Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Eupher on December 10, 2015, 03:38:28 PM
-
I've got 600 miles on this bike. I'm sure it's got the original battery in it and while it hasn't been cold, I have noticed a bit of a wheeze in the early morning.
Today, at noon in 66 deg temps, I've got my trusty key fob, turn the key, all the bells and whistles light up, I hear the fuel pump pressurize and...
...nuthin'.
Not even so much as a grunt.
I checked the engine kill switch. It's in the run position. I flipped it back and forth to make sure "run" meant "run".
I checked and put the bike in neutral (it had been in first gear). Clutch in (even in neutral), still no dice.
Fuel is about half a tank and is only about a week old.
I'm thinking the battery has enough oomph to turn on the Christmas tree lights, but not enough to energize the coils for spark.
What say all of you masters of the wrench?
-
Replace the battery.
-
batt may be fine, but the connections to it, and to the frame need to be removed, abrasively (sandpaper) cleaned, greased, and reinstalled tight.
most common issue with this bike is a resistive batt connection.
-
Thanks, gentlemen!
-
Yep, tighten all connections to the battery and frame ground and then charge up the battery. If it still acts that way, time for a new battery!
-
batt may be fine, but the connections to it, and to the frame need to be removed, abrasively (sandpaper) cleaned, greased, and reinstalled tight.
most common issue with this bike is a resistive batt connection.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.....what he said.
-
Yep, tighten all connections to the battery and frame ground and then charge up the battery. If it still acts that way, time for a new battery!
REMOVE AND CLEAN THE CONNECTIONS then install and tighten.
simply tightening a dirty connection, with invisible resistive coating, will not remedy the issue, you have to scrape off the invisible oxide coatings.
-
REMOVE AND CLEAN THE CONNECTIONS then install and tighten.
simply tightening a dirty connection, with invisible resistive coating, will not remedy the issue, you have to scrape off the invisible oxide coatings.
+1 on that. Bought my 2011 used and shortly after had the same scenario as you so ordered a new battery. When installing the new battery found that the ground to the frame was only finger tight-after tightening all was good but since I had already put the acid in the new battery I installed it. The old one is on a trickle charger as a back-up.
-
REMOVE AND CLEAN THE CONNECTIONS then install and tighten.
simply tightening a dirty connection, with invisible resistive coating, will not remedy the issue, you have to scrape off the invisible oxide coatings.
+1 on that. Bought my 2011 used and shortly after had the same scenario as you so ordered a new battery. When installing the new battery found that the ground to the frame was only finger tight-after tightening all was good but since I had already put the acid in the new battery I installed it. The old one is on a trickle charger as a back-up.
-
REMOVE AND CLEAN THE CONNECTIONS then install and tighten.
simply tightening a dirty connection, with invisible resistive coating, will not remedy the issue, you have to scrape off the invisible oxide coatings.
Yeah, yeah, yeah....what he said.
-
After you turn the ignition on (but before trying to start) cycle the display to battery voltage, keep an eye on it whilst you engage the starter.
-
IF and that's a big IF - the above advise doesn't solve your problem, look at the Kick Stand switch and the Tip-Over switch.
IF those are fine then I would take apart the emergency stop switch just to make sure it's fine too. IF no-go (I know a lot of ifs') then have the
battery load tested OR just get a new one.
Good luck and let us know when you get it started.
Just out of curiosity - You said YOU have 600 miles on the bike - How many miles total are on the bike?
-
After you turn the ignition on (but before trying to start) cycle the display to battery voltage, keep an eye on it whilst you engage the starter.
Good point. I'll do that. Thanks.
-
IF and that's a big IF - the above advise doesn't solve your problem, look at the Kick Stand switch and the Tip-Over switch.
IF those are fine then I would take apart the emergency stop switch just to make sure it's fine too. IF no-go (I know a lot of ifs') then have the
battery load tested OR just get a new one.
Good luck and let us know when you get it started.
Just out of curiosity - You said YOU have 600 miles on the bike - How many miles total are on the bike?
600 miles total - I bought the bike 6 weeks ago with 1 mile on the odometer. (Yeah, I know, not a lot of riding so far -- I'm workin' on it!)
I've ordered a new battery because from the get-go, I suspected that it was a battery issue. It had been wheezing a bit and as the bike literally sat in a stealership for 3 years waiting for me to come along and buy it, the battery languished as well. Batteries - most of 'em anyway - don't last as long as they once did. And yeah, when I lived in colder climes, I took the battery out and put it on a trickle charger over the winter. Even still, I could get only 4, maybe 5 years out of a battery before it went belly up.
The new battery that's on the way seems to be a bit beefier with 220 CCA. Those that I looked at (short of getting into $150-250 range, which is waaaaaay too much for me to spend on a battery) went 200 to 220. I paid $67 at batterystuff.com. Just waiting on Mr. Postman now....
In the meantime when I can find an hour spare time (I get home from work when it's dark and I don't have a garage), I'll take the old battery out and clean out the terminals as previously suggested. My Dad taught me that kinda stuff years ago anyway, but it doesn't hurt to hear it again.
-
Dealerships are notorious for not properly tightening the battery connections when assembling the bike. A 5 minute fix. Just saying...
-
Dealerships are notorious for not properly tightening the battery connections when assembling the bike. A 5 minute fix. Just saying...
I hear you, but this time things appear to be shipshape (apart from a semi-dead battery, of course).
During lunch I attempted to start the bike (no dice) while observing the voltage on the display. 12.1 volts DC. Apparently not enough oomph when the usual reading is 14.4 VDC.
So I pulled the battery out and the connections all were tight and looked clean. There was a bit of a pinch on the ground wire, but not enough to break the insulation. I'll clean all that up with some emery cloth and coat with some grease during reassembly with the new battery when it comes in. I'm fairly confident things will return to normal at that time and I can begin to enjoy that saddle I bought from Speedracersworld.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20305.msg251231#msg251231 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20305.msg251231#msg251231)
-
I hear you, but this time things appear to be shipshape (apart from a semi-dead battery, of course).
You don't say which year bike it is in your signature or avatar. [UPDATE: DUUUUUH, it is in the subject] If you bought an old-stock bike that had been sitting for perhaps YEARS and the battery never charged, that can and will destroy a lead-acid battery (it can sulfate when left discharged and then have no depth to it anymore). This happened to the battery on my generator, and once I was able to shock it back to to life (lots of effort) and the next time I could not resurrect it (and the procedure is dangerous and not recommended, anyway). Some chargers have a magic "sulfated" mode that can supposedly, eventually reverse some sulfation, but I am skeptical.
During lunch I attempted to start the bike (no dice) while observing the voltage on the display. 12.1 volts DC. Apparently not enough oomph when the usual reading is 14.4 VDC.
No. The "usual" reading on the display would be with the bike running, and that usual realing is the voltage of the alternator feeding the battery, not just the battery. The alternator SHOULD be 14.x V, while the battery should be 12.x V. If your battery were in the 14 V range, that would be very bad (or it was just showing a fake surface charge with no load). Also, reading the voltage of a LA battery with zero load on it is notoriously inaccurate for predicting much about the state of the battery or its charge. Better to have at least a 1A load on it for a minute or so first/during.
So I pulled the battery out and the connections all were tight and looked clean. There was a bit of a pinch on the ground wire, but not enough to break the insulation. I'll clean all that up with some emery cloth and coat with some grease during reassembly with the new battery when it comes in. I'm fairly confident things will return to normal at that time
Probably!
-
You don't say which year bike it is in your signature or avatar. If you bought an old-stock bike that had been sitting for perhaps YEARS and the battery never charged, that can and will destroy a lead-acid battery (it can sulfate when left discharged and then have no depth to it anymore). This happened to the battery on my generator, and once I was able to shock it back to to life (lots of effort) and the next time I could not resurrect it (and the procedure is dangerous and not recommended, anyway). Some chargers have a magic "sulfated" mode that can supposedly, eventually reverse some sulfation, but I am skeptical.
See the Subject line above.
No. The "usual" reading on the display would be with the bike running, and that usual realing is the voltage of the alternator feeding the battery, not just the battery. The alternator SHOULD be 14.x V, while the battery should be 12.x V. If your battery were in the 14 V range, that would be very bad (or it was just showing a fake surface charge with no load). Also, reading the voltage of a LA battery with zero load on it is notoriously inaccurate for predicting much about the state of the battery or its charge. Better to have at least a 1A load on it for a minute or so first/during.
Okay, understood. As stated in my first post, there was enough juice in the battery to light up the Christmas tree but not enough to turn the motor over. Just on that basis and seeing that the various connections were in good shape (not loose, or heavily corroded) and knowing that the battery is 3 years old, there ya go. Best I've ever been able to get out of a battery was 5 years, and I milked that puppy (easy boys!) every step of the way.
-
See the Subject line above.
LOL!!!!!!!! OMG. That is *classic*!! :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
knowing that the battery is 3 years old, there ya go. Best I've ever been able to get out of a battery was 5 years, and I milked that puppy (easy boys!) every step of the way.
Yep.... my original Concours battery died after just 3 years. But it was allowed to go dead at least once (happened much faster than expected) and I wasn't using a battery tender (now I do).
And my G37 battery only lasted 4 years! I don't seem to have great luck with batteries.
-
He stated that gauges shows 12+ volts not 14.4 The 14.4 would be when bike is running. And from the other stuff he said he tried. Something is telling me neutral switch.
-
starter motor will need a lot more power than lights on the dash and fuel pump priming, and even powering the coils.
i had the same problem a few months back (same year bike, daily use).
i check battery voltages with a multimeter every month (after shutting off engine for 6-8 hours), showed voltages above 12.7v.
dash showed 12v+ when bike is switched on (but before engine is started). cleaned up all the battery connections, multiple times.
but yet, the engine had a hard time starting. loads of hesitation when starting, and there was a few times that the engine just stopped dead before turning again.
replaced the battery, and everything is working perfectly.
i think a battery load tester would be more accurate in telling you the state of the battery.
-
He stated that gauges shows 12+ volts not 14.4 The 14.4 would be when bike is running.
Yep... and then he surmised that because it was not showing the "usual" 14V, that the battery was weaker than normal and that could be why it didn't start. I was letting him know (and others who might read it later) that it is not correct. Because the display is labeled "Battery", most people incorrectly believe it is showing always battery voltage. Really, it should be labeled "Alternator" or "Charging" or "Electrical" when the bike is running (and "Battery" when it is not running).
-
i check battery voltages with a multimeter every month (after shutting off engine for 6-8 hours), showed voltages above 12.7v.
dash showed 12v+ when bike is switched on (but before engine is started). cleaned up all the battery connections, multiple times.
but yet, the engine had a hard time starting. loads of hesitation when starting, and there was a few times that the engine just stopped dead before turning again.
replaced the battery, and everything is working perfectly.
i think a battery load tester would be more accurate in telling you the state of the battery.
The problem is that batteries can fail and still show a 12.x V surface charge. Sometimes that voltage can remain even with a smaller load (like the few amps the dash and tail-lamp place). But the second a large load is placed on the battery (like the starter), it can't deliver the current and the voltage crashes. This is why the only way to really know if a battery is good or bad is to place a large load on it while measuring current and voltage. This is what they do with those battery testers at shops- the machines contain a huge resistor that can dissipate 100AMPS or more. You can get a small version for surprisingly cheap now. Check this out ($25, small, and great ratings):
http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-BT-100-Battery-Load-Tester/dp/B000AMBOI0 (http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-BT-100-Battery-Load-Tester/dp/B000AMBOI0)
-
When a battery shows good voltage when not loaded, but immediately drops when loaded, it's usually because the battery has an internal fracture in the links between the cells. The fracture "heals" under light load, but reopens immediately when loaded.
Typically this happens at the weld between adjacent cells.
Only fix is a new battery.
-
Yep... and then he surmised that because it was not showing the "usual" 14V, that the battery was weaker than normal and that could be why it didn't start. I was letting him know (and others who might read it later) that it is not correct. Because the display is labeled "Battery", most people incorrectly believe it is showing always battery voltage. Really, it should be labeled "Alternator" or "Charging" or "Electrical" when the bike is running (and "Battery" when it is not running).
I understood your point and concur/understand the difference. At the same time, a 12V battery is what it is and it's a little surprising to me that the starter motor draws so much to turn that monster motor over, but hey, I guess I'll just have to get used to the idea that the battery is just gonna get chewed up molto primo.
Yeah, it would be helpful if the display would read "Alternator" or "Battery" but isn't that why B.F.D. is around, to provide magic farkles that take care of that kinda thing? :)
-
When a battery shows good voltage when not loaded, but immediately drops when loaded, it's usually because the battery has an internal fracture in the links between the cells. The fracture "heals" under light load, but reopens immediately when loaded.
Typically this happens at the weld between adjacent cells.
Only fix is a new battery.
Very useful information. Thank you.
-
Yep, and it can happen to a new battery too :-[
When a battery shows good voltage when not loaded, but immediately drops when loaded, it's usually because the battery has an internal fracture in the links between the cells. The fracture "heals" under light load, but reopens immediately when loaded.
Typically this happens at the weld between adjacent cells.
Only fix is a new battery.
-
Maxtog or any one else don't you think hitting a less than 20 amp M/C battery with a 100 amp tester would kill the battery instantly ?
-
I think that's something that needs to be checked out with the manufacturer of the load tester to be sure. I see comments using it on lawn mowers. Those batteries are pretty small.
-
I don't know how to operate those load testers but don't they have different load settings for differently rated batteries?
-
Maxtog or any one else don't you think hitting a less than 20 amp M/C battery with a 100 amp tester would kill the battery instantly ?
I think you are confusing the capacity of the battery with the maximum draw. I don't know what the inrush current would be on a motorcycle starter for an engine this size, but it is probably at least 100 amps. Inrush is just a very short time (fractions of a second), but the starter will still pull a lot power for the duration it is spinning. It is a huge pull on the battery.
Keep in mind that although the Concours is a motorcycle, it has a big engine- it wasn't that long ago when cars had engines around the same size (1.5 liter Civic, for example). The battery is smaller mostly because there are less electrical accessories than a similar sized car, but the power to crank the engine would likely be very similar.
-
Conrad I have one like this for many years now you flip the switch it loads the battery no adjustments . have never tested M/C battery with this but I do know car and truck type batteries will make the metal case very warm in just a few seconds.
-
Thanks G.
-
Battery came in; it's installed, and the bike fired up right away.
Not sure I like this saddle, however...
-
Battery came in; it's installed, and the bike fired up right away.
BAM!