Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: PH14 on May 21, 2016, 09:41:49 PM
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I had planned on doing the valve check myself last month since I was going to have about a month free to get some things done. I had to move back to Branson in May and had my schedule clear for April. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, I got booked for there weeks on a ship starting April 22 and had about a week to pack and start moving to Branson before leaving for the ship.
I left the bike at a dealership that has a mechanic I trust so he could do the work while I was gone. I told them to replace the air filter, and plug, and sync the throttle bodies while he was in there, as well as do the state inspection. They quoted about $630 for that. I was fine with that. Then as I was leaving the bike, I figured I would have them replace the coolant, oil, since I ran out of time, and also replace the hydraulic fluid. Since they aren't a Kawasaki dealership, they said they may need to buy a manual. They used to own a Kawasaki dealership too and I didn't know they had sold it. They got a copy of the procedure for the valves so all was well.
Later they emailed and said they would need a manual for the throttle body sync. I bought a manual since I needed one anyway. During the three weeks I was on the ship, the service manager emailed me some pictures of Ken working on the bike. It was funny, but it was nice to have them update me.
I flew back to Pittsburgh Tuesday to pick it up. As I was talking to Ken, the mechanic, he said he removed my levers, cleaned the pivot points and lubricated them. I knew he would do that. He said he also adjusted the steering bearings while he had the bike. I raised the side stand and it flipped up quickly and I realized he had cleaned and lubed it too. I looked the bike over and saw he lubed every pivot on the bike. It feels like a new bike. His attention to detail is amazing.
Total price with all the gaskets, plugs, fluids, filter, PA state inspection and the shop manual which was $75, and every other odd part he decided to replace while he was there was $1380 after tax, I was happy with that.
I hated paying for them to do work I can do myself, but I just didn't have the time and once I got to Branson, I would have no garage to work in.
I packed the bike and left Pittsburgh around 2:30 PM and fought rush hour on my way out since I live in the Eastern suburbs, and rode straight through 920 miles and arrived here in Branson this morning. It was a nice ride, and the bike ran beautifully.
I'm happy to get all this done. The bike is a 2009 that I bough new in 2010. It had a little over 32,000 miles on it when he did the check. This was the first check. He didn't adjust any of them. He did give me a shim map.
I really figured I would have a lot more miles on this by now. The first two months I had it I had 8,000 miles on it, but then I began traveling too much and couldn't ride as much. Most of my riding is done in chunks like yesterday. It's good to have the bike back.
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Thanks for sharing the info. Another data point (and another example of valves NOT needing adjustment; not to say this is always the case, since it is not). I like the authentic grimy fingerprints :)
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Thanks for sharing the info. Another data point (and another example of valves NOT needing adjustment; not to say this is always the case, since it is not). I like the authentic grimy fingerprints :)
Yeah, Ken told me my manual had some greasy prints in it too. I told him that's the way it's supposed to be.
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Perhaps incorrect, but I assume you are a very easy rider. Some of your clearances indicate zero movement, maybe all of them. I have done close to a dozen valve adjustmets on c-14's to date, and I have NEVER seen clearances like yours. I just did one 2 weeks ago for a guy who is a very conservative rider, with 25k on the clock. All the clearances were at the minimum except for one, which was .002" under - and it was an intake, which was surprising. I removed the cams and brought them all to the outside spec. I'm not calling BS, but it seems whenever someone goes to a dealer all the valves were "in spec" but whenever they come to me, or a couple other guys I know, or the owners do them themselves, they aren't in spec, or at the bare bottom end of spec. Steve
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It does seem odd for them to be so near perfect. I will point out in his case it wasn't a dealer. We all hate this procedure, since it is time consuming, expensive, and the potential for it to be done incorrectly or just plain lied to by a mechanic is very high (because it can't be verified or seen). I know there are very few people I would trust- the one I do the most is my best friend who is a master mechanic. He never seems to have much time anymore, but I will ask to pay him through the shop he works at if necessary. It is a general car shop, but I don't know why they wouldn't.
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Perhaps incorrect, but I assume you are a very easy rider. Some of your clearances indicate zero movement, maybe all of them. I have done close to a dozen valve adjustmets on c-14's to date, and I have NEVER seen clearances like yours. I just did one 2 weeks ago for a guy who is a very conservative rider, with 25k on the clock. All the clearances were at the minimum except for one, which was .002" under - and it was an intake, which was surprising. I removed the cams and brought them all to the outside spec. I'm not calling BS, but it seems whenever someone goes to a dealer all the valves were "in spec" but whenever they come to me, or a couple other guys I know, or the owners do them themselves, they aren't in spec, or at the bare bottom end of spec. Steve
That is because they have triple plated titanium feeler gauges made by virginal muses from Mt. Olypus, and your rudimentary equipment just cannot compare! :P I'm not saying there aren't honest dealers out there, but in the last thirty years I have never had any luck with any dealer doing a bigger repair. It is to the point that I am willing to drive hundreds of miles to anyone that is proven good for a repair too big for me to handle.
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Perhaps incorrect, but I assume you are a very easy rider. Some of your clearances indicate zero movement, maybe all of them. I have done close to a dozen valve adjustmets on c-14's to date, and I have NEVER seen clearances like yours. I just did one 2 weeks ago for a guy who is a very conservative rider, with 25k on the clock. All the clearances were at the minimum except for one, which was .002" under - and it was an intake, which was surprising. I removed the cams and brought them all to the outside spec. I'm not calling BS, but it seems whenever someone goes to a dealer all the valves were "in spec" but whenever they come to me, or a couple other guys I know, or the owners do them themselves, they aren't in spec, or at the bare bottom end of spec. Steve
Steve, there are a lot of long highway trips on this bike. There are also a lot of hard twisty miles on it since I live in Western PA and ride there and in the hills of West Virginia as well. Half the year I live in Southern Missouri which also has nice twisty roads. But, the vast bulk of the miles are long trips. The mechanic in question is very good, is a 20 some year friend, and I know the bike was tore down and the valves checked. I saw the old gaskets that were removed and replaced. This wasn't a Kawasaki dealer, since I don't trust the one there to do the job. I do trust Ken, which is why I go to him. So this isn't your typical stealership.
No, I don't hammer the bike. But it slaps the redline often and did a few times on my ride to Branson the other night.
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Maybe you're just an....
http://youtu.be/UjlxqANj68U (http://youtu.be/UjlxqANj68U)
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Whoa, I think I just had a flashback.
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Maybe you're just an....
http://youtu.be/UjlxqANj68U (http://youtu.be/UjlxqANj68U)
;D
Yeah, highway miles has a lot to do with it.
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I must ride kinda like you, then....which isn't a bad thing in my estimation. I hardly ever rev it over 4k.
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I must ride kinda like you, then....which isn't a bad thing in my estimation. I hardly ever rev it over 4k.
I rev it over 4K all the time, just not when droning on the highway. Since the highways miles add up faster than the other miles though, the use on this engine is skewed towards that end.
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All this talk about "hammering it" is making me want to go out and ride some more. Is there any other way to ride this bike?
Wayne
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All this talk about "hammering it" is making me want to go out and ride some more. Is there any other way to ride this bike?
Wayne
It is perfectly fine to ride while hammering the bike, but don't ride the bike hammered. :thumbs:
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Perhaps incorrect, but I assume you are a very easy rider. Some of your clearances indicate zero movement, maybe all of them. I have done close to a dozen valve adjustmets on c-14's to date, and I have NEVER seen clearances like yours. I just did one 2 weeks ago for a guy who is a very conservative rider, with 25k on the clock. All the clearances were at the minimum except for one, which was .002" under - and it was an intake, which was surprising. I removed the cams and brought them all to the outside spec. I'm not calling BS, but it seems whenever someone goes to a dealer all the valves were "in spec" but whenever they come to me, or a couple other guys I know, or the owners do them themselves, they aren't in spec, or at the bare bottom end of spec. Steve
This too was my experience, I had to adjust every one of my valves at 27000. They were all on the short end (but w/i spec) with two being 1.5 - 2 thousandths below, both intake. I hope the tech did not adjust the number rather than the shims but either way at some point you will do it yourself and find out. I did not want to do the job but felt much better after I was done.
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Dang, those are some darn near perfect numbers. Almost too perfect. I'm not calling BS, but even after changing the shims, getting even numbers like that takes time. Surely those valves have been adjusted prior to this service.
I baby my C14 as well, and until recently (Shoodaben Flash), I hardly ever crossed 4k. Even with that, I still had to adjust valves in two out of three checks. My third (and final) valve check at 75k miles produced numbers that matched where I put them last time.
Like Steve (thanks again for the flash, Steve!!! ;D ) , I too see consistent results of 'good valves' when a dealer checks them, but lots of necessary adjustment when self-performed. PH14, your mechanic sounds like a good guy, and if that is truly the results he found in your engine, then you need to buy a lottery ticket. Those are the kind of numbers you find in a Honda or Yamaha engine, but not a Kawasaki. Those are two bike brands I've never had to adjust valves/shims in.
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And this is why I hesitated to post this. I know the mechanic well. I know he did the job, and he honestly wrote down the results. I'm sorry you all have not found someone you can trust, there are so many bad ones out there, I know. That is why I normally do all my own work. Unfortunately this time I couldn't due to time constraints. I've known Ken for 20 years. He is not at a Kawasaki dealership, but I go to him because he is good at what he does, and he does it right, or he would't touch my bike.
That's all I have to say about this.
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It is perfectly fine to ride while hammering the bike, but don't ride the bike hammered. :thumbs:
Or even buzzed.
WERD. 8)
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I rather enjoy buzzed. Buzzed now. Saki did it to me....
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I have done a dozen valve adjustments on C14's this year already and never once have I found any bike to not need the majority of the valves adjusted.
I will call bullshit on this, no matter if you knew this guy 20 years or not. No matter if you "trust" him or not. It simply is not my experience with dozens of C14's or thousands of any bike for that matter with shim under bucket.
Only the uneducated, misguided who want to believe in rainbows and unicorns would believe those numbers at 25k without ever being done before. The very first service is when they move the most...another data point, really............another falsehood misinformation of data is all this is
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WHOA! Them's fightin' words right there. Are you saying they rubber stamped the greasy fingerprints too? Good thing PH decided he had the last word earlier.
For my part, if I don't think I can DIY the valves with the service manual and Freds videos, I will take my bike to him or Steve for the job. I'm going to practice on my ZR7 first in the near future.
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:popcorn:
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...rainbows and unicorns
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:rotflmao:
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Yeah, this is a 'flak- catching' topic sometimes :-) I guess it falls into the category of "We all know....." [that mechanics do not perform this job correctly, if at all].
I checked my own valve lash and found it w/in tolerance at 25K miles though a couple were on the edge. When checked them again at 50K miles, I found one that had been on the edge (tight) actually loosened up by 0.0005" and was therefore closer to the middle of the tolerance band. I am sure I did it correctly and have valid data but certainly some will doubt my findings also- starting with Kirby! :o ;D
Brian
And this is why I hesitated to post this. I know the mechanic well. I know he did the job, and he honestly wrote down the results. I'm sorry you all have not found someone you can trust, there are so many bad ones out there, I know. That is why I normally do all my own work. Unfortunately this time I couldn't due to time constraints. I've known Ken for 20 years. He is not at a Kawasaki dealership, but I go to him because he is good at what he does, and he does it right, or he would't touch my bike.
That's all I have to say about this.
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I noticed an oil leak from my valve cover gasket at 95,000 miles. It was covered under warranty. While they were in there I suggested they check the valve clearances and replace the plugs, all for the very first time. I simply would not spend the money to get the valves checked every 15k or replace plugs at 7,500 as the manual requires. The mechanic was a former race car engine builder and I was told he was the right mechanic for the job. Needless to say I feared anyone taking my engine apart. He documented all the valves on paper and found all intake valves well in spec. Only one exhaust valve was out at .005. However, he decided after exhaust cam removal that adjusting all exhaust valves to center was easy enough to do. Seven out of eight exhaust valves and all intake valves were still in spec and this is after 95K. He also replace the plugs with ones I supplied even though the plugs removed were functioning and still usable.
Im not proposing anyone deviate from what they would consider to be necessary maintenance. Just sharing a documented and trustworthy job done by a competent mechanic on a high milage Concours. I bought the plugs online at 50k with the thought of replacing them myself. I have been wrenching my cars and motorcycles for the past 45 years but decided replacing plugs on this bike was way too much of a pain in the butt. Forget about doing a valve adjustment myself, I would not even attempt it. I still find it hard to comprehend going through the tedious and dangerous steps of removing cams and adjusting valves that are in spec just to put them all in the center or loose end of spec.
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I noticed an oil leak from my valve cover gasket at 95,000 miles. It was covered under warranty.
Cool! Love that extended warranty
While they were in there I suggested they check the valve clearances and replace the plugs, all for the very first time. I simply would not spend the money to get the valves checked every 15k or replace plugs at 7,500 as the manual requires.
You are certainly not alone.
The mechanic was a former race car engine builder and I was told he was the right mechanic for the job. Needless to say I feared anyone taking my engine apart.
Again, not alone. So many dealers are unfamiliar with the C14- it is SIMILAR to the ZX14, but even more complex. Variable valve timing, shaft drive, extra sensors, extra wiring and features, different plastics, etc. Even the ZX14 is not a huge seller. I am surprised you didn't ask for a throttle body sync too (I would have, even knowing it is probably just fine).
He documented all the valves on paper and found all intake valves well in spec. Only one exhaust valve was out at .005. However, he decided after exhaust cam removal that adjusting all exhaust valves to center was easy enough to do. Seven out of eight exhaust valves and all intake valves were still in spec and this is after 95K.
Yep. That actually mirrors many other posts (but certainly not all)- intake being fine and exhaust being too tight by a little. I imagine that if you have to go through the effort of taking out the cam shaft to adjust one valve, it really does make sense to adjust them all to center at that point (since that part is easy). Actually, on the exhaust, it might make more sense to adjust them all to the loose side of in-spec (knowing they will, again, tighten over time)?
He also replace the plugs with ones I supplied even though the plugs removed were functioning and still usable.
And yep again, I am wondering now if I have ever seen ANY posting from ANYONE that has found ANY spark plug that EVER needed replacement at ANY mileage or age in a C14 (excluding the very rare case of obvious engine problems).
I have been wrenching my cars and motorcycles for the past 45 years but decided replacing plugs on this bike was way too much of a pain in the butt. Forget about doing a valve adjustment myself, I would not even attempt it.
+1 x 2! As I have posted elsewhere, no way I could do it myself, and I don't trust my local dealer enough. Waiting for my mechanic friend to do it with me at some point. I am at something like 25K miles now and I am in no rush (although I have a long list of other things I want to do with a major servicing so I will try to get it all done at once- valve check, lubing, bolt tightening, brake and clutch fluid flush/replace, coolant replace, clean rotors, clean/free bobbins, add a radiator guard, reclean/lube the gas cap AGAIN, throttle body sync, etc; I probably shouldn't wait on the brake fluid, though).
Thanks for sharing the info, the more people post their experiences, the better.
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However, he decided after exhaust cam removal that adjusting all exhaust valves to center was easy enough to do.
Please go back and tell your mechanic the next time he does a valve adjust to not adjust to 'Center' .
They should be adjusted/targeted to the maximum spec.
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You would have to show me some documentation that adjusting valves to the loose end is preferable to center, because that makes no sense to me. Spec is spec and if they are at the loose or tight end I doubt very much it matters or could be detectable performance wise. But then again, you may have some engineering or physics documentation on this subject that I hope you would share. Certainly the maintenance schedule in the manual for plugs and valves is quite ridiculous.
As far as throttle body sync, they are synced at the factory and sealed. Why would I want to disturb them? I guess if I really enjoyed wrenching and had the time on my hands and I was looking for things to do it would be different, but I have never heard of the valve lash on any Connie being so severely out of spec that a valve would not close and burned causing major damage. My one out of spec exhaust valve at .005 still had a long way to go before that scenario would unfold. Again, Im not here to criticize or recommend just stating my experience with this bike and latest dealer service.
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Most mechanics already know this. It is common knowledge. You must have heard the saying: "Tappy valves are happy valves"
Read here (just one of many references when googled):
http://www.zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=D659042A-D56B-84E2-1C5A7BC825184613 (http://www.zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=D659042A-D56B-84E2-1C5A7BC825184613)
The rule to adjusting valve clearance is to always adjust to looser spec rather than tighter when a choice or a judgement presents itself. The reason is that valve clearance will always get tighter over time as the valves wear.
For this reason I think it is wrong for a dealership to 'look' at the valves and tell you they are all in spec. That is a waste of money. If your going to pay all that money to have it 'looked at' then they should complete the job correctly and reset the gaps to the maximum specifications so you can go many more miles before the gaps get too small and they always get smaller. When your engine was built the manufacturer sets them towards the max spec- not the middle or the center.
You take it to the dealer and the gaps are all small and they tell you it is ' in spec' because they are. In reality they are close to the tight side but still not out of spec.
Tomorrow or a few thousand miles later the gap(s) become tighter and now they are out of spec.
Does this make sense now? Do not tell them to 'check' your valves so you can be charged for a 'look'.
Tell them you want your valves 'adjusted closest to the max spec''
Reminds me of the commercial about the Dental Monitor.
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I see that most Concours riders report here that valve clearance will get tighter probably due to loss of metal at guides and seat area. However, I have personal experience with valve clearances to become looser in other motors. I assume this was due to carbon build up but I never opened the top end on these engines to see it with my eyes. I wonder if carbon build up and/or valves getting looser has ever happened to a Concours rider in this forum.
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is this on an '08 or an '11??? it really doesn't matter. tho.
I don't care what end of the 'spec" you adjust them to, I call B/S on the whole thing.. total B/S.. and synch? nahhh you don't need that either... tires? pressure? nah... not a problem...
you simply cannot tell us here, that have dealt with this bike for 9 years, your valves were within spec..
B/S.
sorry.
I would never take any advice from you, or believe in your mechanic.
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Carbon buildup does occur but mostly on the older carburated C10's when they are not maintained properly. I have a boroscope and you can see it with that.
YOu dont normally see looser gaps from wear unless the cams are wearing out due to bad or oil starvation and if that is the case- you got bigger problems than valve gaps.
Also it does happen where a valve drops buts is very rare. I have seen many bikes- dirt and quad and C10's with low and no compression because the valves where not adjusted.
I am sure there are C14's loosing compression due to tight valves but many owners dont even notice.
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ROFL.. MOB is very subtle..you have to read between the lines. :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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ROFL.. MOB is very subtle..you have to read between the lines. :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
everything is perfect...
ohcrap its afu
no problemo... bill paid...all good, head in sand...
yeah, I think i got the between the lines thing worked out...
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It is hard to believe anything that comes from some dealers and mechanics. There is a huge temptation with things like "valve clearance check/adjust" to pocket the lots of money with doing the least amount of work possible. It is not like the owner is going to be able to verify what was or wasn't done or likely notice ANY change in the behavior or performance of the engine (other than placebo effect). This is the reason why our sharing information here can be useful.... especially when it is information about jobs done by the owner, himself. I kinda wish I kept a spreadsheet of the findings from every post over the years, categorized by year, mileage, who did it, what kind of riding, how many times the check has been done, etc.
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I see that most Concours riders report here that valve clearance will get tighter probably due to loss of metal at guides and seat area. However, I have personal experience with valve clearances to become looser in other motors. I assume this was due to carbon build up but I never opened the top end on these engines to see it with my eyes. I wonder if carbon build up and/or valves getting looser has ever happened to a Concours rider in this forum.
In saying "other" motors you must obviously mean older motors....other than the Concours! These motors have under bucket shims, so as any wear takes place the clearances get smaller, not larger....always!! Have to agree with you maxtog...most stealers/mechanics take full advantage, and as you say...do nothing but charge for it all the same. I fortunately do keep a detailed speadsheet/record of what has been done etc., seeing I'm the only one who has ever worked on my Concours!! :)
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Sorry MOB I still dont buy your or DM's assumptions. Saying that "all" mechanics know that valves should be adjusted to be "happy" is ridiculous. I would need physics and proof that valve lash decreases with time and is dangerous. Wear on the buckets or cams would induce a loosening of valve lash not tightening. Well we could have this discussion well into the night. I firmly believe when the engine manufacturer set SPECS that any value within those margins are right for the engine. This obsession with loose valve lash is just not logical. Sorry to disagree. Too many owners are obsessed with valve lash when they need to just ride and enjoy the machine. Just because you are a shade tree mechanic and have owned a Concours for 9 years and you are among those who have drunk the kool aid you don't convince me at all. If you believe in what you preach that is great, don't try to force your amateur views on the rest of us. I still have not seen any PROOF or real documentation on your loose valve position. Trying to belittle any other opinion is about all you can do. The mechanic that worked on my engine was a professional race car engine builder. I trust his judgement not yours.
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:popcorn:
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Sorry MOB I still dont buy your or DM's assumptions. Saying that "all" mechanics know that valves should be adjusted to be "happy" is ridiculous. I would need physics and proof that valve lash decreases with time and is dangerous. Wear on the buckets or cams would induce a loosening of valve lash not tightening. Well we could have this discussion well into the night. I firmly believe when the engine manufacturer set SPECS that any value within those margins are right for the engine. This obsession with loose valve lash is just not logical. Sorry to disagree. Too many owners are obsessed with valve lash when they need to just ride and enjoy the machine. Just because you are a shade tree mechanic and have owned a Concours for 9 years and you are among those who have drunk the kool aid you don't convince me at all. If you believe in what you preach that is great, don't try to force your amateur views on the rest of us. I still have not seen any PROOF or real documentation on your loose valve position. Trying to belittle any other opinion is about all you can do. The mechanic that worked on my engine was a professional race car engine builder. I trust his judgement not yours.
Now that, really cracks me up......
Shadetree mechanic?
I never said valves cam clearance got loose.... they ALWAYS get tighter.... and at some point, the valve will not seat, and it will burn.
I have adjusted my valves... I have disassembled and reassembled this stuff, and documented clearances...
Not sure if you are a COG member, but if so, I have to ask you if you know the past Technical Editors of the group, and if so, understand how they got appointed to that position....
Shadetree mechanic... whatta maroon...
I have stayed at a few Holiday Inn Express hotels tho....
Some people pay to have this done.... I prefer to do it myself.... because I CAN....
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2980929930015463693vlgiou_ph.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2980929930015463693vlgiou_ph.jpg.html)
Amateur views??? Really???
Here is a view you undoubtably have never seen.....
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/IMGP1232_zps8wosn0yl.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/IMGP1232_zps8wosn0yl.jpg.html)
Documentation??? What kind do you want, an article?
Maybe I should make and sell a video to prove something???
Wojldnt matter, you wouldn't gain anything from it... enough people here have gained from the shared knowledge tho...
Documentation....
Not sure you will.understand this chart, as you pretty much have to dig into the engine to do this...
But it clearly shows valve cam clearances closed up, and to a point they were at or below min specs, prior to my adjustments...
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2896805850015463693biYSzi_ph.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2896805850015463693biYSzi_ph.jpg.html)
this was after an initial "inspection at 15k" where I felt everything was within, but close to limit, and the chart posted shows what was found at 24k.... when I took action, and DID adjust.
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I noticed an oil leak from my valve cover gasket at 95,000 miles. ......
He documented all the valves on paper and found all intake valves well in spec. Only one exhaust valve was out at .005. However, he decided after exhaust cam removal that adjusting all exhaust valves to center was easy enough to do. Seven out of eight exhaust valves and all intake valves were still in spec and this is after 95K. H........
I still find it hard to comprehend going through the tedious and dangerous steps of removing cams and adjusting valves that are in spec just to put them all in the center or loose end of spec.
I base my responses on your post...
95k miles, without ever being inspected, is ludicrous.
And the .005 dimension you noted.... ? Was it out by .005" or was it measured at .005"?
Doesn't matter, its still way out, as the "spec" was long since gone there.....
The "RANGE" of adjustment is a mere .0020" from top to bottom...
That valve ... was wayyyyyyyy out.
The range of acceptable is very narrow, that's why shims are used... because its precise....
So, want to reveal the dimensions he "actually recorded on paper" for us to peruse?
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So, want to reveal the dimensions he "actually recorded on paper" for us to peruse?
It is always a good idea to DEMAND a dealer (or other mechanic) record everything on paper (and have them DATE and SIGN IT too, with mileage)- measurements before touching anything, what was changed, and measurements after. It doesn't guarantee a mechanic actually did the work, but they are far more likely to take you seriously and much more cautious because if something does go wrong and the work is checked and they didn't do what they said they did, it could be a huge scandal for them. Posting such papers here is good too :)
I hate being such an untrusting person :(
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I don't foresee that happening Max, as I am but a lowly Amateur, Shade tree, mechanic, with no clue, and no credentials to offer valid input about anything... or even to caution people...
:thumbs: :hitfan: :hail: :hail: :hail:
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I don't foresee that happening Max, as I am but a lowly Amateur, Shade tree, mechanic, with no clue, and no credentials to offer valid input about anything... or even to caution people...
:thumbs: :hitfan: :hail: :hail: :hail:
Rich, don't put yourself down so much ... I heard you have quite a way with lawn mowers. ;)
Oh, wait a minute ... never mind, that's some guy in Florida. Sorry. :o
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Rich, don't put yourself down so much ... I heard you have quite a way with lawn mowers. ;)
Oh, wait a minute ... never mind, that's some guy in Florida. Sorry. :o
We all started somewhere... I actually turned my mower repair business over to my father, when I was 15, he made quite a business out of it, and was still doing them up till he passed away at 90...
I moved on to bikes, he never wanted to work on those.... I'm thinking about getting back into the mower thing tho, the shop is still setup, and with bins and cabinets full of new parts he stocked, might be lucrtive.. besides, people don't tend to callazz on ya when you got their mower in pieces, and the grass is getting high...
Thank goodness Bubba lives in Fla, he would put me outta business... 8)
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We all started somewhere... I actually turned my mower repair business over to my father, when I was 15, he made quite a business out of it, and was still doing them up till he passed away at 90...
I moved on to bikes, he never wanted to work on those.... I'm thinking about getting back into the mower thing tho, the shop is still setup, and with bins and cabinets full of new parts he stocked, might be lucrative.. besides, people don't tend to call azz on ya when you got their mower in pieces, and the grass is getting high...
Thank goodness Bubba lives in Fla, he would put me outta business... 8)
Do what ever makes you happy and places appropriate dollars into your pocket. After retirement from 30 years in professional sales, went back into retail. Hours suck and concrete floors are HARD, but I'm having fun. Hope you continue to do so too. I also enjoy your polite and conservative attitude you have here. Makes me smile... tp ;D
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Is the chart MOB used available online? With an explanation on how to fill it out.
Wayne
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Is the chart MOB used available online? With an explanation on how to fill it out.
Wayne
Not perfect, but it wouldn't let me upload the Excel spreadsheet map.
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:DTHANKS ;D
Not perfect, but it wouldn't let me upload the Excel spreadsheet map.
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Not perfect, but it wouldn't let me upload the Excel spreadsheet map.
Found this link... https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?cid=678c38c85621c2f0&page=view&resid=678C38C85621C2F0!511&parId=678C38C85621C2F0!126&app=Excel (https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?cid=678c38c85621c2f0&page=view&resid=678C38C85621C2F0!511&parId=678C38C85621C2F0!126&app=Excel)
It'll have to be scrubbed of the user info, but I downloaded it without issue (and it survived my virus software, so I'm optimistic I didn't just screw my computer up).
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these were hidden in the C14 tech thread... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=3506.msg40384#msg40384 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=3506.msg40384#msg40384)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3506.0;attach=4400 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3506.0;attach=4400)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3506.0;attach=4277 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3506.0;attach=4277)
note they are MS spreadsheets, and can be manipulated by picking shims in place, and values will update accordingly, or, you can simply zero all the values out, and use the form "manually" to record data...
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I need to spend more time looking in the tech thread...
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Here's another is you're not afraid of the Russians... http://vicdzen.narod.ru/index/0-2 (http://vicdzen.narod.ru/index/0-2)
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I was comparing the spreadsheet to the manual and I realized the service manual has a mistake on page 2-26 "Specified Valve Clearance (Mean Value = 0.125 mm)". The spreadsheet is correct and unfortunately the factory service manual has a typo. The mean value should be 0.215mm!
I am sure others have noticed that in the past but I just want to mention it again.
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Here's another is you're not afraid of the Russians... http://vicdzen.narod.ru/index/0-2 (http://vicdzen.narod.ru/index/0-2)
Long shot: Chrome fan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAee0DWfHuQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAee0DWfHuQ)