Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: dw4402 on June 13, 2014, 09:20:17 PM
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Just returned from our annual trip to Deals Gap. This was our (mine and Corrine's) 7th consecutive trip. I trailered her up the first time in 2008 and have ridden her up there every year since. While there this year, I got to 50,000 miles while on the Blue Ridge Pky. Here's my point: In 7 years of riding my C14 to NC from central FL, along with my regular riding here in the sunshine (read hot) state, I have not had ANY failures with my bike. No KIPASS failure, no final drive failure, I have never had to add oil to her between oil changes, none of my bags has ever flown off or any of the other horror stories I have read on various forums. Call it luck or blessings, but I believe it starts with a great design by KHI coupled with proper and regular maintenance. I don't skimp by using cheap oil or any other cheap products and always use at least 92 octane fuel. I have no doubt that Corrine easily has another 50k plus miles in her, and I look forward to them.
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:chugbeer: to 50,000 more (safe) miles 8)
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Nice! I've had zero drama with my '10 and it just rolled over 87k. The mad pow-ah of KiPass RULES!
Oh and I do use cheap oil, Rotella T6 synth. At 200k miles I plan to part mine out on eBay ;D
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Same here. I've got just over 51,000 miles on my 11, and other than regular maintenance, I've had zero problems. Hey dw4402, I just got back on Monday from riding the Blue Ridge for over a week. Maybe I saw you!
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I've only accumulated a bit over 20,000 on mine so far, but am hoping to have a similar story to you guys one day. But here's a question that I'll sotra pose to myself: why do I feel that 50,000 trouble free mile on a motorcycle is particularly noteworthy? After some reflection, isn't 50,000 a pretty low threshhold when I think about it? I mean, I don't say similar stuff about my car. My car, or truck, would have to hit 200 thou, or maybe 300K, before I'd talk of it with similar admiration. Plus, if I'm honest with myself, my bikes get better maintenance, and better general care, than do my autos.
Is my expectation level for my bike set too low? I think maybe it is.
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Nice! I've had zero drama with my '10 and it just rolled over 87k. The mad pow-ah of KiPass RULES!
Oh and I do use cheap oil, Rotella T6 synth. At 200k miles I plan to part mine out on eBay ;D
I got the Rotella going too. Only 50 K since I got her in 2011. I feel like I an slacking com[pared to y'all. Damn work gets in the way.
I am very happy with the bike and see 50K more racking up just as fast. Then I may have to find a gently used 12 or 13
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Here's my point: In 7 years of riding my C14 to NC from central FL, along with my regular riding here in the sunshine (read hot) state, I have not had ANY failures with my bike. No KIPASS failure, no final drive failure, I have never had to add oil to her between oil changes, none of my bags has ever flown off or any of the other horror stories I have read on various forums.
This past year i have agonized on whether i should trade in my 08 for a BMW k1600. Everyone raves about how great it performs. After monitoring their forum for the past 6 to 8 months, you would not believe the mechanical failures they have with that bike. Forget 50 000 miles, most never get close to that before they're down with serious issues and sit in the garage awaiting parts and repair. Although it's usually water pump issues, there are many other failures popping up as well.
Owning my 1400 has been trouble-free for me as well. I simply cannot trade in a perfectly good bike for a $30,000 headache.
I guess I'm keeping my 1400, but if they come out with a new model in the near future, i will definitely take a look.
mat
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I have found Kawasaki drivetrains to be bulletproof as long as conservative and timely maintenance is followed. I have always been a fan of the Rotella and the 1974 Z-1 that I have owned since I was 21 still likes to boogie like new. The drive train cases on that bike have never been opened other than valve shim swaps every 30k, and it still has the original clutch and dual point ignition after 40 years. I fully expect this C-14 to go 300k with no sweat.
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122,000 miles so far, no problems, never been in shop except for bag latch recall. Rotella and 89 octane.
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122,000 miles so far, no problems, never been in shop except for bag latch recall. Rotella and 89 octane.
How often do you check the valves?
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why do I feel that 50,000 trouble free mile on a motorcycle is particularly noteworthy? After some reflection, isn't 50,000 a pretty low threshhold when I think about it? I mean, I don't say similar stuff about my car. My car, or truck, would have to hit 200 thou, or maybe 300K, before I'd talk of it with similar admiration.
Several factors contribute
1) Bikes are technologically further behind cars.
2) Bikes usually see more time sitting unused, which means the miles on them typically represent a much longer period of time. Time = deterioration.
3) The longer sitting also means more time for harder starts (where oil has more time to drain) and less "exercise".
4) There are lots of compromises with bike designs due to weight and space- perhaps smaller fluid capacities, smaller cooling systems, smaller everything (compared to the per-liter size for a car).
5) Higher performance tradeoffs for bikes usually mean a higher-than-'typical' pushing of power per cc, which places more stress on the engine, more heat, more wear.
6) Many of the parts of the bike are more exposed to the weather and contaminates than cars.
7) Servicing bikes is typically much harder and more expensive than cars, so many people probably put off service a little more.
8 ) Most bikes have a very low warranty (because the industry dictates it), and so quality of construction in some respects is probably lower than for cars (which typically have much longer warranties).
That said- compared to most bikes on the road, the Concours is a more expensive bike, a higher quality build, has a longer warranty, has better protection for many of the components, is designed for higher reliability and longevity, is usually driven more per time period due to owner demographics/bike comfort/protection, and the owner demographic is older/more responsible/more able and willing to spend the time and money for proper maintenance.
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^^^ :o
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^^^ :o
Oh, come on Martin...makes perfect sense to me. :)
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^^^ :o
What about what I wrote do you find :o ?
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Don't know that I can totally agree with your points there, Max, but in general, you are probably right.
Several factors contribute
1) Bikes are technologically further behind cars. My cars don't have VVT
2) Bikes usually see more time sitting unused, which means the miles on them typically represent a much longer period of time. Time = deterioration. I ride my bike almost daily; my cars often sit for a month at a time between starts
3) The longer sitting also means more time for harder starts (where oil has more time to drain) and less "exercise". See #2, above
4) There are lots of compromises with bike designs due to weight and space- perhaps smaller fluid capacities, smaller cooling systems, smaller everything (compared to the per-liter size for a car). Perhaps, true
5) Higher performance tradeoffs for bikes usually mean a higher-than-'typical' pushing of power per cc, which places more stress on the engine, more heat, more wear. Often true, however my car also generates approx 100 hp/ liter displacement
6) Many of the parts of the bike are more exposed to the weather and contaminates than cars. Maybe, if one rides regularly in the rain, and/or never washes the bike.
7) Servicing bikes is typically much harder and more expensive than cars, so many people probably put off service a little more. Access to air filter is a bit tougher on C14 than a car; valve adj is waaay tougher, but brake service is easier.
8 ) Most bikes have a very low warranty (because the industry dictates it), and so quality of construction in some respects is probably lower than for cars (which typically have much longer warranties). With 3/36 warranty, my Corvette base warranty was poorer than C14; extensions and renewals were far more expensive as well
That said- compared to most bikes on the road, the Concours is a more expensive bike, a higher quality build, has a longer warranty, has better protection for many of the components, is designed for higher reliability and longevity, is usually driven more per time period due to owner demographics/bike comfort/protection, and the owner demographic is older/more responsible/more able and willing to spend the time and money for proper maintenance.
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Don't know that I can totally agree with your points there, Max, but in general, you are probably right.
Well, I wouldn't expect total agreement :) But I will address some of your observations:
My cars don't have VVT
That is a pretty small sample size. The last two cars I have had over 15 years have been VVT, and the technology has been out and used in many cars many more years prior to that... all of which is much longer than on bikes. I believe the Concours is the only Kawasaki with VVT, and one the the few models out there at all with it.
I ride my bike almost daily; my cars often sit for a month at a time between starts
Indeed. But that is why I said "usually". I am making some overall generalizations as to why one would except bike longevity to be lower than cars. Most of them the topics I list are easy to find exceptions; but in aggregate, the generalizations are correct. In this case, bikes typically sit unused much longer than cars do.
With 3/36 warranty, my Corvette base warranty was poorer than C14; extensions and renewals were far more expensive as well
Again, we are talking generalizations. I will illustrate. Hyundai cars: 5 years + 10 powertrain. Mitbishubi: 5 years + 10 powertrain. Kia: 5 years + 10 powertrain. Buick: 4 years + 6 powertrain. Infiniti: 4 years + 6 powertrain. Volvo: 4 years. GMC: 3 years + 5 powertrain. In fact, check it out yourself: http://www.car.com/content/research/warranty/index.cfm?id=24093;ccom (http://www.car.com/content/research/warranty/index.cfm?id=24093;ccom) not a single "normal" car with less than 3 years and most also have powertrain warranties even longer.
Now lets look at typical bikes. Kawasaki 1 year (except on the Concours). Yamaha: 1 year. Honda: 1 year. Suzuki: 1 year. BMW: 3 years.
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My Prius has VVT.
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batteries have valves?
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It's a hybrid you Twit. It has a gasoline engine 1.8 litre and hydraulic lifters thank God, much smoother than the last Prius.
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Along with cruise control and self-canceling turn signals, let's ask Big K for hydraulic lifters on the 2016 Connie ( it's probably too late for 2015 already). A new design cam chain would be nice too.
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Along with cruise control and self-canceling turn signals, let's ask Big K for hydraulic lifters on the 2016 Connie ( it's probably too late for 2015 already). A new design cam chain would be nice too.
as long as they don't take the rattling, crunching and grinding noises with the redesign. A C14 may sound as solid as a HONDA is they did ;D
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as long as they don't take the rattling, crunching and grinding noises with the redesign. A C14 may sound as solid as a HONDA is they did ;D
It's my only gripe and a source for constant derisive comments from my riding cronies. Mostly "why don't you get that fixed with your 3 year warranty?" I tell them it's a normal noise and nothing needs fixing and then I get that look of "oh, is that right?" I guess I will have to ride alone with my shame..
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While hydraulic lifters would be nice, I would think that a larger displacement engine would be needed to keep the status quo on HP. Are there any sport tourers out there with hydraulic lifters? I know that I make a point to buy vehicles that have timing chains over belts.
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It's my only gripe and a source for constant derisive comments from my riding cronies. Mostly "why don't you get that fixed with your 3 year warranty?" I tell them it's a normal noise and nothing needs fixing and then I get that look of "oh, is that right?" I guess I will have to ride alone with my shame..
Supposedly if you start the bike on the center stand you don't get the noise. Parking the bike on the CS out in the 'world' is not recommended though. YMMV
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The tensioner noise occurs on my bike on the side and center stands. This noise or lack thereof can be different from bike to bike on start up. C is correct on using the center stand in the wild on asphalt. The stand will sink in to the asphalt on hot days and may cause the bike to fall over. Using the CS on concrete is fine.
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Supposedly if you start the bike on the center stand you don't get the noise. Parking the bike on the CS out in the 'world' is not recommended though. YMMV
I get the noise no matter what for a good 5-10 seconds after start up.
Back on topic: I remember the days when 100,000 miles on a car was considered a very high mileage car and 50,000 miles on a bike means it had probably been overhauled at least once. Now I have 46K on my 2010 and with nothing but oil changes, tires and 1 valve check (they were well in range and I didn't change a thing).
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Well, like I say, Max is probably right.
But, as for me, I'm still not particularly impressed by any Japanese bike that makes it all the way to 50,000 miles with no trouble. 250k, maybe, but not a measly little old 50,000. I just have higher expectations.
Now, if we were talking Harley, on the other hand...
::)
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as long as they don't take the rattling, crunching and grinding noises with the redesign. A C14 may sound as solid as a HONDA is they did ;D
+1 I love my C14 but it is one of the worst sounding bikes on the planet.
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This is a timely topic as I am looking at 08, 53,000 mile machine. A ton of farkles and has been well maintained according to owner. $6000. Not sure if I want that high of miles though
Wayne
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Another 1500 would find you one with half the mileage. Maybe less farkles though.
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they make a manual tensioner for the Zx14 thats silent. I never put one on mine, I didn't want it to sound as good as a Honda.
That reminds me, I sure miss my friend Sherry i used to ride that ZX14 bike with.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/darrens/sherri_mybike.jpg)
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Steve, I miss her too. 8)