Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Stephen.G.Fiddes on April 02, 2014, 10:14:02 PM
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So the last few rides, Ive noticed some front end noise. Its a small squeak/ chirp. At first I thought it was the brakes, but as I was going downhill in my neighborhood, I shut the engine off so I could hear better, pulled the brakes, could hear the standard brake noise (scraping metal, as it should be, not squealing) but the chirping never went away, no matter the brake pressure. The chirping did change with the speed of the bike tho.
Id much rather have my front wheel not lock up on me as I'm going down the road, but wanted to check here to see if anyone else had experience before I call the dealer for warranty. Ive never had a wheel bearing on a bike go bad so I'm not 100% sure what the symptoms would be, but I'm pretty sure thats what it is.
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Put it on the centerstand and get the front end off the ground and feel it during rotation. Generally but not a hard and fast rule, if you can hear it making noise it surely is going to fail in the very near future, same goes for if you can feel any roughness in the rotation. If you have to, remove both calipers and you should be able to isolate it better and more accurately.
Occassionally parts are bad, so it is definitely possible to get a bad bearing and surely warranty would cover it.
Otherwise I would immediately get in touch with the dealer and have them pick it up if need be.
Having a bearing fail, especially a front is not a good thing to contend with. So if it is suspect I would not continue to ride it
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I had a squeak going on as well after buying a used 2008. The front axle and pinch bolts had been tightened by a gorilla. After checking the bearings and seals, all I did was torque them as specified, and everything is totally silent with no binding and I have not had a problem since.
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I guess I'll pop the front wheel off and actually feel the bearings... Was hoping to avoid that but now that other possible culprits have been mentioned, I'll have to check those first before I schedule time at the stealership.
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if it has ABS, make sure to look at the sensor rotor, and the probe on the fork. If that is loose, it will rub the rotor....
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Finally got to looking at it, started by just spinning the wheel.... Noticed a lot of brake rub... is this normal? I don't remember my 650 rubbing this much... A little is understandable but this seems a bit excessive...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLgCYuIf_Uc&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLgCYuIf_Uc&feature=youtu.be)
EDIT: Upon further inspection (Without removing the wheel cause I need to buy a new tool to do that... Oh darn...) I didn't find anything to be super concerned about... I'm still a bit concerned about the squeak I've heard, but the wheel spun fine with the brake calipers removed, and slow turning and listening closely didn't sound abnormal... The ABS Sensor and all the associated peripherals looked good.
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Some brake noise is normal. The only way to really check it is to remove the pads, I would think. Just put them back in the same place and position. They're easy enough to remove by pulling the pins...but be careful, you only have about 5 seconds.
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Some brake noise is normal. The only way to really check it is to remove the pads, I would think. Just put them back in the same place and position. They're easy enough to remove by pulling the pins...but be careful, you only have about 5 seconds.
I pulled the entire caliper off (Good thing too cause the caliper bolts on the right side weren't as tight as they should have been) and inspected the pads. Only one showed any damage around the edges (it was missing a small piece right at the wear mark line. No associated damage to rotors) and all of them were clean. Rotors were good. I've pretty well ruled out anything brake related. I'll give it a good listen tomorrow too when I ride, see if I can come up with anything... I'll also pick up a big hex tool if I can find one so I can pull the wheel off too.
I was dissapointed to see that kawasaki used the same brake pads on these, that they used on the 04-05 ZX-10, which are the most expensive brake pads to buy!!! (well, for a Japanese bike) (swapped a zx-10 front end onto my old 650)
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So....how was the wheel spin with the calipers off? Still dragging? Any noise?
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Wheel spins great without the calipers. No dragging, no funny noises, spins freely.
I expect some brake noise (albeit, not quite as much as there is, but i dont think its a huge deal) but I'm still confused as to what could be making the squeak/ chirp... Its definaltely not the brakes, and without taking the wheel off, it doesnt seem like its the bearings either. Not completely ruled out, but doubtful. Theres not much more moving parts up there...
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My money's still on a brake squeak.
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Even though when I apply the brakes the squeak doesn't change? Only time it changes is with speed.
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From fhe video, I think the brakes are dragging too much. Look in the calipers and make sure the leaf springs are installed correctly. You may need to remove pads and springs to inspect. Bleed the brakes. Hope it fixes it.
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You can buy a tool specifically for removing the front wheel or you may have a spark plug socket that has the correct hex and use that. Put it in the axle hole, then put your socket wrench extension in from the spark plug side and you can turn the axle nut.
If you didn't hear the squeek with the brakes off and spinning the wheel it probably isn't the bearings. Did you try moving the wheel side to side to check for looseness in the bearings? Grab the bottom of the wheel and push/pull it sideways.
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It is a new bike. Personally, I wouldn't go too crazy with removing and messing with things without first taking to the dealer, since it is under warranty. Or at least don't tell them what you did (some might use it as an excuse to harass you). Hopefully you have a good dealer.
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It is a new bike. Personally, I wouldn't go too crazy with removing and messing with things without first taking to the dealer, since it is under warranty. Or at least don't tell them what you did (some might use it as an excuse to harass you). Hopefully you have a good dealer.
But won't they charge me an idiot fee if it ends up being nothing? (IE: Charge for the hour it takes them to take the wheel off and put it back on, or to tell me it is just the brakes...) If Odds are they won't charge an idiot fee, then I might just take it in... If the dealer is good enough for Jay, good enough for me... haha
It could be just nothing, but it could also be something. If it's something I can check for free, I'm apt to do that, because of how much I ride, and the fact that it's my only transportation. Basically all I care about is the wheel bearings at this point. If it's not them, then there's nothing else up front that could make that noise that's going to kill me.
I've put over 1000 miles on it in the past 2 weeks, and have another 250 mile trip on Monday, and my schedule hasn't even filled up for next week yet, so I don't know whats in store for riding the rest of the week... And to think I'm not even that busy yet...
And thanks to the gentleman for the tip on the spark plug socket... I'll give that a try when I find my brain...
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But won't they charge me an idiot fee if it ends up being nothing? (IE: Charge for the hour it takes them to take the wheel off and put it back on, or to tell me it is just the brakes...)
I suppose anything is possible, but I don't think a reputable dealer would.
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I suppose anything is possible, but I don't think a reputable dealer would.
I guess I'll give them a call.
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This is what my rear bearing on the GTR looked like after 25k miles. When I took the black seal off, the red cover was already loose
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/1400%20GTR%20Green/2013-09-23214919.jpg)
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:yikes:
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It is a new bike. Personally, I wouldn't go too crazy with removing and messing with things without first taking to the dealer, since it is under warranty. Or at least don't tell them what you did (some might use it as an excuse to harass you). Hopefully you have a good dealer.
And THAT is why many of us do not take our bikes to the dealer unless absolutely necessary.
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This is what my rear bearing on the GTR looked like after 25k miles. When I took the black seal off, the red cover was already loose
Yikes- that is crazy.
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And THAT is why many of us do not take our bikes to the dealer unless absolutely necessary.
Oh, I hear ya... and totally understand
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Yikes- that is crazy.
I know the person I purchased the bike from always got the bike serviced from the dealer. So either that bearing went after the last service or the dealer totally missed it.
Doesn't take long to change the bearings thankfully
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I know the person I purchased the bike from always got the bike serviced from the dealer. So either that bearing went after the last service or the dealer totally missed it.
Doesn't take long to change the bearings thankfully
What I am wondering is- Was is it just a defective part? Did it fail due to environment or some type of mistreatment? Did it fail due to something someone did in service/assembly - like overtightening something or improper installation?
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Probably washed the bike. :yikes:
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:thumbs: :goodpost: :hail: :yikes: :deadhorse: Those who wash are :loco: :nuts:
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Yikes!!!
Ive got to change my tires soon anyways so ill check them then.
These stock tires have gotten quite slippery... Lol.
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What I am wondering is- Was is it just a defective part? Did it fail due to environment or some type of mistreatment? Did it fail due to something someone did in service/assembly - like overtightening something or improper installation?
Maybe the rear wheel was over torqued when fitted after a tyre change? Or it could just be a defective part as you say
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Or someone got happy with a pressure washer ::)
Many of lifes problems are created by good intentions.
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No good dead goes unpunished.
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No good dead goes unpunished.
You have been watching too much Judge Judy
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or trying to type without my glasses on...
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deed, dead we all understood what you meant
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or trying to type without my glass FULL.....
Fixd that for ya Jim.... 8) ;)
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You got that right.
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deed, dead we all understood what you meant
I didn't even NOTICE the misspelling. I just know that is one of Judge Judy's favorite sayings.
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deed, dead we all understood what you meant
Doesn't mean we're letting him off scott free.
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I expect no less..
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Are you sure it's the front wheel? I had similar symptoms last year. The squeaking noise apparently coming from the front end seeming to be in rhythm with the wheels spinning. I was dead certain it was either the brakes or something rubbing on the front end. It was not. It was the rear wheel bearing going south. The squeaking noise would get louder as I accelerated, and quieter as I got off the throttle. At times it seemed to disappear completely. Then...
...riding up PCH on a mellow day trip to Santa Barbara from Van Nuys to have lunch on my 2009 C-14 with 19.5K on it. Just before Summerland I start hearing "CLUNK CLUNK CLACK CLUNKITY." Coming from somewhere, and I think I feel a slight vibration. So many tar strips, rough section, don't know if it's me or the road. I pull off the next off ramp. Yes, it's me. Very slight vibration and an oh-so-faint wobble. Drive up and down the side road. Stop, get off check all over. Looking for something rubbing or hanging off, because that's what it felt/sounded like. Nothing. No smell. Limp it into town, CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK. Call a tow truck. Find a local dealer. Have lunch. Mechanic at the dealer thinks it is coming from the rear end. Says it's serious. Take the train home.
A few days later, phone call. The rear wheel bearing has failed. Fortunately, covered under warranty. Picked it up yesterday. Several balls in the bearing are completely missing. Rubber seal messed up.
As to the probable cause... The dealer suspected that when I had the rear tire changed because of a flat a few months earlier, the tech had over torqued the rear wheel axle. The tire was replaced at a Honda shop that was not an authorized Kawasaki dealer. The Kawi mechanic said the Concours is the most sensitive bike on the road to torque specs. Just a little bit off either way, especially on the axles, and you can have problems. That could be a bit of a stretch, but something caused the rear bearing to fail. Either that, or Kawasaki is using some very substandard bearings.
So even though it sounds like it's coming from the front end, it may very well be coming from the rear. And there's no cure except to replace the bearing. My rear bearing looked about as bad as Kwikasfuki's. It was completely covered by the warranty, BTW. And there's no such thing as an idiot charge.
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Are you sure it's the front wheel? I had similar symptoms last year. The squeaking noise apparently coming from the front end seeming to be in rhythm with the wheels spinning. I was dead certain it was either the brakes or something rubbing on the front end. It was not. It was the rear wheel bearing going south. The squeaking noise would get louder as I accelerated, and quieter as I got off the throttle. At times it seemed to disappear completely. Then...
...riding up PCH on a mellow day trip to Santa Barbara from Van Nuys to have lunch on my 2009 C-14 with 19.5K on it. Just before Summerland I start hearing "CLUNK CLUNK CLACK CLUNKITY." Coming from somewhere, and I think I feel a slight vibration. So many tar strips, rough section, don't know if it's me or the road. I pull off the next off ramp. Yes, it's me. Very slight vibration and an oh-so-faint wobble. Drive up and down the side road. Stop, get off check all over. Looking for something rubbing or hanging off, because that's what it felt/sounded like. Nothing. No smell. Limp it into town, CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK. Call a tow truck. Find a local dealer. Have lunch. Mechanic at the dealer thinks it is coming from the rear end. Says it's serious. Take the train home.
A few days later, phone call. The rear wheel bearing has failed. Fortunately, covered under warranty. Picked it up yesterday. Several balls in the bearing are completely missing. Rubber seal messed up.
As to the probable cause... The dealer suspected that when I had the rear tire changed because of a flat a few months earlier, the tech had over torqued the rear wheel axle. The tire was replaced at a Honda shop that was not an authorized Kawasaki dealer. The Kawi mechanic said the Concours is the most sensitive bike on the road to torque specs. Just a little bit off either way, especially on the axles, and you can have problems. That could be a bit of a stretch, but something caused the rear bearing to fail. Either that, or Kawasaki is using some very substandard bearings.
So even though it sounds like it's coming from the front end, it may very well be coming from the rear. And there's no cure except to replace the bearing. My rear bearing looked about as bad as Kwikasfuki's. It was completely covered by the warranty, BTW. And there's no such thing as an idiot charge.
Well now that brings up an interesting point... Ill be changing the tires this weekend so I'll be fully inspecting both front and rear bearings. But I did notice a slight clunk when I was washing my bike last week... Something I was going to check when i change the tires.
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The dealer suspected that when I had the rear tire changed because of a flat a few months earlier, the tech had over torqued the rear wheel axle. The tire was replaced at a Honda shop that was not an authorized Kawasaki dealer. The Kawi mechanic said the Concours is the most sensitive bike on the road to torque specs. Just a little bit off either way, especially on the axles, and you can have problems.
that "dealer" hasn't a clue.
total bull-hockey.
when you tighten either the front or rear axle, WITH ALL THE PARTS CORRECTLY INSTALLED, it's virtually impossible to "damage the bearing" by over torqueing it.
The internal and external spacer stackup, and the axle, compress against the center race of the bearing, once that's solid, it can't get "any more solid", and you surely aren't gonna compress those spacers with a hand held wrench.
If someone were to compress the assembly WITHOUT one of those spacers, then yes, it COULD damage a bearing, and that is likely the cause... and when the "technician" noticed the spacer laying on the floor, he installed it and zipped his lipz.... nobody saw him, he can lie all he wants.
just my opinion.
or, the bearing was bad from the start. ;)
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You are probably right about the axle nut torque. I never liked that explanation either. I used to yank the wheels on and off my C-10, and I didn't even own a torque wrench. But then, that bike went 100k without having ANY bearing failures. My rear failed at 19k, Stephen's (maybe) at 4k... Is Kawasaki using lower-quality bearings now?
It also doesn't ring true that the C-14 is extremely sensitive to torque specs.
I tend to agree with you about a sloppy tech - although I have been going to that Honda dealer since 1986 and they do impeccable work (usually)...
Here's a pic of the culprit...
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You are probably right about the axle nut torque. I never liked that explanation either. I used to yank the wheels on and off my C-10, and I didn't even own a torque wrench. But then, that bike went 100k without having ANY bearing failures. My rear failed at 19k, Stephen's (maybe) at 4k... Is Kawasaki using lower-quality bearings now?
It also doesn't ring true that the C-14 is extremely sensitive to torque specs.
I tend to agree with you about a sloppy tech - although I have been going to that Honda dealer since 1986 and they do impeccable work (usually)...
Here's a pic of the culprit...
Ehh, the C14 seems more sensatice to other bikes in the bolt torque department... Much more advanced than any other bike ive owned tho.
That bearing looks like my old skateboard bearings would after the abuse I put them through lol.
Now if only UPS would hurry up with my box, I can get a final answer for you guys!
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I've never torqued the rear axle that I can recall, or the front one for that matter. Haven't had any issues yet, but there's always tomorrow...
"Annie" (1982) - Tomorrow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yop62wQH498#)
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Stephen, any resolution to that squeak?
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Nope. Its not there anymore tho. Im assuming it was just something with the brakes at this point.
I now have 8500 on her i think. (Not sure on exact number, havent seen her in two weeks due to army)
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Nope. Its not there anymore tho. Im assuming it was just something with the brakes at this point.
I now have 8500 on her i think. (Not sure on exact number, havent seen her in two weeks due to army)
You've been invaded? Why do I miss the good stuff?
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my wheel bearings got replaced at 85,000 miles. they didn;t need replacing, but I figured as many times as they've been under water and through the desert dust, perhaps it couldn't hurt ;D
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my wheel bearings got replaced at 85,000 miles. they didn;t need replacing, but I figured as many times as they've been under water..
Did your bike come with a propeller?
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KIPASS! Don't need no steenking propeller. ;)