Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: tjung on September 09, 2013, 11:18:27 AM

Title: Dropped Bike
Post by: tjung on September 09, 2013, 11:18:27 AM
While riding in Colorado a few weeks ago, I reached over (without getting on the bike) to start it up and let run a sec while I donned my helmet and gloves.  The bike jumped forward about a foot and came off the kickstand.  Thankfully I was able to lay it down gently and avoid any major damage.

I was really baffled by what happened.  If the bike is not in Neutral, I should not be allowed to start it with the kickstand down.  If it is in neutral then it shouldn't engage the rear wheel when starting.  Either way, I had the clutch in, so the bike shouldn't move.

The only thing I can think of is that sometimes when trying to find neutral, the gear indicator just goes blank.  No big deal since I can normally just shift up and back down and get the "N" to show up.  I must not have noticed when I left the bike on this occasion.  Anyone ever have this happen?
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: Conrad on September 09, 2013, 11:24:04 AM
The only thing I can think of is that sometimes when trying to find neutral, the gear indicator just goes blank.  No big deal since I can normally just shift up and back down and get the "N" to show up.  I must not have noticed when I left the bike on this occasion.  Anyone ever have this happen?

I have had the indicator go blank like you mentioned but it's never caused the bike to get dropped, thank goodness!
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: tjung on September 09, 2013, 11:29:11 AM
I can't remember precisely whether I had the clutch in or not.  My last bike had a lockout switch that didn't allow you to start the bike without the clutch, so I am in the habit of squeezing it while starting.  But maybe I didn't this time.  Either way I was very embarassed and a little confused to say the least.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: ZG on September 09, 2013, 11:53:37 AM
 :'(

Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: RBX QB on September 09, 2013, 12:11:05 PM
... sometimes when trying to find neutral, the gear indicator just goes blank.  No big deal since I can normally just shift up and back down and get the "N" to show up. ...

I have had the indicator go blank like you mentioned but it's never caused the bike to get dropped, thank goodness!

+1... Because of this, I started making a habit of pulling the clutch while starting the bike (even when I'm not ON the bike), and releasing the clutch slowly. I fear the same thing that happened to you.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: maxtog on September 09, 2013, 04:12:22 PM
+1... Because of this, I started making a habit of pulling the clutch while starting the bike (even when I'm not ON the bike), and releasing the clutch slowly. I fear the same thing that happened to you.

+2... I always do the exact same thing.

First check for green light, then clutch and start, then SLOWLY release clutch.  It is just automatic.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: RBX QB on September 09, 2013, 04:54:36 PM
+2... I always do the exact same thing.

First check for green light, then clutch and start, then SLOWLY release clutch.  It is just automatic.

I forgot to mention checking for the green light first...
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: clogan on September 09, 2013, 09:11:43 PM
Clutch plates often stick together after bikes sit for a while. Then when starter is engaged, bike can often "jump" forward, regardless of gear position, or clutch engagment.

My KLR is notorious for this. It jumps at least a foot forward whenever I start it. I always have to make sure I have the rear brake depressed when starting, or it will jump right thru the garage wall.

Perhaps this affects your C14 as well.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: stevewfl on September 09, 2013, 10:24:24 PM
Clutch plates often stick together after bikes sit for a while. Then when starter is engaged, bike can often "jump" forward, regardless of gear position, or clutch engagment.

My KLR is notorious for this. It jumps at least a foot forward whenever I start it. I always have to make sure I have the rear brake depressed when starting, or it will jump right thru the garage wall.

Perhaps this affects your C14 as well.

where does it get power to do that?  perhaps I need to keep my FOB in my pocket when I ride my KLR!   (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/bigthumb.gif.html)
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: Son of Pappy on September 09, 2013, 11:09:06 PM
Sounds like a faulty gear position indicator (GPI) switch.  If a bike is in neutral there is no gear engagement and no sudden lurch, regardless of sticky plates.  Just isn't possible.  My one and only warranty repair was the GPI, read all kinds of wonky numbers.  My KLR was bad enough that I always mounted, verified neutral, started, clutched, brake and shifted to first as I KNEW it would lurch.  KTM is almost as bad and it doesn't have any of the safety switches.
As I always park in first (my brake of sorts) it is just routine to shift into neutral and hit the magic button.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: jonathan on September 10, 2013, 09:34:26 AM
When I start the bike on the side stand I check for the green light, hold the clutch and the front brake and then start up. Once it is running I slowly release the clutch while still holding the brake and then when I'm sure it's OK I release the brake.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: Daytona_Mike on September 10, 2013, 10:23:01 AM
I have a funny habit of not starting a bike up  unless I am on it.
I do not now know when or why I started  but I think it is a good practice.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: Bourne2Ride on September 10, 2013, 11:31:51 AM
I have a funny habit of not starting a bike up  unless I am on it.
I do not now know when or why I started  but I think it is a good practice.
I thought only Harley riders started their bikes before they got on. I was told they need the warm up time while they get their gloves and helmet on.  ::)
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: Conniesaki on September 10, 2013, 12:27:57 PM
Center stand?
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 10, 2013, 01:09:03 PM
Very rarely on this bike.  The center stand has a tendency to sink into hot asphalt.  I'd only use that option on concrete.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: maxtog on September 10, 2013, 03:57:00 PM
I thought only Harley riders started their bikes before they got on. I was told they need the warm up time while they get their gloves and helmet on.  ::)

I almost always start my bike when not on it.  My GPS takes "forever" to get fully booted and ready to go (the music part is what it has to "think" about forever).  Besides, being warmer before moving is better.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: RBX QB on September 10, 2013, 04:43:41 PM
I almost always start my bike when not on it.  My GPS takes "forever" to get fully booted and ready to go (the music part is what it has to "think" about forever).  Besides, being warmer before moving is better.

I'm almost always warmer before I start moving.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: McJunkie on September 11, 2013, 07:03:26 AM
My bike does this as well since I use the center stand to shut the bike of in gear. I put it in neutral before starting it and pull the clutch and hold the brake when starting or the bike will jump. The clutch plates stick together as stated before.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: Gsun on September 11, 2013, 08:28:12 PM
You should take it in under warranty. I would think the clutch plates would not stick together since it is a wet clutch. Sounds like a faulty switch. They should pay for any damage as well. I say, should, they probably won't.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: clogan on September 12, 2013, 02:54:43 PM
Sounds like a faulty gear position indicator (GPI) switch.  If a bike is in neutral there is no gear engagement and no sudden lurch, regardless of sticky plates.  Just isn't possible...

Maybe it's just me, then. But my KLR jumps when I engage the starter, regardless of gear position, and regardless of clutch position...my C14 jumps...the Rocket III that I had would jump...the Busa I had would jump. This is a very common trait in my experience (riding since 1970), but like I say...maybe it's just me.

Anybody else out there have a bike that "jumps" forward slightly (or sometimes more than slightly) when you hit the starter? Perhaps it's the oil I'm using - Suzuki brand 10w40 motorcycle oil. Perhaps it's something else I'm doing. Silverdammit is a pretty smart guy, so when he says it's just not possible, I've gotta pay attention. But then again, in my experience, it's not only possible, it's the norm.

Edit: after further thought, maybe all my "jumping" happens when my bikes are parked with 1st gear engaged- not in neutral. I need to do some more checking and report back. Like I say, Silverdamit is a pretty smart guy, so it's gotta be something I'm doing (or not doing).
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: maxtog on September 12, 2013, 03:02:48 PM
Maybe it's just me, then. But my KLR jumps when I engage the starter, regardless of gear position, and regardless of clutch position...my C14 jumps...the Rocket III that I had would jump...the Busa I had would jump. This is a very common trait in my experience (riding since 1970), but like I say...maybe it's just me.

Maybe so, since NONE of my bikes ever jumped/moved when started.  The C14 is my third different bike over 13 years (EX, ZRX, C14).

Quote
Edit: after further thought, maybe all my "jumping" happens when my bikes are parked with 1st gear engaged- not in neutral.

I never leave the bike in gear, except when on a ferry.  And when I put it in neutral and start it, it doesn't jump/move then, either.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: pistole on September 12, 2013, 04:59:05 PM
- check your kickstand switch.

- no matter whether you were in-gear , or whatever , it should not have started with the kickstand down if it wasn't neutral at the box.

.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: x9rider on September 16, 2013, 07:35:00 AM
Mine will sometimes jump as well. grab some brake before you start it to eliminate the problem. I also am going to be checking my clutch adjustment as well to make sure it is correctly adjusted, but it seems ok.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 16, 2013, 08:43:58 AM
Clutch adjustment?  Where do you adjust the clutch?
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: Rhino on September 16, 2013, 09:01:15 AM
My DR650 requires the clutch in to start so I am in the habit of always on the bike holding in the clutch to start. When the bike is cold, it does want to move when in neutral when I let the clutch out. But only with a cold start on a cold day. 
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: x9rider on September 17, 2013, 07:06:30 AM
Clutch adjustment?  Where do you adjust the clutch?

There's no clutch adjustment? I haven't had time to look yet or consult the manual. I know it's hydraulic. I'm too used to cable adjustments I guess.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 17, 2013, 10:19:59 AM
Nope, nada, none.... ;)   You may be able to fiddle with the lever a bit, but that's about it.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: clogan on September 17, 2013, 02:40:14 PM
Maybe it's just me, then. But my KLR jumps when I engage the starter, regardless of gear position, and regardless of clutch position...my C14 jumps...the Rocket III that I had would jump...the Busa I had would jump. This is a very common trait in my experience (riding since 1970), but like I say...maybe it's just me.

Anybody else out there have a bike that "jumps" forward slightly (or sometimes more than slightly) when you hit the starter? Perhaps it's the oil I'm using - Suzuki brand 10w40 motorcycle oil. Perhaps it's something else I'm doing. Silverdammit is a pretty smart guy, so when he says it's just not possible, I've gotta pay attention. But then again, in my experience, it's not only possible, it's the norm.

Edit: after further thought, maybe all my "jumping" happens when my bikes are parked with 1st gear engaged- not in neutral. I need to do some more checking and report back. Like I say, Silverdamit is a pretty smart guy, so it's gotta be something I'm doing (or not doing).

After further review, I can confirm that both of my bikes "jump" when started, but only if they are in gear when the starter button is pushed. So, Silverdammit, above, is absolutely correct. I've been parking my bikes in 1st gear for so long now, that I mistakenly thought they jumped regardless of gear position. Nope: no gear, no jump.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: Son of Pappy on September 17, 2013, 02:45:14 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: Scaffolder on September 17, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
- check your kickstand switch.

- no matter whether you were in-gear , or whatever , it should not have started with the kickstand down if it wasn't neutral at the box.

.
+1
My 2010 had a kickstand shut off switch that wasn't working. It was an easy fix. At the base of my kickstand the switch wasn't properly attached to the kickstand. I bent it out and on to the kickstand. Has worked ever since. My bikes are always in neutral when not in use.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: SVonhof on September 26, 2013, 01:28:23 PM
When I rode in to work the other day, I had the bike in the driveway as I was getting ready and I always get all geared up before starting so I can roll out quickly instead of letting it idle very long and pissing off any sleeping neighbors (I leave for work at 5am).

The first time I rolled my new Concours onto the driveway, I didn't put it in first and she rolled forward and fell over as the kickstand folded underneath so I always engage first before getting off the bike and finishing gearing up (I have to get on the bike to get it out of the garage).

So, anyway, back to Tuesday morning. I had the bike in first and was fully geared up, got on the bike and get it upright and put the sidestand up, pull in the clutch and hit the starter and it jumps forward (clutch lever was pulled all the way in). I went with it and rolled down the driveway and down the street as I basically idle out of the neighborhood anyway.  But this is not the first time this has happened with first gear and the clutch.

I have also had the bike in first when parked, and gotten on the bike to move it forward and first didn't fully let go even when the clutch was pulled in all the way, so it dragged so much that I couldn't push the bike forward and had to put it into neutral before moving it.

Strange? Seems like it to me. I will be asking the dealer about it when I bring it in for the cam sensor seal, front brake rotor replacement and service (glad I extended the GTPP...).
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: wendel on October 05, 2013, 05:07:32 AM
Clutch plates often stick together after bikes sit for a while. Then when starter is engaged, bike can often "jump" forward, regardless of gear position, or clutch engagment.

My KLR is notorious for this. It jumps at least a foot forward whenever I start it. I always have to make sure I have the rear brake depressed when starting, or it will jump right thru the garage wall.

Perhaps this affects your C14 as well.
This has happened to me. I always use the front brake. I live in a mountain area and the bike will roll when the clutch is pulled in. I have to park in gear to keep it from rolling away. I don't believe this will happen if you park in neutral. Not sure though.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: Cuda on October 05, 2013, 05:29:09 AM
Most of the time I push the start button while off the bike to let it warm up ?
 It won't start if in gear ?
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: JoeRau on October 05, 2013, 05:58:45 AM
Not sure what to make of the several different stories here.  My '12 C14 will not jump at anytime.  I tried a few different things....
1 side stand down, in gear, clutch lever released = no crank
2 side stand up, in gear, clutch lever released = no crank
3 side stand down, neutral, clutch lever released = start with no jump
4 side stand up, neutral, clutch lever released = start with no jump
5 side stand down, in gear, clutch lever engaged = start with no jump
6 side stand up, in gear, clutch lever engaged = start with no jump

As I understand, this is how it is intended to work.

On a side note about rolling off the side stand in Neutral... I had a near disaster one day washing my C14 in the driveway.  I was standing in front of the bike, just finishing washing the windshield when the bike rolled forward- off the side stand.  I was able to bear hug the front and keep it from falling while my neighbor ran over to re-set the side stand.  Since that day I always park in gear or use the center stand. 
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: freebird6 on October 05, 2013, 09:20:13 AM
My 08 always moves a bit on cold start up. When I first came to the forum I read about sticky clutch plates and why it moves when it has been sitting for a while.

I was taught to always pull the clutch in......so I do.

I was taught always to leave it in gear ....so I do.

I learned with this bike to pull the brake in when I start it...so I do.

It became a habit that serves me well.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: SVonhof on October 05, 2013, 10:01:28 AM
Not sure what to make of the several different stories here.  My '12 C14 will not jump at anytime.  I tried a few different things....
1 side stand down, in gear, clutch released = no crank
2 side stand up, in gear, clutch released = no crank
3 side stand down, neutral, clutch released = start with no jump
4 side stand up, neutral, clutch released = start with no jump
5 side stand down, in gear, clutch engaged = start with no jump
6 side stand up, in gear, clutch engaged = start with no jump

As I understand, this is how it is intended to work.

On a side note about rolling off the side stand in Neutral... I had a near disaster one day washing my C14 in the driveway.  I was standing in front of the bike, just finishing washing the windshield when the bike rolled forward- off the side stand.  I was able to bear hug the front and keep it from falling while my neighbor ran over to re-set the side stand.  Since that day I always park in gear or use the center stand. 

I think you have engaged and released backward here. If you have the bike in gear and the clutch is engaged (meaning you have not touched the lever) and you try to start it it should either not start at all or the started will be pushing you forward since the gears are turning.

Mind you, when I put my story up about the bike being in gear and the clutch released (so it slips) and the bike lurched forward, this is not a common thing for me but does happen sometimes.
Title: Re: Dropped Bike
Post by: JoeRau on October 05, 2013, 10:52:47 AM
I think you have engaged and released backward here. If you have the bike in gear and the clutch is engaged (meaning you have not touched the lever) and you try to start it it should either not start at all or the started will be pushing you forward since the gears are turning.

Mind you, when I put my story up about the bike being in gear and the clutch released (so it slips) and the bike lurched forward, this is not a common thing for me but does happen sometimes.

I should have said clutch lever engaged, rather than the clutch...