Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Burbs on June 26, 2011, 01:54:53 PM
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I've had it with Michelin tires. I can't seem to get more than 6,000 miles out of a set. I'm now less than 4,000 miles on my set of PR3's and the rear is starting to scallop. I RELIGOUSLY check my tire pressures every time I ride and set them at 42 psi. I even started to check pressures while the bike is on it's sidestand, and yet I'm having issues again. I've burned through PR2's and now that I'm burning through this set of PR3's, I'm done with Michelin tires for good!!!
Could this be happening because of too much weight on my bike? I'm about 250 and my wife is 115, tack on a little extra with the topcase and perhaps some light clothing, especially on day trips. Should I go up in size on my rear? Looking at the load requirements, does that number include the bike weight? If that's the case, I'm wondering if I'm over the load limit.
-Chris
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I'm now less than 4,000 miles on my set of PR3's and the rear is starting to scallop.
Can you you post up any pics Chris? ???
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Can you you post up any pics Chris? ???
I'll post them up tonight.
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Chris,
What milage did you get from the OEM BT-021s?
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Could be a combo of weight and riding style. When you break, how you break, how you turn in, how you roll on/off the throttle. I'm 185-190 lbs, and I run the same PSI as you. If you ride "sportingly" 2 up, it could easilly be argued you should be running a higher tire pressure than me.
YMMV....
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You can also have tire issues if your suspension is not properly set for the load that you usually carry. I suspect if you're getting the same wear issues at about the same amount of miles on different sets of tires, it isn't the tires. Though, 6000 miles may not be bad if you usually ride 2 up (don't know--almost never ride with a passenger). Cupping or scalloping is usually a sign of something other than just wear and I suspect it is your suspension.
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I'm amazed you guys go through tires at that rate.
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I am 6'2", 225 (on a good day!) wife is 120. We ride quite a bit 2 up, fully loaded, Givi V46 trunk. I got 12,000 out of the first set of PR2s and I am about 8000 miles into the second set with no issues. I will easily get 12,000 out of this set. I hit the dragon twice a year and I am not easy on the rear tire. I usually have mine set at 40 psi. I only got a little over 3000 on the OEM set before they were trash.
Maybe it is harsher, grittier roads in your area?
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Hmmm...by those numbers, I should get some epic mileage from my PR3s as I got 8500+ miles on the stockers. ;D
Me,200 lbs, the wife, well, she'd likely just kill me if I pulished that number. Givi v46 and a good amount of two up riding.
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Only got 7000 rear and 8000 front out of my last PR2's. Rear was well into the wear bars in the middle and the front was worn on the left. I ride mostly one up on two lane blacktops moderately aggressive. My first set wore a little better. Just put a set of BT023's on and they feel pretty dam good. I'm hoping to get PR2 mileage out of them.
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I had at least 10k on my PR2s before I replaced them with PR3s. I don't have any complaints about them and they are my tire of choice for the foreseeable future. The PR2s probably had about 2k or more left on them but I was going on a trip (1500 miles) and didn't want to take a chance on them wearing out before I got back. I like the PR3s better. They 'feel' better at higher speeds and stick like glue. Rode them in a deluge a couple of days ago and had no issues to report.
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I replace my Michelins at 6-7K miles. Not because the tread is gone, but I prefer fresh sticky tires over hard worn out SOB's
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What about the stock BT? My rear still good after 9000 miles. But the front was done at 7000.
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What about the stock BT? My rear still good after 9000 miles. But the front was done at 7000.
My stockers sucked so bad on my '10 as far as handling that i took them off the bike not long after I bought it.
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What about the stock BT? My rear still good after 9000 miles. But the front was done at 7000.
You actually did quite well with those. I got about the same mileage before I replaced them with PR2s. I didn't have any problems with my stock BT's. They handled quite well for me but the PR2/3s are better tires for my style of riding.
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Wow 4000 miles before the scallops appear. That's pretty good. Mine seem to appear by the time I get to the end of my driveway after mounting them. ;D That's with every tire I've had to date on this bike.
This PR3 is about to turn 4000 miles.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NOA5M3ax_nQ/TgiWM4pir5I/AAAAAAAABXs/sc0QOVk6E7U/s912/P1050285.JPG)
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I have gotten epic miles out of PR2's when I installed them on my BMW 1200RT. I actually had a rear last 25,000 miles, and that is not a typo. I just installed a set on the C14 - OEM tires lasted about 10,000.
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I had at least 10k on my PR2s before I replaced them with PR3s. I don't have any complaints about them and they are my tire of choice for the foreseeable future. The PR2s probably had about 2k or more left on them but I was going on a trip (1500 miles) and didn't want to take a chance on them wearing out before I got back. I like the PR3s better. They 'feel' better at higher speeds and stick like glue. Rode them in a deluge a couple of days ago and had no issues to report.
Hey buddy your back.......have a good time? 8)
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Remember, there were 2 different BT-021 stock tires, the '08-'09, then the '10+ which were BT-021'U'. The 'U' version apparently had more rubber in the tread area to increase mileage.
So anyone that has a '10 or '11 should get more mileage before the strange wear pattern shows up. I have heard some of the first 2010s got the old BT-021 and not the new BT-021'U'.
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Road surface... blacktop, concrete... and surface temperature... will impact tire life along with riding style, load weight, and running PSI.
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Road surface... blacktop, concrete... and surface temperature... will impact tire life along with riding style, load weight, and running PSI.
hey hey hey you're bringing common sense into a "tire thread".......almost not kewl (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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Sorry I didn't post last night. I'm not sure if you'll even see the scalloping as it's in the early stages, but here a few shots. I met a few friends yesterday and one of them immediately mentioned it to me before I even noticed.
(http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/CJBurbank/IMG_0005-1.jpg)
(http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/CJBurbank/IMG_0003-1.jpg)
(http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/CJBurbank/IMG_0001-2.jpg)
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Road surface... blacktop, concrete... and surface temperature... will impact tire life along with riding style, load weight, and running PSI.
That's absolutely true, but there's no reason I shouldn't get at least 9K on these tires. It hasn't really been that hot for the road temps to rise, in fact there are some areas where the frost heaves are still around.
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hey hey hey you're bringing common sense into a "tire thread".......almost not kewl (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
OMG! There goes my old Honda habits again... :o j/k
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That's absolutely true, but there's no reason I shouldn't get at least 9K on these tires. It hasn't really been that hot for the road temps to rise, in fact there are some areas where the frost heaves are still around.
Hard braking? Like to do some aggresive off the light take offs? Don't know what to tell you...
I got 11k out of the PR2's... got 8k out of the Storm II's... will see how the Angel ST's do. 8)
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Sorry I didn't post last night. I'm not sure if you'll even see the scalloping as it's in the early stages, but here a few shots. I met a few friends yesterday and one of them immediately mentioned it to me before I even noticed.
(http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/CJBurbank/IMG_0003-1.jpg)
You just need to find more right hand sweepers to ride to balance your tire wear out. ;)
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The smart thing to do "for a while" will be to stick with the PR2's.....these tires are not fully proven yet.
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The smart thing to do "for a while" will be to stick with the PR2's.....these tires are not fully proven yet.
This is a joke right Poke? :o Not a chance would I put those junk PR2's on my bike. The PR3's might be unproven, and could have issues. But I know what the PR2's were like that I had. I wouldn't run a free pair of PR2's! Well maybe if I was just going to ride the highways back and forth cross country and never have to actually turn the bike. ;D
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I believe the term may be "cupping"... not scalloping. I think.
Either way, it probably is not the tire. As stated above by more than one, riding style, turn-in, braking, weight, rolling on/off, air pressure, and suspension settings.... can all combine to kill tires quickly.
My PR2s wore perfectly, until the rear flatted. ARGH!
Barry
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I've seen it in fronts but not rears.
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I've seen it in fronts but not rears.
That's what she said... :-X
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That's what she said... :-X
I hear that!
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This is a joke right Poke? :o Not a chance would I put those junk PR2's on my bike. The PR3's might be unproven, and could have issues. But I know what the PR2's were like that I had. I wouldn't run a free pair of PR2's! Well maybe if I was just going to ride the highways back and forth cross country and never have to actually turn the bike. ;D
Mine did pretty well with you, Bob.... ;)
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You just need to find more right hand sweepers to ride to balance your tire wear out. ;)
:rotflmao: :thumbs:
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I believe the term may be "cupping"... not scalloping. I think.
Either way, it probably is not the tire. As stated above by more than one, riding style, turn-in, braking, weight, rolling on/off, air pressure, and suspension settings.... can all combine to kill tires quickly.
My PR2s wore perfectly, until the rear flatted. ARGH!
Barry
Ugh! You're right Barry!!! Can ya tell I'm not the mechanically inclined person??? I don't believe my riding style is really that aggressive. As for the suspension, I wouldn't know where to begin to bring try and set it up properly. I do know there's a guy in Bellingham who's supposed to be really good with suspensions. Unfortunately I can't remember his name. When I was at Penguin Racing School a few weeks ago, the guys up there were talking about him.
-Chris
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Mine did pretty well with you, Bob.... ;)
I don't know Jim. I had to keep backing off watching you squirm all over the road. I was waiting for the crash!!! :yikes: OK, I'm kidding. You ran along at a good pace that made for a fun weekend! Are you sure you had PR2's? :stirpot:
I really did have a good time on that trip! Again thanks for leading it! We'll have to do that again. Maybe get Pokey to join us next time!! 8)
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That may be a possibility..
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I burned through my PR2's in 4000 miles. The front probably had a 1000 left but I swapped them out for the Angel ST's and they look like they will last about that long also. I ride aggressively with a lot of high RPM riding and engine braking. The PR2's I had wore really well all the way to the end and I never was affraid to keep pushing them. Majority of my riding is on twisty roads and only about a 1000 on the slab for that set. I have no complaints about the PR2's and really believe riding style has a lot to do with the wear. I ran 42 PSI all the time. I have reserved myself to the fact that the way I ride will only get me 4-5K out of any brand tire. If you were on the slab more I can see how you could get 10,000 out of a set. If anyone wants to test out your tires on the same roads we are riding here please let me know and I will "force" myself to take you out! LOL :)
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Well, apparently PR3s are on "hold" according to my dealer. He says his supplier won't give him any update other than Michelin stopped supplying them. I heard a story about the rubber not cured and almost melted off a set.
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Just my opinion but it looks like you could use just a touch more air in that tire judging by the heavy wear just outside the inner compound. Not a lot but maybe 2 PSI more than you have been using. Otherwise it does not look all that bad to me other than maybe somewhat short on mileage. The PR3 is a relatively new tire though and I don't think we really have a good idea yet how long they will last compared with other tires with better known characteristics. It is normal for tires to wear with a slight 'scallop' around the leading and trailing edges of the tread blocks.
By all means, try a different tire though. There seem to be a bunch available to choose from at the moment, which is all great news for us riders.
I am tempted to try a set of Continental Road Attack 2's occasionally but Michelin PR2s have performed so well for me that I always hesitate to move away from them. I did try a set of Pirelli Angels with OK results but prefer the Michelins.
As far as the visual look of the tire, I would not worry about any slight imperfections in tire wear as long as you cannot feel the defect when you ride the bike. Truly scalloped tires will absolutely get your attention.
Brian
Sorry I didn't post last night. I'm not sure if you'll even see the scalloping as it's in the early stages, but here a few shots. I met a few friends yesterday and one of them immediately mentioned it to me before I even noticed.
<snipped photos>
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Well, apparently PR3s are on "hold" according to my dealer. He says his supplier won't give him any update other than Michelin stopped supplying them. I heard a story about the rubber not cured and almost melted off a set.
Has to be true. Since its now posted on the internet its all factual.
Anyone needs PR3's let me know, I'll put you on them. Even the highly sought after 190/55's with the mad handling abilities.
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By all means, try a different tire though. There seem to be a bunch available to choose from at the moment, which is all great news for us riders.
Brian
Can't tell you how much a comment like that hurts us C-10 riders... :'(
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(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/eek1.gif)
Tire expert saw the pics and said the pattern of that tires shows it overheated due to be very under-inflated, or overloaded, or both.
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(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/eek1.gif)
Tire expert saw the pics and said the pattern of that tires shows it overheated due to be very under-inflated, or overloaded, or both.
Yeap, I aggree. Not a tire expert but I have had several trailer tires end up just like this with no doubt that they were overloaded and overheated with low pressure being a contributing factor.
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Silly me...I sent a note to Michelin and they said they know nothing about tires not being available until September...Hmmm :o
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It was not aimed at 'you guys' riding C-10s, merely stating that at the moment there seems to be a good selection of sport- touring rubber that works very well on a C-14. And even beyond that, there is an entire selection of sport and racing rubber that will also work very well although the 'stickiness' is offset by the very short life of these types of tires. I think it was a great move on Kawasaki's part to use tire sizes that are about as standard as any available on the C-14.
Brian
Can't tell you how much a comment like that hurts us C-10 riders... :'(
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It was not aimed at 'you guys' riding C-10s, merely stating that at the moment there seems to be a good selection of sport- touring rubber that works very well on a C-14. And even beyond that, there is an entire selection of sport and racing rubber that will also work very well although the 'stickiness' is offset by the very short life of these types of tires. I think it was a great move on Kawasaki's part to use tire sizes that are about as standard as any available on the C-14.
Brian
It was a joke! Nothing at all to argue with in your comments. Every time I think I would LOVE to have 17" wheels for the selection of tires...I think about the mileage of the newer tires and I think back to a guy I know who got 25k miles out of 491 Elites on his Voyager XII...repeatedly!
Not comparing that bike to a C-14...but, I'm thinking those days are gone!
Good luck!
Brad
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Silly me...I sent a note to Michelin and they said they know nothing about tires not being available until September...Hmmm :o
I tried responding and axing that runmor in two threads already.
Did you tell them "you read it on the internet", in the same bogus thread about an "internet" complaint (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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Well, I've had almost 8,000 miles out of my PR3 rear with no chunking/cupping/abnormal wear or bits flying out.
The middle is mostly gone but it still grips like poop on a blanket.
I will be replacing it with another PR3 and keep the current front PR3 as that hardly looks worn.
Looks like I'll get about the same mileage as the PR2 on the rear and maybe a bit better on the front.
Given how much better the pR3 is in the wet, and how much it rains here, they are the tyre of choice for me.
Can't comment for those of you who live in hotter climes with yer roads made from Carborandum.
I guess if I lived there I'd want to fit some longer life tyres.
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Quote from: B.D.F. on Yesterday at 07:51:24 pm
By all means, try a different tire though. There seem to be a bunch available to choose from at the moment, which is all great news for us riders.
Brian
Can't tell you how much a comment like that hurts us C-10 riders... :'(
This is one of the reasons I am a former ST1100 owner -- the Dunlop D103 is the only rear tire available for the bike.
Speaking of which, the ST1100 would scallop a front tire almost immediately if you were not fantatical about the front tire pressure.
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Quote from: B.D.F. on Yesterday at 07:51:24 pm
By all means, try a different tire though. There seem to be a bunch available to choose from at the moment, which is all great news for us riders.
Brian
This is one of the reasons I am a former ST1100 owner -- the Dunlop D103 is the only rear tire available for the bike.
Speaking of which, the ST1100 would scallop a front tire almost immediately if you were not fantatical about the front tire pressure.
WOW! I didn't know...I'm feeling better already! I think that's part of why I got rid of my ST1100, too...
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#1 : our mythical hero (no-one in particular) decides to purchase the world's most powerful sport-tourer.
#2 : he then proceeds to add some goodies and a wife to the bike.
#3 : Because suspension set-up seems like a black art he never gets around to setting his suspension for the conditions he rides in.
#4 : He sets tire pressure to a number he reads on the tire sidewall and infrequently checks it.
#5 : He forgets that outside temps and weight and riding style and highway and mountain riding (ad.inf.) affect tires immensely.
#6 : he reads this board and comes across second-hand mini crises (my tire bends in half !!!, I'm gonna proclaim to the world that we are in danger!) and assumes this must be accurate "info".
End result?
Screw all that engineering that IS his sport-tourer and stick a car tire on it....
Unfortunately I'm not known for my tact and diplomacy skills, so hammer me if you will, but afterwards... go set your suspension and tire pressures properly.
Fretka
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Unfortunately I'm not known for my tact and diplomacy skills, so hammer me if you will, but afterwards... go set your suspension and tire pressures properly.
Fretka
Consider yourself hammered...
(http://gallery.koroded.net/d/11672-1/HammerTime.gif)
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Consider yourself hammered...
(http://gallery.koroded.net/d/11672-1/HammerTime.gif)
Ouch! That was pretty harsh...
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STOP! Hammer Time!
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Consider yourself hammered...
(http://gallery.koroded.net/d/11672-1/HammerTime.gif)
:rotflmao:
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What are you saying? We don't all have to hate Michelin tires? ??? How can that be possible? I thought there was a forum quorum and it was already decided....? Didn't we vote and everything? Are you sure you are allowed to go against the masses will like this?
:D
I am almost done with Michelin tires myself. Well, at least this set. Then onto the next set….
And as far as your diplomacy skills, that's OK with me- truth and accuracy will beat a gentle but incorrect delivery every single time. Besides you were only mildly sarcastic and modestly funny, which I personally think is a great combo.
And what is this about a 'mini crisis- I thought it was a full- blown, five alarm panic we had there?
Finally, what kind of car tire do you reccomend?
Brian
#1 : our mythical hero (no-one in particular) decides to purchase the world's most powerful sport-tourer.
#2 : he then proceeds to add some goodies and a wife to the bike.
#3 : Because suspension set-up seems like a black art he never gets around to setting his suspension for the conditions he rides in.
#4 : He sets tire pressure to a number he reads on the tire sidewall and infrequently checks it.
#5 : He forgets that outside temps and weight and riding style and highway and mountain riding (ad.inf.) affect tires immensely.
#6 : he reads this board and comes across second-hand mini crises (my tire bends in half !!!, I'm gonna proclaim to the world that we are in danger!) and assumes this must be accurate "info".
End result?
Screw all that engineering that IS his sport-tourer and stick a car tire on it....
Unfortunately I'm not known for my tact and diplomacy skills, so hammer me if you will, but afterwards... go set your suspension and tire pressures properly.
Fretka
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YMMV, I reckon. With my two previous C10's...I had the best luck with the Avon Elan II sized to fit the GL1500 (higher sidewall than the OEM C10 IIRC)...they stuck great (no chicken strips!) and lasted at least 20k miles.
With my current C14...I'm rather fond of the the Michelin PR2's. I'm getting about 15,000 mile per rear and about 20,000 on the front....ridden in all conditions.
I've always been easy on tires....riding habit maybe? (I regularly get 46-48mpg on my C14).
YMMV.
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/HNBAS-Tour-2010/IMG0044/1045280905_ag9bF-L.jpg)
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/HNBAS-Tour-2010/IMG0153/1049574234_CYVLW-L.jpg)
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Other/HNBAS-tour-2008/IMG0074/1234466389_ncFbD-L.jpg)
I was gonna put a set of PR3's on next..(headed to the Indy MotoGP via lots of sport riding)...buy maybe I'll keep looking for some more PR2's.
YMMV.
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Me too- on all counts. I have gotten 16K + miles out of three sets of PR2s on a C-14. Currently running a fourth set and have 10K miles on them and both look good. Even all of America, twice, did not wear through a set of PR2s although it did flat them pretty good. I was also going to try PR3s but I am wary of the siping cuts on then (that usually affects performance on dry roads negatively) and the PR2s have performed so well for me I hesitate to change to the -3's.
Brian
YMMV, I reckon. With my two previous C10's...I had the best luck with the Avon Elan II sized to fit the GL1500 (higher sidewall than the OEM C10 IIRC)...they stuck great (no chicken strips!) and lasted at least 20k miles.
With my current C14...I'm rather fond of the the Michelin PR2's. I'm getting about 15,000 mile per rear and about 20,000 on the front....ridden in all conditions.
I've always been easy on tires....riding habit maybe? (I regularly get 46-48mpg on my C14).
YMMV.
<snipped photos>
I was gonna put a set of PR3's on next..(headed to the Indy MotoGP via lots of sport riding)...buy maybe I'll keep looking for some more PR2's.
YMMV.
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It was a joke! Nothing at all to argue with in your comments. Every time I think I would LOVE to have 17" wheels for the selection of tires...I think about the mileage of the newer tires and I think back to a guy I know who got 25k miles out of 491 Elites on his Voyager XII...repeatedly!
Not comparing that bike to a C-14...but, I'm thinking those days are gone!
Good luck!
Brad
I had an xs11 yamaha with full fairing and bags when the touring elite/sport elite were released. I believe the numbers were 291 and 491, but its been a while. The sport was the 291 and it was the meanest looking tire I ever saw. It looked like a racing slick with very few grooves cut in it. The touring elite, the 491 had more grooves, but looked good.
My father had the identical bike. His bike wore out the oem tire in 4500 miles..cords showing. He could get 6000 miles from a rear 491, and 8000 from a front 491. The sport 291's would last half of that. My mileage was a thousand less with either tire.
The zx11 was about the same size and weight as the voyager, maybe smaller, but I never saw anyone get close to 25k from a rear tire. Or a front. It was not unusual to find a heavily loaded Goldwing owner bitching about getting 2k from a rear. Plus, neither tire would come close to matching the performance of even the original tires on the c 14. Comparing them to what is available now is like comparing the concours 14 to the xs11. As far as cost goes, the local shops are selling tires for roughly double the price I paid in 82. Not bad considering the price of the motorcycle has gone up 6 times, or more.
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I had an xs11 yamaha with full fairing and bags when the touring elite/sport elite were released. I believe the numbers were 291 and 491, but its been a while. The sport was the 291 and it was the meanest looking tire I ever saw. It looked like a racing slick with very few grooves cut in it. The touring elite, the 491 had more grooves, but looked good.
My father had the identical bike. His bike wore out the oem tire in 4500 miles..cords showing. He could get 6000 miles from a rear 491, and 8000 from a front 491. The sport 291's would last half of that. My mileage was a thousand less with either tire.
The zx11 was about the same size and weight as the voyager, maybe smaller, but I never saw anyone get close to 25k from a rear tire. Or a front. It was not unusual to find a heavily loaded Goldwing owner bitching about getting 2k from a rear. Plus, neither tire would come close to matching the performance of even the original tires on the c 14. Comparing them to what is available now is like comparing the concours 14 to the xs11. As far as cost goes, the local shops are selling tires for roughly double the price I paid in 82. Not bad considering the price of the motorcycle has gone up 6 times, or more.
Dunlop 291 and 391 tires came in an "S" version for sporting applications...and a "T" version for touring...the "T" model had the additional siping...The 491 was developed from these earlier touring tires...and it's focus was on higher mileage. 4500 on the OEM tire sounds a little low...but, in the ballpark for a loaded machine.
The ZX11 (is that the bike you are referring to?) uses 17" tires...which, as I stated, don't LAST as long as 15" or 16" touring tires...which the Voyager XII uses...If you meant XS11, which would use similar technology tires...6k/8k from the 491 sounds very low indeed...and, like I said...I wasn't trying to compare the C-14 to a Voyager XII...or, as you stated, an XS11!
As for the 25k claim...I saw him do it TWICE! I had a Voyager XII at the same time...and was getting 12k on a rear, and 15k on a front...I was astounded when I first saw it...I can assure you that he was anal about air pressure and speed (or lack thereof), which contributed to his mileage, I'm sure. He was also one of the few people that, when we were out for a ride...I would have to wait for him when we stopped for a break!
And...to say it again...those days are gone...
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Finally, what kind of car tire do you reccomend?
Brian
[/quote]
Mickey Thompson Wrinkle Walls, (if ya get 'em wide enough you don't need your sidestand ;D