Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Afm252 on July 15, 2015, 01:01:37 PM
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All, 2009 has 38k miles and I have noticed valve knocking upon start up. Had the valve timing inspected by dealership in Panama City, FL less than 1200 miles ago. Mechanic stated no adjustment was needed. Prior to that the timing had not been adjusted. I now find it hard to believe. Recommendations? I might see if I can fight through it until I get back to Texas next March. A lot of riding to do in between though. Gracias!
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Are you sure it's not a cam chain rattle?
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It sounds as though you have the notorious C-14 start- up rattle. It is not a 'valve knocking' but rather a loose cam chain that strikes the inside of the cam chain well (crankcase) until there is sufficient oil pressure to drive the cam chain tensioner out and tighten up the chain. The only way I know of to get rid of it is to remove the automatic cam chain tensioner and replace it with a manual tensioner.
There is no valve timing adjustment possible on the C-14. The only change in the valve timing occurs on the intake cam and that is not anything that a user or mechanic can change; it is entirely controlled by the bike's ECU.
Brian
All, 2009 has 38k miles and I have noticed valve knocking upon start up. Had the valve timing inspected by dealership in Panama City, FL less than 1200 miles ago. Mechanic stated no adjustment was needed. Prior to that the timing had not been adjusted. I now find it hard to believe. Recommendations? I might see if I can fight through it until I get back to Texas next March. A lot of riding to do in between though. Gracias!
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It sounds as though you have the notorious C-14 start- up rattle. It is not a 'valve knocking' but rather a loose cam chain that strikes the inside of the cam chain well (crankcase) until there is sufficient oil pressure to drive the cam chain tensioner out and tighten up the chain. The only way I know of to get rid of it is to remove the automatic cam chain tensioner and replace it with a manual tensioner.
There is no valve timing adjustment possible on the C-14. The only change in the valve timing occurs on the intake cam and that is not anything that a user or mechanic can change; it is entirely controlled by the bike's ECU.
Brian
'Nuff said..
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No it's not. We haven't even gone through one page yet.
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No it's not. We haven't even gone through one page yet.
Ok then.
Have you tried using synthetic oil? ???
Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. ::)
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How many replies makes a page?
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Not sure. Personally I think it's magic.
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[in the background.... "Down Kirby, DOWN!"]
Youse guize are lucky I have been able to keep the little fella' at bay- you know he does not go for KiPass bashing.... even when it is disguised as a valve timing thread.
:rotflmao:
To the original poster: Don't mind these guys, they are just bored and trying to kick up some dust. Trust me- it really IS a well known situation on all C-14's: when you start them, they sound like a tin can full of steel marbles rattling for about three to five seconds.
Brian
How many replies makes a page?
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Real men's bikes rattle.. None of that smooth starting for me. That's for wimps.
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Real men's bikes rattle.. None of that smooth starting for me. That's for wimps.
There's a Harley joke in there somewhere.... 8)
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Harleys do NOT sound like steel marbles (or ball bearings for some of us ;) ) in a tin can. Both of mine sound like 2 skeletons fornicating in a 55 gallon drum.
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1) it's not the "valve timing" or ignition timing, either.
2) as clearly stated cam chain adjusters are rattley on initial start up.
3) the single WORST thing you could do with any engine exhibiting gas knock / detonation is to "fight through it"... your pistons won't allow that to happen for very long. HTH, Steve
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All, 2009 has 38k miles and I have noticed valve knocking upon start up. Had the valve timing inspected by dealership in Panama City, FL less than 1200 miles ago. Mechanic stated no adjustment was needed. Prior to that the timing had not been adjusted. I now find it hard to believe. Recommendations? I might see if I can fight through it until I get back to Texas next March. A lot of riding to do in between though. Gracias!
So if I read between the lines and inject some common thought.....
The valve clearances were checked and said to be okay?
You only hear the noise upon initial start up and it goes away shortly thereafter? (as in a second or two?) or does it last significantly longer...
because your posting leaves a lot to be desired in the way of information that is clear and concise, let alone accurate use of terminology....
yeah yeah yeah I know you guys want to derail the thread with tires and oil and innuendo of sexual exploits (part of what I like about this place...the last part)and I kick it back to something more useful (to the OP anyways), now carry on with how she rattles and bucks when you first start her...
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So if I read between the lines and inject some common thought.....
The valve clearances were checked and said to be okay?
You only hear the noise upon initial start up and it goes away shortly thereafter? (as in a second or two?) or does it last significantly longer...
because your posting leaves a lot to be desired in the way of information that is clear and concise, let alone accurate use of terminology....
yeah yeah yeah I know you guys want to derail the thread with tires and oil and innuendo of sexual exploits (part of what I like about this place...the last part)and I kick it back to something more useful (to the OP anyways), now carry on with how she rattles and bucks when you first start her...
;D There you go again.... :rotflmao:
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Ok then.
Have you tried using synthetic oil? ???
Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. ::)
The other forum has 2 oil threads running concurrently- just sayin' those guys seem to know how to have fun.
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Another forum? That knows how to have fun? Pray tell, where is it located? ;)
I used to participate in another Kawasaki based forum but I learned my lesson and moved on; I now associate here and on the local BMW group (to which I also belong).... nice folks, well- run forums and not full of haters / megalomaniacs / haters (yep, said 'haters' twice but only because I though three time would be excessive.... ;) ;D).
Brian
The other forum has 2 oil threads running concurrently- just sayin' those guys seem to know how to have fun.
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Another forum? That knows how to have fun? Pray tell, where is it located? ;)
I used to participate in another Kawasaki based forum but I learned my lesson and moved on; I now associate here and on the local BMW group (to which I also belong).... nice folks, well- run forums and not full of haters / megalomaniacs / haters (yep, said 'haters' twice but only because I though three time would be excessive.... ;) ;D).
Brian
You and I seem to be on the same page- probably something to do with our vintage. I occasionally wander over there to amuse myself, or if I'm bored.
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Harleys do NOT sound like steel marbles (or ball bearings for some of us ;) ) in a tin can. Both of mine sound like 2 skeletons fornicating in a 55 gallon drum.
I think they sound like horribly mistuned lawn mowers, usually with a rusted off muffler.
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It's all perception. I'd prefer to go to a demolition derby or an oval dirt track than a Formula One race. Different strokes..
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I am happy :banana we're on page 2.
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not on my browser. It's still page 1 (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/rant.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
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Feel free to use the dancing banana when it goes to two.
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All, 2009 has 38k miles and I have noticed valve knocking upon start up. Had the valve timing inspected by dealership in Panama City, FL less than 1200 miles ago. Mechanic stated no adjustment was needed. Prior to that the timing had not been adjusted. I now find it hard to believe. Recommendations? I might see if I can fight through it until I get back to Texas next March. A lot of riding to do in between though. Gracias!
did the dealer mechanic really check them? did you watch him?
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don't mind me...I trust a 'possum named Veronica more than a dealership ;D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/Connie%2014/blue/veronica.jpg%201%20of%201.jpg)
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did the dealer mechanic really check them? did you watch him?
I would have requested a Shim Map to be filled out AND to look at that Shim Map before putting the bike back together.
I bet the gaps were within spec but all on the tight side.
If your paying someone to go in there and adjust the valves, adjust them to the max spec and to not say:" Yup, looks good."
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don't mind me...I trust a 'possum named Veronica more than a dealership ;D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/Connie%2014/blue/veronica.jpg%201%20of%201.jpg)
Hold on, hold on! That is an AirHawk on that there "comfortable" Kawasaki Touring seat! Now, is it really comfortable for long distances, or have you even tried it on a long ride without the AirHawk? >:( :battle:
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I asked the same question in a pm. He said a airhawk makes any good seat better, especially on the 500 + mile days.
I would love to test ride one of those seats, minus the airhawk.
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Thank you for the info. Chain makes sense, and you have been around...
I am out of my home turf here in FL so trust has to be gained.
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My 2008 w/32K makes the same terrible noise at startup. It does sound exactly like a cam chain rattling around for about half a second, so I don't worry about it.
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I asked the same question in a pm. He said a airhawk makes any good seat better, especially on the 500 + mile days.
I would love to test ride one of those seats, minus the airhawk.
I know, but I never wanted to sped money on a aftermarket seat, only to need to spend more money to slap an AirHawk onto it in order to make it comfortable. Most of my long distance riding involves 750+ mile days so I like to be comfortable too, but I would hope an aftermarket seat wouldn't require the use of an AirHawk. I have a Sargent and a Corbin and I can do 800 miles on either one. I have some issues but I would rather the manufacturer of the seat make a comfortable seat than have to add something to it.
AirHawks are great though. I was just giving Steve a hard time.
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OFFTOPIC:
Yep, I have not found anything (saddle, saddle cover, saddle pad) that rivals an AirHawk. There really is not any magic involved, it is just a simple fact that the air- filled cells can conform to any shape and spread out the support- which is exactly what they claim, their cushions eliminate 'hot spots' of pressure. And the shape of our.... er, butts, varies with clothing, even something like a wallet in a back pocket (for example: you are riding your new BMW home and your wallet is much, much thinner than it used to be.... an AirHawk will compensate automatically).
AirHawks are expensive as saddle cushions go, and they are not attractive IMO but they are one of the most functional parts of or on my bike. And I know I cannot spend more than an hour or a bit less riding on a Corbin without significant discomfort; I learned this lesson all over again once when my AirHawk sprung a leak while I was four hours from home :-( On long trips, I carry a spare AirHawk (seriously) because I know I could could not finish the ride without it.
Brian
I asked the same question in a pm. He said a airhawk makes any good seat better, especially on the 500 + mile days.
I would love to test ride one of those seats, minus the airhawk.
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OFFTOPIC:
Yep, I have not found anything (saddle, saddle cover, saddle pad) that rivals an AirHawk. There really is not any magic involved, it is just a simple fact that the air- filled cells can conform to any shape and spread out the support- which is exactly what they claim, their cushions eliminate 'hot spots' of pressure. And the shape of our.... er, butts, varies with clothing, even something like a wallet in a back pocket (for example: you are riding your new BMW home and your wallet is much, much thinner than it used to be.... an AirHawk will compensate automatically).
AirHawks are expensive as saddle cushions go, and they are not attractive IMO but they are one of the most functional parts of or on my bike. And I know I cannot spend more than an hour or a bit less riding on a Corbin without significant discomfort; I learned this lesson all over again once when my AirHawk sprung a leak while I was four hours from home :-( On long trips, I carry a spare AirHawk (seriously) because I know I could could not finish the ride without it.
Brian
I agree with all you say Brain. AirHawks do a great job. The stock Corbin is almost perfect for one too, with its big dish.
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OP, drop $50-$60 and get the manual chain tensioner. And put premium gas in the thing. Always.
It will be a whole lot quieter. A tank of lousy 87 octane in the middle of BFE (which is in West Texas apparently) reinforced the second point.