Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: sf bay rider on May 23, 2013, 09:40:59 PM
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I finally wore out my Perelli ST Angels after 11.6K miles. The Shinko Verge 011 that have been sitting on the shelf for about two years. Have been installed. After a few hundred miles run in. They handle quite well. With two exceptions. It takes about three or four miles. Before they feel warmed up and have a solid well gripped feeling on the road. The Verge 011, feels a lot stiffer when riding. The two exceptions aforementioned are purely subjective on my part. Handling, cornering and stopping, no issues.
As with all the previous tire sets. Tires are inflated to 45psi fore and aft. I invite fellow members of this forum to comment. Share any thoughts and or experiences they have encountered with the Shinko Verge 011 tire.
I feel sufficiently impressed with the quality and price of this tire set. That I have ordered a replacement set of Shinko Verge 011 tires.
More as things develop.
Jack
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Probably a good tire, but I'd let a little air out of them.
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I've run three sets of Verges and I like their handling and grip as well or better than any of the many ST tires I have tried, including Mich. Dunlop, Conti, Avon and Parelli. I have gotten the best mileage out of them also. They are heavy and stiff and I am not surprised you get a harsh ride at 45 psi. I run 39 front and 42 rear and they do not feel harsh to me. Also, I have never noticed a long warm up time.
My only two complaints about the Verge is that the stiff carcass makes them the hardest tires to mount and dismount and the tread grooves do not run through the center so it is hard to judge when they will be worn out.
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I can't argue their long life but if you want performance as a priority use a better tire
shinkos are known for being hard, if yours has sat on a shelf two years in the garage I'd be extra cautious with it, especially in cold climates
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I live in the San Francisco bay area. Ride year round and have used 45 psi in all my tire sets without ill effect.
I do like the Shinko Verge 011, so far. Especially, the handling properties. No lane drift either and that is a big plus.
Jack
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I live in the San Francisco bay area. Ride year round and have used 45 psi in all my tire sets without ill effect.
I do like the Shinko Verge 011, so far. Especially, the handling properties. No lane drift either and that is a big plus.
Jack
Well, you said it takes about three or four miles before they feel warmed up and feel a lot stiffer when riding. Those are what I consider ill effects, which I don't have on mine at lower psi. But it sounds like you get better mileage than me so maybe it is a fair trade-off.
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I got over 8,000 miles out of the front stock Stones and over 10,000 miles out of the stock rear Stones. I run 42 psi. I would rather sacrifice a very tiny amount of mileage and have some grip, before 4 miles by running what is recommended. I also believe 45 is above the max pressure recommended by the manufacturer for that tire. I see nothing but problems. I would rather be safe. Besides, in less than a half a mile from my house, I can get to the edge of a tire, so there are curves nearby and I would prefer to be able to round them without mishap.
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As I, have stated in the original post. The comments are subjective in nature. It was getting use to the handling characteristics of the new Shinko Verge 011. This is the first time using this brand. The tire set handles exceptionally well after 450 miles.
Zero lane drift, even when approaching 90mph on the interstate corners along my commute route. I remain quite impressed the tire handling and price point. Now I, will try to see how many miles this tire set will go. Bearing in mind that 85% of the mileage will be interstate and that I am not and aggressive rider.
More as things develop,
Jack
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I put 16k on the 1st 011 Verge front tire that I ran on my C10 & had 6-7K on the 2nd one when I sold my C10 last summer & have nothing but positive comments for both of them! Never noticed any warm up issues, stuck like glue right from the get-go! Every bit the equal to the numerous premium brands that I also ran up front!
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I found the Full Bore tires to be awesome, also. 8)
http://www.americanmototire.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33_1043_1044&products_id=6017 (http://www.americanmototire.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33_1043_1044&products_id=6017)
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I do hope the Shinko Verge 011 will indeed go 10K miles or more. A note, if Shinko is monitoring this forum. Perhaps they would consider developing a tire spec that would go a minimum of 15K miles. With a moderate price point. That indeed would catch my interest to purchase a tire that would last that long. ;D
The best prices I've seen for Verge 011 has been about $205-$235 for a new set, as of this entry. My replacement set was $215.00 coming for MotoSport.com
Jack
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As I, have stated in the original post. The comments are suggestive in nature. It was getting use to the handling characteristics of the new Shinko Verge 011. This is the first time using this brand. The tire set handles exceptionally well after 450 miles.
Zero lane drift, even when approaching 90mph on the interstate corners along my commute route. I remain quite impressed the tire handling and price point. Now I, will try to see how many miles this tire set will go. Bearing in mind that 85% of the mileage will be interstate and that I am not and aggressive rider.
More as things develop,
Jack
Now that there is a darn shame with the insanely awesome roads you have out there. :(
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I got 12k miles out of my Shinko 011 Verge front tire on my C10...and, it wasn't worn out yet! I changed wheels, so the Verge went with the older wheel. I was amazed by how it handled...even on roads with standing water in the "troughs" created by the 4-wheeler traffic...think I ran 38 or 39 psi and it was great.
And, as Pokey said...it is a shame about your commute...but, at least it's a motorcycle commute! ;D
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As I, have stated in the original post. The comments are suggestive in nature. It was getting use to the handling characteristics of the new Shinko Verge 011. This is the first time using this brand. The tire set handles exceptionally well after 450 miles.
Zero lane drift, even when approaching 90mph on the interstate corners along my commute route. I remain quite impressed the tire handling and price point. Now I, will try to see how many miles this tire set will go. Bearing in mind that 85% of the mileage will be interstate and that I am not and aggressive rider.
More as things develop,
Jack
I'm not dissing the tire, just the wisdom of running more pressure than is recommended for the tire. I believe you are creating an unsafe condition.
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Can't comment on that tire but have used 009s. The Connie likes 42 psi. On other bikes the mftr recommended 42 but most ran like 34-36 psi for more traction. Idid that too and lowered it to high 20s on track days. But he Connie is different and I am comfortable at 40-42. Higher than 44 and I feel it doesn't handle "right"
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Can't comment on that tire but have used 009s. The Connie likes 42 psi. On other bikes the mftr recommended 42 but most ran like 34-36 psi for more traction. Idid that too and lowered it to high 20s on track days. But he Connie is different and I am comfortable at 40-42. Higher than 44 and I feel it doesn't handle "right"
Yup......anything more than 42 makes no sense, I am running 40 pretty consistently these days.
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As for 45psi for the tires. It works for me and may not feel right for other riders. I respect that fact and will not dispute, that I should not exceed 42psi. Again, it works for me. Thank you for your concern.
As for not being an aggressive rider. I've been down once and sustained sufficient injuries. In turn, my riding style is more conservative these days. I still do back roads, twisties, sweeps and yes, the highways. Albeit, at the suggested speed for
any given turn. Although I, still push the limits at times. ::)
Jack
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I would look at the sidewall to see what the max pressure for the tire is. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that it is 42. If you are higher that that you are asking for trouble. I also believe you are taking a tire known for not having the best performance and making it worse. I'm not saying it is a horrible tire, I am just saying that it doesn't perform as well as others. You may not ride aggressively, but in a panic situation you will want all the traction you can get. You won't have that with the tire pumped up too hard.
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I would also check the date code on that sidewall. 2 years on the shelf and who knows how long it sat before you got it.
A four to five year old tire is normally dry rotted or at the very least performance has been severely reduced.
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As for 45psi for the tires. It works for me and may not feel right for other riders. I respect that fact and will not dispute, that I should not exceed 42psi. Again, it works for me. Thank you for your concern.
As for not being an aggressive rider. I've been down once and sustained sufficient injuries. In turn, my riding style is more conservative these days. I still do back roads, twisties, sweeps and yes, the highways. Albeit, at the suggested speed for
any given turn. Although I, still push the limits at times. ::)
Jack
We are looking out for you concerning the tire pressure, so nobody is going to apologize for that. Not even Goldwings run those kinds of pressures, and all that air in there makes the ride more rough and you for sure have less traction......trust me on that. You can only push luck so far for so long, luck can turn bad when you least expect it. And since you have already been down, yet another reason to air down a bit. Personally I wouldnt be running those tires in the first place, much better all around tires available for the C14 and those tires are not new to begin with. Tires do not typically sit on shelves for very long, they do harden up and start to break down. You never want to skimp on brakes nor tires......NEVER.
Checkout the 3rd paragraph under first question & answer. ;)
http://www.shinkotireusa.com/faq.php (http://www.shinkotireusa.com/faq.php)
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PH14, thank you for your concern. It's a touching sentiment. Max psi for the Verge 011 is 42psi and so stamped on the sidewall
of the tire. As for panic stops. I avoid them, by training and practice. Seeking out professional training from former LEO's who were motor school instructors. Has been instrumental in my skill development as a rider. In turn, it has made me a safer rider.
I ride within my skill level, ever mindful of the fact. To practice what was learned, to the point, it becomes an automatic reaction
to perform a controlled stop. As for running the tires at 45psi. Stopping has never been an issue at that pressure for any of the tires brands. Bridgestone, Perelli or Shinko. Again, thanks for your concern.
Pokey, thank you for you concern as well. I've lowered the pressure to 42 psi cold and will try it there. Sage advise well received and accepted as such, too.
The date codes on the Shinko's show they were manufactured the second week of May, 2011
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:thumbs:
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I'm not dissing the tire, just the wisdom of running more pressure than is recommended for the tire. I believe you are creating an unsafe condition.
I don't know about unsafe but it must ride like a Conestoga wagon...
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Jim, you're a hoot! Actually, the ride is quite smooth and counter steering has improved, too. Again, all subjective on my part.
To all who have responded thus far. I would like to thank you for your concern and input, too.
Jack
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I don't know about unsafe but it must ride like a Conestoga wagon...
He's not driving a Goldwing he's on a Connie! ;D I'm thinking more like a Buckboard, they were zippy!
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I did have a Goldwing. It had a nice ride to it. A bit of a two wheel Conestoga wagon. A tad more fun, though.
Now I, have a 2010 Voyager ABS. That is a bit more like a two wheel Buckboard. With a nice rumble.
The Connie, agile, zippy and just plain fun! I like to thing of it as my "Radio Flyer" with two wheels. Albeit, with
a new set of Shinko shoes.
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Just before I removed the stock stones, I pumped the front up to 45PSI, and it made that tire feel much better (for the 3 days it stayed on the wheel). There may be something to what SF is saying, but I wouldn't run that pressure for long either. Instead, I chose to buy better tires.
As for buying a new set and setting them on the shelves, I don't see any benefit in that, especially when you just installed a new set. Rubber will harden just sitting on a shelf, and that equates to a lower coefficient of friction (less grip / less traction). Since tires are readily available, why not wait until you're down on rubber and close to needing them? I've had replacement tires sitting in the shop for months before, but only because the current set didn't wear out as fast as I thought they would. Just more food for thought. ;)
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As for panic stops. I avoid them, by training and practice. Seeking out professional training from former LEO's who were motor school instructors. Has been instrumental in my skill development as a rider. In turn, it has made me a safer rider.
I ride within my skill level, ever mindful of the fact. To practice what was learned, to the point, it becomes an automatic reaction
to perform a controlled stop. As for running the tires at 45psi. Stopping has never been an issue at that pressure for any of the tires brands. Bridgestone, Perelli or Shinko. Again, thanks for your concern.
Anyone who says he or she avoids panic stops simply hasn't encountered the need. Even when disciplined to ride defensively in an effort to avoid a situation that would be a panic stop for many, still will eventually run into a situation where you will need to stop quickly, and in a manner a tire pumped past the maximum PSI won't handle. Traction is like a dollar bill, you only have so much. Some is used for acceleration, cornering or braking. Unfortunately when you exceed the max PSI you no longer have a dollar bill, you have maybe 75 cents at best.
I worked with cops for years, and even was involved with a dealership who did the service for police bikes. I rode their bike regularly and rode with them often. I live near where Larry Grodsky did and he was an acquaintance through some of the local cops here, he wouldn't, and they wouldn't advocate what you are doing. By the way, Larry was an exceptional rider, he wrote safety articles for Rider magazine. He was one of the best, and he died in a motorcycle accident. Don't think you can out ride the odds as well.
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C1xRider, I acknowledge what your saying, regarding a set of tires on the shelf. I prefer to keep a set as back up. If the tires go over three years of age. Then I, simply sell them and replace them. A practice that I, have had for several years. It has not failed me yet. :)
PH14, I'm running my tire pressure @ 42psi cold, now. Which I, acknowledged a few entries back. As for riding and it's inherent dangers. You can't foresee, prepare for or guard against. Every conceivable scenario or situation whilst atop your mount. In turn I, acknowledge what your saying regarding stopping and respect that fact. Alas, you don't know my level of training or experience as a rider. To state what I, will or will not do in a given situation. I have made several mistakes as a rider and have learned from all of them, some painfully so. Cumulatively I, feel I'm a safe rider, but by no means an expert rider. I do consider myself a humble student here at all times. Because, there are so many learned people here in this forum. For that I am very thankful indeed. Including yourself.
One lesson I, learned from a training officer. That I will share with all here. "Ride like your paranoid and chances are you will live to ride another day" That single lesson has served me well. As I, hope it will serve you, too.
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C1xRider, I acknowledge what your saying, regarding a set of tires on the shelf. I prefer to keep a set as back up. If the tires go over three years of age. Then I, simply sell them and replace them. A practice that I, have had for several years. It has not failed me yet. :)
I understand keeping a backup set of tires, I do that myself. However, my back up set are used ones, with enough life left in them that they will get me by until new ones arrive in the mail. I have a Angel for the front, and a rear stock stone. Both have enough tread to get me by, if I somehow manage to destroy a tire, and can't get a new one right away. Since suppliers ship within a couple of days, I just don't see any good reason to sit on new tires for years. However, to each their own. :)
Personally, selling several year old new tires, or even putting 3 or 4 year old tires on my bike, is not for me. Besides that, you probably can't get back what you paid for the new ones 3 or 4 years later, while a used one with a little tread left on it, is already paid for.
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C1xRider, I acknowledge what your saying, regarding a set of tires on the shelf. I prefer to keep a set as back up. If the tires go over three years of age. Then I, simply sell them and replace them. A practice that I, have had for several years. It has not failed me yet. :)
PH14, I'm running my tire pressure @ 42psi cold, now. Which I, acknowledged a few entries back. As for riding and it's inherent dangers. You can't foresee, prepare for or guard against. Every conceivable scenario or situation whilst atop your mount. In turn I, acknowledge what your saying regarding stopping and respect that fact. Alas, you don't know my level of training or experience as a rider. To state what I, will or will not do in a given situation. I have made several mistakes as a rider and have learned from all of them, some painfully so. Cumulatively I, feel I'm a safe rider, but by no means an expert rider. I do consider myself a humble student here at all times. Because, there are so many learned people here in this forum. For that I am very thankful indeed. Including yourself.
One lesson I, learned from a training officer. That I will share with all here. "Ride like your paranoid and chances are you will live to ride another day" That single lesson has served me well. As I, hope it will serve you, too.
I ride the same way, so did Larry. Of course he, along with other "safe" riders I have known, police officers and racers such as Scott Russell have said, as soon as you think you are a safe rider and you are no longer afraid of the bike, you should sell it. Remain afraid, and understand that you cannot predict everything. I'm glad you have reduced the pressure.
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And this from a guy who's ancestors probably rode in Conestoga wagons all the way from the east coast to.... Virginia! Say, they really must ride rough....
Brian
I don't know about unsafe but it must ride like a Conestoga wagon...
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And this from a guy who's ancestors probably rode in Conestoga wagons all the way from the east coast to.... Virginia! Say, they really must ride rough....
Brian
My ancestors came over on the SS United States and sailing vessels from England, Brian. No Conestoga wagons for us.. ;)