Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: ropjohns on November 23, 2013, 02:15:38 PM
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So, as expected with my lack of experience, something is wrong. I just got done installing 47mm zx14 TB's and factory pro midrange velocity stacks. Also an autotuner. I take it out for a test spin, and to let the autotuner get to work, and when I try to accelerate in any gear, there is a something like a "disconnect", like I'm revving in neutral, even though I'm not in neutral. Putting around at low rpms seems ok (the bike sounds fantastic actually), but when I hit it there's no power and almost no pull. Something is seriously (maybe) wrong. What is it??
Also, the autotuner. I hooked it up when I got back to look at the trim table, and there was maybe 6 numbers in different cells, all clustered around 5500rpm and 10-15 % throttle. That's not how it should look right? Theres hould be changes everywhere I was with the throttle and rpm right? I have the LCD display, so I could see my AFR, and it never hit the map figures that the autotuner should be getting it to. It was never in 13's anywhere at all actually.
Anyway, i need lots of help. Please....I don't care about looking foolish from messing up, as long as I can fix whatever it is and learn from it...
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Is there a brand name for the 'autotuner'? Not sure I've heard of that term before.
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:popcorn:
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What Rob has is a PC V with the PC auto tuner module. I know some of you have this setup.... ?
I can only speak generically about this as I do not have a PC auto tuning module but have used other brands in the past.
The auto tuner will NOT change the original map by itself. What it does do is change an intermediate place, apparently called a 'trim table' by this manufacturer, as 'suggested' changes to be made. There should be some way to give the Power Commander the 'thumbs up' and have it then change the map you are currently using to reflect the changes it has suggested; said another way, it should add the offsets, which it is calling the trim table, to the main mixture map on your command. There should be a screen somewhere to allow this without you having to copy each cell's data over manually.
How quickly the auto tuning module responds should also be controllable by the user. It is called the slew rate but is often called something else in specific industries such as the automotive / motorcycle tuning world. You want the unit to respond reasonably quick but not so fast that it is jumping around virtually on each revolution of the engine. Also, there should be a magnitude adjustment that controlls how much the tuner can change any cell (trim table) because again, you do not want it to move, say, 40% because of one slightly lean or rich cycle but you also do not want it to move a max. of 0.1% either or it would be virtually useless.
Unfortunately I cannot guide you on this specific hardware though. Hopefully someone who has one will chime in.
And all chop- breaking aside, there is always the manual and on- line assets to use regarding anything from DynoJet. It might be worth a Google search because someone, somewhere must have documented what he / she did even if it was on another bike- it will work the same way on your bike.
Brian
So, as expected with my lack of experience, something is wrong. I just got done installing 47mm zx14 TB's and factory pro midrange velocity stacks. Also an autotuner. I take it out for a test spin, and to let the autotuner get to work, and when I try to accelerate in any gear, there is a something like a "disconnect", like I'm revving in neutral, even though I'm not in neutral. Putting around at low rpms seems ok (the bike sounds fantastic actually), but when I hit it there's no power and almost no pull. Something is seriously (maybe) wrong. What is it??
Also, the autotuner. I hooked it up when I got back to look at the trim table, and there was maybe 6 numbers in different cells, all clustered around 5500rpm and 10-15 % throttle. That's not how it should look right? Theres hould be changes everywhere I was with the throttle and rpm right? I have the LCD display, so I could see my AFR, and it never hit the map figures that the autotuner should be getting it to. It was never in 13's anywhere at all actually.
Anyway, i need lots of help. Please....I don't care about looking foolish from messing up, as long as I can fix whatever it is and learn from it...
-
What Rob has is a PC V with the PC auto tuner module. I know some of you have this setup.... ?
I can only speak generically about this as I do not have a PC auto tuning module but have used other brands in the past.
The auto tuner will NOT change the original map by itself. What it does do is change an intermediate place, apparently called a 'trim table' by this manufacturer, as 'suggested' changes to be made. There should be some way to give the Power Commander the 'thumbs up' and have it then change the map you are currently using to reflect the changes it has suggested; said another way, it should add the offsets, which it is calling the trim table, to the main mixture map on your command. There should be a screen somewhere to allow this without you having to copy each cell's data over manually.
How quickly the auto tuning module responds should also be controllable by the user. It is called the slew rate but is often called something else in specific industries such as the automotive / motorcycle tuning world. You want the unit to respond reasonably quick but not so fast that it is jumping around virtually on each revolution of the engine. Also, there should be a magnitude adjustment that controlls how much the tuner can change any cell (trim table) because again, you do not want it to move, say, 40% because of one slightly lean or rich cycle but you also do not want it to move a max. of 0.1% either or it would be virtually useless.
Unfortunately I cannot guide you on this specific hardware though. Hopefully someone who has one will chime in.
And all chop- breaking aside, there is always the manual and on- line assets to use regarding anything from DynoJet. It might be worth a Google search because someone, somewhere must have documented what he / she did even if it was on another bike- it will work the same way on your bike.
Brian
Besides the autotuning, you have no idea what might be causing the acceleration issue? Why it is that I can go at a steady rpm fine, then twist the throttle and lose all power even though the engine is still revving? I'm going to open it back up and see what I can see, but I was hoping somebody knows these symptoms exactly.
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:popcorn:
I'm going to double your :popcorn: :popcorn: .
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Looks like we're not going to find out what's wrong with the bike...
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OH NO! Is this going to be like that 'Help! Dealer sold the bike with no oil in it!!!' thread?
Hey Jim, maybe you can lock this thread and unlock that one, you know to keep the entropy in the universe constant....
:rotflmao: <two times>
Brian
Looks like we're not going to find out what's wrong with the bike...
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I'm going to double your :popcorn: :popcorn: .
I'll see your popcorn and raise you.
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink033.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink033.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink033.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
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OH NO! Is this going to be like that 'Help! Dealer sold the bike with no oil in it!!!' thread?
Hey Jim, maybe you can lock this thread and unlock that one, you know to keep the entropy in the universe constant....
:rotflmao: <two times>
Brian
If I can find it, I'll unlock it. In fact, I may unlock all I can find or maybe not. We'll see. Wow! It's interesting to see the locked threads as I wouldn't lock them now. Heck, I even deleted one of my own threads that just had one post in it and then I locked it. They don't call me the thread locker for nothing.... :rotflmao:
Update: I've unlocked more than several..continuing on the quest.
I'll see your popcorn and raise you.
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink033.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink033.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink033.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Well, if he didn't like mine and Gary's popcorn, I'm sure he won't like yours... ;)
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You can all follow his exploits on the Cog forum if you are inclined venture over there. He goes by rob and he's got a couple of threads going on how to screw up a perfectly good motorcycle. :)
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Excellent. I'm sure he'll make friends over there just like he made here. :rotflmao:
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There are better threads to follow....
:yikes:
Brian
You can all follow his exploits on the Cog forum if you are inclined venture over there. He goes by rob and he's got a couple of threads going on how to screw up a perfectly good motorcycle. :)
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I don't know the man but some people do need the stencil "This side toward enemy" on their face....
Brian
Excellent. I'm sure he'll make friends over there just like he made here. :rotflmao:
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So, thawing out from my dirt bike class today and the brain fluids are running kinda slow. The AT can create/rewite a MAP. Key is getting a MAP that is close and then determining what AFRs you want to run. If the Accelerator pump is enabled, disable it (I never ever had a good running tune with it enabled). Also make sure the AT has been turned on (easy there Brian) through the software. Make sure you have saved the base MAP and as you run the bike save each MAP and label it. I know it is another expense, but it will pay to have the bike tuned on a dyno and let the AT make fine changes as the temps and elevations change. My TBs are the 44mm, 47 may be a bit big for the air available through the air box. Which injectors did you use? The first to do this mod did alot of research and determined the stock C14 injectors were a much better match so that is what I used. As my big thing this year has been dirt and gravel I have been slack, happy with what I have, well, happy enough that I haven't been fiddling around with tunes.
Good Luck!!
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You can all follow his exploits on the Cog forum if you are inclined venture over there. He goes by rob and he's got a couple of threads going on how to screw up a perfectly good motorcycle. :)
Excellent. I'm sure he'll make friends over there just like he made here. :rotflmao:
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
:thumbs: :thumbs: :chugbeer: :grouphug:
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I musta missed something ???
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I musta missed something ???
Yep, you did Chet.
I'll give you the cliff notes... Rob is a tool and will get no Christmas card from me this year. ;) :) :chugbeer:
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Or me for that matter...
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Or me for that matter...
:thumbs: :chugbeer:
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I missed it too but have heard a very fast overview of the plot. I believe he played the part of the antagonist, and the world played the part of the protagonist.... if I read correctly.
;D
Brian
Yep, you did Chet.
I'll give you the cliff notes... Rob is a tool and will get no Christmas card from me this year. ;) :) :chugbeer:
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Bummer. Whatever his issue/s is/was, I hope he gets things sorted out. If a little popcorn gets him excited he belongs over "there".
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Seems liable to be something relatively basic, like TPS or linkage out of proper range or un-plugged. Could have a massive off-idle vacuum leak.
May be best to also disconnect the tuner and run it just on the ECU to see if the box or wiring is the fault.
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I don't know the man but some people do need the stencil "This side toward enemy" on their face....
Brian
I think that he has at least two of these Brian, he'll need some assistance in determining which face to stencil.
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I think that he has at least two of these Brian, he'll need some assistance in determining which face to stencil.
OUCH OUCH OUCH ! Where is the LOVE!