Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Charliedog on December 11, 2014, 09:17:43 AM
-
The only reason I ask that is it seems that every new bike I might consider (other than a rocket) needs suspension upgrades, re-valve/re-spring the front forks and replace the rear shock.
I have a C10 and have gone from stock shock to Progressive to ZZR1200 shock, a couple of FZ1s with replacement shocks, and an SV that I purchased with an Ohlin's shock already installed. Frankly, I'm sure if I can notice a diference in the ride, but I get caught up in making 'improvements', but the 2015 green caught my eye, and before I do anything I have to ask if there is a consensus regarding the C14 stock suspension. TIA
-
I think the C14 suspension is first-rate! I know folks like to tweak things to extract every last bit of performance but it rarely, if ever, required. It's all about what you want and how much money you have to throw at it.
But generally there are very few mass-manufactured motorcycles that are totally optimized in any one area. The C14 is a kinda-sporty mainly touring motorcycle. So things like comfort and soft suspension were more important than all-out handling. But it's always some sort of compromise. Something like a Ninja 1000 is is more of a flat-out sport touring bike and certainly would out handle a C14 at the expense of comfort, especially passenger comfort.
So is anything required on a C14 to make it a great motorcycle? IMHO no, it's a fantastic bike. Can you find some options or upgrades that might make it better for you? Absolutely!
-
Having come from heavy cruisers, I think the C14 suspension is fantastic. I'm sure someone with a lot of time on a high end sport bike would think differently.
-
I've never had any complaints about the suspension, brakes, or power. Maybe the weight, but not once it's moving.
-
I am more of a tourer than canyon carver and seldom ride at more than 7/10th. The machine is incredible in stock form and only a gung-ho rider, or one who tours 2-up with gear a lot, will need more than the stock adjustments can dial in. I am a big guy and carry my wife sometimes so we max out the weight and I leave the adjustments dialed into to handle that, so it's firm the rest of the time but perfectly comfortable and handles better than I am willing to push it.
-
Shades and above both C10 and Voyager XII I owned. It's bloody nirvana compared to them, but that's all I can compare it to. The rear suspension is a bit stiff, though.
-
I find both ends stiff, the rear more so.
-
My rear end is stiff too, but mostly because I sit on it all day long and don't get enough exercise.
Badda Bing, Badda Boom!
This so doesn't work for me...
-
Changed to traxxion forks and penske rear shock and was impressed. even better when wife said she was more comfortable.
-
Both ends have a harsh ride for different reasons. The fork is over sprung, the shock has too much compression damping. The shock is an easy fix but expensive....just replace it with a quality aftermarket shock. The forks need new springs and revalving, or to be replaced by a ZX-14 forks.
If I was rating the OEM suspension, I would give the forks a 8 and the shock a 7. Not bad but not as good as the competition.
-
I find the suspension very compliant for my purposes of 300-400 mile days with a couple of sweepers and ya-hoos tossed in daily. Once your sag-set is dialed in and you get a decent set of tires like PR-3/4GT's, you will find this bike very entertaining to say the least. I don't expect it to stay with my son's ZX-10 or even a 636. Those bikes beat the crap out of me in about 100 miles, but the C-14 is the best compromise for the money on the market- hands down. And the most durable IMO.
-
Once you get both ends dialed in for your weight and ridding style, the suspension works great, for me at least!
-
I have a Penske shock and Traxxion dynamic fork cartridges on my Ninja 1000. They are better than my Concours 14 suspension, but the margin is not near as much as it was with the Ninja bike.
How would I describe it? Lets say my modified Ninja is a 10. Stock ninja maybe a 5. Concours is a solid 7.
For sure it could be improved, but for me, the seat and a few other things were a higher priority.
-
I also find the stock C14 suspension a bit harsh. My C10 rides better with a ZZX rear shock and RaceTec gold valves in the forks.
-
I also find the stock C14 suspension a bit harsh.
It is probably because it is set for a higher weight capacity.... which makes sense for a sport touring bike designed to carry a lot of weight. Especially noticeable when the driver is not heavy (like me, 148lbs). In my case, I can never carry a passenger (and don't even have a seat for it anymore- Sargent pod), so I would probably benefit from lighter springs.
-
I bought my bike used , and know nothing about the PO. That being said, what ever the settings are, both F/R seem fine for me at 200lbs, whether he changed them from stock, or not. I keep telling myself I need to set the sag , etc, etc. But it feels so good now, I hate to chance messing it up. I may be overthinking the situation, or may be just lazy. I'll go with overthinking, no maybe lazy. Probably more just a procrastinator. . . tp
-
Considering her size and operating speed, not bad. There's more than enough spring there at both ends, too much really. Almost enough rebound damping range. I'm over 200 lbs and have about all the spring preload backed out of fork and shock, and still have yet to bottom it out.
Main thing seems to be get the springs to where you can maintain level flight, and rebound damping to keep the road from kicking back too hard. Helps to keep the steering head bearings a bit on the tight side. 8)
-
When I set it up as shown in the bike manual it's quite harsh. When I back the springs and dampening off completely it's not too bad.
-
Brilliant! That's exactly what I had to do...either that or gain more weight. ;)
-
Brilliant! That's exactly what I had to do...either that or gain more weight. ;)
I'm 180 lbs. Guess I need to eat more. :)
-
Exactly!
-
at 286-301 lbs this bike holding down pretty well i think!!!! :-\
no need to change rear suspension yet,upgrade of the front one in my plans(new harder springs).....
-
I also find the stock C14 suspension a bit harsh. My C10 rides better with a ZZX rear shock and RaceTec gold valves in the forks.
I found the same thing. My C10 (I say MY because my C10 is highly modified) had better brakes and suspension than my C14.
So on the C14 I went with new springs front and back (for my weight) and Traxxion AK20's in the front and an Ohlins in the back. Holy cow!! Huge improvement in smoothness and compliancy and very 'planted' on any roads- bumpy or smooth or curvy.
Apparently I am very spoiled because I know what a good suspension is supposed to feel like. My KTM has unbelievably fantastic suspension (re-spung and re-valved) and so does my KLR (after upgrading it) and doing track days on my friends Jixxer that also has really good suspension I now know when I get on stock suspension how bad it feels to me. The difference is night and day.
-
I found the same thing. My C10 (I say MY because my C10 is highly modified) had better brakes and suspension than my C14.
So on the C14 I went with new springs front and back (for my weight) and Traxxion AK20's in the front and an Ohlins in the back. Holy cow!! Huge improvement in smoothness and compliancy and very 'planted' on any roads- bumpy or smooth or curvy.
I was really hoping I wouldn't have to modify my C14, like I did the C10.
-
I was really hoping I wouldn't have to modify my C14, like I did the C10.
You do have options. At the very least talk to Traxxion and have your stock shocks re-valved and depending on your weight and how you ride you may need re-spinging. The difference will be like your stock C10 was and what you have now. I have had folks follow me on their C14 tell me that when braking hard the front end 'wanders'. We put a cable tie on the front fork to see how much the fork was compressing and sure enough the front suspension bottomed out and was flattening the front tire down to the rim causing the wandering.
-
I'm going to search for a thread on how people set the suspension up (how many 'clicks' on preload, rebound, etc). And how the bike comes out of the factory. I like to corner aggressively, and like firm suspension, but I'm used to the adjustable BMW suspension for the last decade. At 155# in shorts, I'm quite light compared to how manufacturers set up suspension (190# rider?). Will never carry a passenger on that bike, so the good news is once set up I don't have to change any settings. Heard the 2015 will have stiffer rear suspension, but don't think with my weight it'd be a problem with a 2013. Can't wait to get this bike and start tearing mountain roads in early spring :D.
-
I'm going to search for a thread on how people set the suspension up (how many 'clicks' on preload, rebound, etc). And how the bike comes out of the factory. I like to corner aggressively, and like firm suspension, but I'm used to the adjustable BMW suspension for the last decade. At 155# in shorts, I'm quite light compared to how manufacturers set up suspension (190# rider?). Will never carry a passenger on that bike, so the good news is once set up I don't have to change any settings. Heard the 2015 will have stiffer rear suspension, but don't think with my weight it'd be a problem with a 2013. Can't wait to get this bike and start tearing mountain roads in early spring :D.
It's amazing sport touring bike; heavy on the sport!
-
I'm going to search for a thread on how people set the suspension up (how many 'clicks' on preload, rebound, etc). And how the bike comes out of the factory. I like to corner aggressively, and like firm suspension, but I'm used to the adjustable BMW suspension for the last decade. At 155# in shorts, I'm quite light compared to how manufacturers set up suspension (190# rider?). Will never carry a passenger on that bike, so the good news is once set up I don't have to change any settings. Heard the 2015 will have stiffer rear suspension, but don't think with my weight it'd be a problem with a 2013. Can't wait to get this bike and start tearing mountain roads in early spring :D.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4480.msg51913;topicseen#new (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4480.msg51913;topicseen#new)
-
At 155# in shorts, I'm quite light compared to how manufacturers set up suspension (190# rider?).
I am about 150# and agree it is probably set for a much heavier person. I hope you don't wear shorts riding, however.... but if you do, make sure to wear an extra extra extra large white T-shirt, flip flops, a chrome tupperwear hat, and put your hand on your hip while riding ;)
-
I hope you don't wear shorts riding, however.
NEVER; I'm an ATGATT guy (in triple-digits, I use Draggin jeans, shorty Sidi boots, and mesh jackets, but still ATGATT IMO). Just haven't weighed myself with gear, but maybe 10# more?
-
Just haven't weighed myself with gear, but maybe 10# more?
In the winter, I bet my gear weighs at least 25 pounds.
My issue is last year I dieted and lost 25 pounds and over this past year (and especially the last month) I gained 10 of it back again, damnit!
-
In the winter, I bet my gear weighs at least 25 pounds.
My issue is last year I dieted and lost 25 pounds and over this past year (and especially the last month) I gained 10 of it back again, damnit!
And the holiday eating season is just getting started. Good luck Max!
-
Put the 112 lb wife on the C14 this weekend and did 120 miles. Added 10 clicks to the rear shock and the bike rode much better. Like someone already said, the bike seems to be setup to support a heavy rider. With the additional 112 lbs the harshness was gone.
-
Its no secret, aftermarket suspensions are WAY 'MO BETTER than stock. C14 is no exception to the rule (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconhammer.gif)
-
The C14's handling seems to be more tire pressure dependent that most other bikes. It definitely likes higher pressures. If my pressure falls below 42, especially in the front, it starts to handle like a turd.
-
The C14's handling seems to be more tire pressure dependent that most other bikes. It definitely likes higher pressures. If my pressure falls below 42, especially in the front, it starts to handle like a turd.
With PR2 or PR3's and ambient temps in the 80's or above I noticed that the front was happier at 44 psi, and the rear at around 45 psi. This bike is very sensitive with tires/pressures for some reason, but once you realize that it can boogie like a fat lady at a wedding reception.
-
I've had mine for several years now, and always though the suspension was somewhat harsh, and unforgiving.
Last summer, I dropped my wallet beside the interstate. I knew just where it was, but it was 100 miles from home. It was late, but very warm.
I filled the tank, and arrived to pick up my wallet @ 30 minutes later.
Many of the bikes "faults" ended up being more, "Oh, now I get it..."
My Ninja 100 has penske fork cartridges and a penske shock. Ohlins steering damper, too. With that being said, if I had to take a motorcycle to 150mph, I'll take the c14. Bags and all. The suspension that felt a little harsh, and unforgiving became very nice at elevated speeds. Same is true for wind protection, and engine power.
-
I've had mine for several years now, and always though the suspension was somewhat harsh, and unforgiving.
Last summer, I dropped my wallet beside the interstate. I knew just where it was, but it was 100 miles from home. It was late, but very warm.
I filled the tank, and arrived to pick up my wallet @ 30 minutes later.
Many of the bikes "faults" ended up being more, "Oh, now I get it..."
My Ninja 100 has penske fork cartridges and a penske shock. Ohlins steering damper, too. With that being said, if I had to take a motorcycle to 150mph, I'll take the c14. Bags and all. The suspension that felt a little harsh, and unforgiving became very nice at elevated speeds. Same is true for wind protection, and engine power.
100 miles in 30 minutes? My math skills are a bit rusty but wouldn't that be 200mph? ;)
-
100 miles in 30 minutes? My math skills are a bit rusty but wouldn't that be 200mph? ;)
Oh now C', let's not let mere facts get in the way of a good story. ;D
-
This C14?
-
I've had mine for several years now, and always though the suspension was somewhat harsh, and unforgiving.
Last summer, I dropped my wallet beside the interstate. I knew just where it was, but it was 100 miles from home. It was late, but very warm.
I filled the tank, and arrived to pick up my wallet @ 30 minutes later.
Many of the bikes "faults" ended up being more, "Oh, now I get it..."
My Ninja 100 has penske fork cartridges and a penske shock. Ohlins steering damper, too. With that being said, if I had to take a motorcycle to 150mph, I'll take the c14. Bags and all. The suspension that felt a little harsh, and unforgiving became very nice at elevated speeds. Same is true for wind protection, and engine power.
100 miles in 30 minutes? My math skills are a bit rusty but wouldn't that be 200mph? ;)
If I read it right the wallet was 100 miles from home. Don't know how far rcannon was from the wallet. ;)
-
I have noticed that the faster you ride the C14 the better it feels and rides... ;D ;D ;D
-
I wonder if Brian Williams has a C14.... :stirpot:
-
I have noticed that the faster you ride the C14 the better it feels and rides... ;D ;D ;D
Mine has the same problem ;D
-
Mine has the same problem ;D
One for the oxymoron thread: This is a "good problem" to have.
-
If I read it right the wallet was 100 miles from home. Don't know how far rcannon was from the wallet. ;)
There you go.
-
This C14?
I like it!
-
I was really 80 miles in 35-40 minutes...I was so screwed. Brian Williams and I were just riding along....
Earlier in the day, I had a flat in my work truck. Wallet had to fall out as I was getting spare from under truck. By the time I noticed, my truck was low on fuel. Gas card was in wallet. Wallet was 40 miles in the wrong direction....no problem, except I did not have enough fuel to get back to it, then get back to the station. I knew the wallet was laying at mile post 003...but, what if it wasn't? I mean, KNEW..but someone else could have seen it? What if I drove back and did nto find it? Then I'm in the salt flats with no fuel, money, or id.
The gas station would not take a personal check, or hold my ipad until I came back. Completely screwed. I have roadside assistance throguh my company.....awesoem . Phone number is on back of card, in my wallet....
I was flying out in two days. I HAD to have my drivers license.
So, I drove home and climbed on the bike. Went back the 80 miles to get wallet. This also led to a problem....I ran the tank of fuel to the fuel light, in 53 miles.
BUT, it all turned out well, and I really got to know this bike. I never saw 200, but came really close to the rev limiter in 5th. I did hit it in 4th. With the big, cal science windshield..I think I coudl have done better with a smaller shield?
I could go on, but the bottom line is the bike was built, and designed, to go much, much faster than we are allowed to. Even the headlight is awesome at those less than legal speeds. Also, the fuel tank could be larger. If you ever get to run this thing for all its worth, the fuel tank feels like it holds too little fuel.
-
I was really 80 miles in 35-40 minutes...I was so screwed. Brian Williams and I were just riding along....
, the fuel tank feels like it holds too little fuel.
The only time you can have too much fuel is if you are on fire. ;D
-
I wonder if Brian Williams has a C14.... :stirpot:
Ha ha. Nah, he'd have said he did it in 15 minutes ;D. Hope the liar gets booted. He's more of a lame entertainer than a newsman; let him replace Maury Povich.
-
This has a better stock suspension than a C14 ;D
(http://www.theirishstore.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/small-boy-waits-patiently-on-a-donkey-cart-in-the-market-place-at-kildare-co-kildare-ireland.jpg)
-
:battle:
-
Well, it was all fun and games until bullets ripped through the left saddlebag. I was very lucky in that one of the rounds hit my spare FOB, and ricocheted harmlessly into the salt....Uh, I mean all of them hit the fob...
It really was in the middle of the salt flats. There is a 30 mile section between Knolls, UT and Wendover , NV.
There is no bumps, ripples, or turns. At night you can see the light from the Casinos.
It was fun passing the semi trucks. Many of them soft-of enjoyed the "show". As I'd go past, several gave a thumbs up. As soon as I was back in the right lane, they would hit their high beams to help me see better.
The c14 has an incredible set of headlights. It was that reason I took it instead of my Ninja 1000. The ninja pretty much has a mini mag light, with deadbatteries.
-
Man, now I'm gonna get suspended from the forum....
-
Man, now I'm gonna get suspended from the forum....
For 'misremembering'? I'm pretty sure we can let you slide for that. :)
-
As long as he doesn't work for NBC news..
-
Rich folks are eccentric, poor folks are crazy. Famous folks misremember, normal folks lie.
-
what was the thread topic? :)
-
HLH1, The topic is suspension performance, and is it any good.
If we were staying right on point, the answer would have been..."Its good"
That answer helps no one, and gives no reason as to why. Four pages in to the discussion, its probably not unreasonable to see a story, or two, of why a person came to the conclusion they did.
In an Effort to Honor and Thank a c14, I Made a Mistake. AND, disrupted the forum. I'm feeling a six month suspension, with pay, coming on.
-
409 you're funny! ;D ;D ;D And thank you for getting back on topic.
-
As far as how good it is.....We'll use my stock Ninja 1000 in comparison.
You can see the ninja 1000 shock is not going to be much. Visually, It looks like one shock stolen off of my 1974 kd 125 kawasaki, and performs very similar. The ninja forks were the surprise. They look similar to c14 forks, but perform nothing like them. Harsh, unforgiving, and at the same time they bottomed if you hit the brakes....Oh, lets go to brakes, as well.....stock Ninja front brakes had maybe half as much power. I suppose it was so they did not bottom the overly sift and harsh fork.
I switched the fork internals to Penske cartridges, and switch the shock out with Penske. Now, its probably a little better than the c14. I've recommended the penske shock and fork cartridges to many people, but never to a c14 owner. Its not that they dont work...they work very well, but the gain you'd get, on the c14, is nowhere near like I got on my ninja 1000.
I'd love to try it, though.
Especially if you get a chance to take the 14 to its upper speed range...I'd do it everyday if I could.
-
Going by the subject line, I think this should be in the oxymoron thread. Is it possible to be objective in a good/bad discussion? The question, in and of itself, lends itself to comparison. Comparison of what? Is the suspension comfort or sport oriented? Touring on the Interstate system is bound to shift ones desires in suspensions compared to travel on 2 lane switchbacks at 60 mph maximum. Good or bad compared to what? Other sport/touring machines you say? Again, a perception issue. A Honda ST or a BMW 1600? Kind of tough to be objective on such a subjective topic.
Just my $.02
-
I agree. You do have to have some baseline measurement. I used my 03 sv 650 as the baseline. It was very basic. Offering preload adjustment, front and rear, and thats it.
So, if thats the baseline, its all up from there. The Ninja 1000 was disappointing, in suspension, based on the idea its not THAT much less money than a c14, yet the stock suspension feels thousands cheaper.....
-
Exactly, and I find the C14 suspension a bit harsh compared to my C10. The C14 does better when I have the wife on the back.
-
Thats the issue, or problem, isn't it?
Your making a motorcycle, and it comes to suspension settings. Do you spring it for a 180lb guy, or a rider and passenger who weigh close to 500lbs, together?
And, which one of those people should judge its performance?
-
Without electronic suspension adjustment, ANY setting has to be a compromise. Plus, suspension performance is directly proportional to weight, so even 2 persons with identical riding preferences will find very different results if one weighs 150 lbs and the other 250. Finally, riding style has a lot to do whether you like it or not. As mentioned, the Connie was designed on the sportier side, which is exactly what I wanted, since I only ride for the twisties (and alone). And with no adjustable suspension, want the compromise on the firm side. Will have to withhold my final comment until I take it to a trip with crappy asphalt and nice corners. Right now I put it exactly to factory specs, and it's a hair stiffer than I prefer. If I don't touch the pegs at the pace I like to tackle the twisties on public roads, will probably back off preload a bit. And rebound next if necessary. My previous BMWs with electronic suspension adjustment at the softest settings felt like sport+ for my 155# frame, and never changed it, so I don't miss it one bit. I like the ride firm, just not jarring. And until you ride in broken pavement, you can't know. Overall I'd rate the Connie's stock suspension better than average, compared to all the bikes I've bought with regular suspension. Kawi did a good job IMO.
-
Even electronic is going to have compromises. Until we get a way to electronically control spring rate.
-
Exactly, and I find the C14 suspension a bit harsh compared to my C10. The C14 does better when I have the wife on the back.
Mine is better with the ol lady on the back too. I adjusted it on a two up ride in Texas in some great sweepers, and kept stiffening it up until it felt good. I haven't messed with it since.
I always like my suspension a bit stiff, and am quite used to how my Connie feels and acts.
I do love embarrassing solo riders with my Wife on the back and my bags stuffed with bottled water. Good times.