Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: wingrider on December 16, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
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Can the tire pressure monitors be programmed by the user if different ones are installed? I removed mine when I had the new tires installed as I refuse to deal with anything that expensive when the battery gets weak and you have to remove the tire to replace. Add in the blocking of the display and they were gone. I installed a Doran system I had from my Wing. My real question is do the pressure monitors I took out have any value to someone out there?
Thanks, Jim
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Why don't you replace the batteries and put them back in next tire change?
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To answer the OP's question, they would have to be programmed to the bike by someone (dealer) with the super duper Kwaker gizmo. They (dealer) would also have to know how to use said gizmo. There really isn't anything wrong with the sensors. It's just the battery that gave out. 9/10 of the job is getting the tire off. It's quite simple to replace the battery. I've done one already and will do the front sometime in the spring. The sensors will become dear as Kwaker Central supposedly is replacing the dead and dying sensors with ones that have batteries that can't be replaced and then you're having to buy a sensor if they aren't covered under warranty or warranty extension.
So in closing, the sensors have absolutely no value ::) and I'll be glad to take them off your hands for postage.... ;)
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So in closing, the sensors have absolutely no value ::) and I'll be glad to take them off your hands for postage.... ;)
;D
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Sounds like postage could be expensive.
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Possibly... :rotflmao:
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snip...
So in closing, the sensors have absolutely no value ::) and I'll be glad to take them off your hands for postage.... ;)
:rotflmao:
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I am usually very happy with Kawasaki, but installing sensors without replaceable batteries is just an A-Hole move. Lets see, two batteries -$5.00 tops. Two sensors - just a little bit more...
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Do you know of any automotive tire pressure sensors with replaceable batteries? The units on our bikes do not have 'user' replaceable batteries. They weren't designed for user replacement. We just got lucky in that we could do it. And you know, it may be a liability issue with Kwaker that they decided to change the design so that the batteries couldn't easily be replaced by the riders, not to mention that they just don't hold up.
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Do you know of any automotive tire pressure sensors with replaceable batteries?
I am guessing few if any have replaceable batteries by design. But I bet they are far less expensive and last longer too.
The units on our bikes do not have 'user' replaceable batteries. They weren't designed for user replacement. We just got lucky in that we could do it. And you know, it may be a liability issue with Kwaker that they decided to change the design so that the batteries couldn't easily be replaced by the riders, not to mention that they just don't hold up.
I am not sure how it could be liability related, since there is no loss in safety by having a low battery.
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Who knows how the Kwackers and their lawyers think...just offering up a potential reason behind the sensor change. I mean, who knows what goes on in the board room after the Sake is opened? Which reminds me, I have a bottle of that just waiting to be consumed.
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The sensors for the Doran system don't have replaceable batteries but when the batteries do get weak which takes about two to three years of steady riding they only cost 25 dollars to replace and can be programmed in by the owner.
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The car sensors for sure last much longer, wonder why that is? "I do not miss those moody things by the way". ;)
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I am usually very happy with Kawasaki, but installing sensors without replaceable batteries is just an A-Hole move. Lets see, two batteries -$5.00 tops. Two sensors - just a little bit more...
Call Mark at kawasaki, he very much appreciates input (866) 802-9381
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Call Mark at kawasaki, he very much appreciates input (866) 802-9381
Don't know if A call to Mark is legit, but I thinking of a call to Moma Kawa is in order!
My dealer ordered the sensors to replace mine under warranty, which is now a sealed unit, as has been mentioned elsewhere. But dig this, the nut that holds it in place is a separate part # :o and needs to ordered separately, as the original is a different size!! I'm out 3 hours at the dealer + 2 hours to and from, for a 25 cent nut they'll charge 7 bucks for. And come on, it should be included. Bottom line, if your having your Sensors updated, make sure they order all the parts! Need to go back to the dealer, hope for another break in the weather like today. It was 61 on the jersey shore.
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To answer your question Jim, yes I believe they do.
The sensors are not programmed but rather the bike is programmed to respond to those sensors. Any Kawasaki dealer that has the KDS equipment (most seem to) will code the bike and the labor rate seems to be 1/2 hour or so usually.
The new sensors coming out from Kawasaki are a different brand, different type altogether, and potted meaning that it will not be nearly as easy to change batteries as it is on the ones you have.
So for someone wanting an extra set of sensors that they could put in immediately during a tire change, I would think buying a working pair would be useful. Try putting them up for sale on this forum and maybe the other Concours forum and if they don't go, put them on Ebay if you want. I really can't give you a value but I would think $25 each with dead or weak batteries, and maybe $40 each with good, 'full' batteries would not be unreasonable.
Brian
Can the tire pressure monitors be programmed by the user if different ones are installed? I removed mine when I had the new tires installed as I refuse to deal with anything that expensive when the battery gets weak and you have to remove the tire to replace. Add in the blocking of the display and they were gone. I installed a Doran system I had from my Wing. My real question is do the pressure monitors I took out have any value to someone out there?
Thanks, Jim
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Thanks. That is what I was wondering about. I will list them in a couple of days when i get some time off from work.
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I'm getting both front and rear TPMS replaced this coming Saturday. Done under warranty. Low Battery alert, for and aft. This has been happening, on and off for a few weeks. Time to get them replaced.
More as things develop.
Jack
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I'm getting both front and rear TPMS replaced this coming Saturday. Done under warranty. Low Battery alert, for and aft. This has been happening, on and off for a few weeks. Time to get them replaced.
More as things develop.
Jack
Do you know if they are putting the new style in? What warranty are they giving on the new sensors?
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Do you know if they are putting the new style in? What warranty are they giving on the new sensors?
Make sure they order the nuts!
My dealer ordered replacements and the new style came in. It require a different nut to attach it and has a separate part #!
They couldn't afford to include the nut!
Absurd!! :banghead:
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Do you know if they are putting the new style in? What warranty are they giving on the new sensors?
I :rotflmao: in your general direction concerning a warranty with the new sensors...
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Never hurts to ask. :)
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Nope, but always good for a laugh..
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'09 Honda CRV: Bought new, TPMS equipped, 65K miles on the car, system works perfect, never touched.
'08 Kaw C14: Bought with 2500 miles on it, TPMS equipped, 27K on the bike, system only worked if it was above freezing, went through two sets of batteries in 15K, Kaw/dealer refused third, and I gave up on system. :P
The technology exists for this to be a trouble free, dependable safety feature. For whatever reason, Kawasaki not only laid an egg with the technology, but is less than supportive of it after the fact. There is no defense or excuse for advertising a safety feature, and then executing it so poorly that it is useless. If there is an aftermarket set of equipment that would work, it would be great, but quite frankly shame on Kaw for creating this issue. >:(
BTW - my $2 tire gauge has been trouble free. ;)
Just my thoughts. 8)
Dave
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It certainly has been a problem on the C-14.
For what it is worth, Kawasaki does not manufacture the sensors or the system that monitors them; the sensors were made by LDL out of France, and the rest of the system by Mitsubishi in Japan. Of course Kawasaki did choose that brand and install them on their bikes so they own the results and should warranty the sensors for the full five years they say they should have worked for IMO.
Kawasaki is now going over to Schrader brand sensors and they have some respectable history from the automotive side. And there is a new warranty apparently on these sensors, 5 years or 100,000 miles. The downside is that the battery is potted in the sensor so battery changing is going to get much more difficult if possible at all. And of course, Kawasaki is charging a tremendous amount of money for the sensors :-(
Brian
'09 Honda CRV: Bought new, TPMS equipped, 65K miles on the car, system works perfect, never touched.
'08 Kaw C14: Bought with 2500 miles on it, TPMS equipped, 27K on the bike, system only worked if it was above freezing, went through two sets of batteries in 15K, Kaw/dealer refused third, and I gave up on system. :P
The technology exists for this to be a trouble free, dependable safety feature. For whatever reason, Kawasaki not only laid an egg with the technology, but is less than supportive of it after the fact. There is no defense or excuse for advertising a safety feature, and then executing it so poorly that it is useless. If there is an aftermarket set of equipment that would work, it would be great, but quite frankly shame on Kaw for creating this issue. >:(
BTW - my $2 tire gauge has been trouble free. ;)
Just my thoughts. 8)
Dave
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Thanks for the info update, Brian. Where did you see that warranty?
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Thanks for the info update, Brian. Where did you see that warranty?
And what's the price for the new sensors?
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A bit more than a dollar, I fear.
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I don't remember :-( But these are really (really) supposed to work.
Brian
Thanks for the info update, Brian. Where did you see that warranty?
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High. I have not looked yet but something like on the high side of $100, closer to $200. Each.
Brian
And what's the price for the new sensors?
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I did not ask any of the questions posed here by fellow members. I will ask on Saturday, if the new style parts and nuts are present. Before repairs are started. Then report back here. To the members of the Forum. I thank you for the information. Happy New Year to all.
More as things develop,
Jack
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I will ask on Saturday, if the new style parts and nuts are present. Before repairs are started. Then report back here. To the members of the Forum. I thank you for the information. Happy New Year to all.
Thank you. For planning. To report back. To the group. ;)
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Thank you. For planning. To report back. To the group. ;)
The new style TPMS on the front and rear have been installed and programed by the dealer.
After a few mistakes on which parts to order and reorder. The correct parts and
fasteners are in place and working well. The new style TPMS require a different size
nut to secure it to the rim. In took about three weeks and a few round robins to get the correct
parts. I was told that the new style TPMS units should last at a minimum of three years
and operate without problems, down to 15F. Time will tell. The fastest part of this adventure
was getting the parts installed and programmed. 50mins, start to finish.
More as things develop,
Big Jack
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Thanks!
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Three years? Are they under warranty?
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Three years? Are they under warranty?
My reaction exactly. Three years is a joke. How about 6????? My old ones are just now turning 3 and are occasionally starting with the low battery warning when it is cold. My car is 4.5 years old and still no warnings.
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Three years? Are they under warranty?
My TPMS was done under warranty, because I, have the extended warranty.
Otherwise, it would not have been performed under warranty. I agree for
the list price of the part. It shoud have a longer battery service life. Since the
base warranty is 36 months. I can understand why the part is rated for three
years.
More as things develop.
Big Jack
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I missed the warranty extension (bonehead move, I know) back in Nov last year, and the low battery warning started coming on in December. 3-year life expectancy indeed.
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Three years? Are they under warranty?
Just brilliant...so in a nut shell, no improvement whatsoever!! >:( >:( Except making it from a owners perspective more difficult to replace the battery...just %&*# brilliant!! :thumbdown
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;D
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My reaction exactly. Three years is a joke. How about 6????? My old ones are just now turning 3 and are occasionally starting with the low battery warning when it is cold. My car is 4.5 years old and still no warnings.
My F-150 is a 2008 model, that I bought in Nov. '07... still no TPMS battery issues, going on seven years. My 'Vette is a 2006, that I bought in August 2006. No TPMS battery issues, going on eight years. How can they last so long in cages, and not in bikes? Do other bike makes have similar 3-year life expectancy, or is it a Kawasaki issue?
I do not get it.
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Car tires...
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Car tires...
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/big/big-smiley-004.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/free-big-smiley.php)
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:D
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I didn't know I had sensors in my Xterra until I picked up a nail. They came in handy.
I bought it new in 07and just had the two rear sensors go out a week apart. The service department said that after six years they start going out. They're expensive to replace. My opinion is that if its a safety issue it should be good for the life of the vehicle.
I am not looking forward to replacing the two front sensors.
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I didn't know I had sensors in my Xterra until I picked up a nail. They came in handy.
I bought it new in 07and just had the two rear sensors go out a week apart. The service department said that after six years they start going out. They're expensive to replace. My opinion is that if its a safety issue it should be good for the life of the vehicle.
I am not looking forward to replacing the two front sensors.
Cost?
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Did a bit of Googling, and it seems car/truck TPMS batteries have an expected life of 10 years or 100,000 miles. Lots of variables, though...duty cycles, sampling rates, temperature extremes, etc. but ten years for a car/truck and only three for KAW? Wonder why that is?
Also found that a typical price for a set of four new car/truck TPMS, with new batteries, was $150, not including installation.
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Cost?
$182
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BTW - my $2 tire gauge has been trouble free. ;)
I'm just sayin ... 8)
Dave
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Dave,
The year is 2014. I spent more than 50 years of my life without em but Tire Pressure Sensors are on most 4 wheel vehicles when they leave the factory. You can't read a tire gauge at 65 mph and a TPS is a early warning that something is wrong. :)
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You can't read a tire gauge at 65 mph and a TPS is a early warning that something is wrong. :)
:goodpost: :chugbeer:
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I guessing the issue here is the occasional low battery warning when it's cold out, that goes away after a few miles? I can certainly see it being more of a nuisance if you doing an extended run in weather cold enough to keep the warning on... But I've never had to look at that warning for more than a couple minutes.
But for those worried that seeing that warning means the battery could fail at any moment... I first saw a front tire warning early in my second year of owning my bike.(bought in 2007) That was right around 30,000 miles. I now have another 86,000 miles on the bike, and really the only difference is that I'll see a rear warning as well. But in terms of frequency, or length of time the warning is on? Pretty much the same as it ever was.
Heck, now that I think about it... I needed to change my KiPass fob batteries before I needed to change my TPS batteries.
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My F-150 is a 2008 model, that I bought in Nov. '07... still no TPMS battery issues, going on seven years. My 'Vette is a 2006, that I bought in August 2006. No TPMS battery issues, going on eight years. How can they last so long in cages, and not in bikes? Do other bike makes have similar 3-year life expectancy, or is it a Kawasaki issue?
I do not get it.
Not all systems use a sensor in each wheel. Some, such as my VW, use the antilock system to 'see' which tire has a lower air pressure as compared to the other tires. No maintenance required on these.
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Not all systems use a sensor in each wheel. Some, such as my VW, use the antilock system to 'see' which tire has a lower air pressure as compared to the other tires. No maintenance required on these.
How's that work? Different rotating speeds?
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How's that work? Different rotating speeds?
Right. The system uses the tone ring from the ABS system to compare the rotational speeds of each tire against the others. A tire with a lower pressure than the others will have a smaller diameter and the system picks up on that and alerts the driver. If all the tires are low, then you're on your own. This is one of the drawbacks of this system.
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I guessing the issue here is the occasional low battery warning when it's cold out, that goes away after a few miles? I can certainly see it being more of a nuisance if you doing an extended run in weather cold enough to keep the warning on... But I've never had to look at that warning for more than a couple minutes.
And how far can you drive in a few minutes? That puts you further and further away from home on tires with unknown pressure. And it means you can't see anything else on the display without stopping and F'ing with the controls so you can instead be blinded by a red light.
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Right. The system uses the tone ring from the ABS system to compare the rotational speeds of each tire against the others. A tire with a lower pressure than the others will have a smaller diameter and the system picks up on that and alerts the driver. If all the tires are low, then you're on your own. This is one of the drawbacks of this system.
The other is that it is not very precise or accurate.
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BTW - my $2 tire gauge has been trouble free. ;)
I'm just sayin ... 8)
Dave
Got C10?
Not all systems use a sensor in each wheel. Some, such as my VW, use the antilock system to 'see' which tire has a lower air pressure as compared to the other tires. No maintenance required on these.
Same as my Rav4
The other is that it is not very precise or accurate.
This is true, but I'm not looking for accuracy. I just want to know I've got a tire going flat. The only problem I have is training my wife to let me know about yellow indicators on the vehicle when they occur.
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The TPS warning system still works with a low battery warning. They just sort of take turns on the display :-) But if a tire goes below 32 PSI, the system will warn you even if there happen to be other warnings being displayed, including the low tire pressure sensor battery(s). I guess we could have three 'non critical' warnings at the same time easily enough: two low TPS battery warnings and the low fuel warning, all in rotation. Low tire pressure could cause one or two more warnings. Throw in the occasional FI warning out of nowhere and the dash is starting to become something like a reality TV show....
Brian
And how far can you drive in a few minutes? That puts you further and further away from home on tires with unknown pressure. And it means you can't see anything else on the display without stopping and F'ing with the controls so you can instead be blinded by a red light.
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As the battery levels get worse and worse, the low battery warning will come on at a higher temp and will stay on longer. My front battery is crying the blues all the time now and I'm just waiting till I wear out the front to get the battery sorted. Although, I may just say the heck with it and just do it, but I hate to pull a tire and then have to do it again in a short amount of time.
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This morning, I'm tooling down the interstate in my wife's Focus, doing 70 or so, and the "low tire pressure" warning appers on the dash. Lights, dings, dongs, flashing warnings...all that stuff. It was cold out...10 or so, thus I thought maybe it was temp related. Then again, this all started right after I had driven over a piece of rebar or something in the road...so, there was a tiny voice of concern too. It was a couple of miles before I could safely get off the road to do a visual, and luckily, all tires passed the eyeball test. Too cold, and too risky on side of road to do anything else, so I got back in car, and continued my trip, still accompanied by the lights, dings,dongs, and flashes. When I got home, I did another visual, and all tires are fine. TPMS not only gave me a false alarm, it did not tell me which tire or tires, were low. More trouble than necessary, IMHO. Now that temps are backmup in 40s, warning went away.
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None of us work well in the cold..
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I can't tell you for sure which vehicles they are but some also include a sensor for the spare tire. If the pressure was low enough in the spare and it has a sensor that could trigger the light. The newer systems also look a range of preset pressures besides just one tire going low.
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And how far can you drive in a few minutes? That puts you further and further away from home on tires with unknown pressure. And it means you can't see anything else on the display without stopping and F'ing with the controls so you can instead be blinded by a red light.
As B.D.F. mentioned, the system is still working. I have also gotten both warnings, because my pressure was kind of low to start with, and the temp dropped overnight. So the next morning, the two warnings cycled until the battery warmed up. Then the low pressure warning remained until the tire temp climbed a bit more. When I got to work, I refilled to the proper pressure.
I do a visual pre-ride check. Just to see if anything LOOKS out of whack... But beyond that, I know that air is always just a gas station (or two) away should I actually need it. And I know that if I CAN'T locate a gas station... I have a CO2 powered tire filler in my saddlebag at all times anyways.
To me... total non-issue.
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Dave,
The year is 2014. I spent more than 50 years of my life without em but Tire Pressure Sensors are on most 4 wheel vehicles when they leave the factory. You can't read a tire gauge at 65 mph and a TPS is a early warning that something is wrong. :)
Shoe:
2014? Tell that to Ma Kaw. I am not debating that it is a useful safety feature, just that this version is poor. My cars have it, and it works fine. We need to stop drinking koolaid and defending poor engineering.
Dave
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I will try to show how I fixed what I consider to be a completely inadequit factory system. I am not computor literate so if there are no pictures give me another chance. If they do come thru we will condider it a great acomplishment for me.
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More pictures
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oops, one duplicate. As I post the rest of the pictures you can see that this system allows you to read the tire pressure at any time and is very accurate.
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Wingrider,
How does that system work at highway speeds? Or better yet how does it work at C14 high speed transit? I would be a little concerned about centrifugal forces.
The other concerns I have with external mounted sensors are weather resistance and theft.
I would like to know how they work.
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Shoe, I ran this setup for 123,000 on my wing in all kinds of weather and had no problems. So far they have seen over the century mark on the concours with no problem. I don't see any down side to this system.
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Shoe, I ran this setup for 123,000 on my wing in all kinds of weather and had no problems. So far they have seen over the century mark on the concours with no problem. I don't see any down side to this system.
I have a 2010 Wing with factory installed 90 deg. valve stems and I have installed the same type on my C14. Is there enough clearance to install the Doran sensors?
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Did you have to re-balance the tires? That sensor appears huge on the valve stem.
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Shoe,
You can see in the picture I had to turn the front valve stem to clear the brake caliper. On my wing they cleared with no problem.
Jim,
I have them installed on the stem before balancing.
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Shoe, I ran this setup for 123,000 on my wing in all kinds of weather and had no problems. So far they have seen over the century mark on the concours with no problem. I don't see any down side to this system.
INTERESTING...
they Can be mounted internal to the tire, like the OEM's....
making them theft proof.... but I can't see any benefit to these over the stock ones... as they have non replacable batteries also.... ::)
Doran 360M™ Tire Pressure Monitoring System SpecificationsDoran Tire Pressure Monitor System Sensor Specifications:
Operating frequency: 434.1 MHz
Operating temperature range: -40°F to +185°F
Storage temperature range: -40°F to +185°F
Sensor weight: 0.49 oz
Sensor dimensions: Width: 1.07” – approximately the same size as a quarter
Height: 0.928” - extends less than 0.75” above the stem when installed
Sensor batteries: internal, non-rechargeable with expected life of 3-4 years
Sensor pressure range: 10 to 87 PSI ±1.5 PSI
the manual has nothing showing battery replacement....
http://www.doranmfg.com/PDF/Doran_360M_3600M2__User_Manual_-_4-9-09.pdf (http://www.doranmfg.com/PDF/Doran_360M_3600M2__User_Manual_-_4-9-09.pdf)
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As long as I can do it myself its and advantage to me. Some may disagree. If the OEM sensors are removed will I get a continous flashing error message? :)
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Nope, it will not flash after the sensor is totally dead. It only flashes when it's mostly dead. I'm sticking with the old sensors as at least I can change the batteries in them.
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Miracle Max: Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.
Inigo Montoya: What's that?
Miracle Max: Go through his clothes and look for loose change.
:rotflmao: That movie kills me all these years later.
Brian
Nope, it will not flash after the sensor is totally dead. It only flashes when it's mostly dead. I'm sticking with the old sensors as at least I can change the batteries in them.
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Me too, Brian.
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Nope, no battery replacement. However they have only charged me 25.00 each for a replacement sensor and they are easy to program into the system. When the battery gets low it will flash the red light and then still show the other tires pressure. I couldn't handle the entire display being hidden and then have to wait until the tire is replaced because it is mounted inside. I wasn't willing to pay to have the tire dismounted just to replace the batteries on such a poor design.
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I will try to show how I fixed what I consider to be a completely inadequit factory system. I am not computor literate so if there are no pictures give me another chance. If they do come thru we will condider it a great acomplishment for me.
2003? ;)