Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: aspire61 on August 10, 2014, 07:25:16 PM
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heh all:
I just changed out my rear tire to a 190/55 Pirelli Angel ST. The feedback in the forum suggests better handling with a 55, and I notice it bites into the corners better than my previous 50 tire. Does anyone know the reason for this? I think I fell asleep in physics class that day. Also- do you recommend keeping a 70 up front?
chrs-mat
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heh all:
I just changed out my rear tire to a 190/55 Pirelli Angel ST. The feedback in the forum suggests better handling with a 55, and I notice it bites into the corners better than my previous 50 tire. Does anyone know the reason for this? I think I fell asleep in physics class that day. Also- do you recommend keeping a 70 up front?
chrs-mat
A 55 on a 195 tire is almost 10mm taller. Most likely you changed your old tire because it was worn out. Going from an old tire to a new tire is another 4 or 5mm.
Anytime you raise the back of the bike up higher , in your case ~ 15 mm it will turn easier. Owners do not check their sag adjustment after a different sized tire change. Most people think it is the new tire and that is partly correct but mostly it is the raising of the rear of the chassis changing the ride geometry.
Also the profile is a little different. The 50 is a little flatter and has a better center contact patch when upright. The 55 is more 'V' shaped and a better contact patch when leaned over.
I have ridden on both sizes . I prefer the 50.
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heh all:
I just changed out my rear tire to a 190/55 Pirelli Angel ST. The feedback in the forum suggests better handling with a 55, and I notice it bites into the corners better than my previous 50 tire. Does anyone know the reason for this? I think I fell asleep in physics class that day. Also- do you recommend keeping a 70 up front?
chrs-mat
It might help your cause to modify the subject line with something a bit more descriptive on what you're looking for....
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It might help your cause to modify the subject line with something a bit more descriptive on what you're looking for....
Ha ha-perhaps jim, or maybe most people don't actually know why. I was thinking it had something to do with the gyroscoping effect of the wheel and tire. The smaller the circumference, the greater the speed, the more stable the bike, equals more force required to lean.
Then again, i was out of physics class that day, so maybe it just sounds plausible to me.
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Speed is speed. At the same road speed, the smaller tire would have a higher frequency, but...the same speed.
But the rotating wheel has momentum that depends on the frequency AND the radius squared. So the larger wheel should be more stable, all other things being equal. Which they *actually* never are, of course.
saxman
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The reason why it turns more easily is because the 55 series tire is narrower and has a more rounded profile. The wider and "flatter" a rear tire is, the "slower" the steering is.
The 50 series tire looks cool, but it doesn't help the handling of the bike at all.
My other bike is a Yamaha FZ1, and a lot of guys on those bikes change from the stock 50 series tire to a 55 series tire for the same reasons C14 owners do; the bike steers quicker and easier.
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Ha ha-perhaps jim, or maybe most people don't actually know why. I was thinking it had something to do with the gyroscoping effect of the wheel and tire. The smaller the circumference, the greater the speed, the more stable the bike, equals more force required to lean.
Then again, i was out of physics class that day, so maybe it just sounds plausible to me.
I really think it would be a good idea to modify the subject line...
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42
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heh all:
I just changed out my rear tire to a 190/55 Pirelli Angel ST. The feedback in the forum suggests better handling with a 55, and I notice it bites into the corners better than my previous 50 tire. Does anyone know the reason for this? I think I fell asleep in physics class that day. Also- do you recommend keeping a 70 up front?
chrs-mat
Sure, we know why.... because its a brand new tire, it better grip ....... 8) ???
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What he said.
I think that fact is overlooked by most of us when we get new tires. We make a change in brand, size, type, etc. and feel that going from one width to a different width make a huge difference when really it was the fact that the old, dead, worn out tires were changed for brand new ones. Spoon on some new rubber and it is like a new motorcycle.... but how much of that is due to what change (newness alone or the size / brand change)? The only way to really know would be to have two new tires, one in each size / brand, and use them both for, say, 50 miles and see how much difference there really is.
Still, I like 190/55 rubber on my C-14 better than 190/50 rubber. Tried both sizes in several Michelin and now Pirelli types and prefer the /55s in all types so far.
Brian
Sure, we know why.... because its a brand new tire, it better grip ....... 8) ???
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I really think it would be a good idea to modify the subject line...
You have the power.... go for it! (No really, it is a good idea)
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I think that fact is overlooked by most of us when we get new tires. We make a change in brand, size, type, etc. and feel that going from one width to a different width make a huge difference when really it was the fact that the old, dead, worn out tires were changed for brand new ones. Spoon on some new rubber and it is like a new motorcycle.... but how much of that is due to what change (newness alone or the size / brand change)?
Bingo!
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Bingo!
Except for me. I took a nail (actually it was a drill bit) in a brand new 50. Sunny Steve happened to be riding with me at the time. I went to a 55 because the 50's were out of stock and i needed a tire quick. So I compared a new 50 to a new 55. If I was tracking the bike I would stick with a 55. I live in Florida.We need the larger center patch down here . I also like that tiny increase in gearing (smaller diameter tire). I also think the profile is better on the 50. It handles better than the 55.
:thumbs: :thumbs:
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You have the power.... go for it! (No really, it is a good idea)
Yeah- do it. I was thinking something along the line of "Physics Teacher Wanted!
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Yeah- do it.
Well, you have the power too- just edit the first post's subject- that will change the topic/thread.
I was thinking something along the line of "Physics Teacher Wanted!
:) Or maybe "Tire physics teacher wanted!"
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What he said.
I think that fact is overlooked by most of us when we get new tires. We make a change in brand, size, type, etc. and feel that going from one width to a different width make a huge difference when really it was the fact that the old, dead, worn out tires were changed for brand new ones. Spoon on some new rubber and it is like a new motorcycle.... but how much of that is due to what change (newness alone or the size / brand change)?
Hey Brian,
I've been saying this all along, and I don't think anybody listens, realizes, or gives a poop...lol. Keeping in mind that, while I do prefer the 50 series 190 rears, I still wholeheartedly agree with your comment above. New tires always feel awesome and make the bike feel brand new....and they should!
So I compared a new 50 to a new 55. If I was tracking the bike I would stick with a 55. I live in Florida. We need the larger center patch down here . I also like that tiny increase in gearing (smaller diameter tire). I also think the profile is better on the 50. It handles better than the 55.
:thumbs: :thumbs:
I agree with Mike here, and prefer the 190/50 rubber. I have also run 190/55 rear tires and I don't like them personally. I think this whole 55 series rear tire business on the C14 has been blown a bit out of proportion, but as with all things on the internet, I suppose that will happen....lol. Some folks will like 'em, some will not;).
Rem 8)
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We could always start on the cheaper, lighter, rounder, 180/55 series. We haven't had a discussion on that for awhile. 8)
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By the way, still waiting to hear about that ton-up highside.
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Raising the rear of the bike changes the rake and trail. Since I adjust my sag, I didn't notice a difference with the 55 except being a new tire. Either way, this bike is very planted in the curves, but doesn't handle quick transitions very well when loaded for touring.
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I've got a 55 on now but I can't tell the difference..
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Yep- exactly right about being blown out of proportion. For some reason, it is not enough to simply like something or just to not love it- a lot of people have to race to the extreme as fast as they can. Note that there is very little 'meh' feeling about KiPass for example; we must for an extremely strong opinion, right away, and scream it out as loudly as possible.
I prefer the /55 series but I would not say that they transform the bike into something magical. It is still a 700 lb. 'sport tourer' and nothing is going to cause it to turn in or transition like a liter sport bike.
Brian
<snip>
I agree with Mike here, and prefer the 190/50 rubber. I have also run 190/55 rear tires and I don't like them personally. I think this whole 55 series rear tire business on the C14 has been blown a bit out of proportion, but as with all things on the internet, I suppose that will happen....lol. Some folks will like 'em, some will not;).
Rem 8)
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Yep- exactly right about being blown out of proportion. For some reason, it is not enough to simply like something or just to not love it- a lot of people have to race to the extreme as fast as they can. Note that there is very little 'meh' feeling about KiPass for example; we must for an extremely strong opinion, right away, and scream it out as loudly as possible.
I prefer the /55 series but I would not say that they transform the bike into something magical. It is still a 700 lb. 'sport tourer' and nothing is going to cause it to turn in or transition like a liter sport bike.
Brian
I like KiPass but it is not a "must have" on any future bike of mine. So I guess I fall into that 'meh" category. Much of the KiPass stuff on this forum is a joke I think. Where's Steve? I also like the 55 better but my last PR-4 rear is a 50 simply because a 55 wasn't available. So the 55 obviously isn't a must have for me either. I just prefer it.
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The reason why it turns more easily is because the 55 series tire is narrower and has a more rounded profile. The wider and "flatter" a rear tire is, the "slower" the steering is.
The 50 series tire looks cool, but it doesn't help the handling of the bike at all.
My other bike is a Yamaha FZ1, and a lot of guys on those bikes change from the stock 50 series tire to a 55 series tire for the same reasons C14 owners do; the bike steers quicker and easier.
Technical point here: The /55 in the tire designation has nothing to do with the width of the tire. As for the contact patch...that's a different story...
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Technical point here: The /55 in the tire designation has nothing to do with the width of the tire. As for the contact patch...that's a different story...
The FJR has the same size tires as the C14 with the exception they use a 55 rear. I would guess that Kawi determined the C14 needed a larger contact patch to handle the greater HP and torque. In Colorado we have much reduced HP due to altitude. I like the slightly better feel in the turns with the 55 and don't miss the larger contact patch on acceleration.
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Oh Oh, different tire sizes making different contact patch area. That is almost entirely a function of tire pressure- more pressure, a smaller contact patch regardless of tire size.
The FJR uses a different size tire- a 180/55, which is the standard for the 5.5" wheel width on that bike. C-14's have a 6" wide rear wheel and use a 190/50 standard. Either tire can be used on either wheel but the width of the beads does affect the radius (cross- section radius) of the tire.
Brian
The FJR has the same size tires as the C14 with the exception they use a 55 rear. I would guess that Kawi determined the C14 needed a larger contact patch to handle the greater HP and torque. In Colorado we have much reduced HP due to altitude. I like the slightly better feel in the turns with the 55 and don't miss the larger contact patch on acceleration.
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:popcorn:
Of course...I am assuming all other aspects being equal...but, it is most definitely affected by profile...
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I've been finding myself with gloves and helmet on, when I notice my ZX14 key is burried in my pocket.
I have been spoiled with my fob after all. ;D
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Of course- everyone eventually sees the spectacularness of KiPass if they will only allow themselves to do so.
Paraphrased: Anyone who cannot see the greatness of KiPass is blind Sir, blind!
There is that internet excess we were just talking about, huh? ;D
Brian
I've been finding myself with gloves and helmet on, when I notice my ZX14 key is burried in my pocket.
I have been spoiled with my fob after all. ;D
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If you really want that larger contact patch for the flat roads in Florida (and elsewhere), spoon on a car tire! 8)
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:yikes:
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If you really want that larger contact patch for the flat roads in Florida (and elsewhere), spoon on a car tire! 8)
Oh no, don't say that.
"Oh no you didn't"
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I've been finding myself with gloves and helmet on, when I notice my ZX14 key is burried in my pocket.
I have been spoiled with my fob after all. ;D
Yes! Love the fob, but not a necessity. A luxury is nice every now and then.