Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: motocopter on August 20, 2013, 08:08:48 PM
-
My bike did the herky-jerky bucking this Sunday. It occurred on command after whacking open the throttle at about 5k rpm. At first, I suspected something electrical since I had just checked valve clearances and having to disconnect several in the process, two weekends ago. Well nothing there. The negative battery terminal could rotate with a bit of pressure, but not an intermittent connection. Anyway, it did run fine with partial throttle settings, so it had to be fuel related.
Then, I recalled this fuel filter clogging others have experienced. So, this afternoon off came the tank and out came the pump. Pictures are below. Some of the particles shop towel were attracted to a magnet. Others looked like white pvc plastic bits. Then, there is the black smegma.
It's all back together without any drama, and will fire it up tomorrow.
Just under 17k miles on the 2012.
I'm going to investigate an external filter. My 750turbo had that set-up OEM - including a regulator, pump, and the tank petcock. Everything was external.
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss159/Motocopter/Concours%2014/Fuel_Filter_Cleaning_2013AUG205_zpsc8836683.jpg) (http://s571.photobucket.com/user/Motocopter/media/Concours%2014/Fuel_Filter_Cleaning_2013AUG205_zpsc8836683.jpg.html)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss159/Motocopter/Concours%2014/Fuel_Filter_Cleaning_2013AUG208_zpsce3d274c.jpg) (http://s571.photobucket.com/user/Motocopter/media/Concours%2014/Fuel_Filter_Cleaning_2013AUG208_zpsce3d274c.jpg.html)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss159/Motocopter/Concours%2014/Fuel_Filter_Cleaning_2013AUG209_zpsed3abc70.jpg) (http://s571.photobucket.com/user/Motocopter/media/Concours%2014/Fuel_Filter_Cleaning_2013AUG209_zpsed3abc70.jpg.html)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss159/Motocopter/Concours%2014/Fuel_Filter_Cleaning_2013AUG2011_zpsa94cf3fa-1.jpg) (http://s571.photobucket.com/user/Motocopter/media/Concours%2014/Fuel_Filter_Cleaning_2013AUG2011_zpsa94cf3fa-1.jpg.html)
-
- amazing stuff there.
- hope she runs strong after this.
.
-
Then, there is the black smegma.
For the truly brave, do a google search on smegma and look at the images, probably not NSFW. ;D
-
Smegma... cheese like substance found on old Pizza Inn pizza... ;D
-
Why not replace the sock? It looks identical to the one used on my 2007 Weestrom. Anyone try that route yet?
-
Stop going to that junkyard gas station. ::)
-
Ethanol laced gas, nasty stuff. Add in dirty fuel in tanks at your local crap stop=ugly....
-
Ethanol laced gas, nasty stuff.
:o
-
Had to do this a while ago and certainly resolved the humpty dumpty problem on accelerating.
The hardest part for me was trying to undo those electrical connectors with the 3 prongs. Ended up using 3 jewelry screwdrivers depressing each tongue and maneuvering. Please advise how you disconnected them.
Many thanks
-
To briefly help with some of the questions asked.
Regarding warranty, I cannot expect Kawasaki to cover problems linked to contaminated fuel. It's just not their problem. Besides, a couple of hours in the garage versus who knows how long in the shop, and then experiencing the possible repair bill of hundreds of dollars to replace the pump (parts and labor) because of what I just mentioned.
Connectors for the pump and sending unit have a single release point. If I recall they were the version to lift and not depress.
The bike is running much better but has/had a couple of misses at around 9k rpm experienced during a short ride today. For the most part, I'll be riding more tomorrow and locally.
-
Regarding warranty, I cannot expect Kawasaki to cover problems linked to contaminated fuel. It's just not their problem.
I have to agree. If there is no sign of it coming from the tank or pump itself, it is clearly not warranty.
The bike is running much better but has/had a couple of misses at around 9k rpm experienced during a short ride today. For the most part, I'll be riding more tomorrow and locally.
You might want to run a tank of Techron through it since you have obviously had some questionable gas. http://www.amazon.com/Chevron-65740-Techron-Concentrate-Cleaner/dp/B00092893E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377299843&sr=8-1&keywords=techron (http://www.amazon.com/Chevron-65740-Techron-Concentrate-Cleaner/dp/B00092893E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377299843&sr=8-1&keywords=techron)
-
For the truly brave, do a google search on smegma and look at the images, probably not NSFW. ;D
shoulda just took your word for it.... :pukeface:
-
I rode my first rally last Saturday when I had my '10 Connie fall on its face, BAD, while accelerating from a stop light.
Just finished up cleaning the screen and took a test ride. Problem solved. ;D
The beauty of this fix was since I have had the tank off a number of times before working on my aux tank install, the whole job took me under an hour.
And yes it was the usual black smegma with small pieces of some kind of "material"
John
-
My engine performance is back! My chocked strainer issue ends with a new replacement installed. It was gradual degradation for sure. First a couple of engine stalls leaving traffic signal which were dismissed as maybe a bit of clutch laziness, and secondly by dull throttle response that was noticeable during down shifting. All is good again.
Since these filters are readily available, I won't be bothering to find a solution for an in-line filter - at this time.
From left to right: Original filter with nearly 17k miles and 180 miles after a bit of cleaning; the middle is a low-mileage 2012 retrieved from a pump that came off of a totaled 2012 that still had virtually new OEM 'stones; and finally the new filter.
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss159/Motocopter/Replacement_filter1_zps0f2cdd57.jpg) (http://s571.photobucket.com/user/Motocopter/media/Replacement_filter1_zps0f2cdd57.jpg.html)
-
First post and bumping a one year old thread to promote a product. Hmmmmmm.
-
Taken care of...
-
Glad you bumped it. Some good info here.
"First a couple of engine stalls leaving traffic signal which were dismissed as maybe a bit of clutch laziness"
I've had a couple of those recently. I was going to bump up the idle (currently at 1000 rpm) but maybe I should look at my fuel filter as well.
-
Motocoptor, I am trying to understand how you got the fuel pump and filter separated. If you happen to be listening to this forum and thread, and can post up how the pump came apart, I would be very interested to know. I have mine sitting on the bench right now, and any help understanding how to separate all of the components would be appreciated. Thanks.
-
Welcome to the forum John T!!!
-
Thanks
-
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17493.msg213541#msg213541 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17493.msg213541#msg213541)
-
wow, seems like they could have designed the pump a little better knowing that the filter would need replacing. Nice write ups though, will come in handy if the need arises.
-
I've already done mine... If you have 50k miles plus, it's a matter of time before you start getting symptoms. My bike started to stumble a bit around 60k. After I replaced the filter, I never had it do that again.
-
New weekend plan, ride the crap out of it on Saturday, come back empty and replace filter on Sunday. Wait, need to first get a new filter. New new plan, ride the crap out of it on Saturday and Sunday, do the filter on another weekend.
-
I thought my Connie was sluggish this morning, Then a truck tried messing with me. I pulled a holeshot, but it was crooked. Set it back down and reapplied the throttle. That Connie stood up on it's back tire and laid waste to everything in my rear view mirrors...
I guess it will be OK. 8)
Thinking a thing of Techron and an air filter cleaning is in order though. ;)
-
Thinking a thing of Techron and an air filter cleaning is in order though. ;)
I do like Techron and have used it for many years, occasionally, for my vehicles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techron)
http://www.techron.com/ (http://www.techron.com/)
-
I am not sure that is quite correct, Jim. If the fuel used is of decent quality, and an occasional dose of fuel injector (or fuel system) cleaner is used, I believe the fuel pump filter (really it is only a screen) will last the life of the vehicle. Sure some folks have had problems but it does seem to be a relatively small percentage overall (based on posts, which of course is not real data but it is an indicator) of the bikes in use.
Most cars use the identical same arrangement and do not seem to suffer many problems in this area. Often the auto screens are considerably larger but most autos use far more fuel per mile (and over the life of the vehicle) than bikes do.
Brian
I've already done mine... If you have 50k miles plus, it's a matter of time before you start getting symptoms. My bike started to stumble a bit around 60k. After I replaced the filter, I never had it do that again.
-
Nothing wrong with using a new filter of course but the old ones will clean up just fine too; I would not wait to get a new filter if I had the opportunity to clean the existing one. The filter is really just a plastic sheet that is perforated, not unlike a collunder for cooking. Just soak the screen in some gasoline and spray it down with something like brake cleaner, then wipe it on a cloth rag. It will be stained dark brown to black (they are white when new) but the plastic does not seem to suffer for it and the perforations will again be full sized. I have cleaned mine successfully although it was not clogged anyway; I just happened to be in there changing out the fuel pump assembly during a painful testing phase. :(
Brian
New weekend plan, ride the crap out of it on Saturday, come back empty and replace filter on Sunday. Wait, need to first get a new filter. New new plan, ride the crap out of it on Saturday and Sunday, do the filter on another weekend.
-
I am a firm believer in running 5-6oz of Seafoam treatment in my Connie once a month. I am especially diligent with using this on my Vmax which is susceptible to fuel related problems. Regular use of Seafoam keep it running strong.
-
Nothing wrong with using a new filter of course but the old ones will clean up just fine too; I would not wait to get a new filter if I had the opportunity to clean the existing one. The filter is really just a plastic sheet that is perforated, not unlike a collunder for cooking. Just soak the screen in some gasoline and spray it down with something like brake cleaner, then wipe it on a cloth rag. It will be stained dark brown to black (they are white when new) but the plastic does not seem to suffer for it and the perforations will again be full sized. I have cleaned mine successfully although it was not clogged anyway; I just happened to be in there changing out the fuel pump assembly during a painful testing phase. :(
Brian
I was able to pick up a lightly used (low mileage) complete fuel pump. I swapped the original with that one and then rebuilt the original with a new filter. The original pump with new filter is sitting on the shelf with the tip over bars. If I need to do it again, then I'll just swap them.
-
That has to be the best protected fuel pump I've heard of.
-
:rotflmao:
That has to be the best protected fuel pump I've heard of.
-
The original pump with new filter is sitting on the shelf with the tip over bars.
Could you please take a pic? ;D Curious how it looks. Thx.
-
I just thought I would leave this here.
Yes this is a ZX6R fuel pump ( but it is the same assembly sort as the C14)- and yes this did actually run, but nothing really above idle
-
:yikes: I've never seen one here that bad! Was this an accumulation over time or one take of very bad gas?
-
The tank was rusty, and simply judging on the amount- I would surmise this is a build up over time.
-
Caused by ethanol? ???
That's what I blame for the white crusty :censored: on the inside of my gascap. ;)
Sugar in our fuel. >:(
-
I'm not sure what causes the white crusty stuff as some have had it and some don't and the majority of use ethanol laced fuels. Don't think I can blame this totally on the gas.
-
Caused by ethanol? ???
That's what I blame for the white crusty :censored: on the inside of my gascap. ;)
Sugar in our fuel. >:(
Well ethanol does absorb moisture, moisture does cause rust...
I see tons of gas caps (since the introduction/mandate) of ethanol with the white crusty and the latches don't return properly---wasn't an issue pre ethanol being forced as the norm...
So one can deduce what one wants from that
I see ethanol as the devil and don't run it in anything I own, the few times I have had to, my cars get worse mileage and don't run nearly as good
your results may vary...
-
It is so hard to walk away from this kind of stuff but I am tryin'.
:rotflmao:
Brian
I'm not sure what causes the white crusty stuff as some have had it and some don't.... <snip>
-
It is so hard to walk away from this kind of stuff but I am tryin'.
:rotflmao:
Brian
Just give in, Brian. :rotflmao:
-
Just give in, Brian. :rotflmao:
+1......
-
Have just joined forum from Australia. Have owned 2 1400 GTR's, (concourse), 2006 and 2013. Great bike except fuel filter problems. Original bike have problem with cutting out generally when on the gas overtaking. Would leave you high and dry half way round a car. Eventually tracked to fuel filter. Kawasaki refused to pay for many hours of labour it took to work out the problem. Was told is my fault for using bad fuel (always use 98 octane). Fuel filter had to be cleaned every 10 thousand km or problem would re occur. Kawasaki assured me that this problem had not appeared in any other bike. I traded the bike in 2013 for a new GTR assured that would be no problem with the new model. After less than 10 thousand km same problem occurred! Again Kawasaki do not accept that there is a problem. Before going on a big ride I remove pump and filter and clean or replace it. Again Kawasaki want you to purchase a complete fuel pump and filter assembly, over $400 they claim the filter is non serviceable. Also claim that filter never needs replacement. The filter is the same as from the Kawasaki mule, which again Kawasaki don't seem to want you to know. Just got back from ride today and bike cutting out again, VERY FRUSTRATING. As said before great bike needs work on filter design also Kawasaki after sales service not good enough. If someone is killed do to this problem that Kawasaki are "unaware of" I think Kawasaki would be liable. Sorry for winge.
-
Have just joined forum from Australia.
Welcome!!!!
Have owned 2 1400 GTR's, (concourse), 2006 and 2013.
No "e" in spelling, no "s" sound when saying; this isn't an airport! :)
Great bike except fuel filter problems. Original bike have problem with cutting out generally when on the gas overtaking. Would leave you high and dry half way round a car. Eventually tracked to fuel filter. Kawasaki refused to pay for many hours of labour it took to work out the problem. Was told is my fault for using bad fuel (always use 98 octane).
Having poor quality fuel (fuel that has contaminates and/or is not properly filtered at the pump) can certainly clog the filter. And you should use the proper octane fuel to get the correct performance, mileage, and to prevent engine damage. But using the wrong octane fuel will not affect the fuel filter in any way.
From the rest of your story, I would be very scared of the places you are typically obtaining your fuel...
-
Have just joined forum from Australia. Have owned 2 1400 GTR's, (concourse), 2006 and 2013. Great bike except fuel filter problems. Original bike have problem with cutting out generally when on the gas overtaking. Would leave you high and dry half way round a car. Eventually tracked to fuel filter. Kawasaki refused to pay for many hours of labour it took to work out the problem. Was told is my fault for using bad fuel (always use 98 octane). Fuel filter had to be cleaned every 10 thousand km or problem would re occur. Kawasaki assured me that this problem had not appeared in any other bike. I traded the bike in 2013 for a new GTR assured that would be no problem with the new model. After less than 10 thousand km same problem occurred! Again Kawasaki do not accept that there is a problem. Before going on a big ride I remove pump and filter and clean or replace it. Again Kawasaki want you to purchase a complete fuel pump and filter assembly, over $400 they claim the filter is non serviceable. Also claim that filter never needs replacement. The filter is the same as from the Kawasaki mule, which again Kawasaki don't seem to want you to know. Just got back from ride today and bike cutting out again, VERY FRUSTRATING. As said before great bike needs work on filter design also Kawasaki after sales service not good enough. If someone is killed do to this problem that Kawasaki are "unaware of" I think Kawasaki would be liable. Sorry for winge.
You guys down under have a serious fuel problem, lots of dust in the fuel from what I've seen and been told... also, your dealer is pretty much a knob, because the FIRST fuel filter issues encountered were wayyyyy back when Davo Jones, bigtime GTR member in your area, began having issues.. and reported it to Kaw...
We still have his initial posting on the teardown and service, but since he passed on, RIP, the links to his pictures are no longer viable..
10k or 6200 mi here, is wayyy to soon for the filter to get spooged...
-
Welcome BIG W ,I to also from "THE LAND DOWN UNDER".
Firstly I use a fuel sock when filling with fuel, insert into fuel tank fill tank than remove, wipe down with servo paper in store in small container which I keep in the tank bag. A little bit of mucking around but certainly worth it against larger bits of crud that may be in the fuel, anything down to 25 micro.http://www.mainmoto.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&path=40&product_id=100 (http://www.mainmoto.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&path=40&product_id=100)
Complete fuel pump at : http://www.fuelpumpfactory.com/Kawasaki-fuel-pump-Concours-14-s/6323.htm (http://www.fuelpumpfactory.com/Kawasaki-fuel-pump-Concours-14-s/6323.htm)
Replacement fuel filters at : http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/231802988371?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/231802988371?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
-
Firstly I use a fuel sock when filling with fuel, insert into fuel tank fill tank than remove, wipe down with servo paper in store in small container which I keep in the tank bag. A little bit of mucking around but certainly worth it against larger bits of crud that may be in the fuel, anything down to 25 micro.http://www.mainmoto.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&path=40&product_id=100 (http://www.mainmoto.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&path=40&product_id=100)
Neat!! Never heard of such a thing. Sounds like an excellent solution for areas where fuel is not being appropriately filtered at the pump. By why are you removing it? It looks like it is designed to stay in the tank all the time... Of course, they seem to only offer designs for small dirt bikes, so perhaps it doesn't fit correctly.
http://www.split-stream.com/products/splitstream-fuel-filters (http://www.split-stream.com/products/splitstream-fuel-filters)
-
If you check the bottom of the fuel filer cap locking mechanism on your own bike you will find the answer.