Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: timsatx on October 18, 2013, 06:05:54 AM
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By Jacob Gershman
An upstate New York man was arrested for violating the state’s new gun law. What makes this case unusual is that the gun in question was legal and wasn’t involved in a crime. The man faces up to a year in prison for loading it with too many bullets.
Paul Wojdan was a passenger in a car that was pulled over for speeding in the city of Lockport, N.Y., last weekend after a brief chase, according to the Buffalo News. Law Blog couldn’t immediately reach him for comment.
After the officer inquired if there were any weapons inside the vehicle, the man handed over a holstered gun from the glove compartment. Mr. Wojdan had a permit for the gun, the newspaper reported. But he was taken into custody after the officer inspected the magazine and saw that it contained 10 rounds of ammunition, exceeding the legal limit by three bullets.
Under the New York Safe Act, a package of stricter gun restrictions approved this year, it’s legal to possess a magazine that can store 10 rounds of ammunition, but that magazine may not be loaded with more than seven rounds.
The 26-year-old man was charged with unlawful possession of an ammunition-feeding device.
According to a legal guidance memo prepared by the New York State Police, authorities need probable cause to inspect the contents of a magazine.
“Unless there is probable cause to believe the law is being violated, there isn’t justification for checking a magazine to determine whether or not it contains more than 7 rounds,” states the “Guide to The New York Safe Act,” prepared by the New York State Police counsel’s office.
Lockport’s police chief, Lawrence Eggert, said the officer acted appropriately.
“We certainly are not going to just stop a car and ask for a permit so we can check the number of bullets in the magazine,” he told the Buffalo News. “We usually run these by the DA’s office, but in this particular case, the officer didn’t have that luxury.”
http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-357634/ (http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-357634/)
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Stand right there ............... while I get rid of three.
better?
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:-X
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What, too soon?
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Don't want to be the guy to get this sent to the arena ;)
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Well I look at it this way... If your going to live in a stupid state known for making stupid laws then you had best make it your priority to know what the stupid rules are or your going to go to jail for your own stupidity...
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...there is that. (says the guy living in the PRI)
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He can beat this one.
He was charged with an unlawful posession of an ammo feeding device.
Being in posession of an ammo feeding device isn't illegal. Loading it with more than seven rounds is. The act of loading it with more rounds than allowed is the crime. Not posessing the legal mag.
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Well I look at it this way... If your going to live in a stupid state known for making stupid laws then you had best make it your priority to know what the stupid rules are or your going to go to jail for your own stupidity...
Makes sense to me.
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Well I look at it this way... If your going to live in a stupid state known for making stupid laws then you had best make it your priority to know what the stupid rules are or your going to go to jail for your own stupidity...
This is what I have to do in the stupid state of NJ.
Yesterday's law(s) is not today's. Today's law(s) will not be tomorrow's.
Stay informed. Act accordingly.
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This is what I have to do in the stupid state of NJ.
Yesterday's law(s) is not today's. Today's law(s) will not be tomorrow's.
Stay informed. Act accordingly.
Wise words to live by.....
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What, too soon?
Why, are you commenting on 'premature ejection' perhaps?
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If only law enforcement would be on our side and tell the state government to stick it where the sun don't shine. I was hoping to make it back up to Maine someday for another motorcycle trip, but that entire portion of the country "except for Vermont" leaves a bad taste in my mouth anymore.
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Cheese is good in Vermont.
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If only law enforcement would be on our side and tell the state government to stick it where the sun don't shine.
Some of them are.
http://www.nysaferesolutions.com/2013/01/24/saratoga-county-sheriffs-association-stands-against-ny-safe-act/ (http://www.nysaferesolutions.com/2013/01/24/saratoga-county-sheriffs-association-stands-against-ny-safe-act/)
There are some great points in that letter. I really liked this one: (emphasis added)
In addition, any semi-automatic pistol that has 1 “military—type” feature will, under the new law, be considered an assault weapon.
While it may come as a surprise to the authors of the legislation, most semi-automatic pistols do in fact come with a pistol grip. making nearly every semi—automatic pistol an assault weapon and thus subject to registration on a yearly basis.
Many LEOs oppose it on a personal level, even though they are exempted. (We weren't in the original version of the bill. They rushed it through without thinking, ::) and made thousands of LEOs into criminals for carrying their duty firearms.)
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This, to my knowledge, is the second arrest of an person who is otherwise legal to carry but in violation of the ammo count, as per the safe act in NY. In the first event the DA chose not to persecute.
Nazi Germany started like this too. Small steps of the government violating citizens rights, claiming to "better" their society. Getting the LEO's to enforce laws of subjugation from the government, having the populace act as sheep so they wouldn't have to deal with the gestapo and special police. Most folks were glad to turn their heads at the government violations, as long as the government left them alone. Pretty soon neighbors were ratting on each other, and turning a blind eye to the atrocities committed right under their noses.
In NY, the legislature pushed through a bill that seriously curtails the rights of legal gun owners in the middle of the night, in 15 minutes, with no public hearings, and they called it "the SAFE act" The politicians and police used the Newtown tragedy - a horrible crime committed by a mentally ill person - as an EXCUSE to attack the rights of millions of innocent NY gun owners. The NY Post newspaper even outed the LEGAL concealed carriers in Kings county - even Law Enforcement, Corrections Officers, Judges, etc, in an effort to ingratiate itself with the politicians and their sheep. Now law abiding firearms carriers have been turned into criminals - and as you see, the police ARE doing the bidding of the government. Now read the paragraph before this one, and tell me what YOU see. Steve
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Cheese is good in Vermont.
So is maple syrup and Ben & Jerrys. 8)
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Well I look at it this way... If your going to live in a stupid state known for making stupid laws then you had best make it your priority to know what the stupid rules are or your going to go to jail for your own stupidity...
Is there a state that does otherwise?
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:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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Is there a state that does otherwise?
What make stupid laws? Well no but some are worse than others.... Hell some even refuse to follow federal laws and go off on their own and pass unconstitutional laws...
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....as if the fedgov doesn't pass unconstitutional laws. :rotflmao:
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....as if the fedgov doesn't pass unconstitutional laws. :rotflmao:
LOL Set myself up for that one eh?
BTW I'm happy to have read on "ILL" state police website that least if I'm driving straight through the state that I no longer need to lock up my weapon in transport mode when just passing through....
http://www.isp.state.il.us/firearms/ccw/ccw-faq.cfm (http://www.isp.state.il.us/firearms/ccw/ccw-faq.cfm)
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Be careful, as the ILL-inois cc laws are new and still 'evolving'. ::)
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Be careful, as the ILL-inois cc laws are new and still 'evolving'. ::)
Yes it is still evolving as I can see different verbage between now and a couple months ago.
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What's true today may not be true tomorrow. I'd carry a copy of whatever the current law is at the time as everybody who needs to know what the law is may not know.
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With the types of cops that are out there now I would still be careful because whatever the law is they may still do whatever they want regardless of the law.
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What's true today may not be true tomorrow. I'd carry a copy of whatever the current law is at the time as everybody who needs to know what the law is may not know.
There's an app for that.. CCW-Concealed Carry 50 State Guide.
iphone, android and kindle apps..
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But that requires possession of electronic devices I have sworn never to own. 8)
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But that requires possession of electronic devices I have sworn never to own. 8)
I swore to never ride a HD, but everything has a price ;)
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:yikes:
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Among many reasons I am no longer a NY resident. Also among the reasons I am no longer a non gun owner and now a CCW permit holder, my wife as well, with several carry arms and long weapons in our home.
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Did everyone miss the 'short chase' part of the article? After that, I'm sure the leo had cause to check the gun. Just my opinion, of course, but MOST times people doing nothing wrong don't get a lot of hassle from police-types. Most likely the cop checked the gun for his own safety (not knowing why these guys didn't pull over immediately) and then found the extra rounds.
I'm not saying the law isn't b.s., but there's more to this story than the number of rounds in the magazine.
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Did everyone miss the 'short chase' part of the article? After that, I'm sure the leo had cause to check the gun. Just my opinion, of course, but MOST times people doing nothing wrong don't get a lot of hassle from police-types. Most likely the cop checked the gun for his own safety (not knowing why these guys didn't pull over immediately) and then found the extra rounds.
I'm not saying the law isn't b.s., but there's more to this story than the number of rounds in the magazine.
Nope I did not miss the "short chase" comment; but it makes little difference to me as to the stupidity of the law itself that forbids loading of more than 7 rounds into a mag (gun) that was legally built to hold 10, 14, or 17 etc.... If the LEO did have to give true chase well that would indeed change the dynamics of the situation and in many (most?) states when a car is stopped the "detention" applies to all occupants. But it also does not give the LEO the right to go "fishing" for violations either as that is what counting of the rounds amounted too. Taking possession of the gun for officer safety is one thing, as is removing the mag and round in chamber; but counting of rounds is entirely another...
As to the comment "MOST times people doing nothing wrong don't get a lot of hassle from police-types" have you kept up with the crazy laws that "the people" in some of these states have to live under? How about the "unregistered ammo" that might land a man in jail for 1 year for 1 EMPTY (FIRED) brass cartridge and another year for an unfired but "dead" shotgun shell?
This is where my true outrage lies in the fact that this is no longer America the Land of the Free as we the people are being dumbed down to living under the restrictions of a Police State....
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Them guys with banjo music? Aint as dumb as people make me out to be ;) Cue the music...
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Never thought of you and banjo music at the same time......should I?
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Well, he has taken to riding a Harley.
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Squeal like a Hog!
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...This is where my true outrage lies in the fact that this is no longer America the Land of the Free as we the people are being dumbed down to living under the restrictions of a Police State....
I agree. It makes me furious to hear bleating about defending our freedom from invading foreigners when it is our own people who are restricting us.
Where you and I might disagree, though, is that I believe the greatest influence is more from corporate sources than from purely political ones; the power of the corporate lobby machine is vast, and largely invisible. Politicians get into office by pleasing us, but they stay in office by pleasing those with deep pockets.
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Them guys with banjo music? Aint as dumb as people make me out to be ;) Cue the music...
There are some folk, in my opinion, who are pretty much above criticism; firemen and banjo players. You just can't be sad listening to banjo music, and the folk that play them are to be credited and envied for their spirit.
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Where you and I might disagree, though, is that I believe the greatest influence is more from corporate sources than from purely political ones; the power of the corporate lobby machine is vast, and largely invisible. Politicians get into office by pleasing us, but they stay in office by pleasing those with deep pockets.
How can you say we disagree as I've not told you my opinion on corporate and political influences?
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We have political influence due to corporate influence. But...that can't happen if the politicians don't allow themselves to be bought.
Then we have the voters who are bought by the politicians...
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Well, he has taken to riding a Harley.
Ouch!!!!!!!!!! Night ride tonight and back to Nashville tomorrow AM. First thing I am doing when I get home is have a therapy session with my bikes :-*
Never thought of you and banjo music at the same time......should I?
I can't carry a tune in a bucket, but my magazines are always full and I can make a soda can dance with the best of them ;) And arrows? ;D
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Ouch!!!!!!!!!! Night ride tonight and back to Nashville tomorrow AM. First thing I am doing when I get home is have a therapy session with my bikes :-*
So close, and yet, so far....
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How can you say we disagree as I've not told you my opinion on corporate and political influences?
I didn't say we disagreed, I said we might. No offense meant :)
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I didn't say we disagreed, I said we might. No offense meant :)
None taken...