Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: bongo on September 20, 2014, 08:01:30 AM
-
For months now I`v been suffering with a problem with the KIPASS ignition switch not working properly. The only way I could switch the ignition on was to bash the top hat, with a gloved hand, or knock the side of the ignition switch with a spanner and wait for a click before I could turn the ignition on.
First of all I took the side cover off the switch to revel the solenoid and give that a good clean with some electrical contact cleaner, but no joy still same problem.
Then I put some 3in1 into the key slot but nothing. Then I noticed that the top ring moved up and down and under the piece of ring that sticks out to the left at 9 o`clock there is a micro switch that had become stuck. After a bit of gentle prodding with a small narrow screwdriver and some electrical contact cleaner and some 3in1 the micro switch is now free and the KIPASS switch top hat is now activated with a slightest touch and not a bashing as before.
Hope this helps anyone who is having a problem with their KIPASS ignition switch.
-
That is some great information. Thanks for sharing that!
-
A big Welcome, Bongo! Glad to see you here! What year is your bike?
-
Yeah, the 'sticking activation' switch has been a problem since '08. Kawasaki came out with a quasi- fix on later models, and retrofits the earlier one but it does not eliminate the problem, it merely reduces the incidents of it.
There are several work- arounds for this problem, starting with the famous "K- rock" which is used to beat on the ignition switch housing. I also sell a commercial work- around to prevent the bike from being stuck, along with the rider.
A Google search on stuck switch on C-14 will yield a LOT of information about this problem and the various solutions.
Brian
For months now I`v been suffering with a problem with the KIPASS ignition switch not working properly. The only way I could switch the ignition on was to bash the top hat, with a gloved hand, or knock the side of the ignition switch with a spanner and wait for a click before I could turn the ignition on.
First of all I took the side cover off the switch to revel the solenoid and give that a good clean with some electrical contact cleaner, but no joy still same problem.
Then I put some 3in1 into the key slot but nothing. Then I noticed that the top ring moved up and down and under the piece of ring that sticks out to the left at 9 o`clock there is a micro switch that had become stuck. After a bit of gentle prodding with a small narrow screwdriver and some electrical contact cleaner and some 3in1 the micro switch is now free and the KIPASS switch top hat is now activated with a slightest touch and not a bashing as before.
Hope this helps anyone who is having a problem with their KIPASS ignition switch.
-
A big Welcome, Bongo! Glad to see you here! What year is your bike?
2008 with 27,000 fantastic miles on the clock ;D
-
Yeah, the 'sticking activation' switch has been a problem since '08. Kawasaki came out with a quasi- fix on later models, and retrofits the earlier one but it does not eliminate the problem, it merely reduces the incidents of it.
There are several work- arounds for this problem, starting with the famous "K- rock" which is used to beat on the ignition switch housing. I also sell a commercial work- around to prevent the bike from being stuck, along with the rider.
A Google search on stuck switch on C-14 will yield a LOT of information about this problem and the various solutions.
Brian
It would seem this micro switch might be the cause of a lot of peoples KIPASS problems and their not been aware that the switch is even there. It could be its not the spring or solenoid but this hidden micro switch that's been the root of the problem all a long, getting crudded up and sticking. This micro switch when the top hat is pushed down is what activates the KIPASS and allows the ignition to be turned on to start the bike. At the end of the day its just a case of keeping this micro switch clean and free. No need for work around mods and extra switchs to trick the KIPASS.
Simple as that.
-
You are 'discovering' seven year old information. It is great that you are investigating and everything but really, there is a lot known about this already.
The next step is to wonder what Kawasaki is going to do about this? Well, let's skip ahead to 2011 ::) and see: ah yes, they replace the activation switch's return spring with a stronger one. By the way, this is undocumented by Kawasaki; there is no part number nor have they made this knowledge available but quite a few people have had this service performed.... at no charge because it is simply Kawasaki's way of trying to quietly and inexpensively solve a problem without alerting all C-14 owners to this problem. Now, how does the new spring work.... does it solve the problem? No, it merely reduces the instances of it happening. The cure would be to mechanically connect the key mechanism with the switch actuator so that the switch can be uncoupled directly, no matter how badly it sticks closed.
But again, all this information is out there and readily available. You are "discovering" some really old data and not quite making the best guesses as to how to solve this issue, all in my opinion of course.
Brian
It would seem this micro switch might be the cause of a lot of peoples KIPASS problems and their not been aware that the switch is even there. It could be its not the spring or solenoid but this hidden micro switch that's been the root of the problem all a long, getting crudded up and sticking. This micro switch when the top hat is pushed down is what activates the KIPASS and allows the ignition to be turned on to start the bike. At the end of the day its just a case of keeping this micro switch clean and free. No need for work around mods and extra switchs to trick the KIPASS.
Simple as that.
-
Oh, and by the way: this is not quite correct for the multiple people that this switch has stranded. I suggest anyone interested do a Google search on the words "stuck" and "KiPass" for more (much more) data on this issue. When the switch sticks and cannot be released, it will strand the bike and rider.
Simple as that. ;)
Brian
<snip>
No need for work around mods and extra switchs to trick the KIPASS.
Simple as that.
-
You are 'discovering' seven year old information. It is great that you are investigating and everything but really, there is a lot known about this already.
The next step is to wonder what Kawasaki is going to do about this? Well, let's skip ahead to 2011 ::) and see: ah yes, they replace the activation switch's return spring with a stronger one. By the way, this is undocumented by Kawasaki; there is no part number nor have they made this knowledge available but quite a few people have had this service performed.... at no charge because it is simply Kawasaki's way of trying to quietly and inexpensively solve a problem without alerting all C-14 owners to this problem. Now, how does the new spring work.... does it solve the problem? No, it merely reduces the instances of it happening. The cure would be to mechanically connect the key mechanism with the switch actuator so that the switch can be uncoupled directly, no matter how badly it sticks closed.
But again, all this information is out there and readily available. You are "discovering" some really old data and not quite making the best guesses as to how to solve this issue, all in my opinion of course.
Brian
Oh, and by the way: this is not quite correct for the multiple people that this switch has stranded. I suggest anyone interested do a Google search on the words "stuck" and "KiPass" for more (much more) data on this issue. When the switch sticks and cannot be released, it will strand the bike and rider.
Simple as that. ;)
Brian
Yes I found plenty of info on the internet about tapping the top and side of the switch, plenty on people changing the springs for stronger ones, lots on faulty solenoid, there's even a video on Youtube by Brad Harrison posted in 2013 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otvC_AlqxUI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otvC_AlqxUI)) in which at the end he concludes there is something else at fault other than the solenoid, I think if he had have found this micro switch his video would have ended more positively.
I could find absolutely no info on this micro switch on the internet and wanted to get it out there, is`t that what these Forums are about sharing info. Yes the switch will most probably play up again in the future and be a bit of a nuisance, but now I know where to look and now as part of my routine maintenance make sure that I give the switch a squirt of WD40 or 3in1. Hopefully this will help someone else not getting stranded they will think to give the ignition switch at tap on the side and get the top hat out then they can get at the micro switch to make sure it free and get some WD on it and hopefully they`ll be on their way again. Or it saves them spending loads of pounds or dollar`s when there`s no need.
I take your point about plenty of people been left stranded I been one of them, but remembered reading about tapping the switch and waiting for the click to be able to turn top hat which got me home. Then the KIPASS started to play up more regularly so I decides to ring a main Kawasaki dealer here in the UK, they wanted the bike for 2 hours to investigate at £60 ($98) plus VAT (tax) per hour with no guarantee they could solve the problem and I might be looking at £650 ($1,000) plus VAT and labour for a new ignition unit. Kawasaki UK also thought it was a dodgy solenoid and no they would`t help as the bike is so far out of warranty. I could have spent hundreds of pounds or dollar`s on something that just needed a penny (cent) squirt of WD40 on a regular basis.
Its a simple fix that can save loads of frustration and money. ;)
The pics show where this micro switch lives, you can just make it out under the metal tag. This can get stuck down and needs to be teased with a narrow screwdriver and a squirt of WD40 to free it. Make it part of your maintenance routine to check that its free, if you have your FOB with you as you to touch the micro switch you can make it out clicking away which shows its free.
-
Good info, Bongo!
Thanks for sharing. I'll be sure to give it a squirt from time to time.
:)
-
Just a thought but you might want to do a bit of research before putting WD- 40 inside the ignition switch assembly. The stuff has a tendency to gum after a period of time.
Best of luck whichever way you go though.
Brian
Good info, Bongo!
Thanks for sharing. I'll be sure to give it a squirt from time to time.
:)
-
Just a thought but you might want to do a bit of research before putting WD- 40 inside the ignition switch assembly. The stuff has a tendency to gum after a period of time.
+1
I am not a fan of WD40 in locks (and similar mechanisms), at all (which has been expressed in several threads lately). Better to use a contact cleaner to clean it out, then something like a graphite or PTFE spray which will evaporate "dry", leaving no oil to attract/hold dust/dirt.
-
And contact cleaner attacks some types of rubber and plastic so that may come with a price tag as well.
You folks know I am not one to scream 'the sky is falling' but I would suggest people be careful and think about what is sprayed down into that metal / plastic / PC board assembly. It might come back to bite you.
Brian
+1
I am not a fan of WD40 in locks (and similar mechanisms), at all (which has been expressed in several threads lately). Better to use a contact cleaner to clean it out, then something like a graphite or PTFE spray which will evaporate "dry", leaving no oil to attract/hold dust/dirt.
-
And contact cleaner attacks some types of rubber and plastic so that may come with a price tag as well.
Good point. Personally, I avoid any type of solvents when possible and just use dry spray lubes.
But here is an example of a contact cleaner that specifically says it is plastic and rubber safe... ironically, it is a WD40 brand :)
http://www.wd40specialist.com/products/contact-cleaner/ (http://www.wd40specialist.com/products/contact-cleaner/)
-
Yep, a dry, non- conductive lubricant would be best (graphite and most lock lubes do conduct electricity and would be poor choices for this application). The one to watch out for, IMO, is silicone which IS a dry lube but unfortunately it is delivered in a wax based vehicle. It <seems> to be a dry lube but it is not, at least none of the brands I have tried.
Brian
Good point. Personally, I avoid any type of solvents when possible and just use dry spray lubes.
-
You folks know I am not one to scream 'the sky is falling' but I would suggest people be careful and think about what is sprayed down into that metal / plastic / PC board assembly. It might come back to bite you.
Brian
Brake Clean baby!!...Large high pressure cans with high flow nozzles that will spray 3 feet and empty a full can in about 60 seconds...lol.
Not sure if anybody noticed, the key section on the first gen C14's (as shown in the pictures earlier) is not nearly as open on the newer bikes. Kawasaki put shields in there later on. I expect lubing that button on the newer C14's would be difficult (with external sprays).
Rem
-
Brake Clean baby!!...Large high pressure cans with high flow nozzles that will spray 3 feet and empty a full can in about 60 seconds...lol.
Don't laugh- my best friend (a master mechanic) tells me horror stories of people he has worked with doing exactly that kind of thing.... scary.
-
Don't laugh- my best friend (a master mechanic) tells me horror stories of people he has worked with doing exactly that kind of thing.... scary.
Perchloroethylene....better living through chemistry. :)
-
Perchloroethylene....better living through chemistry. :)
Don't even go there...lol. That stuff is nasty!
Back when I was doing laundry equipment service, I remember holding my breath while sticking my head in those dry cleaning machine drums...lol. Used to be a two man job to fish the wires (from underwire bras) out of the bottom of the machines...lol.
Oh, and grab a handful of one of those dry commercial soaps to clean you hands with....THAT felt good in the nicks and cuts...lol. It was like washing your hands with ground up and broken glass...lol.
Rem
-
We used it at IBM Manassas as a cleaning solvent.. We called it Perc. IBM had a leak of it that migrated into some local wells. They've been gone from that site for awhile and they are still involved in monitoring and clean up efforts..
http://www.epa.gov/reg3wcmd/ca/IBM_Manassas_V2.html (http://www.epa.gov/reg3wcmd/ca/IBM_Manassas_V2.html)
-
Don't laugh- my best friend (a master mechanic) tells me horror stories of people he has worked with doing exactly that kind of thing.... scary.
What kind of horror stories? I use that stuff all the time...
-
What kind of horror stories? I use that stuff all the time...
So do I, I buy it buy it by the case...lol.
The environmentally friendly stuff of course...which isn't all that different from electrical contact cleaner from what I can tell.
Rem :o
-
just use extreme caution when using it on something you may later heat up really hot, like trying to clean/degrease something you plan to weld... even if it sits and airs out till dry, it is a hazard. I cleaned some parts I wanted to zap together with my mig, they were dry so I thought, but when I struck the first arc I got one single whiff, and stopped...knowing something was not good. I washed the parts in hot soapy water, and blew them dry prior to finishing the weld, and that was fine.
2 hours later both hands went claw like into excruciating muscle locked spasms, and I was feeling very uncomfortable... I decided to research this, and found i had just exposed myself to phosgene gas created by the reaction...that ain't funny, I had repeated issues with muscle spasms for 6 years after that 1 second whiff.
http://www.crcindustries.com/faxdocs/msds/5089.pdf (http://www.crcindustries.com/faxdocs/msds/5089.pdf)
the cautions about not smoking around the stuff ain't for flammability, but because if it's in the air, when you puff on a cig, you are drawing that chemical in, and directly inhaling the resultant toxin once it converts...
I believe this was why I had such bad effects from it, bad stuff Maynard...
-
Good info, Bongo!
Thanks for sharing. I'll be sure to give it a squirt from time to time.
:)
After further review...I think I'll leave it the heck alone.
-
What kind of horror stories? I use that stuff all the time...
The people would bathe in it if they could. Hosed it all over the place so much he couldn't breathe. Doused anything and everything in it.
-
I can certainly attest to the smell and it does linger. I just did the rear brakes on my Rav.
-
http://protectall.com (http://protectall.com)
Been using this for a few years without any issues, yet.
Now I don't know what base it consists of because there isn't a whole lot of info offered on its product info page.
Brian has me worried about waxy build up now ;)
-
Is this stuff any good for our ignition and locks? I have found it in liquid and aerosol form.
-
I love that stuff! In locks, yep, it works great. I put a drop on the teeth of a key and slide it in and out of the lock (Boys!) to get the lube into the teeth of the tumbler.
Electrical switches no because it contains graphite which is conductive (graphite is a form of carbon and that element is conductive).
Brian
Is this stuff any good for our ignition and locks? I have found it in liquid and aerosol form.
-
Brian, So you wouldnt recommend using it in the ignition switch?
-
Brian, So you wouldnt recommend using it in the ignition switch?
I woudl never try to speak for Brian, he is THE man, but no...That key lubricant is more for padlocks, door locks, and thing siek that. Once electricity gets involved, its best to avoid the metal containing lubricants.
-
Yes but only on the mechanical part of the actual ignition switch. What I do is put a streak of the lube on each side of the key's teeth and then (Easy Boys in ADVANCE!) slide it in and out of the ignition a half- dozen times. Then another streak (altogether, less than one drop) on each side and again into the ign. lock. You should feel it slide easier (Boys!) as the lube spreads out on the slides w/in the lock.
So again, on mechanical locks- yep, I think it works well to lube the lock. On the whole ignition assembly, or actually dripping the stuff into the lock- no, I would not do that. I believe this is a case of 'less is better'; my container of the stuff is metal and more than 30 years old... actually, it was my father's.
Oh, and when done, wipe the key off 'cause the graphite is jet black and will spread and stain everything it touches.
By the way, this works well on all locks of all types that I have tried it on. Just don't squirt the stuff into the lock though, I think that is where some people have trouble with the stuff.
Brian
Brian, So you wouldnt recommend using it in the ignition switch?
-
As per my other post, I actually like and use the stuff, even on ign. locks, but am careful to only use a small amount and not let the stuff 'get away' and spread around. The only place the lubricant is needed or wanted is on the small slides w/in the lockset itself, not all over the whole lock assembly. I think even one drop is way too much. And besides the possible electrical problems it might cause in the electronics, the stuff will stain and streak everything around for a long time. So a little applied to the key itself seems to work for me and never gets to anyplace where it could cause problems or make a mess.
Brian
I woudl never try to speak for Brian, he is THE man, but no...That key lubricant is more for padlocks, door locks, and thing siek that. Once electricity gets involved, its best to avoid the metal containing lubricants.
-
Oh, and when done, wipe the key off 'cause the graphite is jet black and will spread and stain everything it touches.
I learned the hard way the first time I used graphite- it really seems to like sticking to my skin