Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Big Casino on June 26, 2014, 09:42:57 PM

Title: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Big Casino on June 26, 2014, 09:42:57 PM
I have a 2012, it isn't running smooth. Throttle response is not right either. the problems are subtle but they are there. Sitting still, but rotating the throttle slowly, the engine almost sounds like it is missing. It isn't really missing, but the thing just isn't smooth. I do have a slip on 2 Brothers, put it on to get rid of the bazooka factory pipe. Any suggestions? Took it to the dealer, but surprise surprise, they said it was fine.


Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: gPink on June 27, 2014, 03:39:13 AM
A 2012 C10? Just kidding. How was it before the slipon? Have you adjusted throttle cable free play?
What's your warm idle speed in? 1200 rpms seems to work well.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: maxtog on June 27, 2014, 07:24:45 AM
How was it before the slipon? Have you adjusted throttle cable free play?  What's your warm idle speed in? 1200 rpms seems to work well.

gPink has good ideas.  Also- are you sure the gas is high octane and "good"?  How long have you had the bike, and how many miles?  Do you only notice the issue when not in gear- does it remain when engaged?

Quote
Oh, and welcome to the forum.

Indeed, welcome!!
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: phildobaggins on June 27, 2014, 09:16:07 AM
Are you talking about the low rpm low speed popping/burbling after installing the 2brothers pipe? Mine does the same, I have a 2013 C14 with a 2brothers pipe. It sounds sick at low rpm, but I'd imagine that its prob just air getting in the exhaust causing the little sickly noises.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Big Casino on June 27, 2014, 06:14:07 PM
thanks for the replies! I have 15,250 miles on it. It acts up the worst when rotating the throttle. Been trying to figure out how to explain it, we were just on it, I can shift down to accelerate, have the rpm's up to 4000 to 5000, start to rotate slowly and it seems to almost bog down. It just doesn't have throttle response that it should. I think I get good gas, thought about running up to the airport to fill it up with avgas, fuel doesn't get any better than that these days. :) now, just sitting on it in the shop, up to temp, the dern thing almost seems to have a miss while rotating up to the 4 or 5 grand mark. I didn't notice any of this until some time after I put the slip on on. Thinking about reinstalling the bazooka to see if that changes anything. May just do that in a little while. Thanks again for your help everyone. Oh, I haven't adjusted the throttle at all.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: gPink on June 27, 2014, 06:21:24 PM
How does it act on the road at speed when you accelerate aggressively ?
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 27, 2014, 06:37:52 PM
Could be the fuel filter clogged in the pump.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Big Casino on June 27, 2014, 08:46:19 PM
a
Accelerating aggressive it seems to bog some, that is what I first noticed; but, I reinstalled the bazooka a little while ago and strangely enough, it seems like it runs a lot better. I will try it some more tomorrow after work. Is it pretty simple to get the fuel filter off the pump? Don't think I'm an idiot for asking, I do most of my own mechanic work, just wondering what I may be getting into before I pull the tank. THANKS AGAIN!!!!!
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 27, 2014, 08:54:00 PM
It would take some finagling I believe.  I'm getting ready to do mine but I have a spare pump and will rebuild the old one at my leisure.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Rembrant on June 28, 2014, 04:31:14 AM
Could be the fuel filter clogged in the pump.

It would take some finagling I believe.  I'm getting ready to do mine but I have a spare pump and will rebuild the old one at my leisure.

I'm with Jim here. If there's a hesitation or a loss of power (bike gags under load), and there are no fault warnings showing up on the dash, it's likely a fuel issue.

Fuel filter is easy to clean and/or change. I cleaned mine with brake cleaner and a tooth brush, but at about $15 new...I'll just replace it next time. Pop the tank off the bike, and as long as it is only half full or less, you can just tip the tank up, and remove the pump without losing any fuel. The rest of the work is done on the bench.

Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: DC Concours on June 28, 2014, 11:43:29 AM

... I didn't notice any of this until some time after I put the slip on on. Thinking about reinstalling the bazooka to see if that changes anything...

This was the new variable, why don't we see what happens.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Big Casino on June 28, 2014, 02:25:55 PM
I'm gonna give cleaning the filter a try. Thanks Rembrant and Virginia Jim!
Do y'all have slip on's? I know it is a matter of opinion, but which one do y'all think is best? Is it best to use a tuner with a slip on, or reflash the ecu, or just leave it alone?
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: maxtog on June 28, 2014, 02:47:46 PM
Do y'all have slip on's?

Lots of people on the forum do...  perhaps half (maybe more)?  I am in the half that doesn't (I think the stock looks fine, don't care about a few pounds of weight, and like the stock quiet sound).

Quote
I know it is a matter of opinion, but which one do y'all think is best? Is it best to use a tuner with a slip on, or reflash the ecu, or just leave it alone?

A muffler replacement will gain you a weight savings and is an aesthetic change change (looks/sound).  It doesn't impact performance enough to matter- for that, you would need more of a full exhaust system replacement (headers, front/mid/rear) usually while also losing the catalytic converter.   As such, there is really no need to "tune" or adjust anything.

But I do strongly recommend pulling out the secondary butterflies or reflashing the ECU to allow them to open much more and much sooner..... it will make a big performance difference and is the most bang for the buck and logical starting point for any future performance changes.  Plenty of threads about it.  This bike (like many) uses the secondary "flies" to impose pollution and EPA controls on the power band (as well a non-critical part of the traction control system).  On even newer bike designs, the computer has such control with drive-by-wire, so it can only be defeated with an ECU reflash.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 28, 2014, 03:06:57 PM
I have an Area P.  No issues.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Rembrant on June 28, 2014, 03:29:19 PM
I have an Area P.  No issues.

I'm quite fond of the Area-P product myself. I had an Area-P slip-on on my 08 C14, and now have an Area-P full system on my 2010 C14.
It's a nice looking, nice sounding, and nice fitting system at a reasonable price.

YMMV,
Rem 8)
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: gPink on June 28, 2014, 03:34:01 PM
I'm quite fond of the Area-P product myself. I had an Area-P slip-on on my 08 C14, and now have an Area-P full system on my 2010 C14.
It's a nice looking, nice sounding, and nice fitting system at a reasonable price.

YMMV,
Rem 8)
....if you don't mind waiting.  ;D
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Rembrant on June 28, 2014, 03:44:55 PM
....if you don't mind waiting.  ;D

Three days short of seven months...lol. Patience is a virtue they say. 8)

However, Area-P claims that they'll be a regular stocked item from now on.

Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Big Casino on June 28, 2014, 05:18:24 PM
Okeedokee! Really good info. I sure am liking this forum, by the way! Thanks! I have the tank off and the fuel pump out, but can't figure out how to get the dern filter off.... :'(
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: gPink on June 28, 2014, 05:42:14 PM
Okeedokee! Really good info. I sure am liking this forum, by the way! Thanks! I have the tank off and the fuel pump out, but can't figure out how to get the dern filter off.... :'(
Take a look here..... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7625.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7625.0)
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 28, 2014, 06:16:06 PM
Thanks, Gary.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Big Casino on June 28, 2014, 08:36:19 PM
Many thanks again to ya gPink and VirginiaJim, got that pesky fuel filter out; boy howdy was it dirty! gonna put it all back together tomorrow. will let ya know how it runs.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: maxtog on June 28, 2014, 11:09:16 PM
Got that pesky fuel filter out; boy howdy was it dirty! gonna put it all back together tomorrow. will let ya know how it runs.

That is scary it could be dirty on a 2012 with 15,000 miles!  What in the world is in our gas???
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Rembrant on June 29, 2014, 04:08:28 AM
That is scary it could be dirty on a 2012 with 15,000 miles!  What in the world is in our gas???

Exactly....what IS in that gas?...

A good friend of mine has a 2012 C14 with 35k miles on it, and he drained his tank and installed a new fuel filter this spring. He was not having problems....it was just a preventive measure. While on a trip a couple weeks ago down in North Carolina, he ran into fuel issues...bike gagging and stumbling hard under load. He pulled the tank in a hotel parking lot and cleaned the filter, and it was dirty with a slimey/gel like coating on it. Bike worked just fine again, and has ever since, for several thousand miles.

Rem :o
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: VirginiaJim on June 29, 2014, 06:33:14 AM
It's really a crap shoot when it comes to getting a batch of bad gas.  I try not to fill up when a tanker is doing it's number or when it's raining.  Other than that I try to use brand name stations.  FI helps but if it's really bad you're toast.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Big Casino on June 29, 2014, 10:18:07 PM
so far so good... havwe to take it for a ride tomorrow, but it seems better already!
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: clogan on June 30, 2014, 02:29:01 AM
That is scary it could be dirty on a 2012 with 15,000 miles!  What in the world is in our gas???

Ethanol!
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: maxtog on June 30, 2014, 05:32:45 AM
Ethanol!

Oooh, don't remind me.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Big Casino on June 30, 2014, 08:56:54 PM
Well...it's better, but still has a hesitation at 4 to 5 grand when rotating the throttle. I put the 2 brother's back on, it seemed better with the stock bazooka. does that make any sense to y'all? I sure idles a lot better now. Going for avgas tomorrow after the ole grind stone!
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: maxtog on June 30, 2014, 10:45:10 PM
Well...it's better, but still has a hesitation at 4 to 5 grand when rotating the throttle. I put the 2 brother's back on, it seemed better with the stock bazooka. does that make any sense to y'all? I sure idles a lot better now. Going for avgas tomorrow after the ole grind stone!

You never really answered the original question of if you think it is worse now (with replacement muffler) than before you [originally] replaced the muffler.  If the answer is no, then you are probably just feeling the stock lag imposed by the  secondary flies.  If yes, then I can't say... unless the muffler is somehow defective (more restrictive than stock... being possibly less restrictive doesn't matter much, since you still have the factory pipes, factory cat, factory headers).  Of course, there is a complex science to the stuff- the stock entire exhaust system is flow tuned and designed as a unit... replacing only part of it (even if less restrictive) can cause unusual (or at least unpredictable) effects at certain RPM.  Or, you have developed some new issue that is unrelated (hence the direction change to fuel, fuel filter, etc).
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: 556ALPHA on July 01, 2014, 02:32:06 PM
I doubt it would be an issue but have you checked your ground connections?
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: VirginiaJim on July 01, 2014, 02:56:28 PM
Replacing a battery sometimes helps... ::)
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: gPink on July 01, 2014, 03:21:47 PM
Replacing a battery sometimes helps... ::)
I wonder which one?
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Rembrant on July 01, 2014, 04:36:05 PM
Well...it's better, but still has a hesitation at 4 to 5 grand when rotating the throttle. I put the 2 brother's back on, it seemed better with the stock bazooka. does that make any sense to y'all? I sure idles a lot better now. Going for avgas tomorrow after the ole grind stone!

Is this hesitation/miss happening when you rev it in neutral, or only when riding with a load on the engine?

It likely seems better with the stock muffler because it's much quieter. The aftermarket muffler won't affect much, but it's not uncommon to require an idle adjustment after installing any aftermarket exhaust.

15k Miles? I assume you've changed the air filter by now?
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Big Casino on July 01, 2014, 09:45:15 PM
It happens while reving in neutral, have replaced the air filter. I agree now, it is just more noticeable with the replacement muffler. Sorry Maxtog, I had not noticed any of this until I put the aftermarket exhaust on. i'm gonna work on taking those flies out after the 4th ride. Also a reflash and whatever else y'all recommend.
Thanks again...y'all are great and a big help. Sure enjoy this forum!
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: maxtog on July 02, 2014, 05:45:32 AM
It happens while reving in neutral, have replaced the air filter. I agree now, it is just more noticeable with the replacement muffler. Sorry Maxtog, I had not noticed any of this until I put the aftermarket exhaust on. i'm gonna work on taking those flies out after the 4th ride. Also a reflash and whatever else y'all recommend.
Thanks again...y'all are great and a big help. Sure enjoy this forum!

You won't be disappointed.  I suspected you were describing some of the stock behavior.  Although it really doesn't matter what it is doing in neutral :)  Anyway, you just have to decide if you are handy and want to physically remove the flies, or if you want to spend several hundred dollars for the ECU flash.  If you plan to maybe do other performance mods (exhaust system, throttle bodies, etc), then it will require a PC and so it makes sense to physically remove the flies.  If you don't plan such mods and want easy/clean/simple then go for the reflash.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: VirginiaJim on July 02, 2014, 06:02:37 AM
I wonder which one?

All of them.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Big Casino on July 02, 2014, 06:57:32 PM
Forgive me for the ignorance...but what is a pc?
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: VirginiaJim on July 02, 2014, 07:13:01 PM
It's that thing at work you type on, I have one (actually several) at home....

PC - Power Commander used to modify your bike's settings on fuel mappings..

http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander_ex/ (http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander_ex/)
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: Big Casino on July 02, 2014, 08:58:07 PM
Duh...now I really think that you think I'm a goof ball. Thanks, I had a Power Commander on my V-Strom.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: maxtog on July 02, 2014, 09:19:22 PM
Duh...now I really think that you think I'm a goof ball. Thanks, I had a Power Commander on my V-Strom.

It is my fault, I probably should have used the whole wording.  So many acronyms and abbreviations nowadays.
Title: Re: not a smooth running Connie
Post by: VirginiaJim on July 03, 2014, 04:01:33 AM
Duh...now I really think that you think I'm a goof ball. Thanks, I had a Power Commander on my V-Strom.

Quite a few of the members here are goof balls and I include myself in that category.. :banana