Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Gigantor on August 25, 2014, 09:34:29 AM
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Does anybody know the bulb numbers for the turn signals
and rear stop/tail light?
I just installed the HID kit from SOCALMOTOGEAR and
the difference between OEM and HID is huge.
I have a 2014 Concours
Thank you in advance
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The rear stop tail is LED already. Turn signals are not however.
I have searched the service manual (again) this AM and find it doesnt actually give part numbers. I wonder if there is a parts manual on these bikes?
The parts places on line call out: item 92069: as the bulb front and rear turn signals being - BULB,12V 21W - Kawasaki p/n 867622.
But this web site says they are 1157's:
http://www.jpcycles.com/2011-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400/bulbs (http://www.jpcycles.com/2011-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400/bulbs)
But they are easy to pull out and take a look, off-set pins should be 1157.
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Thanks for the info!
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As another already said the brake / tail light is LED. But you can get a really cheap, brighter LED taillight that also combines yellow LED turnsignals. They are built into the light and cannot be seen until they illuminate. Ebay has them for something like $25 or so- mine was sold for a 600 Ninja but was a direct fit. Cheap bling that may be useful- hey, at least you can yell louder at the guy who just rear- ended you (Easy Boys!), right?
Brian
Does anybody know the bulb numbers for the turn signals
and rear stop/tail light?
I just installed the HID kit from SOCALMOTOGEAR and
the difference between OEM and HID is huge.
I have a 2014 Concours
Thank you in advance
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Would change these to LED bulbs also require changing the flasher as well?
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http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/67453/i/dmp-led-flasher-relay (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/67453/i/dmp-led-flasher-relay)
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Does anybody know the bulb numbers for the turn signals
The turn signals are yellow 1156.
I have yet to find ANY yellow LED bulb 1156 replacement that can match the brightness of the incandescent equivalent. In my tests, they have either failed to distribute light in all directions appropriately (automatically making them useless) or were approximately 20+% dimmer.
If you can find something at least a bright or brighter... please let me [us] know, because I desperately want to change the front signals (which I have wired to be marker lights and blink OFF for turn signaling)!
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2236 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2236)
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I've been wanting to convert the bulbs over to LED as well but am also concerned about light output. One of these days I need to see how much room is in the housing as these bulbs put out more lumens than an incandescent 1156 (550 vs ~400 lumens). BUT they are very large bulbs. Someone try them for me ha!
http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/s-series-bulbs/1156-led-bulb--single-intensity-28-high-power-led/1643/ (http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/s-series-bulbs/1156-led-bulb--single-intensity-28-high-power-led/1643/)
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I've been wanting to convert the bulbs over to LED as well but am also concerned about light output. One of these days I need to see how much room is in the housing as these bulbs put out more lumens than an incandescent 1156 (550 vs ~400 lumens). BUT they are very large bulbs. Someone try them for me ha!
http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/s-series-bulbs/1156-led-bulb--single-intensity-28-high-power-led/1643/ (http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/s-series-bulbs/1156-led-bulb--single-intensity-28-high-power-led/1643/)
That looks very similar to one of the several bulbs I tried. You can't go by lumen claims, because they seem to all be just lies, unfortunately. You also can't go by watts, because I measured those as always different from the claims. It seems to be especially "slimy" out there regarding LED bulbs.
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I wanted to upgrade my rear turn signals because some of the people I ride with complained that they could not see the signals in the light of the day. So I tried several sets of LED bulbs from ebay and always ordered 1156 bulbs. None of the bulbs had the correct pin locations to be installed, so after returning two sets I gave up. If anyone has a solution to getting more light to the rear turn signals other than installing some aftermarket add on light I'd be interested.
Fork
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I wanted to upgrade my rear turn signals because some of the people I ride with complained that they could not see the signals in the light of the day. So I tried several sets of LED bulbs from ebay and always ordered 1156 bulbs. None of the bulbs had the correct pin locations to be installed, so after returning two sets I gave up. If anyone has a solution to getting more light to the rear turn signals other than installing some aftermarket add on light I'd be interested.
Fork
1156 have pins straight across from each other
1157 have off-set pins
I'll pull mine tonight and take a pic and post it.
(http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server1900/e457d/product_images/uploaded_images/15mmbases.jpg)
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2011 Concours with SOCALMOTOGEAR HID system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkH3xBN4hE8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkH3xBN4hE8)
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Tim from SOCALMOTOGEAR is working on providing bright
LED's for our Concours blinkers and taillight assembly
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2011 Concours with SOCALMOTOGEAR HID system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkH3xBN4hE8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkH3xBN4hE8)
I like the 194 LEDS you used in the "city lights".... them seem pretty bright. But I had the same problem with those- first I want yellow (there is no point in adding additional white light), and I tried two different yellow LED 194's and both were MUCH dimmer than regular incandescent 194's. :( Which are those, and are they available in yellow/amber?
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Tim from SOCALMOTOGEAR is working on providing bright LED's for our Concours blinkers and taillight assembly
Coolness, I am waiting anxiously with crossed fingers on that :)
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In the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkH3xBN4hE8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkH3xBN4hE8)
Are these the 194 LED's he used?: http://www.vleds.com/shop-bulb-numbers/194-168-158-led.html (http://www.vleds.com/shop-bulb-numbers/194-168-158-led.html)
Were they on that page?
Now if they could make ones for the rear we'd be in biniss :)
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Yes 194 Cree LED
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...first I want yellow (there is no point in adding additional white light), and I tried two different yellow LED 194's and both were MUCH dimmer than regular incandescent 194's. :( ...
Ditto... I really like the look of amber city lights. Mine are still incandescent.
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In the video Are these the 194 LED's he used?: http://www.vleds.com/shop-bulb-numbers/194-168-158-led.html (http://www.vleds.com/shop-bulb-numbers/194-168-158-led.html)
Were they on that page?
This one on that page looks most promising: http://www.vleds.com/shop-bulb-numbers/194-168-158-led/6-a.html (http://www.vleds.com/shop-bulb-numbers/194-168-158-led/6-a.html) 6 x 0.5 watt bulbs should be a lot of light, although in our application, more forward facing chips would be better because the reflectors of the city lights are small and not very effective. Not cheap, but worth it if it really is a lot brighter than incandescent.... I bookmarked it in case they end up with a turn signal bulb to try, too...
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Ditto... I really like the look of amber city lights. Mine are still incandescent.
The goal is to try and look different and stand out some (while being legal). The stock city lights are pretty much 100% useless/meaningless. What little light they put out just meld into the headlights. Changing the city lights to yellow/amber instantly makes a less "generic" frontal appearance.... but they are still rather dim and close to the headlights... so at a distance they meld in too (plus you can't see them from the side.. which is why I turned the front signals into running lights). Personally I think there is little point in replacing them at all, unless it is with yellow/amber. But some people who put in HID just want a "whiter" bulb to help match. Meh
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On the Socalmoto web site it says they use T10 40W Cree LEDS.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XT10+40W+Cree+LED&_nkw=T10+40W+Cree+LED&_sacat=0 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XT10+40W+Cree+LED&_nkw=T10+40W+Cree+LED&_sacat=0)
What do you think about those? There are two 40W bulb sets on that page.
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On the Socalmoto web site it says they use T10 40W Cree LEDS.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XT10+40W+Cree+LED&_nkw=T10+40W+Cree+LED&_sacat=0 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XT10+40W+Cree+LED&_nkw=T10+40W+Cree+LED&_sacat=0)
What do you think about those? There are two 40W bulb sets on that page.
I believe T10 is the same as the 194 package.
40 watts? Yes, I see what you are saying, but I find that IMPOSSIBLE to believe. There is no way something that small could dissipate 40 watts of heat. It would melt and before that, burn out all the LEDs (LEDs hate heat). This is exactly what I was talking about with misleading (lying) specs on so many listings. Zoom into this one and read their supposed specs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Big-Sales-2x40W-Amber-T10-194-168-921-2825-W5W-8-chips-CREE-LED-Bright-Car-Light-/261252699796?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd3dfd694&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Big-Sales-2x40W-Amber-T10-194-168-921-2825-W5W-8-chips-CREE-LED-Bright-Car-Light-/261252699796?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd3dfd694&vxp=mtr)
LED Style: 40W High Power CREE.
Power consumption: 2-3W
Led Chip: 5W*8pcs =40W
So it consumes 2 to 3 watts, but has 8x5 watt LEDs on it? Um, yeah, right. Besides being impossible, 40 watts of LED light would be so bright it would be blinding. It would be the equivalent of something like 360 watts of incandescent light! Probably not using CREE LED chips either, it is just easy for people to slap that onto every listing now.
It is probably a 2 watt bulb. Now, would that be brighter than the incandescent bulb? Maybe. It depends on the quality of the LED chips used.
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Ya, Ive never had a LED bulb that was as bright as a Incandescent either. Maybe they (manufacturers) are indeed embellishing.
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I'm with Max here- that is not possible.
1) No circuit could handle the current required to deliver 40 watts to a 194 bulb package. The fuse would pop.
2) The housing could not handle the heat; it would melt at best, catch fire at worst.
They may be bright, and they may well be brighter than an incandescent 194 but 40 watts? Not even in salesman power. :-)
Brian
I believe T10 is the same as the 194 package.
40 watts? Yes, I see what you are saying, but I find that IMPOSSIBLE to believe. There is no way something that small could dissipate 40 watts of heat. It would melt and before that, burn out all the LEDs (LEDs hate heat). This is exactly what I was talking about with misleading (lying) specs on so many listings. Zoom into this one and read their supposed specs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Big-Sales-2x40W-Amber-T10-194-168-921-2825-W5W-8-chips-CREE-LED-Bright-Car-Light-/261252699796?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd3dfd694&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Big-Sales-2x40W-Amber-T10-194-168-921-2825-W5W-8-chips-CREE-LED-Bright-Car-Light-/261252699796?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd3dfd694&vxp=mtr)
LED Style: 40W High Power CREE.
Power consumption: 2-3W
Led Chip: 5W*8pcs =40W
So it consumes 2 to 3 watts, but has 8x5 watt LEDs on it? Um, yeah, right. Besides being impossible, 40 watts of LED light would be so bright it would be blinding. It would be the equivalent of something like 360 watts of incandescent light! Probably not using CREE LED chips either, it is just easy for people to slap that onto every listing now.
It is probably a 2 watt bulb. Now, would that be brighter than the incandescent bulb? Maybe. It depends on the quality of the LED chips used.
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Modern LEDs can be very bright indeed- they can reach 1,000 lumens and absolutely damage the human retina. Blindly bright. For any amount of given power, LED's will produce more light than any useful tungsten (halogen) lamp of any kind.
But not 40 watts in a 194 bulb package :-)
Brian
Ya, Ive never had a LED bulb that was as bright as a Incandescent either. Maybe they (manufacturers) are indeed embellishing.
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Wow check this out, my rear bulbs. Not 1156 or 1157, notice the off-set:
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Straight across pins but not what I expected.
Found it: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=2012+kawasaki+concours+14+92069-1125&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X+kawasaki+92069-1125&_nkw=+kawasaki+92069-1125&_sacat=0 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=2012+kawasaki+concours+14+92069-1125&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X+kawasaki+92069-1125&_nkw=+kawasaki+92069-1125&_sacat=0)
kawasaki p/n 92069-1125
http://www.kawasakipartshouse.com/oemparts/a/kaw/52bc4e60f8700204783348ff/turn-signals (http://www.kawasakipartshouse.com/oemparts/a/kaw/52bc4e60f8700204783348ff/turn-signals)
Thats why member Dan Forker couldnt find the right pin combo to fit.
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Wow check this out, my rear bulbs. Not 1156 or 1157, notice the off-set:
OK, that is very disturbing. I was under the assumption the bulb was an 1156 (it would never be an 1157, that is dual filament). ZILLIONS of vehicles use 1156. But that side pin offset in your photo appears to be non-standard. I even removed the stock bulb from my bike and never noticed that before. I never had a chance to try a replacement bulb in the bike, since none of the ones I were testing were bright enough so I never put them in the bike's socket (I used standard sockets on my bench setup).
Now I wonder if an 1156 would fit or not. It is possible the socket could take more than one side pin offset configuration. Has anyone EVER gotten an 1156 to work? I wonder if you could use an 1156 and just grind down one of the pins?
Why would they do that? To try and force people to pay 1000% more for a bulb? I thought Dan's posting was whacked or something! What is this strange bulb called.... in the non-Kawasaki world?
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Could be this one:
(http://www.donsbulbs.com/bulbs/g623/b/bau15s.gif)
http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b.pl/12v (http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b.pl/12v)|21w|bau15s|amber.html
Yep there's a bunch of them on ebay.
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^ That looks like it!!!!!
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^ That looks like it!!!!!
But it isn't! That is one of the bulbs that I tried. The 30 degree offset on the left pin is incorrect and the bulb cannot be put in place. I gave up when I wasn't convinced that any of the available LED's would produce my intended result of increasing visibility of my rear turn signal anyway, so no reason to spend time on solving the mystery. It appears to be a non-standard bulb. Still looking for a sensible way to increase light output from the rear turn signal other than adding an secondary signal light.
Fork
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I hear that the '15s will have all LED lights.
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I hear that the '15s will have all LED lights.
:P
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Audi and Volkswagen calls them 7507 Bulbs
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I think I will buy the BAU15 bulb and see if it fits.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161368499624?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/161368499624?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
They also call them PY21W7507
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PY21W-7507-AMBER-CHROME-HALOGEN-BULBS-PAIR-/191215984965?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item2c855c6145&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/PY21W-7507-AMBER-CHROME-HALOGEN-BULBS-PAIR-/191215984965?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item2c855c6145&vxp=mtr)
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Wow check this out, my rear bulbs. Not 1156 or 1157, notice the off-set:
That is what I remembered when I put my alternate lenses in. Was not sure I remembered that correctly but I distinctly remembered I had bought what I thought was correct and ended up pulling the original bulb and using it in the new lenses.
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I'm really thinking about that HID kit.
Was the wiring truly plug and play (no splicing)?
Did you have to run new power back to the battery?
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Yes truly plug in play, no need to run power from battery
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkH3xBN4hE8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkH3xBN4hE8)
Instructions for Goldwing, but has good information on installation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmqB8ZDSZC8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmqB8ZDSZC8)
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2011 Concours with SOCALMOTOGEAR HID system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkH3xBN4hE8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkH3xBN4hE8)
This is low beam only correct ??
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I will say this again and again and again until I die...
The ONLY way you should EVER run HID's is if you do a projector retrofit, with projectors. If you use HID Bulbs in a standard reflector housing, not only does the output suck comparatively, the light is scattered every which random direction, to include blinding other drivers. You want to be seen, not blind people so they cant see you.
The reflectors are carefully engineered to work with Halogen bulbs. HID Bulbs are much longer, and put out a different pattern and MUCH more light. But, because of the difference in the shape and positioning of the light source, that's a lot of energy for a very negative effect.
By installing projectors, you are directing the light source where it needs to go... Out of other drivers eyes, and down the road, in a very smooth manner. Not only will that make it easier for you to see, but it will keep other drivers from being blinded, and if aimed right, will appear "Flicker" at them as you're going down the road with small bumps etc. THAT will make you more noticeable in a good way.
Theretrofitsource.com has all of your needs... Seriously... I'm not associated with them in any way, just a very happy customer who has friends who are also very happy customers. Look into the Mini H1 or Mini D2s. The Mini D2s is what i plan on retrofitting to eventually.
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Stephen is correct...BTDT. The HID will fit in the fixture just fine, but the light pattern will be...
1) Really bright
2) All over the place
3) Pissing off oncoming drivers
saxman
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I think you may be generalizing a bit too much in this case. Projectors are an excellent device for headlights, both tungsten as well as HID but they are not a requirement for HID use; there were reflector headlights originally designed for use with HIDs, passed US DOT requirements and sold for street use. In fact, the "R" series of HID lamp, such as D2R types, were designed specifically for reflector housings.
There is nothing fundamentally different about a filament producing light as compared with a short arc producing light.
As far as retrofitting HID's into reflector housings originally meant for tungsten lamps, I have found the resulting beam quality all over the place with some really horrible results (H7 in Expedition housings), quite a few fair results and some really quite good results (the C-14 headlight buckets do pretty well with HIDs). C-14's fitted with aftermarket HID lamps are not particularly bad for oncoming traffic as they still produce a very crisp cut- off line and provided they are adjusted correctly I find them kinder to the eye than, say, a lot of other motorcycles using the high beam, or motorcycles equipped with the very common pair of secondary lights which are not only illegal but truly a bad idea as they have no forward shield and hence, no cut- off line at all.
Of course all retrofits of HID lamps (or burners) into any housing not originally made specifically for them is illegal but then again, so is changing the exhaust system on a road vehicle to an uncertified type (which is all of them as far as I know).
But at any rate, it is simply not correct that HIDs cannot be used well in reflector housings; the OEM and DOT certified versions are actually excellent. I am not talking about any retrofit here but rather original designed reflectors using HIDs as the light source. Put another way, reflectors and HIDs are perfectly compatible and by no means an unusable combination.
And some projectors do not do well at all with HIDs if they were originally designed for tungsten lamps. Some Chrysler products I have seen will not maintain a crisp cut- off line, produce a LOT of glare and are simply not suited for that conversion IMO.
Brian
I will say this again and again and again until I die...
The ONLY way you should EVER run HID's is if you do a projector retrofit, with projectors. If you use HID Bulbs in a standard reflector housing, not only does the output suck comparatively, the light is scattered every which random direction, to include blinding other drivers. You want to be seen, not blind people so they cant see you.
The reflectors are carefully engineered to work with Halogen bulbs. HID Bulbs are much longer, and put out a different pattern and MUCH more light. But, because of the difference in the shape and positioning of the light source, that's a lot of energy for a very negative effect.
By installing projectors, you are directing the light source where it needs to go... Out of other drivers eyes, and down the road, in a very smooth manner. Not only will that make it easier for you to see, but it will keep other drivers from being blinded, and if aimed right, will appear "Flicker" at them as you're going down the road with small bumps etc. THAT will make you more noticeable in a good way.
Theretrofitsource.com has all of your needs... Seriously... I'm not associated with them in any way, just a very happy customer who has friends who are also very happy customers. Look into the Mini H1 or Mini D2s. The Mini D2s is what i plan on retrofitting to eventually.
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I think you may be generalizing a bit too much in this case. Projectors are an excellent device for headlights, both tungsten as well as HID but they are not a requirement for HID use; there were reflector headlights originally designed for use with HIDs, passed US DOT requirements and sold for street use. In fact, the "R" series of HID lamp, such as D2R types, were designed specifically for reflector housings.
There is nothing fundamentally different about a filament producing light as compared with a short arc producing light.
As far as retrofitting HID's into reflector housings originally meant for tungsten lamps, I have found the resulting beam quality all over the place with some really horrible results (H7 in Expedition housings), quite a few fair results and some really quite good results (the C-14 headlight buckets do pretty well with HIDs). C-14's fitted with aftermarket HID lamps are not particularly bad for oncoming traffic as they still produce a very crisp cut- off line and provided they are adjusted correctly I find them kinder to the eye than, say, a lot of other motorcycles using the high beam, or motorcycles equipped with the very common pair of secondary lights which are not only illegal but truly a bad idea as they have no forward shield and hence, no cut- off line at all.
Of course all retrofits of HID lamps (or burners) into any housing not originally made specifically for them is illegal but then again, so is changing the exhaust system on a road vehicle to an uncertified type (which is all of them as far as I know).
But at any rate, it is simply not correct that HIDs cannot be used well in reflector housings; the OEM and DOT certified versions are actually excellent. I am not talking about any retrofit here but rather original designed reflectors using HIDs as the light source. Put another way, reflectors and HIDs are perfectly compatible and by no means an unusable combination.
And some projectors do not do well at all with HIDs if they were originally designed for tungsten lamps. Some Chrysler products I have seen will not maintain a crisp cut- off line, produce a LOT of glare and are simply not suited for that conversion IMO.
Brian
Thank you Brian, I did not specify "Reflector Housings designed for Halogens"
Either way, There is absolutely no disputing the amazing difference between a good projector, and a reflector housing. :chugbeer:
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Yeah I had a sport bike behind me and It BLINDED me, PISSED me off for sure.. I don't get it , since you sit so high on this bike I can only imagine what the cars think, I really think this hid thing should be illegal .
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Yeah I had a sport bike behind me and It BLINDED me, PISSED me off for sure.. I don't get it , since you sit so high on this bike I can only imagine what the cars think, I really think this hid thing should be illegal .
It *is* illegal (as a retrofit). But so is changing lanes without turn signals, having colors other than red/yellow/white on a vehicle, over-tinting windshields, modifying the exhaust to be loud, tampering with emissions controls, blasting the stereo at mega volume, hanging things on the mirrors, etc, etc. The police seem to only be interested in enforcing speeding. Anyway....
That said, I did convert to HID on the Concours to try and gain better light for night riding. Like Brian said, each vehicle is different. MOST of the HID conversions I see on the road are horrible and blinding. The Concours handles it better than most (as long as it is adjusted properly and I am sure things vary from kit to kit too). But I am still not very impressed with the light pattern, and it absolutely does have additional scatter. I am constantly fiddling with it and worried it might be too bright for oncoming traffic. I don't find the cutoff to be all that good, and the light is not spread evenly enough to prevent hotspots (that can cause distance lighting to suffer). I would not do it again, but I don't want to undo it either... I am kinda torn at this point.
I would love a proper HID (or LED headlight) with projector conversion- something that was designed to work together (like my G37, which has absolutely, drop-dead-wonderful headlights; which is why I am spoiled). So far I haven't seen anything that is easy enough, quality, reputable, looks correct on the bike, and affordable. When I do, I will likely jump on it.
But I thought this thread was for LED conversions!!
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Yeah...I did the same thing. One C-10...two C-14s...several different kits with slightly different HID capsules. NONE were awesome, although there was plenty of light to be had.
Hence my earlier comments...strictly referring to the C-10 and C-14 retrofits I tried.
And I put incandescents back in all of them after a while. Well, there was the LED tryout. But that is a different story entirely. All incandescents currently...
saxman
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But I thought this thread was for LED conversions!!
Mission creep. It happens all the time. Be one with it.