuGLYDE in a spray bottle. I have not yet had to heat or set the tires in the sun to soften them up, but I'm in Texas so I haven't changed them yet when my garage was below 55 degrees. I'll also add (I know you already know this) to put a ratchet strap around a wheel spoke and the changer so the wheel doesn't spin in the MoJo blocks as you apply torque to it. My description below refers to the mounting of the second bead of the tire as I'm assuming that nobody is having trouble getting the first bead on (?). (end of sort of a disclaimer section)
In the diagram below I originally assumed that the end of the MoJo lever went at point W (W for Wrong) and was supposed to clip under the rim and force the tire bead down as I moved my end of the bar to the left against the center rod thus moving the clip end to the right. The rim lip, or clip as I call it, of the lever would slip out and I would have to keep moving my end of the Mojo lever higher and higher to keep it in place. I finally got the rear tire (PR3 IIRC) on using that technique but I was already sore when I started to work on the the front tire which I thought would be easier. Wrong, it seemed I might pull the changer out of the floor. I had the bar high at my end and had both arms on the lever trying to move it to the left and there were muscles and tendons screaming at me, my brain was also pretty insistent that if something broke or slipped I was going to go flying and be seriously injured. That front tire just would not go on. With my sweat dripping on the garage floor, I went inside frustrated and exhausted to cool off in the AC. With a glass of lemonade and a couple of Ibuprofen, sat down and watched some tire changing videos on YouTube. One of the videos had a link to this pdf (http://www.mojotiretools.com/Mojolever_Instructions.pdf) of Preston Drake's instructions so I reread them and then my "aha!" moment occurred when I got to page 6, last sentence of instruction 6, and saw the top photo on the page. (I'll insert my own RTFM (http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/199.gif) right here to save others the trouble) I went back out to the garage and moved the lever end to the correct position (marked as C in the crude sketch below) and the tire slipped right on. I had a firm grasp of the lever but I think I could have done it with a couple of fingers. I stood there in disbelief and in awe of my earlier idiocy. The purpose of the tip of the MoJo lever is not to force the tire bead down, but rather force it out just past the edge of the rim so it can drop down below the rim on it's own as the tip of the bar is moved out of the way. Once I understood that, it all flowed "like Buttah". I have not had any trouble mounting any tire including PR4 GTs since that day. I still don't know how I mounted the rear PR3 that day using the wrong technique. I doubt I could do it again.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZTV58fF/0/M/i-ZTV58fF-M.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZTV58fF/0/X3/i-ZTV58fF-X3.jpg)
I hope this helped someone. If not then all I can say is, if you already know all about it and are still having problems, then go back and RTFM until you do actually know all about it.
Just don't tell anybody all about it, like I just did. :-[
Returning to the original topic :yikes:, anyway that is how I'm going to mount my Dunlop RoadSmart 3s if they ever come to this country and aren't costlier than PR4GTs. :)
(edit: Just one more thing, lemonade and Ibuprofin are not a good combination, especially on an empty stomach. But then you knew that. )
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One must be smarter than the tire they are trying to mount.
Hmm, we could make a game show out of that. "Are you smarter than a fifth-grader tire?"
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Where do you come up with this, speculation? I change my tires myself in my garage, and I think it was pretty darn easy.
Brick of a tire, more speculation on your part.! I am on my 3 set of PR4GT and I find them to be an amazing tire. Go ahead and load up you bike with your wife on a different tire. But then again, you probably only ride up to the supermarket for a gallon of milk, and dont use the bike as it is designed for... A mile eating machine!!
I consider myself a valuable asset and will do my best to put the best rubber underneath myself to help any chances of failure.
shhsssshhhh nichole... you have actually worn out some tires on this bike, we know what you are saying....
the person you were engaging.... (I must be nice.....) is still "expurting you, trying to school ya so to speak....)
we know better. 8)
don't feed the fire girl. you got the creds, so let the sleeping dawg lay....
(my personal opinion is if you damaged the wheel, you have no clues as to how to change a tire... period....pay someone.)
to the person that dissd ya....
all I can say is...
don't tell us how the tire causes you to damage a wheel... that's ludicrous.
put some serious miles on the bike, and stop the condescending expurt tude... until you have done so.
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Rich, you are right and I know better. But every once in a while though, one just gets a thorn under the fingernail and has to speak out. I suppose this was one of the times.
I really do prefer when facts are stated and speculation is kept for the stock market.
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only speculation I do anymore is whether to zip my Stch up, or lave it pen, and do I pass this gas stop to get to the next one 20 miles before I figure I'll run out...... luckily I ain't run out of gas, but have driven thru a tornado, with my stich unzipped...nand flapping..m mmmmmmm hmmmmm..
and stopped for fuel, where some guy drove up and said "you are one caraaaazy mutha farker...I followed you for 12 miles... man, you got ballz..."
I looked at him and replied yaeh, maybe I do, I think I can taste them right now...
we got back on the road, I had momma with me, and we were pulling the h/f trailer.. drove anther 80 miles before we pulled off and said.... enough.
we were in marietta ohio finally, and watching the news while hanging crap up to dry, they showed 4 families had died in a flash flood, at the exit we stopped on the freeway, because we couldn't see the exit ramp....and endured 80 mph side winds... mother nature loves me. she has to. its a simple fact.
there is no such thing as luck..
KARMA.
ride on, good job.
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I really do prefer when facts are stated and speculation is kept for the stock market.
You again? Nothing better to do, I guess. Being able to do something others can't has nothing to do with 'facts'. Fact is a local shop (make it THREE) refusing to cover wheel damage with those harder (sidewall) tires because they're more difficult to mount/dismount without touching the wheels. Had enough of your crap, so ignored from now on. Have a good one.
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Man!!! This is getting interesting...... :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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Sigh.....do we really have to escalate this to management?
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Awww, I'm on the ignore list. My feeling is hurt now. Poor guy can't find a shop that will do work for him.
Elp_jc... I'll make you a deal. Let's take a poll on the forum here and see who the other members would prefer to go away, you or I. If it's me, all accept and go away, but you need to do the same. Agreed?
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Nicole should sell DVD's covering the proper way to change a tire without chipping your nail polish.
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Bill, I'm taking advanced orders now :)
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Back to Dunlops.. I don't think I've ever locked a tire thread before.
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Nicole should sell DVD's covering the proper way to change a tire without chipping your nail polish.
If I can change a GT tire on my HF next time as easily as she says I can, I will START wearing nail polish just to accomplish it.
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I think it's a bigger pain in the butt trying to balance them.
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I think it's a bigger pain in the butt trying to balance them.
That's just a patience thing. I've got all day and no life, so no biggie here. Plus, a Marc Parnes balancer is great. This latest set of Bridgestone T30 GTs I (ahem) had to get mounted at the tire shop- the guy mounted the rear with the yellow dot 90degrees from the stem. The front balanced with one 1/4oz weight in no time. The rear wouldn't balance no matter what I did- I had weights all over that rim just to see if I could do it. Made him rotate the tire to the right spot, then it balanced with a half ounce.
Next time, I will be more patient with my HF and DIY, but I had a trip the next day and got caught out.
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Back to Dunlops.. I don't think I've ever locked a tire thread before.
Okay. Looking at the tread design of the new Dunlops, it is eerily similar to the Bridgestone T30.
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Let me know how it goes with the HF. I have one but have yet to use it. Have a pair of Angle Gt's ready when needed. I still have the HF bar. Have you upgraded to the no-mar or some such wizardry?
Wayne
That's just a patience thing. I've got all day and no life, so no biggie here. Plus, a Marc Parnes balancer is great. This latest set of Bridgestone T30 GTs I (ahem) had to get mounted at the tire shop- the guy mounted the rear with the yellow dot 90degrees from the stem. The front balanced with one 1/4oz weight in no time. The rear wouldn't balance no matter what I did- I had weights all over that rim just to see if I could do it. Made him rotate the tire to the right spot, then it balanced with a half ounce.
Next time, I will be more patient with my HF and DIY, but I had a trip the next day and got caught out.
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I think it's a bigger pain in the butt trying to balance them.
+1 I spend more time balancing then installing.
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Let me know how it goes with the HF. I have one but have yet to use it. Have a pair of Angle Gt's ready when needed. I still have the HF bar. Have you upgraded to the no-mar or some such wizardry?
Wayne
Definitely upgrade to a MOJO bar and blocks. If you don't, you will definitely damage your wheel.