Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: Deziner on March 15, 2015, 08:01:11 PM
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I'm relatively new, no, really new to the Sport/Touring world so this may be a stupid question to many of you but here goes. Which stock bikes will run away from a C14 out on the open road? Not the traxk or the drag strip, but on the Interstate.
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I would think, most of the Big CC Sport bikes would.
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Do you mean higher top end and/or faster acceleration? I'm thinking ZX-14 and Hayabusa of course.
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Those 2 immediately came to mind. I don't even know what big bore sport bikes are out there. With their smaller size and weight, could a CBRxxxRR do it? (600,900, whatever) Please excuse my lack of knowledge in this area, after many years of riding HDs, I know for sure that it doesn't take much of a Sport bike to disappear from an Electra Glide. ???
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... Which stock bikes will run away from a C14 out on the open road? Not the traxk or the drag strip, but on the Interstate.
I was at a scooter shop in Denver on my C-10 a few years back, and a freshly minted squid got me interested in a race.
I told him "the first to arrive at the donut shop on Main and Third".
He said "100 bux and you're on Gramps".
I said "in Billings, Montana".
Rick
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600cc sport bikes are 'snappier' and will outrun the C-14 off the line at or at very low speeds. After that, wind resistance overcomes them and the C-14 will outrun them, especially at highway speeds and beyond. That said, for all its weight, a C-14 will make a surprising show against a 600cc sport bike under any circumstances.
A modern liter (1000 cc) sport bike will outrun a C-14 at any speed but again, at high speeds the difference is not that great due to the C-14's greater displacement. Some of the hotter liter bikes, especially if the rider tucks in, will put significant distance between them and a C-14 at any speeds.
The larger, 'relaxed' sport tourer / sport bikes (ZX 14, Hayabusa) will eat a C-14 for lunch under any / all circumstances.
An aggressive rider on a C-14 will sometimes really surprise a rider of, say, a mildly tuned 1,000 cc bike such as a V-Strom. It helps a lot of the C-14 rider is aware and keeps the RPM much higher than usual; then when 'the game is on', pure displacement will really show up, again even though the C-14 is a heavy bike.
Brian
I'm relatively new, no, really new to the Sport/Touring world so this may be a stupid question to many of you but here goes. Which stock bikes will run away from a C14 out on the open road? Not the traxk or the drag strip, but on the Interstate.
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600cc sport bikes are 'snappier' and will outrun the C-14 off the line at or at very low speeds. After that, wind resistance overcomes them and the C-14 will outrun them, especially at highway speeds and beyond. That said, for all its weight, a C-14 will make a surprising show against a 600cc sport bike under any circumstances.
A modern liter (1000 cc) sport bike will outrun a C-14 at any speed but again, at high speeds the difference is not that great due to the C-14's greater displacement. Some of the hotter liter bikes, especially if the rider tucks in, will put significant distance between them and a C-14 at any speeds.
The larger, 'relaxed' sport tourer / sport bikes (ZX 14, Hayabusa) will eat a C-14 for lunch under any / all circumstances.
An aggressive rider on a C-14 will sometimes really surprise a rider of, say, a mildly tuned 1,000 cc bike such as a V-Strom. It helps a lot of the C-14 rider is aware and keeps the RPM much higher than usual; then when 'the game is on', pure displacement will really show up, again even though the C-14 is a heavy bike.
Brian
I agree with Brian's comments 100% here...
I've been on many spirited rides with all ranges of sport-bikes, and I can say for sure that most modern 600cc RR sport-bikes cannot outrun a C14 on the highway. And what I'm referring to is roll-on speeds from 50mph and above.
I've also done similar roll-ons with 1st and 2nd gen Kawi Z1000's, and they're very similar to the 600cc RR bikes in that range.
If you get into proper liter-bike (1000cc) super-sports.... Kawi ZX10R, GSXR, R1, etc...forget it. They'll walk away from the C14 with ease.
The ZX14 and newer ZX14R bikes...forget them also. They'll leave a C14 like it's parked on the side of the road.
Rem
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. . . after many years of riding HDs, I know for sure that it doesn't take much of a Sport bike to disappear from an Electra Glide. ???
You may not realize it but there is a game played by sport-tourers, 'How many HDs dawdling along in a line can you pass in a single swoop?'.
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And double points if any of them are police motorcycles!
:rotflmao:
Brian
You may not realize it but there is a game played by sport-tourers, 'How many HDs dawdling along in a line can you pass in a single swoop?'.
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Two police bikes were parked at Rudy's this morning while I was getting a breakfast taco. One was a Honda ST 1300 and the other a C14. I asked the officers which was faster and they laughed and said the Kawi would walk away from the Honda.
I also agree with Brian. Any of the modern liter sport bikes will out run a C14. The 600cc bikes not so much. The bike I wonder about is the V-Max. Will the big 1679cc Vmax out run a C14?
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You may not realize it but there is a game played by sport-tourers, 'How many HDs dawdling along in a line can you pass in a single swoop?'.
Haha...I suppose so...
Be careful when passing those guys...holy hell,...I think a couple deer wandering onto the road are more predictable...lol.
My friend Larry and I were passing a group of them on the Kancamaugus Hwy in NH one time. We were both on 08 C14's, with wives on the back. I know Brian knows this area well...but we were on the flat section of the hwy on the east end, but heading west. So, we hadn't hit the inclines yet, and the traffic was pokin' along. So, the two of us on C14's were rollin' up the passing lane with a full head of steam on...probably 90 MPH or so, and this guy on a HD pulls out to pass in front us ....no signal, no shoulder check, and no speed...nothing...he didn't even see us coming. If there wasn't smoke coming off of our rotors then, there never was...lol.
So...if you're passing a group of them anywhere...make sure you have somewhere to go if they do something weird in front of you...lol.
Rem :o
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Haha...I suppose so...
Be careful when passing those guys...holy hell,...I think a couple deer wandering onto the road are more predictable...lol.
My friend Larry and I were passing a group of them on the Kancamaugus Hwy in NH one time. We were both on 08 C14's, with wives on the back. I know Brian knows this area well...but we were on the flat section of the hwy on the east end, but heading west. So, we hadn't hit the inclines yet, and the traffic was pokin' along. So, the two of us on C14's were rollin' up the passing lane with a full head of steam on...probably 90 MPH or so, and this guy on a HD pulls out to pass in front us ....no signal, no shoulder check, and no speed...nothing...he didn't even see us coming. If there wasn't smoke coming off of our rotors then, there never was...lol.
So...if you're passing a group of them anywhere...make sure you have somewhere to go if they do something weird in front of you...lol.
Rem :o
Was there in 09 on a rented ST1300. LOVE that road. Rode it going east, turned around rode going west, turned around again and rode it east again to continue my ride.
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What got me to wondering was the KTM I looked at yesterday, their top of the line Adventure Bike. Salesman claimed 150hp and there didn't look to be a whole lot of weight to that skinny thing. I imagine it goes like stink.
Up until November when I finally decided to get a water cooled bike with some snap to it, I haven't looked at a new import since '82 when I bought my Seca. The imports I've owned since the late '80s have always been cheap wheels and "just temporary" between HDs. Things sure have changed. A BUNCH!
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Only regarding noise output :-)
Perhaps off the line but not otherwise, and absolutely not at higher speeds or if there is a any kind of curve in the road. I think the V-Max launches better, at least in my poorly skilled hands but then again, I find a C-14 difficult to launch hard (Easy Boys!) from a standing start. Judging by the 1/8 mile stats people have published of repeated runs on a drag strip, I am not the only one either 'cause the first couple of passes are usually pretty poor. The V-Max makes its power at a lower engine speed and has more 'grunt' but gets winded pretty quick.
I think the expectations have to be reasonable: if one starts to think of a C-14 as a 'snappy' or 'high performance' bike, he / she is bound to be disappointed because there are a lot of other bikes out that that will equal or surpass it. On the other hand, if one thinks of a C-14 as a heavy, pig of an old man's tourer, then its performance is not only surprising but really quite amazing.... and that is how I think of the bike. For a heavy beast of a sport tourer, it will not embarrass anyone riding one (other than being stranded next to a Mobil fuel pump when it won't start.... and Hardly riders are looking on) and will actually surprise, sometimes stunningly so, other bike riders as well as the person sitting on the thing.
One summer day, my wife and I were headed to the local bike shop. There is a very windy but very clean 2- lane road, speed limit 25 MPH (and places where that is too much- literally), on the way to the shop- it is perhaps 1 1/2 miles long. Anyway, coming off the main road to the stop light at this side road, we end up in the middle of a group of four sport bikes, all sitting at the red light. One 600cc and the other three were liter Yamaha R1's. Just before the light changed, my wife says in the intercom "Don't do it...." :-) I did not know what those four young bucks were going to do but I had a pretty good idea: sure 'nuff, when the light turned two of them launched pretty hard while the other two guys sort of sat there for a second. That was my opportunity to turn inside the last two and go after the first two. The first section of the road is gentle bends and that allowed me to put the smaller bike behind me. Now of course I could not take the R1 but then again, he could not put nearly as much distance between us as he thought he could, and he proved to be a relatively mild rider, probably new to bikes, and dumped most of his speed WAY early leading into the first very sharp turn..... if I did not have my wife on the back, I would have passed him right then :-) At any rate, after going around the curve limited by his speed, he was slow to accelerate out of the turn too and I think he was amazed to see me actually get closer for a second. When we got to the bike shop, both kids had to walk over and see what it was; I asked for extra credit because I had baggage AND saddlebags :rotflmao:. They were just pups and I think my gray hair further surprised them- anyway, the next thing I knew, two of the R1 riders were talking to a salesman about a C-14 they had on the floor.
With reasonable expectations, the C-14 is an outstanding performing bike..... as heavy, sport touring bikes go.
Brian
<snip>
The bike I wonder about is the V-Max. Will the big 1679cc Vmax out run a C14?
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The bike I wonder about is the V-Max. Will the big 1679cc Vmax out run a C14?
Nicole should be able to answer that, she owns both.
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Brian you like to live dangerously. When the baggage speaks, I always listen. ;)
Only regarding noise output :-)
Perhaps off the line but not otherwise, and absolutely not at higher speeds or if there is a any kind of curve in the road. I think the V-Max launches better, at least in my poorly skilled hands but then again, I find a C-14 difficult to launch hard (Easy Boys!) from a standing start. Judging by the 1/8 mile stats people have published of repeated runs on a drag strip, I am not the only one either 'cause the first couple of passes are usually pretty poor. The V-Max makes its power at a lower engine speed and has more 'grunt' but gets winded pretty quick.
I think the expectations have to be reasonable: if one starts to think of a C-14 as a 'snappy' or 'high performance' bike, he / she is bound to be disappointed because there are a lot of other bikes out that that will equal or surpass it. On the other hand, if one thinks of a C-14 as a heavy, pig of an old man's tourer, then its performance is not only surprising but really quite amazing.... and that is how I think of the bike. For a heavy beast of a sport tourer, it will not embarrass anyone riding one (other than being stranded next to a Mobil fuel pump when it won't start.... and Hardly riders are looking on) and will actually surprise, sometimes stunningly so, other bike riders as well as the person sitting on the thing.
One summer day, my wife and I were headed to the local bike shop. There is a very windy but very clean 2- lane road, speed limit 25 MPH (and places where that is too much- literally), on the way to the shop- it is perhaps 1 1/2 miles long. Anyway, coming off the main road to the stop light at this side road, we end up in the middle of a group of four sport bikes, all sitting at the red light. One 600cc and the other three were liter Yamaha R1's. Just before the light changed, my wife says in the intercom "Don't do it...." :-) I did not know what those four young bucks were going to do but I had a pretty good idea: sure 'nuff, when the light turned two of them launched pretty hard while the other two guys sort of sat there for a second. That was my opportunity to turn inside the last two and go after the first two. The first section of the road is gentle bends and that allowed me to put the smaller bike behind me. Now of course I could not take the R1 but then again, he could not put nearly as much distance between us as he thought he could, and he proved to be a relatively mild rider, probably new to bikes, and dumped most of his speed WAY early leading into the first very sharp turn..... if I did not have my wife on the back, I would have passed him right then :-) At any rate, after going around the curve limited by his speed, he was slow to accelerate out of the turn too and I think he was amazed to see me actually get closer for a second. When we got to the bike shop, both kids had to walk over and see what it was; I asked for extra credit because I had baggage AND saddlebags :rotflmao:. They were just pups and I think my gray hair further surprised them- anyway, the next thing I knew, two of the R1 riders were talking to a salesman about a C-14 they had on the floor.
With reasonable expectations, the C-14 is an outstanding performing bike..... as heavy, sport touring bikes go.
Brian
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Bah! She says no but she really means yes.... :-) Besides, she is happy her seat is in front of Mr. Elkhoof's place (although he may have the better view....).
Brian
Brian you like to live dangerously. When the baggage speaks, I always listen. ;)
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One summer day, my wife and I were headed to the local bike shop. There is a very windy but very clean 2- lane road, speed limit 25 MPH (and places where that is too much- literally), on the way to the shop- it is perhaps 1 1/2 miles long. Anyway, coming off the main road to the stop light at this side road, we end up in the middle of a group of four sport bikes, all sitting at the red light. One 600cc and the other three were liter Yamaha R1's. Just before the light changed, my wife says in the intercom "Don't do it...." :-)
Brian
Did your wife hit you after you stopped? Excellent story by the way.
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And double points if any of them are police motorcycles!
:rotflmao:
LOL! I will try to avoid that one :) Oh, and great story/followup post, Brian.
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Did your wife hit you after you stopped? Excellent story by the way.
Mine would have been screaming at 150 decibels and trying to hold on for dear life and some how punch me at the same time. I don't ride with baggage very often and I'm ok with that.
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Thanks but really, I owe the whole thing to Yamaha and testosterone. :-)
Nope, she likes it. That's why she keeps getting on the back. Half the miles on my C-14, at nearly 100K, are with her on the back. Hey, she was there, on the back, for the bikes' only crash when a friend, also on an '08 C-14, hit us from behind at an intersection.... and she gracefully hopped off and stood up while I went down with the bike. Then we got back on and rode for the next hour or so to a lunch with other Concours riders. So merely riding fast and dragging pegs does not put her off much.
Brian
Did your wife hit you after you stopped? Excellent story by the way.
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The bike I wonder about is the V-Max. Will the big 1679cc Vmax out run a C14?
The Vmax will run off and leave the C14 anywhere except top speed unless it has the top speed eliminator, they are governed to 137.
If it has the eliminator they will run about 170, and one of the first mods the riders do is get the eliminator.
It beats the Connie by half a second in the quarter, has 40 more horsepower, twenty more foot lbs of torque and has a power to weight ratio of 1 hp to 4 lbs, the Connie has a power to weight ratio of 1 hp to 5.12 lbs.
The Max is a beast in the acceleration department, with the shaft drive it will wheelie and spin the tire at the same time.
I own both bikes and trust me, the Max will smoke the Connie.
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After looking at the majority of sport bikes featured this month in Cycle World, I was shocked to see how many are now in the 200+ HP range, and weighing in around 500#'s....
Most any of those will take a Connie.
But, I agree with what was said earlier about an experienced and prepared rider...
That can make a lot of difference.
Put that type of rider with a C14 that's been modded and tuned on a good dyno... and that's a tough combination to beat...I don't care how hot the bike you're on is.
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Has anyone heard what is happening with the H2? Seems like all the hype has gone away, and no follow ups or info?
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Just a thought but be wary of any 200 Hp, register-able and insurable motorcycles; they are like unicorn tears. 200 Hp street bikes are usually measured in 'salesman horsepower' which is very different from actual horsepower.
As far as I know the current champ is the RR1000S BMW at 197, and that only because it turns 14,200 RPM. A very snappy little bike indeed but it has good manners due to its very well implemented traction control; given the auto shifter option, an idiot able to see to the end of the drag track can turn in impressive numbers. Otherwise, the 200 Hp arena is pretty open for new vehicles.
Brian
After looking at the majority of sport bikes featured this month in Cycle World, I was shocked to see how many are now in the 200+ HP range, and weighing in around 500#'s....
Most any of those will take a Connie.
But, I agree with what was said earlier about an experienced and prepared rider...
That can make a lot of difference.
Put that type of rider with a C14 that's been modded and tuned on a good dyno... and that's a tough combination to beat...I don't care how hot the bike you're on is.
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Just a thought but be wary of any 200 Hp, register-able and insurable motorcycles; they are like unicorn tears. 200 Hp street bikes are usually measured in 'salesman horsepower' which is very different from actual horsepower.
As far as I know the current champ is the RR1000S BMW at 197, and that only because it turns 14,200 RPM. A very snappy little bike indeed but it has good manners due to its very well implemented traction control; given the auto shifter option, an idiot able to see to the end of the drag track can turn in impressive numbers. Otherwise, the 200 Hp arena is pretty open for new vehicles.
Brian
That Beemer RR1000S is an impressive machine, and nice looking too.
And yes, be wary of that miracle 200HP mark..."salesman horsepower" will almost always be crank horsepower...not RWHP.
I believe the newest version of the Kawasaki ZX14R dyno's around 205 RWHP no? I seem to recall reading that on Ivan's web page. However, that's fully piped, flashed ECU, with piggyback PC5, etc.
http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/12zx14.htm (http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/12zx14.htm)
The newest liter-bikes I have had the opportunity to ride are a couple different 2008 ZX10R Kawasaki's...one fully modified, and one stock. A couple friends have them. I've also ridden a 2008 Hon-duh CBR1000RR, but that was back in 2009 or so. Any of the more "modern" liter-bikes...lets say...from the 2004 Kawasaki ZX10R and up, are very impressive machines. I bought a new ZX10R back in 2005, and there's really nothing like them. Once you get used to the acceleration of those bikes...everything else feels like their brakes are stuck on...lol.
PS: I rented a 2006 Suzuki GSXR-600 in Huntington Beach, CA back in 2006...while at the time, my personal ride was the new ZX10R 1000. I only got a couple blocks away, and I went back to the rental shop because I thought there was something wrong with the bike...it was so gutless I seriously thought the brake pads were dragging...lol. You can park two modern sportbikes side by side...a 600, and a 1000, and they will look almost identical...in fact, they'll even be within a few pounds of each other...but the power difference is shocking;).
Rem
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Per Cycle World Feb 2015 edition, new for 2015-
Yamaha YZF-R1/ R1M- 200 hp, wet weight 439#. 998 cc inline 4.
Kawasaki H2- 200 hp, wet weight 525#
Ducati 1299 Panigale- 205 hp/ 106.7 lb. ft. torque, dry weight 367#, Superquadro
Aprilia RSV4RR V4- 201 hp
BMW S1000RR- 197 hp
BMW S1000XR- "detuned version" of the S1000RR
These are just a few of the new offerings for this year in the 200 hp ballpark. There light weight is also amazing.
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Rode a GSX600 a few years back. Had to fold myself just to get on it. Gutless up to 9000 rpm then like a switch is thrown and the front wheel starts coming up. But then you have to immediately shift. Pretty quick for a tiny bike but I think my C14 would definitely take it in a straight line. The owner said it would top out at about 130 and I know the C14 has lots more to go above that.
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And double points if any of them are police motorcycles!
I did that. :( Going to work one morning in the carpool lane, heading right into the sun so I couldn't see any details. But I could make out a that Harley was about 10 vehicles in front of me and going slower than the traffic on the main section of highway. Really steams me. Finally get to the two lane section and I pass everyone and as I'm pulling up to the Harley I can finally see the details. Crap! Highway patrol. His lights are already on as I'm going by. I pull over and he walks up. Basically yells wtf. I explain I was pissed that he was going slower than the cars on the regular lanes and I couldn't see he was a cop due to the sun. He then asked me if I wanted a ticket or an ass chewing. I chose the ass chewing. :censored:
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:rotflmao:
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Rode a GSX600 a few years back. Had to fold myself just to get on it. Gutless up to 9000 rpm then like a switch is thrown and the front wheel starts coming up. But then you have to immediately shift. Pretty quick for a tiny bike but I think my C14 would definitely take it in a straight line. The owner said it would top out at about 130 and I know the C14 has lots more to go above that.
Most of the newer fuel injected 600cc RR sport-bikes...from 03/04-up should be able to hit 160+ MPH top end given enough road.
I know the 2005-2006 Kawi ZX6R will do about 165 MPH indicated;).
Most of the new liter-bikes from 2004-up, like the ZX10R, will hit 185 MPH with relative ease.
I had my 2008 C14 up to about 155 MPH indicated top-end...and they will go faster than that. Fully tuned with full exhaust, the C14 will hit 150 surprisingly quick...but the next 20MPH or so after that is a slow climb:).
Back in the old days...circa 1999, the Kawasaki ZX12R had the ability to hit 330 KM/Hr (or about 200 MPH) on the open road (indicated, not necessarily actual). I assume the Hayabusa of the same era would do the same, but I only know of guys doing it on the ZX12R. They were limited at 299 KM/HR after that, so 300 km/hr or 185 MPH top end is all you'll see on street-legal production bikes any more.
Not much has changed in the past couple decades with regards to top end speeds....it's how fast they get there is where the improvements are...lol. At the end of the day, aerodynamics are aerodynamics. As old as the ZX12R looks today, that old girl did cut the wind like a knife back in the day;).
Rem
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Most of the newer fuel injected 600cc RR sport-bikes...from 03/04-up should be able to hit 160+ MPH top end given enough road.
I know the 2005-2006 Kawi ZX6R will do about 165 MPH indicated;).
Most of the new liter-bikes from 2004-up, like the ZX10R, will hit 185 MPH with relative ease.
I had my 2008 C14 up to about 155 MPH indicated top-end...and they will go faster than that. Fully tuned with full exhaust, the C14 will hit 150 surprisingly quick...but the next 20MPH or so after that is a slow climb:).
Back in the old days...circa 1999, the Kawasaki ZX12R had the ability to hit 330 KM/Hr (or about 200 MPH) on the open road (indicated, not necessarily actual). I assume the Hayabusa of the same era would do the same, but I only know of guys doing it on the ZX12R. They were limited at 299 KM/HR after that, so 300 km/hr or 185 MPH top end is all you'll see on street-legal production bikes any more.
Not much has changed in the past couple decades with regards to top end speeds....it's how fast they get there is where the improvements are...lol. At the end of the day, aerodynamics are aerodynamics. As old as the ZX12R looks today, that old girl did cut the wind like a knife back in the day;).
Rem
Maybe the owner said he had only done 130, not that it was the max. Its been a few years.
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any of the 600 CC bikes i've owned blow my stock C14 away in the 1/4 mile and murders my c14 handling. Half the weight, 107-110 HP, chain drive, zero wind resistance..... doesn't take a physics major to figure this one out =)
LOL if anyone wants to go against my current stock 600 or ZX9 with a stock C14 BRING it and a pocket full of cash (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)