Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: wcgreen on April 26, 2016, 10:08:58 PM
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So, the 14 is my first "non-cruiser", and I am considering replacing the exhaust this year. Coming from bikes like the Suzuki M109R, my aesthetic leans more to a deep sound... not into volume, just depth of tone. I have listened to a TON of videos online, but it's really difficult to get a true idea of tone. Curious if anyone has actually heard the various slip on pipes in person? Thoughts? From the videos, to me, the Vance & Hines and the Two Brothers "sound" the deepest. Love to know your thoughts from those with experience witnessing the sound of pipes like the V&H, Two Bros, and the Delkevic.
Thanks!
B
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:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
what's wrong with the muffler that came with the bike?
::) ::)
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:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
what's wrong with the muffler that came with the bike?
::) ::)
Too quiet, and too damn big... and that thing's ugly!
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Too quiet, and too damn big... and that thing's ugly!
To each their own. But there is no functionality in a motorcycle being loud. Quiet is considerate, comfortable, modern, and nice. I think that it is not too large (when the bags are on) and not at all ugly, but you are not alone in thinking it is unattractive. If you plan on replacing it, there are lots of choices and many, many dozens of threads the topic it on this board (you need to look under "Accessories" forum if you want to find those threads).... so you came to the right place.
If you are expecting to turn a wonderful I4 engine sound into something like a V-twin... you probably aren't going to be very successful.
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To each their own. But there is no functionality in a motorcycle being loud. Quiet is considerate, comfortable, modern, and nice. I think that it is not too large (when the bags are on) and not at all ugly, but you are not alone in thinking it is unattractive. If you plan on replacing it, there are lots of choices and many, many dozens of threads the topic it on this board (you need to look under "Accessories" forum if you want to find those threads).... so you came to the right place.
If you are expecting to turn a wonderful I4 engine sound into something like a V-twin... you probably aren't going to be very successful.
I would like another exhaust, but for the money, I am actually thinking of getting the Top Block Sliders instead, so I can get rid of the Canyon Cages. I think they bother me more than the exhaust does. If the Top Blocks work as well as the CCs then that might be what I choose to do instead. With the wife, and school, I have to pick my battles... Probably the Copperdawg and the Top Blocks if I had to prioritize.
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To each their own. But there is no functionality in a motorcycle being loud. Quiet is considerate, comfortable, modern, and nice. I think that it is not too large (when the bags are on) and not at all ugly, but you are not alone in thinking it is unattractive. If you plan on replacing it, there are lots of choices and many, many dozens of threads the topic it on this board (you need to look under "Accessories" forum if you want to find those threads).... so you came to the right place.
If you are expecting to turn a wonderful I4 engine sound into something like a V-twin... you probably aren't going to be very successful.
I find it covers the buzzing from the tinnitus quite nicely.
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I find it covers the buzzing from the tinnitus quite nicely.
So would listening to music in earphones.... far more interesting and doesn't bother anyone else, either.
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I would like another exhaust, but for the money, I am actually thinking of getting the Top Block Sliders instead, so I can get rid of the Canyon Cages. I think they bother me more than the exhaust does. If the Top Blocks work as well as the CCs then that might be what I choose to do instead.
Has been a while since the Top Blocks were mentioned. I don't believe they will work as well as the CC- especially regarding the bags/rear, and especially at anything more than a stand-still fallover. Aesthetically, they are much better than the CCs, of course.
I don't think the CC's look bad, but they don't look good either... I would prefer to not need them, but the purpose they serve is so important, I can overlook the minor distraction.
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I rode domestic V-Twins for years and they all had aftermarket exhausts. I have a Muzzy system on my C14 and find it to be quite quiet, until I romp on it. At 85 mph, I don't find it at all loud.
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Being a relatively high reving 4 cylinder, I don't think you will ever get a "deep" sound like a V twin. You can certainly get deeper then stock but nothing like your M109R. One possible solution would be to go to a motoGP race and fall in love with the high rev sound ;D
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I would like another exhaust, but for the money, I am actually thinking of getting the Top Block Sliders instead, so I can get rid of the Canyon Cages. I think they bother me more than the exhaust does. If the Top Blocks work as well as the CCs then that might be what I choose to do instead. With the wife, and school, I have to pick my battles... Probably the Copperdawg and the Top Blocks if I had to prioritize.
My friend dropped his C14 while pulling out of a downtown St Augustine FL curbside parking spot, so very low speed. It landed on the left Top Block and even slid / rotated on it a little. The only thing that touched the ground was the Top Block.
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My friend dropped his C14 while pulling out of a downtown St Augustine FL curbside parking spot, so very low speed. It landed on the left Top Block and even slid / rotated on it a little. The only thing that touched the ground was the Top Block.
Long discussions in the past comparing the two. I believe the conclusion was something on the order of:
The Top Blocs do work (and do look better, by far). And for a basic, zero speed fallover on level pavement, they work about the same. But at any speed, the Blocs start to lose over the canyons. The bike is easier to rock over the Blocs and slam the top section stuff. The CC fronts offer more protection from uneven road and anti-pivot. And with the Blocs (and no rear CCs) the bike can also pivot front to back and smash the bags.
Aesthetically and sense-wise, one good combination would be the rear CCs with the Top Blocs. It isn't as good as front and rear CCs, but it is better than just Top Blocs alone.
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So, the 14 is my first "non-cruiser", and I am considering replacing the exhaust this year. Coming from bikes like the Suzuki M109R, my aesthetic leans more to a deep sound... not into volume, just depth of tone. I have listened to a TON of videos online, but it's really difficult to get a true idea of tone. Curious if anyone has actually heard the various slip on pipes in person? Thoughts? From the videos, to me, the Vance & Hines and the Two Brothers "sound" the deepest. Love to know your thoughts from those with experience witnessing the sound of pipes like the V&H, Two Bros, and the Delkevic.
Thanks!
B
Mr. WCGREEN, I was mocked mercilessly by my friends and kids re. that long black rocket launcher until I launched it into the nearest dumpster and bought the V&H CS-1 slip on . After 4 years and deeeep tones, still lovin' it.
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I, on the other hand, have never heard a single comment about my stock muffler from a single person, ever, over the 5 years I have owned it. Although I got LOTS of compliments about how nice the bike looks, questions about the model, etc.
Just sayin'
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I, on the other hand, have never heard a single comment about my stock muffler from a single person, ever, over the 5 years I have owned it. Although I got LOTS of compliments about how nice the bike looks, questions about the model, etc.
Just sayin'
Oh I see, so our comments to you about that hideously large exhaust can don't count? ;)
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Oh I see, so our comments to you about that hideously large exhaust can don't count? ;)
I can't hear you......
The only comments I have ever *seen* about the muffler are on this forum!
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Max, we're good enough we're all you'll ever need.
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I, on the other hand, have never heard a single comment about my stock muffler from a single person, ever, over the 5 years I have owned it.
Just sayin'
You either need to get out more or you're hanging with the wrong people. I don't want Sport Touring bike to sound like a Prius. ;)
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I have been asked why I need to have a bazooka aimed at the car behind me and weather or not owning a bazooka was legal. My response was that it was only a potato launcher and therefor legal.
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I have been asked why I need to have a bazooka aimed at the car behind me and weather or not owning a bazooka was legal. My response was that it was only a potato launcher and therefor legal.
Even with the onboard fuel bottle and the push button ignition?
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You either need to get out more or you're hanging with the wrong people. I don't want Sport Touring bike to sound like a Prius. ;)
>:( :rotflmao:
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you can always just shorten the scud by 6" and it sounds ok...free.....
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2118805410015463693AAJhpk_ph.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2118805410015463693AAJhpk_ph.jpg.html)
sure beats the dual scuds on the hot bike.....
(http://indianautosblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/2016-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX-14R-side-at-2015-Tokyo-Motor-Show.jpg)
(http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2016/2016-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX14R-ABS3.jpg)
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you can always just shorten the scud by 6" and it sounds ok...free.....
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2118805410015463693AAJhpk_ph.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2118805410015463693AAJhpk_ph.jpg.html)
where is the write up on this modification? how is the sound affected by it
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I didn't do a write up on it, but I tghink someone else did one recently, but they didn't cut as much off as mine has....
its pretty simple if you have an air grinder and cutoff wheel, and a tabletop mig welder, remove the rear cover, grind off the welds around the end, pull the guts... and trim the front section off to the baffle plate and inner parts, mark the can accordingly and follow the existing angular profile, cut, assemble, and reweld...
as far as sound.... it definatly has a deeper tone, but quiet enough not to have folks complaining, when you crank on it you can hear.it for sure, but still its not obnoxious, and doesn't drone at high cruising speeds... when you shut the throttle down its silent....and doesn't pinpoint you to passing LEO's... which is nice.
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you can always just shorten the scud by 6" and it sounds ok...free.....
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2118805410015463693AAJhpk_ph.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2118805410015463693AAJhpk_ph.jpg.html)
sure beats the dual scuds on the hot bike.....
(http://indianautosblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/2016-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX-14R-side-at-2015-Tokyo-Motor-Show.jpg)
(http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2016/2016-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX14R-ABS3.jpg)
Yeah, the C14 has a potato launcher. The ZX14 has dual pumpkin launchers.
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You either need to get out more or you're hanging with the wrong people.
Nah... maybe I just seem to find myself around people who appreciate quiet and quality, and who don't have preconceived notions that a bike has to be loud and annoying to perform well. :P
P.S.- if I had the option for the bike engine to make absolutely no sound at all- I would take it in a heartbeat.
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Nah... maybe I just seem to find myself around people who appreciate quiet and quality, and who don't have preconceived notions that a bike has to be loud and annoying to perform well. :P
P.S.- if I had the option for the bike engine to make absolutely no sound at all- I would take it in a heartbeat.
http://killacycleracing.com/ (http://killacycleracing.com/)
this proves it for sure... I tried to get a Job with A123 ( the battery manufacturer backing the featured bike), as an engineer years ago, the VP of engineering and also the corporate VP for the company I worked for in Va, both went to work for A123... I had good references, but didn't see another corporate move as viable...
http://youtu.be/wbi1RhgRrxk (http://youtu.be/wbi1RhgRrxk)
http://youtu.be/tRpMV-Gf0hA (http://youtu.be/tRpMV-Gf0hA)
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Gives a new definition of "fast". Battery tech as a looooooooooooooong way to go before we will be riding electric motorcycles, though :(
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Gives a new definition of "fast". Battery tech as a looooooooooooooong way to go before we will be riding electric motorcycles, though :(
I don't think so.
I was on the cutting edge of Lithum Ion development in '95-'98, when cost, package, and reliability vs. size and output were in low numbers...
it has exponentially developed in 18 years, and I foresee viable cell technology for bikes, to be within the next 5 years easily.
It took a long time to create a safe "package", which now has been done.
That dragbike was using a bazillion "A" size cells, all tab welded together, to develop almost 2000 amps of power...and that technology was done 8 years ago...
At the time I was doing this work, I constantly pushed the directors to package a larger version of out initial flat pack cells, in large quantity, and in a large "can" for development on motorcycle use. I did manufacture a few on the side, and documented them for future patent disclosure (as I had an extreme amount of material that was suitable for that purpose, but not to spec for small production batteries for Motorolla, our customer). Unfortunatly the division I worked for, sold all of the technology to NGK/Ntk Powerdex
https://www.google.com/patents/US6145280 (https://www.google.com/patents/US6145280)
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I, on the other hand, have never heard a single comment about my stock muffler from a single person, ever, over the 5 years I have owned it. Although I got LOTS of compliments about how nice the bike looks, questions about the model, etc.
Just sayin'
Sometimes it's quite hard to hear the sniggering going on..
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I don't think so.[...] I foresee viable cell technology for bikes, to be within the next 5 years easily
I hope you are right. But I am pretty well read in battery tech, and to me, progress has been kinda slow. To compete with gasoline energy density, it has to improve perhaps 10 fold, still. Sure, it could power a motorcycle... but we want something as fast as a C14, with a range of at least 240 miles, certainly no heavier, and not that much more expensive.... that isn't easy. Every few months for year after year there are "OMG" articles I have read about some new battery tech that will change the world- lasts 8 times as long, charges 10 times as fast, weighs half as much, costs 5 times less, uses less rare (less conflict) materials, cells that live for 10,000+ cycles, that are absolutely safe from fire or overcharging, etc, etc.... not one of them has come to market yet. All the other pieces are there waiting for it, though.... and there is a HUGE an anxious market for electric vehicles.
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you can always just shorten the scud by 6" and it sounds ok...free.....
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2118805410015463693AAJhpk_ph.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2118805410015463693AAJhpk_ph.jpg.html)
Sorry, it's still fugly.
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Sorry, it's still fugly.
True, but less fugly.
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Is a short ugly person less ugly than a tall ugly person?
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Is a short ugly person less ugly than a tall ugly person?
The more ugly you got the more ugly you is.
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In this case, less is definitely more. ;)
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The idea of "ugly" wasn't addressed when I was told decades ago that short people don't have any reason to live.
In fact, it was told to me in song.
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"Yeah, the C14 has a potato launcher. The ZX14 has dual pumpkin launchers."
Exactly, make that double ugly... That's why I'm ordering a pair of Yoshi R77 CF Slip-ons for my new ZX-14!
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"Yeah, the C14 has a potato launcher. The ZX14 has dual pumpkin launchers."
Exactly, make that double ugly... That's why I'm ordering a pair of Yoshi R77 CF Slip-ons for my new ZX-14!
Those Kawa engineers have gotten ahold of some bad drugs or powerful weed- either that or they are laughing their asses off at us stupid Americans and getting revenge.
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Saki..
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Yeah, the C14 has a potato launcher. The ZX14 has dual pumpkin launchers.
If Kim Kardashian's ass was an exhaust pipe, this is what it would look like.
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The idea of "ugly" wasn't addressed when I was told decades ago that short people don't have any reason to live.
In fact, it was told to me in song.
You may want to give that song a closer listen...
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If Kim Kardashian's ass was an exhaust pipe, this is what it would look like.
C'mon now! Those launchers ain't THAT big and ugly! :pukeface:
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Since the day I purchased my bike, I have had an angel on one shoulder and a demon on the other shoulder, both offering there opinions on changing my muffler. Right now the angel is still winning telling me how nice it is zooming through areas and being whisper quiet. As a compromise, I decided to shorten the potato launcher.
(http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah209/Sailor_chic/20160303_172326_zpsaqxrjygi.jpg) (http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/Sailor_chic/media/20160303_172326_zpsaqxrjygi.jpg.html)
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The shadow of the stock muffler weighs 20 pounds.
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The shadow of the stock muffler weighs 20 pounds.
:rotflmao: It's funny because it's true.
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You may want to give that song a closer listen...
Oh yeah!!
I didn't even have to give it another listen - I remembered! :thumbs: I bet it's been 30 years since I last heard that song.
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I've had my C14 For about a week now. I'm loving it. So glad it came with an aftermarket can( two bros. Carbon ). The original is beyond reproach. To quote a line from a favorite film, "fugly is as fugly does " .
Although vastly different machines, this can makes Constance sound like a Lamborghini w/4 less cylinders. I don't care, it's wonderful. 😚👍👍
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That it is..
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The AreaP full system has a baritone voice at low RPM's, a bellowing tenor at mid RPM's, and a very angry alto voice when wound up. >:(
If you want bass throughout the rev range, you'll have to go back to a big V-twin. :o
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Since I first posted in this thread I've gone full Area P with Steve's excellent flash. I love the extra thrust and when I'm riding spirited I love the sound. But when just commuting and running around town there are times I have to tell my bike: shhhhhhh
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. But when just commuting and running around town there are times I have to tell my bike: shhhhhhh
That'll NEVER happen with me...... Loud pipes saves lives. Especially here in the RSA, where you have to ride defensively everywhere you go.
We have things called Mini-bus taxis here (seats 16 people), and these drivers simply do/drive how they want.
Recently, I had one of them almost push me off the road. I had to brake hard to avoid being knocked onto the pavement. Well, I got onto the other side of the taxi, dropped 2 gears, wound the throttle, and took out his passenger side mirror.
I've adopted a "use it or loose it" attitude recently.
You hear me coming, but don't make the effort of using your side mirror to check where I am before just changing lanes, pulling right in front of me while doing so, you don't need your mirror. That gives me the sign that you want your mirror removed, free of charge, and I'll gladly oblige.....
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Damn hooligan... ;D ;D
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Quite!
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:thumbs: It is what it is...... :chugbeer:
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All too true brother...all too true!! ;) ;D :goodpost:
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The shadow of the stock muffler weighs 20 pounds.
That's funny right there.
I've adopted a "use it or loose it" attitude recently.
You hear me coming, but don't make the effort of using your side mirror to check where I am before just changing lanes, pulling right in front of me while doing so, you don't need your mirror. That gives me the sign that you want your mirror removed, free of charge, and I'll gladly oblige.....
I agree with this message.
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I agree with this message.
I agree with knocking off their mirror but not with annoying hundreds or thousands of people a day with unnecessary noise :)
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That's funny right there.
I agree with this message.
I agree with Gabby, even though it's just prairie gibberish.
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My signature used to be "If loud pipes save lives, I'm gonna live forever". But as I have aged, I no longer want to effect other peoples experience whatever it may be. I consider it "stealth riding" and actually enjoy it. I'm with you Maxtog !!
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I consider it "stealth riding" and actually enjoy it. I'm with you Maxtog !!
Well, that makes three of us. Definitely a minority group around here.
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I would love the sound when you get on it but stealth riding saves licenses !
Well, that makes three of us. Definitely a minority group around here.
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Mine had the Leo Vince carbon with the tip installed. It liked the tone, especially when riding vigorously, but enjoyed to lower volume the rest of the time. It wasn't so much about the sound as it was the looks, but the sound was an added benefit.
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My signature used to be "If loud pipes save lives, I'm gonna live forever". But as I have aged, I no longer want to effect other peoples experience whatever it may be. I consider it "stealth riding" and actually enjoy it. I'm with you Maxtog !!
As lovely as that sounds, I keep my bikes quiet because I agree with Max on that one, but I'll keep my distance.
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Stealth riding = Underpromise but overdeliver
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The bikers that "Spank the asphalt" with their Thunder Wagons are a nuisance to their environment and Cop magnets. When I was a kid, we would clothespin a card to the spokes of our bikes to make a motor sound, there was always a guy or two that clipped four of them on....sounded like a tractor! After a few years I grew up.
Potata-Potata-Potata :cool:
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As lovely as that sounds, I keep my bikes quiet because I agree with Max on that one, but I'll keep my distance.
:grouphug:
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I saw a guy who had red and blue lights behind him for about 2 miles. When he finally stopped for the officer he said he could not hear the officers siren on his patrol car because his exhaust was too loud. The poor guy went to jail and had his bike towed away. I knew from that moment on that it was about riding ability and not sound. Plus, I too am with the minority with quite exhaust. Trying to save what little hearing I have left.
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I saw a guy who had red and blue lights behind him for about 2 miles. When he finally stopped for the officer he said he could not hear the officers siren on his patrol car because his exhaust was too loud.
He also had no mirrors??
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Just because some of us have slip-ons installed doesn't mean that our exhausts are loud as hell. My Area P slip-on is very sedate when I ride my bike that way. Can it get loud? Yes but only when I want it to be.
From Area P's site.
The sound readings are taken statically using the standard 20" test at 45°. Slip-On exhaust tone is very different, though the actual decibel levels are very similar. Very low frequency.
Full System - An all gear cruising and to the soft limiter sound byte is noted below. Exhaust tone is very deep, low frequency. Sounds awesome. Muffler is positioned slightly under the bag to assist deflection and attenuation of sound.
Idle 5000rpm
Stock 77-78 dbA 92-93 dbA
Slip-On - 18" Muffler, 2.0" core 83-84 dbA 92-93 dbA
Full System - 18" Muffler, 2.25" core 86 - 87 dbA 98 - 99 dbA
http://areapnolimits.com/sound/c14.mp3 (http://areapnolimits.com/sound/c14.mp3)
YMMV
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+1
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Just because some of us have slip-ons installed doesn't mean that our exhausts are loud as hell. My Area P slip-on is very sedate when I ride my bike that way. Can it get loud? Yes but only when I want it to be.
From Area P's site.
The sound readings are taken statically using the standard 20" test at 45°. Slip-On exhaust tone is very different, though the actual decibel levels are very similar. Very low frequency.
Full System - An all gear cruising and to the soft limiter sound byte is noted below. Exhaust tone is very deep, low frequency. Sounds awesome. Muffler is positioned slightly under the bag to assist deflection and attenuation of sound.
Idle 5000rpm
Stock 77-78 dbA 92-93 dbA
Slip-On - 18" Muffler, 2.0" core 83-84 dbA 92-93 dbA
Full System - 18" Muffler, 2.25" core 86 - 87 dbA 98 - 99 dbA
http://areapnolimits.com/sound/c14.mp3 (http://areapnolimits.com/sound/c14.mp3)
YMMV
I can tell ya those extra 8-10 dbA on the full system is very noticeable.
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Rhino is right on the money.
6db difference is actually twice as loud, per the decibel scale
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Rhino is right on the money.
6db difference is actually twice as loud, per the decibel scale
"How many decibels is twice as loud?"
"Doubling of the volume (loudness) should be sensed as a level difference of +10 dB − acousticians say. Doubling of sound intensity (acoustic energy) belongs to a calculated level change of +3 dB. +10 dB is the level of twice the perceived volume or twice as loud (loudness) in psychoacoustics − mostly sensed."
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I have heard it said before, but can not seem to remember; what decibel level you start to lose some of your hearing?
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http://dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/noise-induced-hearing-loss/ (http://dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/noise-induced-hearing-loss/)
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The bikers that "Spank the asphalt" with their Thunder Wagons are a nuisance to their environment and Cop magnets. When I was a kid, we would clothespin a card to the spokes of our bikes to make a motor sound, there was always a guy or two that clipped four of them on....sounded like a tractor! After a few years I grew up.
Potata-Potata-Potata :cool:
As much as I hate the loud, obnoxious sound of a V- twin tractor motor Harley, I love the sound of a V- twin 1199 Panigale at 9,000 rpm or a C-14 at 9,000 rpm w/o the black bazooka donkey dong.
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Just installed a Delkevic carbon fiber 14 inch stubby on my 2012.The exhaust looks great and has a nice deep sound but not obnoxious. Their exhausts are good quality and are cheaper than the competition,and they ship for free.