Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: nacademus on June 04, 2015, 08:27:46 PM
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I know this sounds totally noobish, but I changed my oil expecting to reuse my oil filter afterwards.
I got the bike late in the season last year. I changed the oil as soon as I got it and put hardly any miles on it. ~1500mi
I changed the oil to start the season this year but elected NOT to change my filter.
Let's say I want to put new filter in after the fact. If I remove the oil filter will all my oil come out?
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No, hardly any runs out when you're on the centerstand. I just did that very thing
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Wouldn't imagine a filter well below full oil level and right by the drain plug not making a big mess if removed with a full sump. Not that I'd ever do that (not changing oil filter, regardless of miles on the oil), but good to know it doesn't ;D.
I have a related debate going on: with only 400 miles on the oil (new bike), if I drain it cold, would it be any sludge at the bottom of the pan with such few miles? :o I've never done that, but was wondering if it's okay with the first oil change and so little miles. MUCH nicer to work around a cool engine. However, have read it's a b*tch to remove the oil filter... which becomes less difficult to remove with a hot engine. Guess I have my answer. He he.
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One, I would not drain it cold. Two, I would never not change the filter when draining the oil. It's not that expensive and it's good insurance on the engine. However, it's your bike to do with what you want.
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I've seen lots of guys here that like to change their oil at the start of the new riding season. Which means that the old dirty oil has sat in their bikes over the winter months...
It is WAY better to change the oil when you put the bike up for the winter so that you have clean oil sitting in the sump instead of dirty contaminated oil.
YMMV
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Back to the original question, I changed my oil and filter and then had second thoughts on the filter I had chosen. I then switched them, on the centerstand, and lost no more than 2-3 ozs. I was prepared for a mess but it didn't happen.
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I've seen lots of guys here that like to change their oil at the start of the new riding season. Which means that the old dirty oil has sat in their bikes over the winter months...
It is WAY better to change the oil when you put the bike up for the winter so that you have clean oil sitting in the sump instead of dirty contaminated oil.
YMMV
+ 1
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I've seen lots of guys here that like to change their oil at the start of the new riding season. Which means that the old dirty oil has sat in their bikes over the winter months...
It is WAY better to change the oil when you put the bike up for the winter so that you have clean oil sitting in the sump instead of dirty contaminated oil.
YMMV
I don't like to have "dirty contaminated oil" in my engine at any time. If it needs changing, change it regardless of the season. I always change the filter when changing the oil. As inexpensive as they are compared to the price of oil these days, it seems pointless to dirty up your nice clean oil with a dirty filter. Kinda like putting on dirty underwear after taking a shower. Just doesn't seem right to me.
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Back to the original question, I changed my oil and filter and then had second thoughts on the filter I had chosen. I then switched them, on the centerstand, and lost no more than 2-3 ozs. I was prepared for a mess but it didn't happen.
In a pinch the Kawasaki OEM filter is what came on the bike. But I like the KN-303. They are like $8 at Cycle Gear if you have one nearby. I think the Kawasaki is close to $20 at my local dealer.
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To answer your question: no, the oil filter is located well above the crankcase oil level and removing the filter will NOT cause any oil in the crankcase oil to drain. The only oil that will be spilled is about 1/2 of the oil already in the filter (it is full of oil even when the bike is not running).
Brian
I know this sounds totally noobish, but I changed my oil expecting to reuse my oil filter afterwards.
I got the bike late in the season last year. I changed the oil as soon as I got it and put hardly any miles on it. ~1500mi
I changed the oil to start the season this year but elected NOT to change my filter.
Let's say I want to put new filter in after the fact. If I remove the oil filter will all my oil come out?
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To answer your question: no, the oil filter is located well above the crankcase oil level and removing the filter will NOT cause any oil in the crankcase oil to drain.
We now know from 2 folks almost no oil flows out of the oil filter when sump is full. But oil filter is BELOW the oil level by quite a bit. Look at it. The sight glass is quite higher than the oil filter; that's what I meant anyway.
And yes, +3 on leaving dirty oil when putting bike away for the season. If you're going to change the oil anyway, better sooner than later.
Finally, I bought OEM oil filters for $8, if I remember correctly. They're about $12 list, I believe. Bought them from partzilla.com, but there're several other dealers that sell at 20 to 25% off (smart folks ;)).
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As far as the level of the oil. I think it depends if it has been run or not. It is a dry sump I believe. Correct me if I am wrong but there isn't oil in the sight glass until the engine is run. So I assume no oil will come out when you change the filter on a cold bike, but if it is warm there may be more. Just a thought.
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There is oil showing in the sight glass when the engine is not running. If yours is not showing oil I suggest you put some in. It's not a dry sump.
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I believe the oil filter central fitting (which is where the oil enters the filter) is below the crankcase oil level. No matter though because any engine with an oil filter is a positive pressure lubed type, which means oil is forced through the filter via a pump driven by the engine itself. As the pump is positive displacement, no oil will flow through it when it is not turning even if the input level of oil is well above the filter input. This is easy enough to test by anyone with a C-14; next time when changing the oil, first remove the filter and let it drain for a while and see if the oil flow does not stop.... it will, showing that the motor oil in the crankcase will not flow out of the filter attachment point.
Again, there is no problem changing the oil filter without changing the crankcase oil. There will be some oil loss but only what was trapped in the filter, not any amount of what is sitting in the engine. And the truly frugal could go so far as to drain almost all the oil from the filter and return that to the crankcase. ::) ;D
Brian
We now know from 2 folks almost no oil flows out of the oil filter when sump is full. But oil filter is BELOW the oil level by quite a bit. Look at it. The sight glass is quite higher than the oil filter; that's what I meant anyway.
<snip>
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Looking at the sight glass to check oil level is only useful when the engine is stopped; when running, the oil level will drop below the sight glass and make it appear to be low on oil.
The C-14 uses a wet sump system, uses the crankcase as the sump or 'container' for the motor oil, and the sight glass literally allows us to view the height of the oil in the crankcase- exactly the same way a measuring cup is used to note how high the fluid is in the cup as a way of measuring how much fluid there is in the container.
No crankcase oil will drain from the filter regardless of engine temperature. It is usually recommended that motor oil be changed when the engine is up to running temp. so that any solid crud (technical term) is suspended in the oil and drained when the oil is drained. Otherwise, it does not make any difference if the oil and / or filter are changed when the engine is warm or not.
Brian
As far as the level of the oil. I think it depends if it has been run or not. It is a dry sump I believe. Correct me if I am wrong but there isn't oil in the sight glass until the engine is run. So I assume no oil will come out when you change the filter on a cold bike, but if it is warm there may be more. Just a thought.
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Hilarious thread...
Wet sump...oil pump keeps the oil from leaking out...changing oil without the filter is false economy...better to run synthetic and change the filter but not the oil...seriously...I always change both, BTW...with the engine warm to flush out as much crud as possible...some folks have more trouble with the filter...no problem for me so far...I crank it on a little past hand tight too...reminder to oil the filter gasket before you install...
Purolator PSL14610...designed for synthetic oil, extended drain intervals, and all that. About $10.
I went 12,000 miles on Rotella T6 and PSL14610 that one time...relax, it was all in two weeks. Oil looked pretty great...Actually.
Dat
Sax
Man
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Thanks everyone. I'll spin on a new filter tomorrow and be done with it. 8)
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12000 on Rotella T6, WOW! I would love to see an oil analysis on that oil.
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Boy am I glad I did not jump right in and suggest that the OP turn his bike upside down first to prevent that oil from running out of the filter hole.
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Another epic oil thead. They never disappoint.
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It's not a dry sump.
It is if you don't have enough oil in it.
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I should have answered my own question here instead of subjecting myself to this. I didn't intend on making "Another epic oil thread"-nor did I intend to incite bickering or snide remarks among other forum members. There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.
For anyone who has ever pondered the repercussions of replacing a filter while filled with oil, only about a half-cup of oil dribbled out after the filter was spun off on my vehicle. I replaced the stock filter with a Purolator PSL14610.
Thanks everyone that helped.
Here is the diagram I used to postulate my understandings prior to trying the removal.
(http://i.imgur.com/0mNQUel.png)
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"Oil coller"
lol
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It is if you don't have enough oil in it.
:battle: ;)
I detected no abnormal snideness nor bickering in this thread. This is a normal set of replies as far as I'm concerned. We make fun of each other and generally have a good time for the most part.
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Yeah, it can be a rough crowd. ;D I do not think any of it was directed at you really, it is just that you said the magic words.... which are usually any words in English at all. Sometimes I think things were better back when the Internet was printed on newspaper and rebuttals were in the form of 'letters to the editor', which were printed days or weeks later and never, ever on the front page.
But on the bright side, you got a new filter on your bike, a bunch of people had fun (or at least what passes for fun I guess) and the Earth got a bunch more rotations behind it. And on a personal note, I think a few strategically placed 'Easy Boys!' would have gone a long way to making this a better thread (read: it would have made me chuckle).
Brian
I should have answered my own question here instead of subjecting myself to this. I didn't intend on making "Another epic oil thread"-nor did I intend to incite bickering or snide remarks among other forum members. There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.
<snip>
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I used to postulate
I still do, if the mood strikes. 8)
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What happens if I remove my oil filter when the bike is still full of oil?
oil spill.
(http://thumbnails-visually.netdna-ssl.com/the-worst-oil-spills-in-history_50290a8eec0eb_w1500.jpg)
(http://www.nationofchange.org/2015/wp-content/uploads/BPoilspill033115.jpg)
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Working in the oil business, I have fears of those pics.
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:battle: ;)
I shall consider myself duly publicly flogged. Even though Gibbs considers it a sign of weakness, I apologize...no rudeness was intended. :chugbeer:
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:)