Kawasaki Concours Forum
Riding => It's not a Concours - other Bikes => Topic started by: Rhino on May 07, 2013, 02:48:36 PM
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Twice now I've had adventure rides spoiled by a flat tire. Once on my DR and once on my son's KLR. On the street bikes I just put a gummy worm in and ride on. Not so easy with a tube. Soooo...
I'm thinking of going tubeless on my Suzuki DR650 by using this method: http://cyb.smugmug.com/gallery/7250813_ZxQA5# (http://cyb.smugmug.com/gallery/7250813_ZxQA5#)!i=465979444&k=BjwM3St
Has anyone done this? If so did you get tubeless specific tires? Will it work with my tube type Bridgestone Trail Wings?
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If your tire is marked as a tube type you must run tubes. Tube type tires have a different type bead than tubeless.
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If your tire is marked as a tube type you must run tubes. Tube type tires have a different type bead than tubeless.
Is this from experience or from reading?
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Why? Going tubeless means you can't air down near as much for the times you need a wider traction patch. Get a set of the Motion Pro Bead Breaker irons, watch a few Youtube vids, practice at home. Once you have the hang of it things are fairly easy on the trail. Carry a patch kit and spare front tube (will work in the rear if needed). I carry a manual tire pump to conserve space. Also, strongly consider rim locks to help prevent sheared tube stems and if needed you can still ride it out without air. At a minimum a rear rim lock.
If you should bash a rim it may become unsealable if tubless, therefore, tubes are king. If you wanna go a safe route, look at Moose Racing for their system.
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Why? Going tubeless means you can't air down near as much for the times you need a wider traction patch. Get a set of the Motion Pro Bead Breaker irons, watch a few Youtube vids, practice at home. Once you have the hang of it things are fairly easy on the trail. Carry a patch kit and spare front tube (will work in the rear if needed). I carry a manual tire pump to conserve space. Also, strongly consider rim locks to help prevent sheared tube stems and if needed you can still ride it out without air. At a minimum a rear rim lock.
If you should bash a rim it may become unsealable if tubless, therefore, tubes are king. If you wanna go a safe route, look at Moose Racing for their system.
Far easier to install a gummy worm then pull the wheel and patch in the field. Without a center stand, it is a PITA to remove the wheel. That's the why.
I have never aired down. When off pavement I am mostly on fire roads and easy trails. I don't do single tracks. The main reason I ride the DR is to be able to do unpaved passes here in Colorado. And to be able to find camp sites off the main roads. Should I try airing down? That would be a good reason to stay with the tubes.
Second I can still carry a tube if all else fails. Simply remove the valve stem and install tube.
My 36hp DR650 (less at high altitude) had never spun a tire so I didn't think I needed rim locks.
Just wondering if anyone else on the forum has done it.
PS: Moose racing system sez not for the street.
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http://permasealtire.com/applications.html (http://permasealtire.com/applications.html)
Based on a couple of Canadians who are bonafide world travelers on 2 wheels this stuff is the cats meow.
What I do know is it is far easier to fix a flat tube than it is to straighten out a taco'ed rim, although I hear rocks are plentifull 'round yer parts ;)
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That is actually a pretty darn cool idea, especially if it works. 8)
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http://permasealtire.com/applications.html (http://permasealtire.com/applications.html)
Based on a couple of Canadians who are bonafide world travelers on 2 wheels this stuff is the cats meow.
What I do know is it is far easier to fix a flat tube than it is to straighten out a taco'ed rim, although I hear rocks are plentifull 'round yer parts ;)
Interesting. I wonder how it compares to Ride-On or Slime. Can't find anything on their site about tubes. Ride-on sez they are less effective in a tube due to the tube tearing. This is what happened on my son's KLR. A nail went in, tire went flat and the nail tore the inside of the tube. But tubeless and this stuff might be the way to go.
If I go tubeless, assuming Cholla is correct and I need to get tubeless specific tires, I'm looking at theses: http://www.bikebandit.com/kenda-k761-dual-sport-tire (http://www.bikebandit.com/kenda-k761-dual-sport-tire)
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Not trying to be a wise guy, but you do not have to remove a wheel from the bike to patch a tube.
The tube type tires are not as hard to break the beads. With no air in it, ride the bike a short distance and the bead is loose. Pull one side of the bead loose, reach in with your fingers and liberate the tube. You do not even have to unscrew the valves stem from the rim. Glue up the patch, carefully reinsert the tube. Air it up 1/2 way with the bead still loose, and check for twists and pinches. deflate and reset the tire bead. Air it up and go. As long as the tire does not rotate on the rim, you do not even have to re-balance.
Good Luck
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Balance a knobby? ;) FWIW, even w/o a centerstand I'd take the wheel off, prop the bike on something or lay her on the side. Speaking for me, I have gotten good at picking the pig up ;D
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Well I went and did the tubeectomy. Used this exact method to seal the rim: http://cyb.smugmug.com/gallery/7250813_ZxQA5# (http://cyb.smugmug.com/gallery/7250813_ZxQA5#)!i=465979444&k=BjwM3S and mounted Kenda K761 Tubeless tires. Only been 24 hours and about 10 miles test ride but so far so good. Will be camping and some back country riding the first week of June. We'll see how they do then.
(http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac177/sreinschmidt/IMG_20130515_112755_539_zps350f48ce.jpg)
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Good luck!! I headed to do the COBDR the 7th of June, sure hope the snow is gone ;D
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Good luck!! I headed to do the COBDR the 7th of June, sure hope the snow is gone ;D
Excellent! I've done some of that route. COBDR includes CRKK14 (page 68 of the Colorado Gazetteer). I've done that route all the way between North Pass and Lake City. In fact I will be camping just south of 114 the week of June 7 between Saguache and North Pass (Hat Springs on page 69) about 10 miles east of that route. I'll be out and about in that area. If you see a yellow DR650 with a white IMS tank be sure to wave or stop and say hi.
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Nice.....looking forward to hopefully good feedback. :thumbs:
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Excellent! I've done some of that route. COBDR includes CRKK14 (page 68 of the Colorado Gazetteer). I've done that route all the way between North Pass and Lake City. In fact I will be camping just south of 114 the week of June 7 between Saguache and North Pass (Hat Springs on page 69) about 10 miles east of that route. I'll be out and about in that area. If you see a yellow DR650 with a white IMS tank be sure to wave or stop and say hi.
We will be on a 1200GSA, 2 F800GSs, white and gold, and a KTM990. Go do some scouting for us, see if the trails are clear ;D Are plan is maximum of 4 days to do the route.
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We will be on a 1200GSA, 2 F800GSs, white and gold, and a KTM990. Go do some scouting for us, see if the trails are clear ;D Are plan is maximum of 4 days to do the route.
I will be getting to camp on the 3rd or 4th and do expect to do CR KK14 from 114 to at least Cathedral. I've never done Cathedral to Powderhorn and want to give that a try. Would be happy to send you a text or email from the smart phone. There's no connection at the camp but out on 114 there is. I had no problem on KK14 and I am a severe amateur so I expect you will not find that part of the route challenging.
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.....looking forward to hopefully good feedback. :thumbs:
Me too. I'm working on getting a KTM LC4 SuperMoto road-ready. Haven't gotten to tires yet, but since it has spoked wheels, I'm assuming it has inner tubes. Rather not mess around with tubes if I don't have to.
Keep us posted. Thanks
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Rode some more this morning. Now have about 50 miles on the new tubeless tires and air pressure is holding steady. Nothing to do with tubeless but the Kenda tires are way more rounded then the half worn Bridgestone Trail Wings and the bike wants to fall into the turns. I have to noticeably push on the opposite bar to get the bike back upright. I expect this to diminish a bit as the Kenda's get a flat spot worn in.
Look for some off road feed back and pics around June 11.
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Now you can balance your tire with dyna-beads 8)
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Now you can balance your tire with dyna-beads 8)
No need. Marc Parnes balancer works fine.
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Like they say in the oilfield, "O" Rings and engineers.........................
Good luck with it.
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Got back from a 5 day trip and both front and rear were down on pressure. The rear was down 5 psi and it turns out one of the spokes has a tiny leak. Resealing it today. The front was completely out of air and the valve stem is the cause. The front rim is narrow and very much curved. I used MC Enterprise valve stem and although they are very high quality, I think they are unsuitable for this application as they go in from the outside and just can't handle the curve. Trying again with a different design stem along with some goop. My first real outing will be the week after next and will be riding from a base camp. I plan to bring the original Bridgestone Trail Wings with tubes as a back up.
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Just got back from a week of camping and put about 300 miles of off road on the DR. Apparently I got all the rim leaks and it is now holding air well. Now I'm just carrying sticky ropes and some CO2. Haven't gotten a flat yet so no real world test on fixing it in the field. I also have some Honda 4 wheelers and got a flat on one of those. Took about 2 minutes to fix with sticky rope and CO2 out in the middle of nowhere. I'm hoping if I get a flat on the DR I will have a similar experience fixing it.
Next time I do this (maybe on my son's KLR) I plan to try it a little different. I want to try to take a 1" piece of PVC pipe with one end capped and drilled for an air chuck and the other shaped to the inside of the rim with a neoprene gasket. The idea would be to put the sealant around the end of the spoke and then pressurize to force the sealant into any gaps.
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Ok I now admit this was a failure in spite of 2 successful adventure rides on the tubeless tires. I'm tired of playing whack a mole on the slow leaks. The tubes are back in. Now I want to know if anyone has been successful pre-sliming the tubes? Has anyone done this, gotten a nail and been able to pull the nail and ride on?
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Now you can balance your tire with dyna-beads 8)
BTW: I've been taking the tires off and on so often now I have dispensed with balancing them on the DR-650. I haven't noticed any difference up to 80 mph.
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!!! It was worth the effort for sure and kudos for sharing, I sure hope others hear and follow your lead...
Slime works well, the only issue is tire changes, pulling the stem and getting the green goo kinda sucks, but it is good insurance against a pinch flat on the trail, especially if you run lower pressures, but methinks you run close to what is on the tire due to those China anchored rocks ;) In the EXC I run the thickest tube I can find and they are pre slimed, so far no leakage, even when I was running 7ish pounds in the front. I've been fortunate on punctures so I couldn't say how well the slime would hold up.
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but methinks you run close to what is on the tire due to those China anchored rocks
With the tubes back in I have the Bridgestone Trail Wings back on. The Kenda's were good on the pavement and just ok on the dirt. I like the Trail Wings much better in the dirt. I think I'll go ahead and slime the tubes and see how that works.
I also broke my left rack with those heavy ammo cans on it. Thank God I brought a ratchet strap to keep things together and save the ride. Since I have to buy new racks anyway, I'm looking at HT aluminum panniers that come with HT racks. The ammo cans weigh 20 lbs each and the HT panniers of the same size weigh 9 1/2 lbs. Would save 21 lbs. I think I'll pull the trigger on those before next years rides.
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Sure wish I had a way to cut 21 pounds!!!!! I reckon I could work a little harder on my diet :) Anyone interested in a weight off challenge? I'm maintaining 212 steady since I dropped some 38 pounds after my back surgery, my goal is 186. Winners are responsible for setting up the ride route, losers have the horrible task of riding to the start point and riding the route with the winner... And of course, the biggest loser is the winner ;D ;D ;D
I think I will start a thread in Open, maybe establish regions for the challenges as most folks cant do the coast to coast. Everyone will have the option of which region to participate in. To keep things sane it should be several months, something like 9 months so we have this fall, winter, and spring to shed the pounds. Ride early to mid summer.
Feedback?