Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Skinny on June 04, 2013, 08:46:47 AM
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I searched and came up dry.
Where's the best place to tie down the c-14 when pulling it into a front wheel stay or wheel chock. I can't see how I can get a strap on the handlebar safely, must be somewhere upfront under cowling to do this.
Any ideas. Moving 525 miles and can't ride it there, logistical reasons.
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soft ties around the fork tubes
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Although I have not trailered the C14 yet, I have read a number of threads that using the handlebars is not the best thing to do. Just my two cents.
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soft ties around the fork tubes
+10
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Agree with others, NOT the handlebars. Use nylon web "soft ties" around the fork tubes just above the lower triple clamp. Tight space for big hands (I wrap and loop the ties from the top of the fairing in front of the handlebars and then reach up from underneath to pull the soft ties down) and you have to make sure that you are not pinching lines or wires, but after you have done it once it gets easy. I then use the ratchet straps and tighten both sides to about 1/2 compression of the forks so that the bike still has some give but won't bounce out of the strap hooks. The rear is simple with soft ties around arms of the tetralever. I just towed mine in a utility trailer for over 3,000 miles taking it on and off several times to ride with no issues. Good luck.
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I have always uswd canyon dancers. Never had an issue...
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Canyon dancers. Don't over tighten and you'll never have an issue. I see people over tighten to the point they pull the grips on bikes LoL
Guy at Kawasaki shop has delivered several brand news ones, according to him sometimes hundreds of miles. And he said he can't believe people frown upon canyon dancers on the handlebars. I asked him to get some pics but i haven't ran into the fella'.
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Now you just stop it right there Mister! Even suggesting using Canyon Dancers is going against forum lore and well accepted urban legends as well as commonly held ritual results! Why that is almost as bad as saying the KiPass incantation does NOT WORK!
But seriously, I do think the legend is way ahead of the facts here: there just are not many cases of broken handlebars on C-14's, and we really don't know the history in the few cases that have happened. Most of the broken stanchions I have seen have been on wrecks so nasty that it is not obvious that heap of debris was a C-14 in the recent past.
The only thing I know for a fact is that my C-14 was towed on a flat bed using Canyon Dancers because that was all the choices and the only way the truck operator had to hold the bike down. That was some years ago and the same handlebars are still on the bike although for all I know they may be on the verge of a brink. ;)
But I do think I would use another method if I had the time to prepare for a trailering. The lower triple clamp is the obvious place to grab the front end of the bike I think.
Brian
Canyon dancers. Don't over tighten and you'll never have an issue. I see people over tighten to the point they pull the grips on bikes LoL
Guy at Kawasaki shop has delivered several brand news ones, according to him sometimes hundreds of miles. And he said he can't believe people frown upon canyon dancers on the handlebars. I asked him to get some pics but i haven't ran into the fella'.
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All I'm gonna say is them stanchions are cast aluminum. And there is plenty of leverage. Too easy to plan ahead and use the soft ties.
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Canyon dancers. Don't over tighten and you'll never have an issue. I see people over tighten to the point they pull the grips on bikes LoL
Guy at Kawasaki shop has delivered several brand news ones, according to him sometimes hundreds of miles. And he said he can't believe people frown upon canyon dancers on the handlebars. I asked him to get some pics but i haven't ran into the fella'.
Only done it once with mine, but did use the Canyon Dancers with the cups. Only tight enough to keep it in the wheel chock. Strapped the rear down a little tighter using the soft ties.
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Yeah, the stealership hauler guy told me he uses canyon dancers on ALL bikes he hauls, never had an issue.
I'm seen a fat man into ABS brake mode hard and stop on a dime, thats more pressure on the handle bars than any tie down should employ to hold the bike upright on a trailer ;D
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I agree with you Chet, I was just pointing out that sometimes, even if it is extremely rare ( :o ::) ) forums have a tendancy to embellish a condition or event. To the best of my knowledge, there have either been very few or no events of Canyon Dancers snapping handlebars but the reaction in public areas is a bit extreme. That said, ALL handlebars are subject to damage if Canyon Dancers are used with a particular vengeance although of course tubular steel bars will bend while the aluminum ones like the C-14 uses tend to show any damage by snapping off.
So while I too would choose another method to tie down a C-14 if I had the ability to plan ahead and purchase items in advance of the trailering, I would use Canyon Dancers if / when that is the only choice and a bike has to be moved.
Besides, we all need to conserve our emotions for important things like KiPass....
:D
Brian
All I'm gonna say is them stanchions are cast aluminum. And there is plenty of leverage. Too easy to plan ahead and use the soft ties.
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I believe you misspoke and meant a 'gravitationally challenged person'. His significant other might be referred to as 'A gravitationally challenged gyno- American' just to be politically correct.
Of course you are correct- the bike can generate about 1 G or close so a 300 lb. person would easily put 150 lbs. of force on the bars just in braking and hitting a bump would greatly increase that. Plus the fact that the C-14 is a heavy bike and the general man- handling done to the bike is almost always done through the handlebars, especially the left one when putting it up on a side stand, trying to prevent a drop, etc. Handlebars simply have to be robust on all motorcycles or they would be failing pretty commonly.
There is a gentleman who had the left handlebar fail on a nearly brand new C-14 without any apparent shock or damage being done. That said, there is no way to know what happened in the bike's history including during manufacturing in Japan. It could also have been defective handlebars- who knows?
As I said, I would not start out or plan to bind a C-14 down by the handlebars but I would do so if I had to and have in the past, although only the one time.
Brian
Yeah, the stealership hauler guy told me he uses canyon dancers on ALL bikes he hauls, never had an issue.
I'm seen a fat man into ABS brake mode hard and stop on a dime, thats more pressure on the handle bars than any tie down should employ to hold the bike upright on a trailer ;D
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I believe you misspoke and meant a 'gravitationally challenged person'. His significant other might be referred to as 'A gravitationally challenged gyno- American' just to be politically correct.
Of course you are correct- the bike can generate about 1 G or close so a 300 lb. person would easily put 150 lbs. of force on the bars just in braking and hitting a bump would greatly increase that. Plus the fact that the C-14 is a heavy bike and the general man- handling done to the bike is almost always done through the handlebars, especially the left one when putting it up on a side stand, trying to prevent a drop, etc. Handlebars simply have to be robust on all motorcycles or they would be failing pretty commonly.
There is a gentleman who had the left handlebar fail on a nearly brand new C-14 without any apparent shock or damage being done. That said, there is no way to know what happened in the bike's history including during manufacturing in Japan. It could also have been defective handlebars- who knows?
As I said, I would not start out or plan to bind a C-14 down by the handlebars but I would do so if I had to and have in the past, although only the one time.
Brian
All I can say to the above is BINGO!!! This alone led me to the LSL bars. Irrational fear? Not to me. It only takes the smallest flaw in cast anything to lead to total failure. I'll take a bend over a fracture anyday. Hairfractures can be next to impossible to spot, right up to the point of a dangling bar.
Call me Cap'n Bar if ya want, someones gotta pickup the slack/void left behind ;D
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Hmmm, I guess I messed up. I trailered my bike from Mpls MN to Austin TX and back with soft ties on the ends of the bars, over 2400 miles. I just did a 1000 mile weekend of riding and never even noticed the bars were broken. I'll have to check again. ;)
I do agree tieing the triple clamp is a better option. Call me lucky or :censored: lucky or ...?
BTW, I hate trailering the bike (trailers are for boats), but there was snow on the ground in MN and it snowed twice while we were down there. Not much choice.
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Thanks for the tips folks. I would have liked to have ridden it there, but the time thing didn't work out.
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Well in that area we agree 100%- there won't be much, if any, warning before cast aluminum bars snap while steel tube bars will always bend. In fact, I don't know that I have ever seen tubular bars actually break though I've seen heaps of them mangled.
From a strictly design point of view, I am surprised any motorcycle manufacturer actually uses cast bars. On the other side of the coin, it is clear that there are so many bikes around with cast bars that they are not suffering any kind of unusual failures. <shrugs shoulders>
Then again, I feel the same way about some rather lightly cast aluminum footpegs some bikes use and yet they are not breaking all over the place either. Still, there are types I simply would not use even if stock to the bike I owned- those shell cast Buell pegs come to mind, I just could not ride with them.
But at least threads like this may provide information to others and help them make a decision about Canyon Dancers.
Brian
All I can say to the above is BINGO!!! This alone led me to the LSL bars. Irrational fear? Not to me. It only takes the smallest flaw in cast anything to lead to total failure. I'll take a bend over a fracture anyday. Hairfractures can be next to impossible to spot, right up to the point of a dangling bar.
Call me Cap'n Bar if ya want, someones gotta pickup the slack/void left behind ;D
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One can go with HONDA or BMW and away from Kawasaki and Buell if one doesn't want such worries ;D
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2 pages of how to tie down a C14! I could've had my canyon dancers on and off and been to the track and back 6 times (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol8.gif) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/avatars/lol8.gif.html)
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Shouldn't you be off talking with your imaginary female- dealer friends or rubbing your fob or something....
;D
Brian
2 pages of how to tie down a C14! I could've had my canyon dancers on and off and been to the track and back 6 times (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol8.gif) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/avatars/lol8.gif.html)
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2 pages of how to tie down a C14! I could've had my canyon dancers on and off and been to the track and back 6 times (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol8.gif) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/avatars/lol8.gif.html)
Track? You've had the 14 on the track, bags and all? ;D ;D I ride mine there, never, ever seen the inside of a trailer ;D ;D I can understand a trailer for logistical reasons, but drag a bike to a ride? Seems wrong. Tell ya what Steve, if you beg I will send ya an elk hoof if that will help ya out :)
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Shouldn't you be off talking with your imaginary female- dealer friends or rubbing your fob or something....
;D
Brian
Yes, and send hoof! I'll see her next time i go in for minor warranty work on this magical extended warranty :D
Track? You've had the 14 on the track, bags and all? ;D ;D I ride mine there, never, ever seen the inside of a trailer ;D ;D I can understand a trailer for logistical reasons, but drag a bike to a ride? Seems wrong. Tell ya what Steve, if you beg I will send ya an elk hoof if that will help ya out :)
I think I said I "could've" been at the track 6 times or such.... time representation.... not laming my bike to a track. In all seriousness for quite some time I've wanted to throw my C14 on the track to get pics with the bags in a turn but have always taken a different bike instead.
Although i still used the right solution, canyon dancers ;D
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/R1%20stuff/prepped.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/R1%20stuff/prepped.jpg.html)
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I searched and came up dry.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=12141.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=12141.0)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4375.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4375.0)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=414.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=414.0)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9551 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9551)
20 seconds
No guaranteeing any answers there, but NEVER the handlebars.
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http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=12141.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=12141.0)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4375.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4375.0)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=414.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=414.0)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9551 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9551)
20 seconds
No guaranteeing any answers there, but NEVER the handlebars.
Unless one is about the herd mentality of internet chatter/forums. My stealership ONLY uses the handlebars with canyon dancers to haul C14's (and any other bike) on their trailer, and according to them thousands of miles of C14 transport no drama =)
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/14/71/993/4142/ITEM/Canyon-Dancer-Bar-Harness.aspx (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/14/71/993/4142/ITEM/Canyon-Dancer-Bar-Harness.aspx)
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Unless one is about the herd mentality of internet chatter/forums. My stealership ONLY uses the handlebars with canyon dancers to haul C14's (and any other bike) on their trailer, and according to them thousands of miles of C14 transport no drama =)
My stealership delivered mine using ties to the head/tubes not the handlebars. Just going by what they did, what my friend (who is into this stuff) said, and what I have seen said on the forums... that using the handlebars is not the "correct" (or perhaps "best") way to tie down a heavy bike with cast aluminum bars.
I just checked both the owner's manual and service manual and neither had anything to say about it, surprisingly (unless I just couldn't find it and it is in there).
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Its all good anyway :) Plus, a fresh FOB battery and we'll not need to haul 'em
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Just to add a different sort of fuel to the fire, it is probably 'best' not to strap any motorcycle down using the handlebars whether they are aluminum or steel, cast or drawn and bent. Let's be honest, the triple clamp is far, far more rugged than the ends of the handlebars and much less likely to be damaged. So I think I will stick with my earlier posts but expand them to include all motorcycles: if there is time and resources available, I would use some part of the frame or major suspension part to anchor the bike to the floor of the trailer. If not, the bike must be towed and Canyon Dancers are what is available, I would use them on any motorcycle that I know of with a degree of reason which we should all use all the time anyway.
Or maybe just put a couple of really big rocks in the saddlebags and leave the bike on the sidestand. :o
Finally, no one has yet discussed whether the straps holding the bike down should be synthetic or not....
Brian
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Hemp Brian, hemp 8)
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I have Canyon dancers and although very convenient they are not my preferred choice.
Never use Canyon Dancers on C10 Heli Bars. You will strip out the ridges locking the shafts to the clamps rendering your Heli Bars useless. I know this because it happened to me.
On long distances like trips on the Auto Train which I do every year (850mi each way). Do not use Canyon Dancers They will make a mess of your Murphs grips or ruin foam grips. I know this too from experience.
I prefer strapping from the lower triple tree as suggested above and I go from the left fork towards the right and vice versa so that the straps cross each other.. This method prevents the straps from rubbing on the faring.
I also cable tie each hook so they cannot disconnect on a heavy bump or heavy braking.
On short trips and on ferry rides Canyon Dancers are convenient for sure but not the best way to secure the bike on long trips.
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And just to keep it going....
IF you improperly use canyon dancers, you can deform the grip material, if you have heated grips this can destory the wires inside the grips. I've personally seen extremely distorted grips due to canyon dancers improperly used.
That said, the lower triples, and some parts of the frame are rock solid. I also have used the rear handrails and top case mount. Works like a champ.
Barry
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The plastic rear handrails as a tie down point?
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The plastic rear handrails as a tie down point?
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The rear handrails are aluminum.
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The rear handrails are aluminum.
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Maybe but if so then the aluminum in those rails is made from plastic. A long- chain polymer specifically. Dark gray, almost black and amazingly tough butt they are plastic.
They could be used to tie the bike down but if you put a strap across them and it is on the tight side the paint will wear off. I carried my briefcase by using a bungee cord wound around those rails and not only did the paint wear through but the rails actually have shallow grooves worn into them.
Brian
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The rear handrails are aluminum.
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Max, you gone out to check? ;)
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The rear handrails are aluminum.
What year bike are you refering to? It will help those looking to help ;) ;D
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The rear handrails are aluminum.
Nope, they're plastic.
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Plastic to match the cracker jack box Kawasaki decals that are plastic too :D
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Maybe but if so then the aluminum in those rails is made from plastic.
Max, you gone out to check? ;)
What??? They are plastic??? Really???? OMG... I thought they were aluminum!!! Yikes!
Wait- I know why I thought they were aluminum, they *WERE* black painted aluminum on my previous bike, a ZRX. Sorry....
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Hard to believe it, but my C14 is going to be trailered down to Deals Gap "long story", and we are using canyon dancers. They are not tied down very tight because the front wheels are in chocks, and we will use soft ties for the back. My friend uses nothing but canyon dancers, and he never has had an issue, of course he probably puts them on correctly too. The next trip in 3 weeks will be all riding, no trailers this time.
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I bought my bike about 4.5 hours from my home, we backed it onto a low trailer , used a two inch strap on the rear wheel attaching it to the trailer about 16" high, then used canyon dancers front.
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Hard to believe it, but my C14 is going to be trailered down to Deals Gap "long story", and we are using canyon dancers. They are not tied down very tight because the front wheels are in chocks, and we will use soft ties for the back. My friend uses nothing but canyon dancers, and he never has had an issue, of course he probably puts them on correctly too. The next trip in 3 weeks will be all riding, no trailers this time.
you won't have an issue, even if you believe everything posted on the 'net ;)
canyon dancers rule (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/bigthumb.gif.html)
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Just an FYI, not all cast is brittle. I have not checked what grade the c-14 handlebars are made of but I have machined a lot of cast aluminum and much of it had similar properties to 6061T6. It would bend a long way before it would break.
I have used Canyon Dancers the three times I have trailered my Connie. The bike was completely stable each time but there was a bit of damage to my Murphs grips and made the grips drag enough that the throttle wouldn't close until I pulled them back out a bit.
I love the idea of using zip ties to be sure the hooks can't come off. I'll use that idea from now on!
Matt
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Just an FYI, not all cast is brittle. I have not checked what grade the c-14 handlebars are made of but I have machined a lot of cast aluminum and much of it had similar properties to 6061T6. It would bend a long way before it would break.
I have used Canyon Dancers the three times I have trailered my Connie. The bike was completely stable each time but there was a bit of damage to my Murphs grips and made the grips drag enough that the throttle wouldn't close until I pulled them back out a bit.
I love the idea of using zip ties to be sure the hooks can't come off. I'll use that idea from now on!
Matt
I've used zip ties. They work great. I've also run the soft ties through the ring on the tie downs before looping them over the hook. That way they can't slip off.
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zip ties even hold fairings together successfully ;)
(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/183/p1010009w.jpg)
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I agree with you but specifically comparing these two types of handlebar, cast aluminum and drawn steel tubing, the cast versions are brittle by comparison. The ductility of the tubular bars comes both from the material as well as the shape; the right type of aluminum, used as tubing, would also bend far more than the die cast stanchions that we have on our C-14's. Put another way, most of us have seen bent tubular steel handlebars but I betcha' none of us will ever see a bent C-14 handlebar set (stock bars).
Brian
Just an FYI, not all cast is brittle. I have not checked what grade the c-14 handlebars are made of but I have machined a lot of cast aluminum and much of it had similar properties to 6061T6. It would bend a long way before it would break.
I have used Canyon Dancers the three times I have trailered my Connie. The bike was completely stable each time but there was a bit of damage to my Murphs grips and made the grips drag enough that the throttle wouldn't close until I pulled them back out a bit.
I love the idea of using zip ties to be sure the hooks can't come off. I'll use that idea from now on!
Matt
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Bike did pretty well being hauled down there, the canyon dancers were used on the way down and they did moosh my grips a bit. I fixed them no problem, but it seemed like my forks or even bars may have been tweaked a bit. Is that possible, how can I check other than eyeballing them? Bars now shake some when I let go of them, they did not do that before. :( I also got a nasty gouge on my swing arm from a strap buckle......I am pissed and my bike will "NEVER" see a trailer ever again. But I did have a great time down there with the Ohioriders group, there are some seriously talented and amazing riders in that group. Also one member has a new Ducati Panigale..........incredible.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Ducati_1199_Panigale_S_right.JPG)
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I did a couple track days this past weekend at Grattan. It was loaded with high end bikes like the panigales. Many other Ducs as well quite a few BMW 1000RRs and a very cool looking Buell but didn't see what model it was.
One guy on a Duc had unreal acceleration coming onto the straight. We'd be right together coming off that last corner and he would just pull me by 50 lengths by the end of the straight. I'd make it up in the next two corners but it was amazing watching him pull away as soon as he got the bike upright. I was even pinned all the way through the corner coming onto the straight and he just left me.
Matt
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I did a couple track days this past weekend at Grattan. It was loaded with high end bikes like the panigales. Many other Ducs as well quite a few BMW 1000RRs and a very cool looking Buell but didn't see what model it was.
One guy on a Duc had unreal acceleration coming onto the straight. We'd be right together coming off that last corner and he would just pull me by 50 lengths by the end of the straight. I'd make it up in the next two corners but it was amazing watching him pull away as soon as he got the bike upright. I was even pinned all the way through the corner coming onto the straight and he just left me.
Matt
The fact that you caught him in the turns boggles the mind...
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Yes, something seems wrong here. I don't know how you could have it pinned all the way through the corner either, unless you were in too high of a gear. Also, you must be a very good rider and he must really suck in the corners for you to be able to corner faster than him. It seems entirely backwards.
It's kind of like that old 70's tv show Chips. They were riding Kawa KZ1000's, which I also rode back then. During the chase scenes, they'd always catch up in the corners and lose ground on the straights. Exactly the opposite of what would happen in real life.
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I guess I didn't mention I was on my '03 Honda CBR600 at the track.
Turn 10 is a very slow right hander. I tend to overpower the rear in 2nd gear coming off 10 so I use 3rd. Turns 11 and 12 are a right/left kink more than full corners. Turn 12 leads you onto the straight. Still in 3rd from coming off 10, as soon as I hit the apex of 11 I hit WOT. In the transition between 11 and 12 I got to 4th. I could carry 3rd a little further but I don't like shifting mid corner on lefts which I would have to do as I'd be redlined before I got on the straight. When I shift to 4th is when he would start pulling away from me.
I am not that great of a rider but there were a few corners that he really slowed way down for. Not sure my Connie would have made much difference either as I feel my 600 and my Connie are pretty equal on acceleration up to about 120mph then the 600 falls off a bit.
Matt