Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: IraB on September 07, 2013, 10:31:29 PM
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You guys were giving them to me, so this is how I spent my day.
I shall sleep like a baby tonight with the stock petcock set to the middle position. :D
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Very nicely done IraB you roll your own? As in overflow tubes....
You've gone this far I hope that you went ahead and cleaned them puppies while you have the bank on the bench....
I've been needing to clean my slow speed circuits since I went to the 2010 Nationals; but I keep making excuses and have gotten quite adept at feathering the choke lever as needed to keep throttle response acceptable.
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Thanks
Done similar things before and have a well equipped shop so it wasn't really all that difficult.
On the other hand, it is also a great way to screw up a set of perfectly good carbs, so anyone who has any doubts about it would be better off sending them into to Shoudabeen.
The carbs were already clean as a whistle but I did rinse them out a little. Hardest part is getting those &^** intake boots all back on. Is there some trick to make that easier that I just don't know about?
Picking up some alum plate to fab some block off plates this week. Also planing to roll my own tip over bars.....probably not very well said eh? :D
Also fixed a crack in the belly fairing plastic using some pre MEK ban ABS glue and painted it with bed liner. Looks better than new. Used the same glue to install a Murph's fender extender. Really strange to me that they designed the stock fender to feed mud and crap into the cooler and radiator? I'll be riding year round here in the Pacific Northwest so that was a must have.
One thing that is out of my league is a 7th gear type mod. Hoping "The Boss" will authorize that kit purchase for Christmas. ;)
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Sounds like your well versed and have an equipped shop; you should prove to be well liked if there are any nearby Concours owners.....
As to the fender yeah well form over function is sometimes how it goes in the appearance department.... I to like many ran with a fenda extenda on both my stock Concours front end as well as on my ZRX front end too...
Steve's 7th gear mod is a sweet treat if you spend lots of time at super slab speeds; with an even bigger reward if you use a larger tire like the 160/80-16... Me I used the 7th gear but went to a 170/60-17 so I lost a little height thus loosing a little of the RPM reducing advantage of the 7th gear. But the improvement in handling far out weights the loss.
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Already find myself looking for 7th once in awhile.
Have not really been into bikes for quite awhile but am always fixing/ modding/ fabing something.
Be glad to help any other owners in a bind but it won't be easy. I pretty much work 7 days a week like a rented mule.
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How I make the intake boots softer and more pliable to put on..... still not easy..... is simply to soak them in REALLY hot water for a few minutes before beginning the fight to get them back in place. Relatively quick, cheap and easy.
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Install a $5 lawnmower shutoff valve in the fuel line and really sleep.
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Install a $5 lawnmower shutoff valve in the fuel line and really sleep.
And really suffer from insufficiently filled carbs while riding...
Seriously, anything in the fuel line is an accident waiting to happen, especially if the tank vents aren't opperating at 110% Keep a good petcock, you've done a nice job on the overflow tubes, and you'll be fine.
BTW I did youtube video's on carb removal / installation, you'll find a heat gun is your friend when it comes to the airbox boots - Steve
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Been using them for years without problems. They flow enough fuel to prevent fuel starvation. And they work.
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And really suffer from insufficiently filled carbs while riding...
Seriously, anything in the fuel line is an accident waiting to happen, especially if the tank vents aren't opperating at 110% Keep a good petcock, you've done a nice job on the overflow tubes, and you'll be fine.
BTW I did youtube video's on carb removal / installation, you'll find a heat gun is your friend when it comes to the airbox boots - Steve
I like the heat gun idea. I'm sure hot water would work too but it sounds like almost as much of a PITA as the problem it addresses.
Initially pondered the inline valve. Worked with many and a large enough diameter ball type valve should provide unrestricted flow. The problem is that it really does not totally address the flooding/hydrolock issue.
1. Any valve, inline or otherwise, could leak/fail (which is already part of the cause of the hydrolock issue ) and allow enough fuel to pass to result in a bummer morning. Also if you have a stuck float valve and forget to shut your fuel just one time..... =:o
2. I actually like the stock, vacuum operated shut off valve.
A good friend dumped his bike taking off from a stop into a left turn at an intersection and was run over by a car driven by someone jabbering on their cell phone. The primary cause was that he had forgotten to turn on his fuel valve and the bike stalled.
Admit it it, we all have those moments and the factory petcock largely gets that safety issue out of the way.
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You say the inline valve COULD fail yet you want to rely on the vac operated valve that is PROVEN to fail?
Do you remember to raise the sidestand? Then you can remember to turn on the fuel.
The hydrolocking problem is caused by a lousy petcock compounded by even crappier carb needles/seats.
You guys need to get cheap...I mean frugal.
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Let's put it this way. My petcock lasted 18 yrs and never failed. I only replaced it because it was old. Yes, some do fail. All things fail!! Even people fail. Like forgetting to turn off the petcock. Unless you are infallible which I doubt.
Stock petcock and overflow tubes works fine.
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And you know the petcock and needles have failed when you have gas all over the garage floor. Hope your water heater isn't in the garage.
Do you have a self retracting sidestand? Does your helmet put itself on your head?
BTW-how do you know your petcock hasn't failed, that is, unless you have removed the tank?
I'm not knocking overflow tube, don't misunderstand. I think the proper solution is to fix what causes the hydrolock.
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Everytime I remove the tank I pull the fuel line off. If it doesn't leak out off the petcock, it's good. Even if you don't have overflow tubes if the bike sits in your garage long enough with bad float needles the gas will overflow into the airbox and probably onto the floor. Even if you don't see it you will probably smell it.
If you forget and leave your petcock on and your float needle leaks you WILL have gas where it doesn't belong.
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:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :hitfan:
Must be a slow day in the arena...
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:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :hitfan:
Must be a slow day in the arena...
Play nice boys; don't make me get out the hose.... ::)
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And you know the petcock and needles have failed when you have gas all over the garage floor. Hope your water heater isn't in the garage.
Do you have a self retracting sidestand? Does your helmet put itself on your head?
BTW-how do you know your petcock hasn't failed, that is, unless you have removed the tank?
I'm not knocking overflow tube, don't misunderstand. I think the proper solution is to fix what causes the hydrolock.
I won't address all your comments but I do plan to remove the fuel line to the carbs on the morning of all future oil changes to look for indications of petcock leakage.
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If you leave a manual shutoff on and the carbs flood you still have another problem.
YOU left the fuel on.
And you still have the crappy float needles/seats.
Do you have a self retracting sidestand? Why not? You "will" forget to retract it.
I have been playing nice. Some folks don't like others who don't scurry for cover when they bellow. I am of the opinion you fix the underlying problem. Rather than apply a band aid and call it fixed. YMMV.
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If you leave a manual shutoff on and the carbs flood you still have another problem.
YOU left the fuel on.
And you still have the crappy float needles/seats.
Do you have a self retracting sidestand? Why not? You "will" forget to retract it.
I have been playing nice. Some folks don't like others who don't scurry for cover when they bellow. I am of the opinion you fix the underlying problem. Rather than apply a band aid and call it fixed. YMMV.
heheh, Hitler's Revenge.
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I have a bike with a self retracting sidestand. Unfortunately when it's deployed the bike falls due to the stand being at the front of the bike. I use the c-stand instead. Mussolini's revenge.
And it has two OEM manual petcocks. Lol.
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If you leave a manual shutoff on and the carbs flood you still have another problem.
YOU left the fuel on.
And you still have the crappy float needles/seats.
Do you have a self retracting sidestand? Why not? You "will" forget to retract it.
I have been playing nice. Some folks don't like others who don't scurry for cover when they bellow. I am of the opinion you fix the underlying problem. Rather than apply a band aid and call it fixed. YMMV.
You do know that manual petcocks can also leak....right?
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You do know that manual petcocks can also leak....right?
Ya can't win this one IraB.... Some folks just prefer to depend on simple time proved components.
As a Ships Engineer I will tell you I am too prefer a manually operated valve as while a manual valve can indeed leak past its seat it is going to less prone to failure than a valve that depends on another mechanical devise to operate it. This is the issue with the vacuum operated petcock that while it might work without issue for 20 years on Tom's bike there is nothing to prevent it from having issue on Joe's bike in 9 years. But as long as the float valves never fugg up Joe's bike he will never be the wiser that his petcock is leaking by....
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Ya can't win this one IraB.... Some folks just prefer to depend on simple time proved components.
As a Ships Engineer I will tell you I am too prefer a manually operated valve as while a manual valve can indeed leak past its seat it is going to less prone to failure than a valve that depends on another mechanical devise to operate it. This is the issue with the vacuum operated petcock that while it might work without issue for 20 years on Tom's bike there is nothing to prevent it from having issue on Joe's bike in 9 years. But as long as the float valves never fugg up Joe's bike he will never be the wiser that his petcock is leaking by....
Not knocking a manual petcock in general, just not willing to rely on it 100% to avoid hydrolock.
I am considering a manual petcock (along with a big, embarrassing reminder placard) myself but the conversion kit approach seems a little cheesy to me.
Does anyone know of a manual petcock that is a bolt in replacement for the vacuum/ stock one?
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Not knocking a manual petcock in general, just not willing to rely on it 100% to avoid hydrolock.
I am considering a manual petcock (along with a big, embarrassing reminder placard) myself but the conversion kit approach seems a little cheesy to me.
Does anyone know of a manual petcock that is a bolt in replacement for the vacuum/ stock one?
There you go; no ONE fix is 100 % one needs to adapt a multi tier approach....
I've had the Bergam manual conversion from Murph for a long time and it is simple and well made.
You can get a Pingle manual petcock to bolt in with a very small amount of file work (5 minutes) ....
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I converted the OEM vacuum unit to the Bergmen manual and it worked great for a few years until the spring went bad, lost tension and the valve leaked. That spring was the OEM unit and not part of Dan's manual kit. I rebuilt that valve using a K&L kit, which had out-of-spec parts that made it leak even worse, so bad I could not leave the fuel hose from the tank attached. it grounded the bike until I got it fixed. I rebuilt it with OEM genuine Kawasaki parts and it failed again after a couple of months. I put in a Pingel and stopped worrying. It has not leaked yet, and IF I forget to turn it off/on, then I have no one to blame but me. I have a rule, though, which is this: If I ever get on the bike and the valve is already in the ON position, I will NOT attempt a start until I have verified no fuel in the cylinders. (So far this hasn't happened. ;)) I also have overflow tubes, and I also pull my carbs every year in the fall to clean them and check the float valves. Not everyone wants to get that familiar with their machines, and I respect that. The Pingel eliminates a lot of that risk, but nothing is entirely without risk, it is just a matter of which risks we each decide we want to manage/mitigate. It's like the arguments on the gun forums for/against magazine safeties. Some like them, some hate them. Nothing will ever be perfect in ALL circumstances.
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I did my own conversion and it doesn't use springs, diaphragms, or adjustment screws. You do however need access to a laythe, drill, and basic hand tools - as well as the ability to use them. Having an O ring and rubber seal on the handle it could still leak but that's highly unlikely, any tap of any design can leak.
Having said that Murphs sells a good kit at a reasonable price: http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=483 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=483)
The most important thing is to have float valves that don't leak - if they're good you will not have hydrolock. Over flow tubes are great peace of mind though.
Regards, Russell
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That's the other problem. The float needles are proven to be shyte.
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That's the other problem. The float needles are proven to be shyte.
The ones in my 86 Ninja worked till 2008 ... 22 years don't seem all that bad to me.
One float needle in my 99 ZG started leaking in 2012 ... even 13 years don't seem too bad. JMHO
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Yours seem to be the exception.
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Yours seem to be the exception.
Mines an '86 and still on original float needles.
Regards, Russell