Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: RideBellChain on June 30, 2013, 11:07:12 AM
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Hi guys,
This is an issue that I've had the dealer look at and they told me I'm imagining things. I'm not, and the dealer has proven to be a pack of idiots (Broward Motorsports of Palm Beach).
This happens hot or cold, but more when it's cold. Now I'm in Florida, and it's summertime, and cold is about 80 degrees...
I seem to have an issue at very low speed and RPM that is only really noticeable when moving through a parking lot, for example - where I'm just trying to move slowly - just above idle speed, say 1500-1800 rpm...with the clutch partially engaged. (I notice it when letting the clutch out.)
It gets a little bit "jerky". 2 or 3 hiccups, then runs like normal.
If I let the clutch out all the way, it will idle me around with no problems - smooth.
It seems to be when the clutch is either on it's way out, or half-engaged (like when doing a tight circle or u-turn). It's supposed to be AMSOIL in the crankcase, but I don't think the dealer put it in even though I paid extra for it...I will replace the oil next week myself. (The only reason the dealer is touching it is because I bought the prepaid service package thinking I would "save" on the valve adjustment).
I've also developed a slight occasional popping on hard deceleration if that helps.
This has been going on for several months now. I have about 16,500 on my 2012 bike. Like I said, the dealer "didn't notice anything", and basically told me I was nuts, but I've been riding my Concours since mile 1, and it's always been smooth as silk in any operating condition.
So I thought maybe the valves needed adjusting, and took it in at 15,000 for the required adjustments...I don't believe they did ANYTHING. This is a different story and argument, but lets just say they "forgot" to change the air filter, and the one plug I pulled did not look brand new after 1000 miles on it. They kept it for 3 days and returned it to me with the same issue (that I was making up). I'm pretty positive they didn't do a damn thing but change my oil, but again, this is a different issue, just stay away from this dealer is what I'll suggest....when I called them on things, they "said" they did everything, but never produced a worksheet for the valves either.
Anyway, the bike runs fine, pulls hard, etc. It's just at this slow speed that's bugging me. There's no valve pinging, everything sounds great. Another clue - I now have some vibration when doing 85+ on the highway...leading me to think that the FI's are not synced either.
My only mod is a Delkovic pipe, and I've had that on for at least 5000 miles with no issues, popping, etc. so I know it's not the 18" pipe.
So other than starting out with trying some fuel injector cleaner (looking for a good brand suggestion)...any ideas? Anyone else experienced anything like this?
Most people would hop on my bike and say "it runs great", but I KNOW it's had better days.
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance, guys!
Mark
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The popping on deceleration, makes me wonder if it might be a small vacuum leak.
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Get the Amsoil out for sure.
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I've been using AMSOIL for the last 7 years...it's never been a problem, and if anything, seems to make the clutch smoother. I bought some Techron FI cleaner, poured in half the bottle on a full tank, I'll try to run it out and do it again in the next day or so. Hopefully that will make it go away.
What's the level of effort to sync the fuel injectors? I have a Carb-sync that I use on my Royal Star Venture, but never messed with FI before.
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Get the Amsoil out for sure.
What's wrong with Amsoil? This is the first time I've heard anyone say a bad thing about it. I use it in all my stuff with seemingly good results.
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- when I let out my clutch lever , I can definitely feel a two stage thing going on at the lever. There's the first 1/3 of the lever's release , and then there is a hump , followed by the rest of the release.
- its a function of the slipper and is very noticeable esp when you are accelerating hard.
- the hiccup you mention , is it the engine hesitating or the clutch/drivetrain ?
- if its the engine hesitating , thats not normal.
.
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What's wrong with Amsoil? This is the first time I've heard anyone say a bad thing about it. I use it in all my stuff with seemingly good results.
Because some of us here have had less than stellar shifting with it, and I for one think it is snakeoil. Just kind of a running joke here, just ignore my smart assiness.
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I think I've had the same thing going on with my '09... fitted with a Remus... usually when pulling away in first gear, almost like a little hiccup as the rpm builds, usually around 1500-1800 rpm...
I acutally thought it was the Remus..so put the stock muffler back on, and it still does the same thing...
So then the experiments began.... 2nd gear at walking pace, wind it on, and no stutter at all as it passes through the rev range.... and the other point is that if I'm just a little more careful with the clutch, and give it just a bit more throttle, it doesn't happen ....so on again with the Remus... same findings...
So I think it is down to clutch/throttle sync in first gear, and I can live with it.
8)
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The best fuel conditioner and injection cleaner is Lucas- awesome stuff. Buy it by the quart (12.00) to save money, and use it in all your dino burning equipment.
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What is your RPM at idle?
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1100 rpm.
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I keep my '09 idle above 1200 to prevent the stumble, surge, stall syndrome. Strange what a small adjustment can do! ;)
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Does it do it in ECO mode too?
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Worth a try.
I just rode in to work after putting the FI cleaner in. Ran it hard but it's only a 4 mile ride :(
I am really trying to figure out if this is clutch-related, and I think not. If I get the tach to 2000 rpm and hold it steady, I can hear it "missing".
Man, I think it's bad plugs, needs valve adjustment, or needs the FI synced. Everything that should have been done on the 15k, and I can't prove it wasn't done, but I know in my heart it was not. I guess I need to run a few tanks with the FI cleaner before I drop another $600 for the service I should have received.
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Does it do it in ECO mode too?
Good idea, I'll try it on the way home. How do I switch modes again? ;)
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Good idea, I'll try it on the way home. How do I switch modes again? ;)
Press and hold the mode switch on the front of the left controls.
I teach for the MSF so my bike will sit and cool off between demos. If I don't put it in ECO mode to lean out the mixture it's a sputtering mess trying to demo slow speed precise handling techniques. I think the bike is just a little too rich just off idle to run real well.
Once the bike is good and hot the issue seems to go away for the most part.
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Didn't we just have someone ask about this in the last month or so? A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Too bad mine went in the early 70's. Let me see if I can dig it up.....the thread, not my mind. That's long gone.
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Didn't we just have someone ask about this in the last month or so? A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Too bad mine went in the early 70's. Let me see if I can dig it up.....the thread, not my mind. That's long gone.
8) I'm missing more than a few brain cells myself! ...if only I could remember how THAT happened! DOH!
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OK, so there is a marked improvement running in ECO mode. Feels much better. There's still a bit of "gurgling" around 2k, but it's not jittering at parking lot speeds and feels a lot more "normal".
I will ride out the tank with the half-container of Techron in it, refill, pour in the rest...and see what happens from there. I'm also only idling at 1000, so I need to turn that up another 100rpm (although I don't think it's a problem where it is now, idles strong and steady).
So...the magic question: why did the normal mode get rich on me AND what's the fix?
My bike is still under warranty, but I'm REALLY hesitant to take it in to any dealership after my experiences at BMS. I'm afraid to bring it back there because I complained twice, and questioned if the work was actually done. There's another stealer about 20 miles away...but if this is something I can do myself, I'd rather do it and know that it's right.
Thoughts?
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what's the fix?
You might need to get your ECU re-flashed. See attached link for more info.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=12672.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=12672.0)
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I never did this mod to begin with...as it comes from the factory. Still think a re-flash would fix? That sounds like a pretty easy fix...
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Might want to adjust your throttle cables. The dealer may have "adjusted" them for you. possibly too tight on the throttle closed side.
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I rather 'doubt' this dealer did much of anything to this bike.
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OK, so there is a marked improvement running in ECO mode. Feels much better. There's still a bit of "gurgling" around 2k, but it's not jittering at parking lot speeds and feels a lot more "normal".
I will ride out the tank with the half-container of Techron
I have always like Techron
So...the magic question: why did the normal mode get rich on me AND what's the fix?
Can't answer that, but it is known that the C14 is a bit rich... the Guhl flash leans it out across the board.
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Might want to adjust your throttle cables. The dealer may have "adjusted" them for you. possibly too tight on the throttle closed side.
That wouldn't make it run rich or lean, however. Just makes more or less "slop" and at the worst tightening would start to keep the throttle open when it shouldn't be
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I had a similiar issue and after tinkering with this and that adjusted my throttle cables as per the manual....found my open cable with way more slack than suggested and adjusted it accordingly....definitely fixed my issue. One other thing that happened just before this issue started was my idle speed dropped from 1125 RPM to slightly less than 1000 RPM and I adjusted it up to 1200 RPM using the fast idle. After adjusting the cables I noticed my idle had returned to 1125 as before. Maybe not related but kind of interesting. When I put my bike in eco mode the idle picks up so maybe idle speed is part of the issue also? Now not a expert here by any means just thought I would share what helped my issue.