Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Beachbum on May 31, 2014, 10:08:04 PM
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Brand new member and new owner of a 2008 non-ABS C14 with 13K mi. Even though I purchased the bike and live in Washington state I learned after the purchase from a private party that mine is a California model. My questions are:
- What are the differences between Cal and 50-state versions in terms of weight, power, maintenance, reliability?
- Is it possible to de-California-ize a C14 and, if so, is it worth doing?
- Is the process documented anywhere?
I'm a former FJR owner and so far my impression is that the C14 is a superior ride in most ways. My only complaint is a balky gearbox; vague feel at the shifter and difficult to find neutral. My idle speed is set a little high so that might be the cause of some of it. Is this a common experience and, if not, what could be the cause.
I purchased a genuine Kawi service manual and fully intend to learn as much as possible about the bike and do all my own wrenching so hopefully I'll be able to start providing answers soon.
Thanks for you help.
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Welcome! Can't help you with your questions as I find the C14 has a superior gear box, no problems with the shifter except for not wanting to show the correct gear on the display, and no difficulty at all finding neutral. What oil is in the bike (oil thread!) would be my question. As far as the CA emissions go, as far as I know it is not a detriment to performance.
- Virtually no weight difference, power difference (if any), maintenance. Certainly no difference in reliability.
- Yes. I don't think so. If it were my bike I'd leave it all in but that's me.
- I'm not sure we have documented it here. I don't remember that if we did and I've been here awhile. If you want to do it and document it then by all means. The manual should be the resource to go to in removing the emissions equipment should you want to move forward with that.
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From what I remember reading, the ONLY difference with the CA model is the presence of a charcoal canister (fuel vapor collector). It takes a little space, weighs only a few pounds, and doesn't affect performance in any way. There is no reason to remove it unless you need to space to mount something, like a cruise control.
Otherwise, emissions & EPA control is the same on all models- and it is primarily done through the secondary butterflies allowing the computer to "tame" and "shape" acceleration. Removing those (or disabling them with the Guhl flash) will make a huge difference in performance.
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Nancy Pelosi will hate you if you remove that canister ;D
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Over 7,000 miles on 20w-50w Royal Purple bike oil , still shifts like BUTTER, no problem with neutral shift while still moving, once stopped anyone one can find it, It has a positive neutral finder, I'm positive :chugbeer:
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Brand new member and new owner of a 2008 non-ABS C14 with 13K mi. Even though I purchased the bike and live in Washington state I learned after the purchase from a private party that mine is a California model. My questions are:
- What are the differences between Cal and 50-state versions in terms of weight, power, maintenance, reliability?
- Is it possible to de-California-ize a C14 and, if so, is it worth doing?
- Is the process documented anywhere?
I have an 09 and removed mine for 2 reasons. 1) make room for a cruise control installation. 2) Make room for the aftermarket foam heat blocker on the right side.
The system consists of the canister and a fuel vapor/condenser (referred to as a "Separator" in the repair manual) plus the hoses that connect things together. If you remove the canister and separator you need to manage the open hoses.
Two hoses run to the intake manifold. One of these hoses sucks vapor from the canister. The other is connected to the bottom of the separator. I think this hose provides some sort of pumping action to the separator to pump liquid fuel that condensed in the separator back to the gas tank. There is a return line back to the gas tank. Two hoses connect to the gas tank. One is a vent. The other is the return line from the separator.
Look at the service manual 17-74 Appendix page. It shows the system components and hose diagram. What I did...
1) Remove 3 - the canister
2) Remove 12 - The separator
3) Remove hose 10 and cap the fitting at the gas tank. This is the return line.
4) Join hose 9 & 13. This is the gas tank vent. For the heck of it I put a small fuel filter on the open end to prevent unwanted stuff from entering the gas tank.
5) Plug hoses 8 and 14. These run to the intake manifold and are no longer needed.
This worked for me. No performance issues. Can fuel the bike as full as possible and no issues with fumes in a hot garage.
Mark[/list]
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Thanks, Mark.
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Great stuff everyone. Very much appreciated.
RE: shifting issue; VJ asked about type of oil; I use Motul 300V which is very good oil. I'm pretty sure that is not the problem. It's worse when cold. Update: I've lowered the idle speed down to the recommended 1050rpm - it was at 1250. This seems to have helped a little.
More specifically, here's what's going on:
UPshifts-
1st to 2nd; barely feel anything in the lever, but it does change gears.
2nd to 3rd; pretty serious "clunk" and stiff movement at the lever.
3rd to 4th/4th to 5th; nice, slick shifts with great feedback
DOWNshifts-
When attempting to locate neutral from 2nd, the transmission often bypasses neutral and drops directly into 1st no matter how lightly I nudge the lever. Then I have to go from 1st to 2nd, and 2nd back to 1st a few times before I can find neutral. Again, this is worse when it's cold. Also, I can rarely find neutral from 1st. I can find it far more often from 2nd.
If anyone else has this issue I would love to hear about it. The previous owner was a novice rider and I'm concerned that there was some abuse of the gearbox. It also might be a clutch problem; as in, sticking plates causing drag on the gears or other clutch issues.
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3rd to 4th/4th to 5th; nice, slick shifts with great feedback
you know there's a 6ht in this bike, right? ;D
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Great stuff everyone. Very much appreciated.
RE: shifting issue; VJ asked about type of oil; I use Motul 300V which is very good oil. I'm pretty sure that is not the problem. It's worse when cold. Update: I've lowered the idle speed down to the recommended 1050rpm - it was at 1250. This seems to have helped a little.
We've found quite the opposite. The warm idle should be roughly 1200 or it may stall out when cold. Seems odd that you are seeing the reverse effect. If shifting is worse when cold as is the oil and gets better when warm, I'm thinking oil. Quite a few of us run Mobil1 4T 10w-40 Racing and have no issues with that. Are you using 10w-40 or some other weight?
UPshifts-
1st to 2nd; barely feel anything in the lever, but it does change gears.
2nd to 3rd; pretty serious "clunk" and stiff movement at the lever.
3rd to 4th/4th to 5th; nice, slick shifts with great feedback
/quote]
Ain't normal for clunking except going from neutral to 1st...something is wrong...still could be oil...but it could be the gearbox. Don't like the sound of that.
DOWNshifts-
When attempting to locate neutral from 2nd, the transmission often bypasses neutral and drops directly into 1st no matter how lightly I nudge the lever. Then I have to go from 1st to 2nd, and 2nd back to 1st a few times before I can find neutral. Again, this is worse when it's cold. Also, I can rarely find neutral from 1st. I can find it far more often from 2nd.
If anyone else has this issue I would love to hear about it. The previous owner was a novice rider and I'm concerned that there was some abuse of the gearbox. It also might be a clutch problem; as in, sticking plates causing drag on the gears or other clutch issues.
I've never had any issues finding neutral from first. Second on the other hand, has always been a bit dicey for me finding neutral.
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edit off ;D
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Thanks.
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Yes, martin... I do know there's a 6th. But I have to admit that I went about 35 miles on the freeway before I figured that out.
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You would not be the only one..
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I read that the there is a different ecu for CA bikes (different part number). I have no idea if they might have slightly different tuning.
Shifter- get that pos plastic bushing out of the shifter and replace with a ball bearing one from Murphs. Takes about 15 minutes to do.