Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: gilio76 on May 27, 2015, 07:58:32 AM
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since I started using the full 5 Qts of oil on the C14 as suggested in the manual it feels much smoother when shifting gears, better engine temperature highly recommended full 5 QTS 10w40 when engine is dry and filter removal and new filter also FRAM filter PH6017A you can get from ANY AUTOZONE FOR less than $6 also motorcycle regular oil 10w40 works or full shynthetic works your choice. I personally use synthetic
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welcome to the forum.
for >103,000 miles "Rotella T6" oil (4.5-5 quarts per change) and a purolater filter has served me well on mine, too
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Thank you
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since I started using the full 5 Qts of oil on the C14 as suggested in the manual it feels much smoother when shifting gears, better engine temperature highly recommended full 5 QTS 10w40 when engine is dry and filter removal and new filter also FRAM filter PH6017A you can get from ANY AUTOZONE FOR less than $6 also motorcycle regular oil 10w40 works or full shynthetic works your choice. I personally use synthetic
Welcome gilio. Since your engine will never be dry again 4.5 qts should be enough.
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5 quarts is overfull.
A Fram oil filter? :o
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5 quarts is overfull.
A Fram oil filter? :o
+2 You are better off with the oem, Fram filters have a reputation for poor quality
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21883344-Tech-Review-The-Long-Waited-FRAM-OIL-FILTER-REVIEW (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21883344-Tech-Review-The-Long-Waited-FRAM-OIL-FILTER-REVIEW)
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X2! I stopped using orange filters about 10 years ago after hearing how crummy they were! OEM filters on the bikes, and Purolators in the cages...
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welcome to the forum.
for >103,000 miles "Rotella T6" oil (4.5-5 quarts per change) and a purolater filter has served me well on mine, too
I too use this combo the Purolater isn't recommended for motorcycles but I wanted to live on the edge and see if anything can test the mad PAWAH of KIPASS
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Welcome to the forum.
I think that 4.5-4.7 is the recommended amount. I wouldn't overfill.
Is your bike on the center stand in the picture?
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I don't care what filter you use, you overfilled the system by a pint...
man, is oil changing that difficult?????
the sightglass is checked with both tires on the ground, not on centerstand.
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There's a sightglass?
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There's a sightglass?
Yeah, it is that thing that is impossible to see while sitting on the bike trying to keep it level (and no, I can't get mine on the centerstand). I will take my phone and reach down and get a photo of it so I can tell the level, if having to do it alone.
Generally it is not a good idea to overfill. As for filters, I discovered the K&N with the hex nut and I am sold on it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E2CVIS (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E2CVIS) it is very rare to see anything with that many reviews (342) on Amazon have a nearly PERFECT score (4.8).
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Yeah, it is that thing that is impossible to see while sitting on the bike trying to keep it level (and no, I can't get mine on the centerstand). /snip...
Max:
Why can't you get yours on the center stand? That would seem to be the primary problem, especially where tire, brake, oil maintenance is concerned. If you solve your center stand challenge, you may find that many other things are more easily addressed.
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Like world peace?
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Yeah, it is that thing that is impossible to see while sitting on the bike trying to keep it level (and no, I can't get mine on the centerstand). I will take my phone and reach down and get a photo of it so I can tell the level, if having to do it alone.
Generally it is not a good idea to overfill. As for filters, I discovered the K&N with the hex nut and I am sold on it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E2CVIS (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E2CVIS) it is very rare to see anything with that many reviews (342) on Amazon have a nearly PERFECT score (4. 8) .
We have a center stand?
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Max: Why can't you get yours on the center stand? That would seem to be the primary problem, especially where tire, brake, oil maintenance is concerned. If you solve your center stand challenge, you may find that many other things are more easily addressed.
My bike is lowered, so getting it on the center stand alone is extremely difficult. With help from someone else I can do it, by backing the bike onto a 1" or so board first.
Amazing what difference an inch can make :)
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So many ways to go with this.... :rotflmao:
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So many ways to go with this.... :rotflmao:
I know, I left it wiiiiiiiiiiiide open for people to go crazy....
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Amount of oil depends on how much was drained, so there's NO specific amount to fill with. Get it to the top mark AFTER running the engine and letting it sit. And yes, on the centerstand; that's what it's for too (if somebody doesn't believe that, check the difference :o). It should take anywhere from 4-1/2 to 5 qts indeed. I drain oil in my vehicles overnight, so I believe mine will take 5 too, or very close to that. But I always leave 1/2-qt out until starting the engine, so I don't accidentally overfill it... but nothing an oil extractor can't fix if that happens, so no biggie ;D. Finally, can't believe this bike takes 5 qts; that's awesome; the more the better. It's the same amount the 550HP GTR with 2 big turbos takes; unbelievable for Nissan to only allow that paltry amount. Anyway, have my first trip on Friday, and will be changing the oil for the first time over the weekend, even if I don't get to the magical 500 miles. Have a good one folks.
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Like world peace?
^^^ (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/dblthumb2.gif)
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Amount of oil depends on how much was drained, so there's NO specific amount to fill with. Get it to the top mark AFTER running the engine and letting it sit. And yes, on the centerstand; that's what it's for too (if somebody doesn't believe that, check the difference :o ). It should take anywhere from 4-1/2 to 5 qts indeed. I drain oil in my vehicles overnight, so I believe mine will take 5 too, or very close to that. But I always leave 1/2-qt out until starting the engine, so I don't accidentally overfill it... but nothing an oil extractor can't fix if that happens, so no biggie ;D . Finally, can't believe this bike takes 5 qts; that's awesome; the more the better. It's the same amount the 550HP GTR with 2 big turbos takes; unbelievable for Nissan to only allow that paltry amount. Anyway, have my first trip on Friday, and will be changing the oil for the first time over the weekend, even if I don't get to the magical 500 miles. Have a good one folks.
5 quarts totally dry.
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I drain oil in my vehicles overnight.
;) glad to see another member who doesn't understand the concept of a 5 minute oil change- mat
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I don't care what filter you use, you overfilled the system by a pint...
man, is oil changing that difficult?????
the sightglass is checked with both tires on the ground, not on centerstand.
There's no need to even check the sightglass. Drain the oil (w/filter removed), put the plug back in along with the new filter and poor in 4.5 quarts of oil and you're done.
5 quarts is for a DRY engine. Do I have to explain dry? ;)
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There's no need to even check the sightglass. Drain the oil (w/filter removed), put the plug back in along with the new filter and poor in 4.5 quarts of oil and you're done.
5 quarts is for a DRY engine. Do I have to explain dry?
No, but somebody needs the explain a sound reason to drain the oil overnight. A bit OCD?
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No, but somebody needs the explain a sound reason to drain the oil overnight. A bit OCD?
It's the only way to get that pesky last half teaspoon out! ::)
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There's no need to even check the sightglass. Drain the oil (w/filter removed), put the plug back in along with the new filter and poor in 4.5 quarts of oil and you're done.
5 quarts is for a DRY engine. Do I have to explain dry?
As in Martini?
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There's no need to even check the sightglass. Drain the oil (w/filter removed), put the plug back in along with the new filter and poor in 4.5 quarts of oil and you're done.
5 quarts is for a DRY engine. Do I have to explain dry? ;)
like I said, some people claim to be experts on stuff.... maybe if the factory service manual was available for the 2015 models they could actually read those figures, so you may need to explain it to those people...
personally, the sightglass is only there for visual verification during the periods btween oil changes, that the level is adequate....
the correct figure is in writing, and I can verify from all the oil changes I have done since 7/7/07, that the figure is correct.
to blindly dump MORE oil than that figure tells is a bit silly...less maybe, but never more.
for giggles... dry means " totally devoid of any oil, I.e. a completely rebuilt engine, or new engine, that never had oil, thus the oil cooler and oil passages are all empty.
that's where the extra pint ends up.
and oil is checked with the bike sitting on the wheels, on a level surface, and held in a vertical manner... but that's outlined in the manual also... I believe its in the owners manual also, but nobody reads those either, because they all owned soo many bikes they know more than the manual...
draining the oil on the centerstand works, as the oil pan is now sloped forward towards the drain hole....
but unless all you do is run the engine in the garage, with it on the centerstand, that sightglass reading will be showing too full when the wheels are actually on the ground. So by all means DO compare it, makes sense to me....
kinda like whining because the tire pressure sensors say you have a different amount of air than you do when checked with a gauge...
ride safe and have a nice weekend.
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Ya' slay me Rich, ya' really does. ;D
As to the oil, it is merely a reservoir and the upper level means little as long as it is not so overfull that the crank passes through the oil when the engine is running, and the level is not so low that there is any danger of the oil pick-up sucking any air (being uncovered even momentarily during heavy braking, acceleration).
'Course there is always the problem of the utterly, perfectly full but not overfull crankcase on a motorcycle when the front wheel lifts off the ground. One would have to think the crankcase oil level would be a bit too much at the rear (transmission, output shaft / gears) and a bit too little at the front. ;)
Brian
like I said, some people claim to be experts on stuff.... <snipped expert stuff....>
ride safe and have a nice weekend.
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:-X
I'll just sit back and watch... It's so tempting though... ::)
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You guys and your quarts...lol.
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Anybody ever check to see if the gen 2 C14's drain more oil than the gen1 when during an oil change?
With the bike on the center stand, the front drain plug on the Gen 2 might let a few more tablespoons of oil out...
Not that it matters, just thinking out loud of course...
One bike has a vertical plug at the back, and the other has a horizontal plug at the front.
I've had both, but never checked.
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>:( And what's wrong with quarts? ;)
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>:( And what's wrong with quarts? ;)
Hahaha...it's one of the few units of measure you almost never hear in Canada...lol., unless someone is talking about a quart of rum or whiskey...lol.
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Well, back off to the next 'legitimate' reference- the pint. "A pint's a pound, the whole world 'round". Except in the places that have 20 ounces in a pint such as the UK et. al. And the US et. al, where it is close but not quite right either. Of course a liter of water (pure water) weighs a kilogram.... mostly, sort of, kind of, depending on temperature.
But in the end, that is why there are lines on the sight glass' of motorcycle side cases, right? ;)
Brian
You guys and your quarts...lol.
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We buy our whiskey by the liter- usually 0.75 liter or 1.75 liter. At least Scotch Whiskey.
Brian
Hahaha...it's one of the few units of measure you almost never hear in Canada...lol., unless someone is talking about a quart of rum or whiskey...lol.
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We buy our whiskey by the liter- usually 0.75 liter or 1.75 liter. At least Scotch Whiskey.
Brian
I am old school-----metric or not, it will always be a 40 pounder for me! :chugbeer:
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Ya' slay me Rich, ya' really does. ;D
hey, I'll be here all week, be sure to tip your waitress....
8) 8)
my purpose in life has always been to interject humor, and some learning, into everything I touch...
glad its working...
;D
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like I said, some people claim to be experts on stuff.... maybe if the factory service manual was available for the 2015 models they could actually read those figures, so you may need to explain it to those people...
personally, the sightglass is only there for visual verification during the periods btween oil changes, that the level is adequate....
the correct figure is in writing, and I can verify from all the oil changes I have done since 7/7/07, that the figure is correct.
to blindly dump MORE oil than that figure tells is a bit silly...less maybe, but never more.
for giggles... dry means " totally devoid of any oil, I.e. a completely rebuilt engine, or new engine, that never had oil, thus the oil cooler and oil passages are all empty.
that's where the extra pint ends up.
and oil is checked with the bike sitting on the wheels, on a level surface, and held in a vertical manner... but that's outlined in the manual also... I believe its in the owners manual also, but nobody reads those either, because they all owned soo many bikes they know more than the manual...
draining the oil on the centerstand works, as the oil pan is now sloped forward towards the drain hole....
but unless all you do is run the engine in the garage, with it on the centerstand, that sightglass reading will be showing too full when the wheels are actually on the ground. So by all means DO compare it, makes sense to me....
kinda like whining because the tire pressure sensors say you have a different amount of air than you do when checked with a gauge...
ride safe and have a nice weekend.
:goodpost: :hail: :
I'd hate it if everyone didn't read this.
:chugbeer: :grouphug:
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Yeah- with me, it is the humor. If something amuses me, then all is well and whatever follows is a no- cost extra.
Now I have to go post in the bear spray thread..... :-)
Brian
hey, I'll be here all week, be sure to tip your waitress....
8) 8)
my purpose in life has always been to interject humor, and some learning, into everything I touch...
glad its working...
;D
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but somebody needs the explain a sound reason to drain the oil overnight. A bit OCD?
Engine is nice and cool when I finish the job :o. Never leave oil too long that I have to extract the most old oil out of there... but it's a nice side effect ;). I only use the bike for trips, so it always sits for weeks or even months between trips. No rush to finish such a maintenance job the same day.
By the way, had to flush the final drive 3 times until all the crap came out. But it's done now, ready to roll. Just need to go for a ride to heat up the engine oil and do that next. And hopefully not have a hard time removing the factory oil filter, but I know it'll eventually succumb to my plier-type wrench.
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Engine is nice and cool when I finish the job :o. Never leave oil too long that I have to extract the most old oil out of there... but it's a nice side effect ;). I only use the bike for trips, so it always sits for weeks or even months between trips. No rush to finish such a maintenance job the same day.
By the way, had to flush the final drive 3 times until all the crap came out. But it's done now, ready to roll. Just need to go for a ride to heat up the engine oil and do that next. And hopefully not have a hard time removing the factory oil filter, but I know it'll eventually succumb to my plier-type wrench.
Flush the final drive? What did you use for this?
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Normally one would use something like this for flushing the rear end...
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You can't have enough tools in the tool kit.
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Normally one would use something like this for flushing the rear end...
:rotflmao: :chugbeer:
Good job.
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Normally one would use something like this for flushing the rear end...
Preparing for a colonoscopy or just a typical weekend?
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Hmmmm.... not sure how you found that photo so fast. Wait, I really do not want to know.
:rotflmao:
Brian
Normally one would use something like this for flushing the rear end...
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Flush the final drive? What did you use for this?
By 'flush' I meant a fill and drain operation. I used Mobil1 5/30 I had laying around (very similar) to do this twice. Once full and fill plug installed, rolled the tire forward vigorously many times, then fully drain the fluid again. Cheaper than the $40/qt Castrol Differential SAF-XO 75/90 I used for the final fill. That's the best differential oil by far IMO, and what BMW uses. I tried Mobil1 75/90 on the K1300S I had, to save some $$$, and it leaked. So bought the Castrol, and no issues. A quart is good for 5 fluid changes, so not that expensive after all. Had 2 left, and now one. Will change the fluid annually, along with the engine oil. Oh, and also installed magnetic drain plugs (goldplug.com. Their new S/S design is great) on both engine and final drive; cheap insurance IMO. You should have seen the crap (metal dust) that came out of the final drive, with only 400 miles on the clock. Glad I did it this early. Hope this helps.
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for the majority of our members safety, I will reflect back to when this bike came out, there were a few people that installed "goldplug" magnetic drainplugs... and also a few people that experienced catastrophic results when they attempted to torque them to the spcs in the book... they tended to shear off, and result in a painfull extraction process....
seems that goldplug didn't do their homework, and offered a generic plug, that was drilled just a bit too deep for gluing those magnets in, and as a result, reduced the cross section of said plug at boltup to less than half the metal needed to prevent them from breaking....
so choose wisely, sometimes things seem cool, but they really ain't...
oh, and the majority of the "crap" in that discolored drive lube is the moly assembly lube the use when they put it together....it used for 2 reasons, first, its a super lube for high pressure gears that are fresh.
Secondly, they use it in lieu of the old "white lead" paste to visually see the contact surfaces of the gears in mesh, and shim the pack accordingly.
just sharing this.
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Two - count 'em TWO! - oil threads going at the same time !!! How cool is that?!?!?
I use the Mobil synth rear drive goop...change with each engine oil change (hey, I have friends with BMWs...), and it always comes out looking pretty good. Typical change interval 8000 miles. Fill quantity determined by the sight glass. Drain, fill to the middle of the glass, run, fill again near the top of the glass. Usually one whole gallon first, then a little from another container for the top off. No measuring. 109,000 miles so far.
Dat
Sax
Man
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I use the Mobil synth rear drive goop...change with each engine oil change (hey, I have friends with BMWs...), and it always comes out looking pretty good.
Glad to know our Connies don't leak with that fluid. A LOT cheaper than the BMW Castrol I'm using (leftover, thankfully). And now that there's a magnetic drain plug in there to catch any metal particles, I feel better ;D. Those plugs are very well made; I wouldn't be afraid of putting a crapload of torque on them, but only need very little. Cheap insurance. Have a great weekend ahead gang.
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By 'flush' I meant a fill and drain operation. I used Mobil1 5/30 I had laying around (very similar) to do this twice. Once full and fill plug installed, rolled the tire forward vigorously many times, then fully drain the fluid again. Cheaper than the $40/qt Castrol Differential SAF-XO 75/90 I used for the final fill. That's the best differential oil by far IMO, and what BMW uses. I tried Mobil1 75/90 on the K1300S I had, to save some $$$, and it leaked. So bought the Castrol, and no issues. A quart is good for 5 fluid changes, so not that expensive after all. Had 2 left, and now one. Will change the fluid annually, along with the engine oil. Oh, and also installed magnetic drain plugs (goldplug.com. Their new S/S design is great) on both engine and final drive; cheap insurance IMO. You should have seen the crap (metal dust) that came out of the final drive, with only 400 miles on the clock. Glad I did it this early. Hope this helps.
Mobil 1 leaked and the Castrol didn't and that's an indication of a higher quality oil? ???
IMO flushing the final drive is a total waste of time, but it's your time to waste isn't it?
"$40/qt Castrol Differential SAF-XO 75/90 I used for the final fill. That's the best differential oil by far IMO, and what BMW uses."
How's that oil working out for BMW? ;)
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"$40/qt Castrol Differential SAF-XO 75/90 I used for the final fill. That's the best differential oil by far IMO, and what BMW uses."
How's that oil working out for BMW? ;)
You beat me to it, Conrad.
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Mobil 1 leaked and the Castrol didn't and that's an indication of a higher quality oil? ???
IMO flushing the final drive is a total waste of time, but it's your time to waste isn't it?
"$40/qt Castrol Differential SAF-XO 75/90 I used for the final fill. That's the best differential oil by far IMO, and what BMW uses."
How's that oil working out for BMW? ;)
pretty good from the looks of it....
TASTES JUST LIKE FRIED CHICKEN....MMMMMmmmmmmmm
(http://www.affordablebeemerservices.com/Images/tob2.jpg)
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I made the joke one time that the new final drives for BMW come with lube already in them.... and I said it at a BMW group breakfast. Even those guys thought it was funny- and that right there is kinda' funny, and kinda' pathetic, all at once. A great group of folks (the local BMW groups) but they have partaken of the 'blue and white' Kool Aid.
And for whatever it is worth, I have put on a lot of miles with those folks and never, ever seen a BMW final drive fail. I also have always carried my C-14 fob with me.... coincidence? I think not.... Although truth be told, I was on one thousand mile ride of 80 bikes that had one catastrophic final drive failure, one semi- drive failure (making lots of noise and quite hot but still working) and one pretty nasty engine failure on a brand new K1300GT (sounded like big- end rod failure to me). But all of those were far outside the range of my fob even according to Kirby, the biggest KiPass advocate ever.
I would have put a big OFFTOPIC label at the top of this thread but it was already so pre- ruined that I did not think it necessary. ;)
Brian
<snip>
How's that oil working out for BMW? ;)
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the sightglass is checked with both tires on the ground, not on centerstand.
[/quote]
Do you have an assistant to hold your bike while you check the sight glass with both wheels on the ground? Only way I have of doing it is on my lift or with a front wheel chock, two items that not everybody may have.
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Do you have an assistant to hold your bike while you check the sight glass with both wheels on the ground? Only way I have of doing it is on my lift or with a front wheel chock, two items that not everybody may have.
I think I posted this in the past- if alone, I check mine by keeping the bike balanced while sitting on it, on no stands, and reaching down with my phone and taking a photo of the sight glass. It is a bit tricky, but it does work :)
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Truthfully I never checked mine except on initial fill. It never ever used any oil.
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the sightglass is checked with both tires on the ground, not on centerstand.
Do you have an assistant to hold your bike while you check the sight glass with both wheels on the ground? Only way I have of doing it is on my lift or with a front wheel chock, two items that not everybody may have.
I never use the sight glass, as an indicator of my oil change level, when I do it with a new filter...
I drain, pull filter, install filter, and pour in 4 qt + 15-17 oz.. cap it, and done.. (book says 22 oz. but doesn't explain that some is still retained in oil cooler, and passages..).. after many measurements of drained oil, I settle on the 4Q+ 17oz figure.. and verify it with the site glass.. now I never look..
but, if you "MUST" use the site glass, to make you feel good.. place the bike on the center stand, lift the front tire, and slip a 2 x 4 under it, and verify it's level..(by trying to slip a 2 x 4 under the rear tire..), let it sit, and look at the glass.. pretty easy to make the bike "level" and stable on the center stand..
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You've taken a photo of the sightglass when holding the bike level on the tyres, now take another pic with it on the centerstand.
I'll bet there is near as dammit no difference in oil level. :D
The window on the C10 and C14 has an upper and lower mark that are both near the edges of the window so if you can see the oil level in the window, then it's probably within the acceptable range for level.
If you want to set your oil level to +/-1mm (39.37 Thousandths of an inch) then you either need a different hobby or need to see a shrink :nuts: :rotflmao:
I always do mine on the centerstand and have always done so on every bike that had a centerstand.
The only trick is to do it exactly the same way every time.
Put it on the centrestand with the engine running, and only then shut down the engine.
Walk away and come back 15 mins later to check the oil level.
I had to do the same with the bikes I've owned that used a dipstick (XS500, CB750F2, GS550E, etc.)
If you try to measure the oil level after just shutting down the engine, it will show an incorrect level regardless if the bike has a window or a dipstick.
If you move the bike in any way after shutting down the engine, then it may show an incorrect level.
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You've taken a photo of the sightglass when holding the bike level on the tyres, now take another pic with it on the centerstand.
Because mine is lowered, it is very difficult to get it on the center stand. So difficult, that I avoid ever trying unless I have assistance. And rarely would I have assistance. When on the side stand, the level can show nothing but then be perfect when upright (if I remember correctly).
But you are right that the difference between upright on the ground and upright on the center stand is probably very little.
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If the bike has been lowered then all bets are off. ;D
With lowered forks the front will sit lower and the oil level could show lower in the window, but probably not much lower.
If you only lowered the rear of the bike, then it may read slightly higher than normal but again, the difference is going to be minimal.
Side to side makes a LOT of difference to the level in the window.
That's why I rely on the same position every time (centerstand on level ground).
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If the bike has been lowered then all bets are off. ;D With lowered forks the front will sit lower and the oil level could show lower in the window, but probably not much lower. If you only lowered the rear of the bike, then it may read slightly higher than normal but again, the difference is going to be minimal.
It was lowered properly, which means front and back equally. Otherwise, handling would be greatly affected.
Side to side makes a LOT of difference to the level in the window.
Agreed.