Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: BWDenver on May 09, 2014, 05:01:41 AM

Title: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: BWDenver on May 09, 2014, 05:01:41 AM
I replaced my windscreen on my 2013 C14 with a Cal Sci screen a few weeks back.  And since then it has been nothing but problems.  The directions make it quite clear that 4 Ft Lb of torque is all you can put on these.

I went on a very rough patch of street and one of the parts flew off the bike.  When I got home the windscreen was actually cracked around the factory holes.  I stop drilled them and hopefully this will be ok, so long as I can get the hold down brackets to work.

The hold down brackets last about 30 miles then crack near the screw attaching points.  The last set was put on with 3.5 Ft Lb of torque, and lots of Lock Tight.

The problem is either the Kawasaki parts, or the Cal Sci windscreen as the holes are drilled in the Plex just slightly off from where the factory holes go.   The Kawasaki part has a pronounced Bow in it, and this might be contributing to the problem, or the windscreen is not as curved as the OEM part and the stress near the screw holes is causing the damage.

These things keep cracking.  Does anyone make a set of billet aluminum parts?  I’ve contacted a number of machine shops to get replacements made.

Any ideas or help would be appreciated.  I live in the Northern Virginia area in the US.

The real interesting thing is it is quieter without the windscreen then with it! 

But less fun in the rain…
Regards,

Bryan
Manassas VA
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: Conrad on May 09, 2014, 05:10:24 AM
I don't know what 's going on with your screen but I'll tell you about the issue that I had with my CalSci screen.

I have the tinted shorty and the screen is not as thick as the stock screen in the mounting hole area. I had to add some fiber washers to make up the difference in thickness. If you're not doing that on yours that may be part of the problem.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: jirod on May 09, 2014, 06:45:47 AM
<Snip>
The hold down brackets last about 30 miles then crack near the screw attaching points.  The last set was put on with 3.5 Ft Lb of torque, and lots of Lock Tight.
<Snip>

The cracking problem is most likely caused by the Loctite.  Cyanoacrylates attack polycarbonate and other plastics and cause from hairline cracks to outright disintegration of the part. I destroyed a GPS mount by using Loctite.  I am sure you remembered to assemble the black rubbery gasket, so that should not be a factor. Other than Loctite and gasket, the shape of the windscreen and the thickness Conrad mentioned are the next things I would look at. You might have a claim against CalSci. Ride safe.

Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: B.D.F. on May 09, 2014, 08:12:31 AM
First off, I think you should contact CalSci about this rather than looking into custom parts. There is most likely a problem or misunderstanding at the root of all of this and I think Mark and you could get to the bottom of it and solve the problem(s). After that, CalSci seems to have pretty good customer service and I am sure they will make some effort to satisfy you regarding this windshield.

As a side note, I have had a CalSci +6 on my bike since 2007 and for something like 90K miles without incident. One example is useless but there are a lot of CalSci windshields out there being used successfully so that would seem to indicate that yours may be a specific case that is unusual and absolutely solvable. IMO of course.

Brian

I replaced my windscreen on my 2013 C14 with a Cal Sci screen a few weeks back.  And since then it has been nothing but problems.  The directions make it quite clear that 4 Ft Lb of torque is all you can put on these.

I went on a very rough patch of street and one of the parts flew off the bike.  When I got home the windscreen was actually cracked around the factory holes.  I stop drilled them and hopefully this will be ok, so long as I can get the hold down brackets to work.

The hold down brackets last about 30 miles then crack near the screw attaching points.  The last set was put on with 3.5 Ft Lb of torque, and lots of Lock Tight.

The problem is either the Kawasaki parts, or the Cal Sci windscreen as the holes are drilled in the Plex just slightly off from where the factory holes go.   The Kawasaki part has a pronounced Bow in it, and this might be contributing to the problem, or the windscreen is not as curved as the OEM part and the stress near the screw holes is causing the damage.

These things keep cracking.  Does anyone make a set of billet aluminum parts?  I’ve contacted a number of machine shops to get replacements made.

Any ideas or help would be appreciated.  I live in the Northern Virginia area in the US.

The real interesting thing is it is quieter without the windscreen then with it! 

But less fun in the rain…
Regards,

Bryan
Manassas VA
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: BWDenver on May 10, 2014, 03:59:31 PM
The root cause of the problem is the Kawasaki windscreen has a compound curve, the C-14 CalSci windscreen is fairly flat and only curves left to right in the area of the mount. 

The Brackets for the OEM windscreen are also curved, to the tune of 0.112" bow in the middle.  That is what is causing the problem.  When the screws are torque down, all the force was being transmitted at the ends of the brackets near the screw holes.  They only lasted about 30 miles. 

An email from Mark indicated I'm not the only one who has had this issue with the C-14 windscreen.  But he was not help full in a fix.  His product is good, but it is not the same contours as the OEM screen.

So I spent a day thinking about it and remembered that Ansell Adams used his microwave to dry test prints.  So after some playing around with a Brocken part, 3 1/2 minutes at high and the polymer was sufficiently heated to reset the shape.  I pulled the parts out of the microwave, wife was thankfully away, and forced the re-bend before I locked it onto a piece of wood with recesses for the screw guides.  When they cooled they retained the nearly flat profile.

Not sure if anyone else riding a C-14 has this problem with aftermarket windscreens, but the fix is simple enough.  I just have to sand some wood fillers to take the bow out of the mounting points on the bile.  Popsicle sticks and a sander should work to remove the gaps on the bike side of the windscreen, and support the windscreen to prevent cracking.

See the additional shots.

Hope this can help other folks.

Bryan
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: VirginiaJim on May 10, 2014, 06:43:45 PM
Note to self, don't buy Calsci.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: jirod on May 10, 2014, 07:05:55 PM
BWDenver, thanks for posting the failure cause and your clever fix. CalSci does say it fits fhe Concours and have links to posts singing the praises of their product and customer service. Now they admit they know customers are having trouble with their products. Let's see how long they stay in business.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: gPink on May 10, 2014, 07:27:19 PM
My calsi fits as it should. Wouldn't mind seeing the email.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: Tremainiac on May 10, 2014, 07:45:05 PM
You sure you weren't mounting the brackets upside down/ reversed. I seem to remember when I first mounted mine they fit oddly. That was it. They will fit, but the tension was wrong.
Assume they would have cracked down the road if I hadn't caught my mistake.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: Gsun on May 10, 2014, 09:35:52 PM
Had my Cal Sci on for a couple of years. No problems. Take it off and put it on as well.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: RBX QB on May 10, 2014, 10:40:23 PM
Had my Cal Sci on for a couple of years. No problems. Take it off and put it on as well.

+1... No issues with 2 different sizes.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: Conrad on May 11, 2014, 07:02:13 AM
You sure you weren't mounting the brackets upside down/ reversed. I seem to remember when I first mounted mine they fit oddly. That was it. They will fit, but the tension was wrong.
Assume they would have cracked down the road if I hadn't caught my mistake.

If you'll take a look at the bottom side of the brackets you'll see that they are marked left and right with an arrow pointing to the front of the bike. The rubber gaskets mount accordingly. 
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: Tremainiac on May 11, 2014, 09:30:40 AM
Which side is left...  ::)
Port and starboard make so much sense on any vehicle...
 :battle:
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: just gone on May 11, 2014, 01:38:44 PM
I had the CalSci Medium and had no install problems. It didn't solve my back pressure problem so I finally removed it.

 The OEM black plastic covers are easily mis-mounted so be sure to look at the insides of them to make sure you are doing it
correctly. The FWD arrow points forward or down towards the front fender if you prefer, and the left and right are relative to the direction of travel or rider's left and right when sitting on the bike. Participate in the free to try windshield exchange and you'll become an expert at installing windshields and at not losing the white nylon washer under the middle screw.  :)

Which side is left...  ::)
Port and starboard make so much sense on any vehicle...
 :battle: 
  errr...for landlubbers....same problem with different names.  :banghead:   ;D
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: maxtog on May 11, 2014, 02:47:38 PM
Which side is left...  ::)
Port and starboard make so much sense on any vehicle...

Nah.  On motor vehicles, direction reference is ALWAYS from the driver's seated/driving perspective.  Don't be throwing any of that freaking nautical stuff in here... next thing you know, you will want us to relate speed in knots or elevation in fathoms or something.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: B.D.F. on May 11, 2014, 03:37:47 PM
Yes, from the driver's / operator's point of view when that device is being used. Fine for things like motorcycles, aircraft (even a helicopter flying backwards has the same left / right orientation), autos, dirigibles ad nauseum. The one that is most interesting and unusual I think is a backhoe: because the operators' seat spins 180 degrees, the right / left side can become somewhat confusing. For example, on each side of the machine, immediately behind the rear tires, are two outriggers that lift the back of the machine off the ground for digging. Now here is the interesting part: the right outrigger is located behind the left tire and vice- versa. And of course when swinging the boom (the entire backhoe actually) to the left, it gets closer to the right fender.... and so forth. Which generates a lot of "No, your other left!" when they are being worked on....

 ;) ;D

And remembering which side is which color and which nautical term is easy: the three short words go together: port, left, red. Green, starboard and right are on the other side.

Brian

Nah.  On motor vehicles, direction reference is ALWAYS from the driver's seated/driving perspective.  Don't be throwing any of that freaking nautical stuff in here... next thing you know, you will want us to relate speed in knots or elevation in fathoms or something.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: Conniesaki on May 12, 2014, 04:04:17 PM
Nah.  On motor vehicles, direction reference is ALWAYS from the driver's seated/driving perspective.  Don't be throwing any of that freaking nautical stuff in here... next thing you know, you will want us to relate speed in knots or elevation in fathoms or something.

I just knew that the original port / starboard post was either you posting under an alias ... or, if not, you'd have to respond to it in some way ;)

I just read where a person's 'success' is largely determined by how conscientious that person is. By my understanding of the word conscientious, you should be extremely successful, Max  ;D  :o  :P

I patiently await correction as to my understanding of the word conscientious  :-\  :-[  ;D  >:(  :o
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: B.D.F. on May 12, 2014, 04:09:03 PM
Are you sure you spelled that correctly? I always though it was contentious.....

 :rotflmao:

Brian

I just knew that the original port / starboard post was either you posting under an alias ... or, if not, you'd have to respond to it in some way ;)

I just read where a person's 'success' is largely determined by how conscientious that person is. By my understanding of the word conscientious, you should be extremely successful, Max  ;D  :o  :P

I patiently await correction as to my understanding of the word conscientious  :-\  :-[  ;D  >:(  :o
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: maxtog on May 12, 2014, 04:20:35 PM
I just knew that the original port / starboard post was either you posting under an alias ... or, if not, you'd have to respond to it in some way ;)

Gotta keep it entertaining
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: VirginiaJim on May 12, 2014, 05:16:10 PM
 :)
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: Tremainiac on May 12, 2014, 07:43:17 PM
No alias.
Like M&Ms and Santa, I do exist.
Knots as speed reference not needed unless you're approaching subsets of Mach 1.
 :chugbeer:
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: PH14 on May 12, 2014, 08:15:18 PM
I have had my CalSci since 2010 and have had no issues. The best way to ensure you are putting g
 the pieces back on correctly is to. One their respective positions when you remove them. I love my CalSci.

Edit: Please disregard above gibberish.  ;D It should have read: The best way to ensure you are putting
 the pieces back on correctly is to note their respective positions when you remove them.

Damn phone and bad eyesight.  :doh:
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: just gone on May 13, 2014, 12:54:48 PM
The best way to ensure you are putting g the pieces back on correctly is to. One their respective positions when you remove them.

aaaah......yeah that clears it up.  ???
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: B.D.F. on May 13, 2014, 01:24:25 PM
Well, there is always the old standby..... 'No, your other left.'

But if there really is any confusion, the windshield cover marked 'L' goes on the same side of the bike as the clutch lever. And the arrow points forward.... which in this case is more downward than forward but if you put it on the other way, it actually points backwards.

If all of that is not enough, look in the manual to see how Kawasaki tends to assemble these things.

And as far as the heating / bending / altering the covers to work with a CalSci windshield: glad that worked for you but my stock windshield covers fit my CalSci windshield perfectly as far as I can tell and the use of the two components together for seven years has not resulted in any cracks or problems. I do not know what is or has happened in your mixing of the same parts (CalSci windshield and stock windshield bracket covers).

Brian

aaaah......yeah that clears it up.  ???
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: Tremainiac on May 13, 2014, 04:06:01 PM
But if there really is any confusion, the windshield cover marked 'L' goes on the same side of the bike as the clutch lever. And the arrow points forward.... which in this case is more downward than forward but if you put it on the other way, it actually points backwards.

Brian

So the "L" goes on the port side with the arrow pointing towards the bow of the bike.
Why didn't they just say that? See... Easy!
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: gPink on May 13, 2014, 04:18:18 PM
Isn't  L for 'larboard'?
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: B.D.F. on May 13, 2014, 04:44:18 PM
Not so much in the US....

Remember, all pockets are the 'right' pocket.... if you have a fob in there.

Brian

Isn't  L for 'larboard'?
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: PH14 on May 14, 2014, 06:56:13 AM
aaaah......yeah that clears it up.  ???

Sorry you have an issue with that comment. Just saying it pays to pay attention. If I weren't on a ship at sea posting from my phone, I would have taken mine off and given detailed instructions. Mine went on easily and has had no issues.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: just gone on May 14, 2014, 07:46:04 AM
Sorry you have an issue with that comment. Just saying it pays to pay attention. If I weren't on a ship at sea posting from my phone, I would have taken mine off and given detailed instructions. Mine went on easily and has had no issues.

Sorry PH', I was just being a bit pissy (or TWIT mode as Jim says), I had just read through a bunch of typos on other forums (and a few on this one) and I was wondering if anybody previews their posts because several of them were trying to clear things up and just made it worse. Then I ran into....
.... putting g the pieces back on correctly is to. One their respective positions when you remove them.
I said "One their respective positions? WTF?" I wasn't looking for detailed instructions...anyway..sorry..I can't type very well on my phone either, haven't tried it at sea yet, but I doubt that would be any better. 
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: PH14 on May 14, 2014, 06:09:01 PM
Sorry PH', I was just being a bit pissy (or TWIT mode as Jim says), I had just read through a bunch of typos on other forums (and a few on this one) and I was wondering if anybody previews their posts because several of them were trying to clear things up and just made it worse. Then I ran into.... I said "One their respective positions? WTF?" I wasn't looking for detailed instructions...anyway..sorry..I can't type very well on my phone either, haven't tried it at sea yet, but I doubt that would be any better.

 :doh:

I didn't even notice that. Yeah, the phone has a predictive function that usually works very well, when I actually look at what I've written. I had to have hit the space bar instead of a letter which then inserted a period and screwed up the word. It should have read, "note their respective position." The random "g" is an odd bug in the latest OS. Once you let it insert the correct word by hitting the space bar, sometimes it leaves the letter. Odd, I know. I can however type very fast on it, I just need to proofread and wear my glasses. lol
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: VirginiaJim on May 14, 2014, 06:59:22 PM
You guys and your smarty phones....
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: gPink on May 15, 2014, 03:43:38 AM
just a little uppity aren't they....
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: VirginiaJim on May 15, 2014, 04:06:03 AM
Indeed.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: Texas Concours14 on May 15, 2014, 08:44:14 AM
My apologies for getting this thread back on topic...
I have the Cee Bailey Ultra Tour Dome windshield (their tallest) and likewise have experienced two of the plastic brackets cracking during the past three years. When on a road trip I carry extra brackets. Two points: (1) 4 FOOT-pounds of torque seems high. The Cee Bailey installation instructions specifies 5-8 INCH-pounds [I haven't found the torque spec for the OEM windshield anywhere in the manual]. (2) I reinforced the brackets by filling in the spaces on the backside of the bracket with Gorilla glue (probably could have used something better) and since then no cracks.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: VirginiaJim on May 15, 2014, 11:02:11 AM
Apologies accepted.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: just gone on May 15, 2014, 12:38:47 PM
I reinforced the brackets by filling in the spaces on the backside of the bracket with Gorilla glue (probably could have used something better) and since then no cracks.

Not a bad idea, which Gorilla glue did you use, regular?...or Gorilla glue epoxy?

......getting this thread back on topic...

Dang, two good ideas in a row! You are on a roll Texas Concours14, or as us fartymarty smarty phone users say: "U on A roll bro, like ham on kaiser, like JimmyD on a biscuit"
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: B.D.F. on May 15, 2014, 01:41:06 PM
As a combative, obnoxious, slug- fest of an internet argument, this thread sucks. Why I have had the opening statements of a decent heated internet exchange take up more space than this whole thread. You people should be ashamed..... Watching Kirby sneak up on a nut is more exciting that this thread.

:-)

Brian
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: VirginiaJim on May 15, 2014, 01:55:09 PM
Brian, I think the members appreciate a non-contentious thread once in awhile.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: B.D.F. on May 15, 2014, 02:01:51 PM
Ah, I gotcha'. I guess I should have put a smiley in that post, huh?

:-)

Brian

Brian, I think the members appreciate a non-contentious thread once in awhile.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: Texas Concours14 on May 15, 2014, 03:16:02 PM
Quote
which Gorilla glue did you use, regular?...or Gorilla glue epoxy?

fartymarty - I used the regular Gorilla glue. It tends to shrink over time so there is probably a better alternative. As to your compliment about having two good ideas in a row: thanks, happens about once a year. My flip phone doesn't know that smart phone lingo.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: PH14 on May 15, 2014, 08:52:18 PM
Ah, I gotcha'. I guess I should have put a smiley in that post, huh?

:-)

Brian

Nah! It is no fun if you have to explain it.
Title: Re: CalSci windscreen problem
Post by: just gone on May 16, 2014, 10:20:34 AM
Ah, I gotcha'. I guess I should have put a smiley in that post, huh?

:-)

Brian


Naw not here.  Other forum, probably.  :)  (<---smiley inserted for those that read both.)